Official Draft Thread 2015-16

AgentGreen · Post #961 » by **AgentGreen** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 3:50 am

Who will be the hidden gems according to you guys in the 2nd round of the draft? Since we have a lot of 2nd round picks, is it sensible to use one on a project center? Lots of good bigs in the NBA today have been 2nd round sleepers.

lon3lytoaster · Post #962 » by **lon3lytoaster** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 4:02 am

AgentGreen wrote:Who will be the hidden gems according to you guys in the 2nd round of the draft? Since we have a lot of 2nd round picks, is it sensible to use one on a project center? Lots of good bigs in the NBA today have been 2nd round sleepers.

We'll probably pick Gabe Pruitt over Marc Gasol again. So, I mean..

gdagod10 · Post #963 » by **gdagod10** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 4:28 am

Hey guys, I forgot to post this yesterday. I was at the PC vs. Marquette game last night, while Trader Danny and RJ Hunter were in attendance. I'm positive Ainge fell in love with Dunn. The kid was playing superb. He missed a few shots and had a few careless passes but that entire offense is run through him. He's making Ben Bentil look like a top 20 player. He gets to the hoop at ease, finishes with both hands and can hit threes, albeit not at a high %. He missed a few clutch free throws as well but I was shocked the kid wasn't exhausted. He sat maybe a whole three minutes. I was trying to think of a comparison for you guys and was struggling. His dribbling is beyond smooth and he's amazing at using the PnR. He plays great D, but tends to gamble often, which is understandable considering he's the superstar on that team.

Bentil had a game high but so many of those came from beautiful passes from Dunn. He isn't as aggressive as Westbrook, or as crafty a passer as Rondo. I guess the closest comparison is a Kyrie-lite. His handles are phenomenal and he makes some high difficulty passes.

Here's where i'll get a little controversial. If Ainge sees something in this kid i guarantee he will draft him and consider moving on from Smart. Smart's offensive game is just nonexistent. I understand he's coming back from injury but his shot selection is so poor. His jumpers are always short and can't finish around length. Dunn is great at finishing at the rim and getting into the paint. I can talk about Ellenson if you guys want.

AgentGreen · Post #964 » by **AgentGreen** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 8:13 am

lon3lytoaster wrote:
AgentGreen wrote:Who will be the hidden gems according to you guys in the 2nd round of the draft? Since we have a lot of 2nd round picks, is it sensible to use one on a project center? Lots of good bigs in the NBA today have been 2nd round sleepers.

We'll probably pick Gabe Pruitt over Marc Gasol again. So, I mean..

Ainge and his guard fetish, ugh. Also never understood the JR Giddens pick, while Asik, Deandre and Pekovic where still on the boards.

chakdaddy · Post #965 » by **chakdaddy** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 8:42 am

Combo guards , Giddens haunts us forever. Is it because Danny was one himself? I don't want a starting SG under 6'5. Dunn had better unequivocally be the second coming of Dwayne Wade if we draft the same position with our top pick 3 years in a row - a position that is easy to find, doesn't really work as a starter, and is already filled by our best vet.

Bradley Smart Rozier - 3 deep at 6th man combo guard - with IT as another 6th man. Does a single player on our roster project as a starter? Crowder could start at SF but is not a cornerstone. Hunter someday? If so, he Still conflicts with the combo army. There's not a single other guy whose skill set, size, or athleticism doesn't render him a backup. Nice job Danny, f*** your assets.

Stadium5 · Post #966 » by **Stadium5** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 2:31 pm

Edug27 wrote:
Homerclease wrote:
Stadium5 wrote:No doubt

Ainge has a huge fetish for undersized guards. He's gotta get over it

He does? He signed Bradley to a cheap contract, stole IT for practically nothing and drafted smart who is hardly undersized as a PG.......I don't understand this position.

Yea. More like, "PG size without PG skillset. SG skillset without SG size"

But that's not entirely true in every case.

This is a more accurate take of what I was trying to say

Stadium5 · Post #967 » by **Stadium5** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 2:39 pm

chakdaddy wrote:Combo guards , Giddens haunts us forever. Is it because Danny was one himself? I don't want a starting SG under 6'5. Dunn had better unequivocally be the second coming of Dwayne Wade if we draft the same position with our top pick 3 years in a row - a position that is easy to find, doesn't really work as a starter, and is already filled by our best vet.

Bradley Smart Rozier - 3 deep at 6th man combo guard - with IT as another 6th man. Does a single player on our roster project as a starter? Crowder could start at SF but is not a cornerstone. Hunter someday? If so, he Still conflicts with the combo army. There's not a single other guy whose skill set, size, or athleticism doesn't render him a backup. Nice job Danny, f*** your assets.

