Boston All-Sports Thread

wco81 · Post #961 » by **wco81** » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:03 am

Damn Mookie saving runs for Dodgers and getting them into the WS ...

Post #962 » by **K For Three** » Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:21 am

The Comedian wrote:My only contribution to this, I know with near certainty that the Pats really do like Stidham as a good starting QB in this league. They just couldn’t pass up Cam on a nothing contract.

Cam helped with name recognition IMO. Hell it got my old man pumped up, he still is. He keeps making excuses.

On a side note, most people in NE are temporary side Bucs fans too and just looking at the NFC I think Brady has a real shot at this.

Post #963 » by **K For Three** » Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:23 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:Cave, lets come up with parameters and we’ll revisit at a certain date. Im not a fan of the disrespectful stuff and know this could trend to people jumping on you and I’m not about that [for real, I do enjoy you and even enjoy debating with you because, while even if you come at me, we dont go personal and its nice to be challenged].

Edit: How about; if Cam leads us to a winning record, I win. 500 or worse, you win. If we have a winning record in spite of Cam, you win too [ie actively bad].

Oh, I don't care about people jumping on me, believe that. I love this ****. My only thing is don't get personal unless I am allowed to get personal back lol. I have been called all sorts of names just for saying that a washed-up David Lee was asswater, or that Boogie was an overrated cancer not worth trading the Nets picks for. You obviously don't get personal, and we are fine, don't worry about that.

I posted about the Cam stans being quiet after a dog **** performance vs a weak Washington team yesterday in response to those who were taking Week 2 victory laps. I don't see a need for any parameters on this. The truth will come out in the wash. For my money, QB is not that important a position for us this year. We are a middling to slightly below middling team that is in a development year, and I would rather just develop Stidham and flip as much cap as possible over to next year.

Denver.

I suppose it doesn't really matter though since they both stink. :lol:

Captain_Caveman · Post #964 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:32 am

Kemba For Three wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:Cave, lets come up with parameters and we’ll revisit at a certain date. Im not a fan of the disrespectful stuff and know this could trend to people jumping on you and I’m not about that [for real, I do enjoy you and even enjoy debating with you because, while even if you come at me, we dont go personal and its nice to be challenged].

Edit: How about; if Cam leads us to a winning record, I win. 500 or worse, you win. If we have a winning record in spite of Cam, you win too [ie actively bad].

Oh, I don't care about people jumping on me, believe that. I love this ****. My only thing is don't get personal unless I am allowed to get personal back lol. I have been called all sorts of names just for saying that a washed-up David Lee was asswater, or that Boogie was an overrated cancer not worth trading the Nets picks for. You obviously don't get personal, and we are fine, don't worry about that.

I posted about the Cam stans being quiet after a dog **** performance vs a weak Washington team yesterday in response to those who were taking Week 2 victory laps. I don't see a need for any parameters on this. The truth will come out in the wash. For my money, QB is not that important a position for us this year. We are a middling to slightly below middling team that is in a development year, and I would rather just develop Stidham and flip as much cap as possible over to next year.

Denver.

I suppose it doesn't really matter though since they both stink.

Haha, a brainfart, but also kinda emblematic of how totally forgettable they are.

Post #965 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:24 pm

The Comedian wrote:My only contribution to this, I know with near certainty that the Pats really do like Stidham as a good starting QB in this league. They just couldn’t pass up Cam on a nothing contract.

I dont doubt it, but they also really liked Ryan Mallett. Theyre also keenly aware that NE/Boston fans eat up any PR that essentially is ‘were smarter than you’ and acted accordingly. Hell, its not a coincidence that Cam was announced the same day we got docked a pick— Kraft and team manage fans via the media better than any other ownership group in the city.

Post #966 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:34 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:[
Oh, woooooow. You think that maybe a historic global pandemic that took 30-40% or more of the league's revenue away for back-to-back seasons overnight maybe will have some impact on Hayward's decision to opt-in or not? You have to be pretty thirsty to hang an L on me if you are going there. He would obviously get $20m a year on the open market fwiw, even now. Pre_COVID, I think I said it would have been great to give him 3/80 or 3/90 this summer post opt-out? We probably don't have that option anymore, and it won't be a good thing if we are forced to cut costs this offseason.

