Trade/Free Agency Thread 2023-24, part 10 and Counting . . .

[hugepatsfan]

It's a very educated guess.

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Brogdon can be traded at any time. Celtics would move Brogdon in a heartbeat if it improved the team. Just to refresh everyone's memory, the Clippers offered Morris, Coffey and the 30th pick in the draft in the failed three way trade between Bos/Was/LAC.

I'm not the biggest Brogdon fan by far but I wouldn't trade him for Morris, Coffey and the 30th pick in the draft.

Brogdon is here to stay for a while is my guess.

Well the salary filler was going to Washington. It would've been porzingus and the pick to Boston. With us retaining smart. So the real question to ask yourself is would you rather have Smart and 1 late pick or brogdon and 2 1sts (one of which already became Walsh and a bunch of 2nds)?

We weren't keeping the pick (#30 from LAC). It was going to be:

WAS trades Porzingis for #30, Marcus Morris, Gallinari, other small filler from LAC
BOS trades: Brogdon, Gallinari for Porzingis
LAC trades, Morris, small filler, #30 for Brogdon

Then it sends up as:

MEM trades: Tyus Jones, #25, '24 GSW 1st
WAS trades: Porzingis for Jones, Gallinari, Muscala
BOS trades: Smart, Gallinari, Muscala, #35 for Porzingis, #25, '24 GSW 1st

So the question is whether you would have:

Smart / #35
or

Brogdon / Muscala / #25 / '24 GSW 1st


Brad and the FO clearly preferred keeping Smart otherwise the Brogdon deal wouldn't have "fell through" before they pivoted. But I actually prefer the 2nd if Brogdon is healthy for the playoffs. Big IF though.

[hugepatsfan]

Broader thoughts on Brogdon trade...

I think Brad has been pretty transparent and I believe him. The 3-headed monster at guard of Smart/White/Brogdon was redundant. It made sense to move one for front court health.

I had White as the "safe" one of the 3. His style fits great, he's reliable health wise, not past his prime, etc. So it was a question of Brogdon or Smart. They seemingly preferred moving Brogdon, but were willing to pivot to Smart as well.

Now that we've traded Smart, I don't see the need to move Brogdon. The factors that had them willing to move Brogdon over Smart to begin with still all exist. Health/reliability for sure was one of those factors. Possible chemistry issues with team/coach might be a factor to some degree as well, but that's speculation. So it'd be foolish for me to say NO CHANCE of moving Brogdon. But with Smart gone, I think it's something they no longer ACTIVELY seek out doing.

[Celts17Pride]

It's a very educated guess.

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Brogdon can be traded at any time. Celtics would move Brogdon in a heartbeat if it improved the team. Just to refresh everyone's memory, the Clippers offered Morris, Coffey and the 30th pick in the draft in the failed three way trade between Bos/Was/LAC.

I'm not the biggest Brogdon fan by far but I wouldn't trade him for Morris, Coffey and the 30th pick in the draft.

Brogdon is here to stay for a while is my guess.

Well the salary filler was going to Washington. It would've been porzingus and the pick to Boston. With us retaining smart. So the real question to ask yourself is would you rather have Smart and 1 late pick or brogdon and 2 1sts (one of which already became Walsh and a bunch of 2nds)?

The point is the LAC were not offering much for Brogdon.

[Curmudgeon]

Depends on the offer.

[itrsteve]

Brad is not like Danny Ainge.

Ainge will say something then do something different from what he said.

Brad is not like that.

He told smart he wouldn’t be traded either.
Smart himself said that; but that didn’t last long

I don't believe having Smart as a trade asset was premeditated going into the off season.

They simply had a very dynamic and time bound situation with Washington becoming panic sellers after the Beal domino fell, a midnight extension decision with KP and the dropped Brogdon deal at the 13th hour.

Memphis swooped in at the precise moment as KP was falling from Brad's grip and I doubt they had any more than an hour to diligently deliberate. That's a gun to your head decision and Brad had to go on the instincts knowing it raises the talent ceiling significantly.

[lon3lytoaster]

Brad is not like Danny Ainge.

Ainge will say something then do something different from what he said.

Brad is not like that.

He told smart he wouldn’t be traded either.
Smart himself said that; but that didn’t last long

I don't believe having Smart as a trade asset was premeditated going into the off season.

They simply had a very dynamic and time bound situation with Washington becoming panic sellers after the Beal domino fell, a midnight extension decision with KP and the dropped Brogdon deal at the 13th hour.