Agreed. Minimum 6'6'; SG please. Im so sick and tired of not only having average talent, but also below average size for an NBA team

And Homerclease...i'm not including Smart in the undersized category as technically hes a PG so he has decent size

I'm talking about the likes of Bradley, IT, Giddens, Allen Ray, Nate Robinson, Marcus Banks, Phil phucking pressey. Not big enough for the skill set they have or there lack of

Banks2Pierce · Post #968 » by **Banks2Pierce** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 2:44 pm

chakdaddy wrote:Combo guards , Giddens haunts us forever.

You've just made it very clear that you don't understand what a combo guard is.

As for that second rounder question, I still like Troy Williams there. Brice Johnson as well. Very curious to see his Standing Reach. The Cal PG looks pretty polished. Hope some of the Euro draft and stashes can play.

Homerclease · Post #969 » by **Homerclease** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 2:59 pm

Stadium5 wrote:
chakdaddy wrote:Combo guards , Giddens haunts us forever. Is it because Danny was one himself? I don't want a starting SG under 6'5. Dunn had better unequivocally be the second coming of Dwayne Wade if we draft the same position with our top pick 3 years in a row - a position that is easy to find, doesn't really work as a starter, and is already filled by our best vet.

Bradley Smart Rozier - 3 deep at 6th man combo guard - with IT as another 6th man. Does a single player on our roster project as a starter? Crowder could start at SF but is not a cornerstone. Hunter someday? If so, he Still conflicts with the combo army. There's not a single other guy whose skill set, size, or athleticism doesn't render him a backup. Nice job Danny, f*** your assets.

Agreed. Minimum 6'6'; SG please. Im so sick and tired of not only having average talent, but also below average size for an NBA team

And Homerclease...i'm not including Smart in the undersized category as technically hes a PG so he has decent size

I'm talking about the likes of Bradley, IT, Giddens, Allen Ray, Nate Robinson, Marcus Banks, Phil phucking pressey. Not big enough for the skill set they have or there lack of

Ok well let's take a look at some of these guys. Pressey was an undrafted fringe NBA player, it's not like he ever took minutes from anyone in some sort of meaningful way. Either way he's gone now. Banks was how many years ago now? 9? Nate was acquired in a trade if I remember correctly.....wasn't he a throw in on the Perkins/Green trade? Ray was another undrafted guy who's no longer here so I guess your point is you'd rather try ideal sized guys at their position regardless of ability like a say, Orien Greene?

Let's look at the real meat and potatoes of this list and current celtics players IT and Bradley. IT was had for a Cleveland first rounder right? Guys who can flat out score like IT can despite the rest of his faults aren't easy to come by. Also factor in that he's on a great contract and i can't find a way to knock the GM for this. We all know he's better off as a 6th man spark plug type guy, that's on Smart to get healthy/better as the season goes on.

Bradley is a little more complex. Looking back to his draft class the value is certainly there at his draft slot. He never really developed as a PG where he would have ideal size so unfortunately we are left with an undersized SG. His defense is excellent despite his size and his shooting numbers are very very good this season. Were the celtics better off letting him walk as opposed to extending him a few years ago due to his size? I would say no and I would also say that his contract is of very good value in today's NBA whereas people slammed it as an overpay when first signed. So the real question I have is, where has Ainge gone wrong in more recent years and what should he have done different?

Ben-N1ce · Post #970 » by **Ben-N1ce** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 3:11 pm

gdagod10 wrote:Hey guys, I forgot to post this yesterday. I was at the PC vs. Marquette game last night, while Trader Danny and RJ Hunter were in attendance. I'm positive Ainge fell in love with Dunn. The kid was playing superb. He missed a few shots and had a few careless passes but that entire offense is run through him. He's making Ben Bentil look like a top 20 player. He gets to the hoop at ease, finishes with both hands and can hit threes, albeit not at a high %. He missed a few clutch free throws as well but I was shocked the kid wasn't exhausted. He sat maybe a whole three minutes. I was trying to think of a comparison for you guys and was struggling. His dribbling is beyond smooth and he's amazing at using the PnR. He plays great D, but tends to gamble often, which is understandable considering he's the superstar on that team.

Bentil had a game high but so many of those came from beautiful passes from Dunn. He isn't as aggressive as Westbrook, or as crafty a passer as Rondo. I guess the closest comparison is a Kyrie-lite. His handles are phenomenal and he makes some high difficulty passes.