He wouldnt have gotten the deal pre-COVID. He wont get it now. For fun, were not going to have to cut costs, other than around the edges. Players will exchange a higher % of salary taken into escrow [which will eventually be grabbed by owners] to allow the initial cap projections to stick. Its a nifty way to still keep the 49-51 BRI split while also spreading the cap ramifications across the entire NBAPA.

The Jaylen thing is a bit annoying, because no, that is not what I said. Over and over and over, I said that I understood why we gave him that deal. It is a weak FA class, and we got leveraged into it. I get that. But that doesn't make it a good deal. Giving big money to non-elite players is what teams like the Kings do, and I don't want to be the Kings. The fact that there are bad teams out there who would have given Jaylen the same money or more is meaningless to me. What does mean something to me is that we are a team that is one significant move away, and we can't make that move in part because we now have three non-elite players who are overpaid relative to their impact on the floor. I'm in this for titles and nothing else, and our shot at winning them has taken big hits in part because of those contracts. I would like to think highly enough of the intellect of others to believe all that isn't too much nuance to absorb.

Because its an asset play. The best thing Morey did as a GM was educate fans on how players can be viewed as assets. Jaylen on a sub-max deal is a bigger asset than Jaylen on a max deal and, if we ever choose to move him, it ups his value as owners can sell it to their fanbase.

The Kemba and Hayward deals are FAR more problematic than Jaylen’s deal.

As to Cam, no idea what you are on about. He is not playing well at all. He was putrid vs a terrible team yesterday. 162 passing yards or less in 3 of his 4 games. 2 passing TDs to 4 INTs overall. We have other issues on offense, but this guy literally can't hit anyone past 10 yards. Only time he looked like a halfway decent QB this year was working a Seahawks prevent defense in the middle of the field after they'd lost three middle of the field defenders earlier in the game. It's nice that he can run, but it is a garbage offense, and his broken-down body is not going to hold up to the hits he is taking. When he gets hurt and we go to Stidham, there won't be a drop-off, and we might even improve.

We had the 8th best offense in the NFL per PFF [which you’ve referenced to detriment Cam, so you cant now ignore it] before he got COVID. Now were supposed to biry him because we lost after not practicing for 2 weeks and were missing 4 lineman?

This is literally the definition of being a plastic fan— your melting because the team hit an understandable speed bump.

As to Stidham, did you watch the KC game? He was **** putrid. It was like watching IT trying to guard LeBron. He **** his pants and threw up all over himself. And he couldnt beat out Hoyer? LOL. Yikes man. Yikes.

Post #967 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:00 pm

threrf23 wrote:

Ryan Fitzpatrick isnt better— two of his wins came against the Jags and the Flacco-led Jets. This one is laughable.

Journeyman, he at least plays with fire, though.

Read on Twitter

Tough day for Fitzmagic, getting benched for performance reasons.

Post #968 » by **Parliament10** » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:05 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
threrf23 wrote:

Ryan Fitzpatrick isnt better— two of his wins came against the Jags and the Flacco-led Jets. This one is laughable.

Journeyman, he at least plays with fire, though.

Read on Twitter

Tough day for Fitzmagic, getting benched for performance reasons.

Wow. Tough break for Fitzpatrick. He will be 38 next month, though.
Father Time is creeping up on him.

Captain_Caveman · Post #969 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:24 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:A lot of stuff.

Saying that Hayward wouldn't have gotten a deal that averaged $20m a year on the open market without COVID is crazy talk. Especially with no other FAs out there.

How did lamenting getting leveraged into overpaying Jaylen by $4m a year due to a weak FA get turned into me saying we should have let him hit the market, or even saying we should let him walk for nothing? Hard to have an honest discussion about what I said or think when we start from there, lol. My take wasn't that we shouldn't have given him the contract, it was that it sucks that we had to. That's a pretty tepid molehill to try to make a mountain of, but have at it. I'll be here.