Memphis swooped in at the precise moment as KP was falling from Brad's grip and I doubt they had any more than an hour to diligently deliberate. That's a gun to your head decision and Brad had to go on the instincts knowing it raises the talent ceiling significantly.

That’s how I see it. Obviously all speculation, but I doubt Brad said Marcus wouldn’t be traded. Possibly he said they weren’t actively looking to trade him but in his Grizz press conference, they basically say they just had an opportunity to make a deal for Marcus when they heard the deal with LA fell through. Sounded like they had tried several times in the past, and when they had the chance were more than willing to accommodate.

[Hal14]

He told smart he wouldn’t be traded either.
Smart himself said that; but that didn’t last long

I don't believe having Smart as a trade asset was premeditated going into the off season.

They simply had a very dynamic and time bound situation with Washington becoming panic sellers after the Beal domino fell, a midnight extension decision with KP and the dropped Brogdon deal at the 13th hour.

Memphis swooped in at the precise moment as KP was falling from Brad's grip and I doubt they had any more than an hour to diligently deliberate. That's a gun to your head decision and Brad had to go on the instincts knowing it raises the talent ceiling significantly.

That’s how I see it. Obviously all speculation, but I doubt Brad said Marcus wouldn’t be traded. Possibly he said they weren’t actively looking to trade him but in his Grizz press conference, they basically say they just had an opportunity to make a deal for Marcus when they heard the deal with LA fell through. Sounded like they had tried several times in the past, and when they had the chance were more than willing to accommodate.

Yeah I think Memphis had their eye on Marcus for awhile. A few factors made it a natural fit for Marcus to go to Memphis:

-It was announced on May 2 that Memphis didn't plan on resigning Dillon Brooks.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/grizzlies/2023/05/02/dillon-brooks-contract-grizzlies-dont-plan-re-sign-free-agent/70175507007/

Marcus and Brooks on the same team would make no sense. Once Memphis decided to not bring back Brooks, they probably started eyeballing Marcus as a potential replacement.

-Ja suspension. There were rumors about a lengthy suspension for Ja during the playoffs and then the suspension was officially announced on July 16:
https://www.nba.com/news/ja-morant-suspended-25-games

So now, the Grizzlies had a need at PG and a need to fill the tough, gritty perimeter defender void left by Brooks.

-On JUne 20, it's reported that the Grizzlies were looking to move Tyus Jones and find him a team where he could be the full-time starter:

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[Hal14]

lol

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[Hal14]

Traded for Siakam?

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[zoyathedestroya]

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[Fierce1]

So basically you're saying Brogdon isn't being traded anywhere. That's just a guess on your part, one that will probably be correct considering the vast majority of possible trades we discuss don't happen. I simply said it could be revisited, which means maybe or maybe not, so I don't understand what you're arguing. Fwiw, if Boston and the Clips were to engage in trade talks, I believe a 3rd team would be involved, just like the last time they discussed a Brogdon deal.

Brad said Brogs will not be traded.

I believe him.

So it's not a guess.

Just like many didn't believe the Cs would give JB the supermax even when the Cs kept saying they're serious about keeping JB in Boston.

Brad told Smart he wouldn't be traded. Take everything you hear reported with a grain of salt.

Other than reports, it just doesn't make sense to trade one of your best PGs when you already lost your starting PG.

There's just too much evidence to support the claim that Brogdon will be a Celtic for a while.

Maybe in the future Brogdon will be traded, but he'll be a Celtic when the season starts.

[GoGreen]

I'd trade Malcolm if we can get Dinwiddie and Royce back from the Nets.

I guess Dinwiddie is up for making some big money if he stays with them, and they may not want to pay him. Would be a great pick up imo and we get back a needed wing.

[Tyakack]

When smart was traded that closed any realistic scenario where we move Brogs. Maybe that changes further down the line but right now I'd be shocked if he was traded. We need him.

[31to6]

while we rehash Smart vs. Brogdon, worth keeping in mind that metrics had Smart as our 3rd-best PG last season -- even well behind Brogdon in the playoffs, which was striking to me, given how big Marcus came up in some games and how much Malcolm's late-playoffs injury dominates my recollection of his playoffs. Below I'm copy-pasting stats I pulled from bballref in Marcus' 'appreciation thread':

I love Marcus the player and what I know of the person. But it’s also worth keeping in mind that in terms of basketball players, the lineup gets better both with White (or Brogdon) at point guard and Porzingis at anything.