Here's where i'll get a little controversial. If Ainge sees something in this kid i guarantee he will draft him and consider moving on from Smart. Smart's offensive game is just nonexistent. I understand he's coming back from injury but his shot selection is so poor. His jumpers are always short and can't finish around length. Dunn is great at finishing at the rim and getting into the paint. I can talk about Ellenson if you guys want.

Dunn will be better than Smart. I have little doubt. If we fall out of the top 3 and he doesn't take him when he took the likes of Rozier I won't be happy.

Gomes3PC · Post #971 » by **Gomes3PC** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 5:00 pm

Dunn is not the defender that Smart is, but he's close, and he's got the first step on offense that Smart lacks. The good news is I think they could play together if Smart can turn into a reliable 3 point shooter, because Dunn is a legit point guard. Having a pair of 6-3+ guards with their defensive ability would be fantastic - just need to find the shooting around them to make it work.

Shamrock · Post #972 » by **Shamrock** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 5:26 pm

Dunn up to 39.5% from 3 on the season for PC.

Gomes3PC · Post #973 » by **Gomes3PC** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 6:28 pm

Shamrock wrote:Dunn up to 39.5% from 3 on the season for PC.

Should be noted that almost all of those are off the dribble, as his teammates rarely create open looks for him.

Celtsfan1980 · Post #974 » by **Celtsfan1980** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 8:11 pm

This team needs offense badly. I hope the later picks reflect that.

chakdaddy wrote:Does a single player on our roster project as a starter?

I recall Luc Longley started on a Championship team multiple years and Greg Ostertag started on a team that made a Championship as well. Crowder is clearly better, Mickey will likely prove much better, and half our roster may be just as good.

Bluewhale · Post #975 » by **Bluewhale** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 9:56 pm

Dunn was born at 1994 March 18
Smart was born at 1994 March 6

Basically they are at the same age. It is uncommon for player with talent stayed in school so long recently.

I am not against Dunn because Damian Lillard also played 4 year NCAA and performs very well in NBA.

AgentGreen · Post #976 » by **AgentGreen** » Fri Jan 8, 2016 12:07 am

Luwawu is starting to grow on me, good candidate for our own 1st round pick. Im quite impressed with his gameplay. Great athlete.

Avalanche · Post #977 » by **Avalanche** » Fri Jan 8, 2016 12:16 am

Simmons/Ingram
Stone
Luwawu

= My semi realistic best case scenario right now

chakdaddy · Post #978 » by **chakdaddy** » Fri Jan 8, 2016 12:52 am

Banks2Pierce wrote:
chakdaddy wrote:Combo guards , Giddens haunts us forever.

You've just made it very clear that you don't understand what a combo guard is.

How about combo guard size but without PG skills, is that better? A prospect who projects to a role notch less useful than a combo guard. But there MUST be some reason no one has taken the consensus lottery high school big...so better play it safe on an undersized asset without upside.

chakdaddy · Post #979 » by **chakdaddy** » Fri Jan 8, 2016 12:58 am

Celtsfan1980 wrote:This team needs offense badly. I hope the later picks reflect that.
chakdaddy wrote:Does a single player on our roster project as a starter?

I recall Luc Longley started on a Championship team multiple years and Greg Ostertag started on a team that made a Championship as well. Crowder is clearly better, Mickey will likely prove much better, and half our roster may be just as good.

Luc Longley was the 8th most important Bulls player on the floor after Jordan, Pippen, 3 refs, Rodman, and Harper. And the late 90s were the absolute nadir of talent dilution in the NBA.

A better way to put it - we don't have a single player who projects better than the 5th-8th guy in a contender's rotation. Crowder could absolutely be a solid glue guy in the starting lineup. I guess he could make it near 4th man, old Ron Harper, Bryon Russell territory. But we're trying to build around that and a bunch of Jud Buechlers and Howard Eisleys.

bucknersrevenge · Post #980 » by **bucknersrevenge** » Fri Jan 8, 2016 2:12 am

Gomes3PC wrote:Dunn is not the defender that Smart is, but he's close, and he's got the first step on offense that Smart lacks. The good news is I think they could play together if Smart can turn into a reliable 3 point shooter, because Dunn is a legit point guard. Having a pair of 6-3+ guards with their defensive ability would be fantastic - just need to find the shooting around them to make it work.

Really starting to warm up to this idea. Both are 6'4, 220. Switching will be easy when necessary. Think both could play off each other's energy. Back them up with Rozier and Hunter who could play off either player. But we'd have to find takers for AB and IT.