The real issue with paying guys like Jaylen that kind of money is borne from the max contract limits. With no max contracts, guys like Giannis, Kawhi, and AD would make like $60-70m a year, and there would be no money to give non-elite players contracts that are so close in scale to the ones of actual superstars. By artificially reducing the money actual superstars get, you artificially increase the money the 3rd and 4th tier players get. One can easily argue that this is their "market value", and one can easily also argue that giving out contracts like that to non-elite players is exactly how not to win a title, and that the entire goal here is to get 2-3 actual stars, who can then be surrounded by low-priced dog **** you found on the sidewalk, provided that said dog **** complements the skills of the said actual stars.

We are just on different planets when it comes to the Patriots and Cam. 8th best offense? Is that really what you are seeing out there? I'm seeing a top defense, top special teams, GOAT coach, and possible GOAT offensive coordinator trying to make chicken salad out of chicken **** out there. While they are far from the only problem on offense, all three of our QBs have been a complete train wreck in the last couple of games. At least Hoyer and Stidham sucked against a real team. For my money, this was and is a 6-8 win team with no serious postseason aspirations no matter who is at QB, and that the offense with Cam is both ugly and unsustainable.

Does acknowledging those realities make me a "plastic fan"? Reeeeeaaaally? Same guy who had to go to bat for the both the Pats and Red Sox in the first of these General Boston sports threads two years ago? Both of whom then won championships? And on a board where I went to war with people hating on a young and injured Celts team during a playoff run just a couple of weeks ago?

Sorry if the Pats not winning a title this season is news to you, but plastic fan, my ass. I'm Team Belichick until one of us dies. I believe in his ability to develop young players, and to use our cap room next offseason to adapt to COVID better than anyone else. I also don't see Cam as contributing to either of those goals. He is a beat up player who is probably only a few games away from breaking down, IMO. Yay, team?

Captain_Caveman · Post #970 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:38 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
threrf23 wrote:

Ryan Fitzpatrick isnt better— two of his wins came against the Jags and the Flacco-led Jets. This one is laughable.

Journeyman, he at least plays with fire, though.

Read on Twitter

Tough day for Fitzmagic, getting benched for performance reasons.

Getting benched for a top 5 pick they just drafted.

Post #971 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:36 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:A lot of stuff.

Saying that Hayward wouldn't have gotten a deal that averaged $20m a year on the open market without COVID is crazy talk. Especially with no other FAs out there.

How did lamenting getting leveraged into overpaying Jaylen by $4m a year due to a weak FA get turned into me saying we should have let him hit the market, or even saying we should let him walk for nothing? Hard to have an honest discussion about what I said or think when we start from there, lol. My take wasn't that we shouldn't have given him the control act, it was that it sucks that we had to. That's a pretty tepid molehill to try to make a mountain of, but have at it. I'll be here.

The real issue with paying guys like Jaylen that kind of money is borne from the max contract limits. With no max contracts, guys like Giannis, Kawhi, and AD would make like $60-70m a year, and there would be no money to give non-elite players contracts that are so close in scale to the ones of actual superstars. By artificially reducing the money actual superstars get, you artificially increase the money the 3rd and 4th tier players get. One can easily argue that this is their "market value", and one can easily also argue that giving out contracts like that to non-elite players is exactly how not to win a title, and that the entire goal here is to get 2-3 actual stars, who can then be surrounded by low-priced dog **** you found on the sidewalk, provided that said dog **** complements the skills of the said actual stars.

We are just on different planets when it comes to the Patriots and Cam. 8th best offense? Is that really what you are seeing out there? I'm seeing a top defense, top special teams, GOAT coach, and possible GOAT offensive coordinator trying to make chicken salad out of chicken **** out there. While they are far from the only problem on offense, all three of our QBs have been a complete train wreck in the last couple of games. At least Hoyer and Stidham sucked against a real team. For my money, this was and is a 6-8 win team with no serious postseason aspirations no matter who is at QB, and that the offense with Cam is both ugly and unsustainable.