BPM last year/career:
Smart -1.0/-0.3
White 2.4/1.4
Brogdon 2.8/1.4
Porzingis 4.3/2.1

How about WS/48 last season/career:
Smart 0.092/0.092
White 0.154/0.119
Brogdon 0.161/0.122
Porzingis 0.174/0.133

PER?
Smart 12.1/12.4
White 15.4/15.3
Brogdon 18.2/17.0
Porzingis 23.1/20.4

okay but let’s look at the playoffs!
Playoff BPM/WS per 48/PER
Smart career 0.4/0.075/12.8
Smart this year 0.8/0.112/15.4

White career 1.4/0.119/15.3
White this year 2.4/0.154/15.4

Brogdon career 1.4/0.122/17.0
Brogdon this year 2.8/0.161/18.2

Porzingis career 2.1/0.129/18.1
Career playoffs is 10 games with DAL in 2020 and 2021

[31to6]

When smart was traded that closed any realistic scenario where we move Brogs. Maybe that changes further down the line but right now I'd be shocked if he was traded. We need him.

salary crunch as early as next season (especially if White joins JT, JB, and KP in the $30M+ club -- though I know that extension wouldn't kick in until '25) may dictate that he has to go as soon as this deadline, unfortunately.

[Hal14]

I'd trade Malcolm if we can get Dinwiddie and Royce back from the Nets.

I guess Dinwiddie is up for making some big money if he stays with them, and they may not want to pay him. Would be a great pick up imo and we get back a needed wing.

That doesn't work in the trade machine.

Also, I'm not sure i understand why the nets wouldn't want to sign Dinwiddie to that $32 mil a year extension but we would? Seems highly unlikely that we would have Tatum (due for supermax extension next summer), Brown (just signed biggest contract in NBA history), Porzingis ($30 mil a year on his extension) and Dinwiddie all on the same team.

D-White is due for a similar extension to the one Dinwiddie is eligible for. I doubt we trade for Dinwiddie and give him that extension instead of giving that $ to white. And there's no way we're gonna have tatum, brown, KP, dinwiddie and white all making $30mil or more per year at the same time.

[MeanGeraldGreen]

while we rehash Smart vs. Brogdon, worth keeping in mind that metrics had Smart as our 3rd-best PG last season -- even well behind Brogdon in the playoffs, which was striking to me, given how big Marcus came up in some games and how much Malcolm's late-playoffs injury dominates my recollection of his playoffs. Below I'm copy-pasting stats I pulled from bballref in Marcus' 'appreciation thread':

I love Marcus the player and what I know of the person. But it’s also worth keeping in mind that in terms of basketball players, the lineup gets better both with White (or Brogdon) at point guard and Porzingis at anything.

BPM last year/career:
Smart -1.0/-0.3
White 2.4/1.4
Brogdon 2.8/1.4
Porzingis 4.3/2.1

How about WS/48 last season/career:
Smart 0.092/0.092
White 0.154/0.119
Brogdon 0.161/0.122
Porzingis 0.174/0.133

PER?
Smart 12.1/12.4
White 15.4/15.3
Brogdon 18.2/17.0
Porzingis 23.1/20.4

okay but let’s look at the playoffs!
Playoff BPM/WS per 48/PER
Smart career 0.4/0.075/12.8
Smart this year 0.8/0.112/15.4

White career 1.4/0.119/15.3
White this year 2.4/0.154/15.4

Brogdon career 1.4/0.122/17.0
Brogdon this year 2.8/0.161/18.2

Porzingis career 2.1/0.129/18.1
Career playoffs is 10 games with DAL in 2020 and 2021

First off, Porzingis is a big upgrade over Smart. I love Smart, but it’s just the reality of it. I’m pretty sure they were going to move both Brogdon and Smart this summer as well.

Now for the stats, BPM is just a box score based stat, so naturally Brogdon is rated higher, similar deal with bball reference win shares.

Here is Smart and Brogdon ranked by most of the highly regarded advanced stats, the last 3 years.





By on/off percentile, this is how they’ve ranked the last three seasons.

Brogdon:
50th
77th
26th

Smart:
77th
84th
42nd

Smart for Porzingis was absolutely the right move. But based on what we know about the Grizzlies interest in Smart, I think the Celtics plan was probably to trade Brogdon for KP, then Smart to Memphis for Tyus/Warriors pick. But the Clippers ruined everything lol.

[Celtics_Champs]

Kristaps for Embiid who the hell says no?!?

[zoyathedestroya]

Kristaps for Embiid who the hell says no?!?

The CBA.

[Celtics_Champs]

Kristaps for Embiid who the hell says no?!?

The CBA.

I’m not familiar with him.