Does acknowledging those realities make me a "plastic fan"? Reeeeeaaaally? Same guy who had to go to bat for the both the Pats and Red Sox in the first of these General Boston sports threads two years ago? Both of whom then won championships? And on a board where I went to war with people hating on a young and injured Celts team during a playoff run just a couple of weeks ago?

Sorry if the Pats not winning a title this season is news to you, but plastic fan, my ass. I'm Team Belichick until one of us dies. I believe in his ability to develop young players, and to use our cap room next offseason to adapt to COVID better than anyone else. I also don't see Cam as contributing to either of those goals. He is a beat up player who is probably only a few games away from breaking down, IMO. Yay, team?

No teams had money! Teams werent going to spend that money on him when they can chase a guy like FVV instead. Atlanta, Charlotte, Detroit, Phoenix, New York— none of these location make a lick of sense. New York was always going to keep their cap clean for 21. Atlanta, Charlotte and Detroit dont make sense directionally. Phoenix was always going to prefer a guy like FVV who can grow with their core. Its market dynamics— there was no demand and no team would leverage itself to sign Hayward because no team that could is a ‘Hayward away’.

There was no path forward other than re-signing Brown. We cant let him go. Getting leveraged to give him a max 3+1 **** sucks. Getting him for 20M below his max salary is a good thing relative to all other choices on the board.

Our **** up, if anything, was signing both Hayward and Kemba to 30% max’s when, had we kept our powder dry, we may have been able to actually be players for an FA next summer. Oh well.

8th best is what PFF pegged them— the same PFF you cited to demerit him. Funny how theyre only credible when theyre convenient to you...

And yes, melting down cuz Cam looked bad after coming back from COVID and the team didnt practice for 2 weeks and we were missing 4 OL is plastic fan ****. Same crap you CRUSH The Corey’s for.

The Pats were never winning a title this year, but you dont **** nuke the culture of your program by starting complete ass water Stidham. No one in that locker room had confidence in him. Consider that sourced. You cant just tank your **** program which is built on a hard-ass coach by starting some **** **** that no one believes in at QB. Vets then stop buying in, everyone ascribes previous success to TB and the gravy train crashes.

Its a bridge year. Theyre gonna make the playoffs and go as far as they can. Probably win a round. Then go hard after another QB and spend the rest on actual players cuz our cap situation is golden going forward. The only **** we cant do is throw out an incompetent QB who leads us to a 4-12 record. And spoiler: even 6 wins with Stidham is lofty, so youre wrong there. Yet you keep advocating as if thats the path we shouldve taken. Laughable.

MagicBagley18 · Post #972 » by **MagicBagley18** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:31 am

Man I love this f’ing friendly fire goIn on in this thread between 2 of my dudes......keep this intensity for the c’s next season!

Post #973 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:18 am

MagicBagley18 wrote:Man I love this f’ing friendly fire goIn on in this thread between 2 of my dudes......keep this intensity for the c’s next season!

Man I’m fine being wrong if I am. But dude wants to finally run his mouth after one bad game where we were missing 4 OL and hadnt practiced in 2 weeks and ignores all context. And ignores his boy **** his pants on live TV and couldnt beat out a guy who threw up on himself while **** his pants on live TV.

I gave pretty friendly terms for him to win. Ill be here all season if he wants to chirp. Or we can wait it out. Im game either way.

MagicBagley18 · Post #974 » by **MagicBagley18** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:40 am

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:Man I love this f’ing friendly fire goIn on in this thread between 2 of my dudes......keep this intensity for the c’s next season!

Man I’m fine being wrong if I am. But dude wants to finally run his mouth after one bad game where we were missing 4 OL and hadnt practiced in 2 weeks and ignores all context. And ignores his boy **** his pants on live TV and couldnt beat out a guy who threw up on himself while **** his pants on live TV.

I gave pretty friendly terms for him to win. Ill be here all season if he wants to chirp. Or we can wait it out. Im game either way.

Trust me....I’m a cowboys fan, we just suckkkkkkkk and there’s no debating. I appreciate the passion

Captain_Caveman · Post #975 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:46 am

Teams can create cap room when they need to. Just as we did with Kemba. Half the league had that ability with Hayward on a 3-year deal that started at $19m prior to COVID.

On Jaylen, still not what I have been saying. I fully understand that slightly overpaying him due to a dearth of free agents this offseason was the only option, I am just lamenting that it had to be that way. And no, not at all realistic to think that we should have passed on Kemba or Hayward just to roll max cap room over for years on end. Even if, like Jaylen, they were and are realistically overpaid by $4m a year or so.

Back to the Pats, PFF stats are tenuous even when they are provided in the form of three seasons' worth of games, as I provided. In the form of a sample size of 4-5 games? Nah. Acting like playing a washed up Newton is saving the Pats from "nuking their culture" is also a bit dramatic. Post opt-outs, we were talking about 6-8 wins this year. Mostly because of Belichick, and because of our defense and McDaniels, and because we have slob teams like the Jets, Broncos, and Texans making up a quarter of our schedule.

My takes on the Pats are also nothing at all like spamming each and every game thread for years on end to constantly complain about a young, and often injured Celtics team that has generally over performed for the most part. Probably more accurate to say that me speaking pragmatically about people's binkies is often a trigger. I took a shot at cam stans yesterday, but to be fair, I was also called out after Game 2 by people saying he was an MVP-caliber leader of a Super Bowl contender, lol.

Captain_Caveman · Post #976 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:08 am

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:Man I love this f’ing friendly fire goIn on in this thread between 2 of my dudes......keep this intensity for the c’s next season!

Man I’m fine being wrong if I am. But dude wants to finally run his mouth after one bad game where we were missing 4 OL and hadnt practiced in 2 weeks and ignores all context. And ignores his boy **** his pants on live TV and couldnt beat out a guy who threw up on himself while **** his pants on live TV.

I gave pretty friendly terms for him to win. Ill be here all season if he wants to chirp. Or we can wait it out. Im game either way.

Yeah, because no one tried "running their mouth" at me after Week 2, claiming victory and trying to make me take a shame walk like Cersei haha. You think I was going to maybe bring up him **** the bed vs a sorry Broncos team a few weeks later? Dude was missing open receivers all over the place, lol.

Take it personal if you must.

Also, I'm not some huge Stidham stan or anything. I just think they might as well play the kid, and don't get the Cam experiment at all.

Saint Lazarus · Post #977 » by **Saint Lazarus** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:41 am

The Comedian wrote:

Saint Lazarus · Post #978 » by **Saint Lazarus** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:44 am

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
threrf23 wrote:

Ryan Fitzpatrick isnt better— two of his wins came against the Jags and the Flacco-led Jets. This one is laughable.

Journeyman, he at least plays with fire, though.

Read on Twitter

Tough day for Fitzmagic, getting benched for performance reasons.

Tua should be sweating bullets. He’s about 3 plays from tearing his acl because of fitzmagic voodoo

Post #979 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:50 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:Teams can create cap room when they need to. Just as we did with Kemba. Half the league had that ability with Hayward on a 3-year deal that started at $19m prior to COVID.

On Jaylen, still not what I have been saying. I fully understand that slightly overpaying him due to a dearth of free agents this offseason was the only option, I am just lamenting that it had to be that way. And no, not at all realistic to think that we should have passed on Kemba or Hayward just to roll max cap room over for years on end. Even if, like Jaylen, they were and are realistically overpaid by $4m a year or so.

Back to the Pats, PFF stats are tenuous even when they are provided in the form of three seasons' worth of games, as I provided. In the form of a sample size of 4-5 games? Nah. Acting like playing a washed up Newton is saving the Pats from "nuking their culture" is also a bit dramatic. Post opt-outs, we were talking about 6-8 wins this year. Mostly because of Belichick, and because of our defense and McDaniels, and because we have slob teams like the Jets, Broncos, and Texans making up a quarter of our schedule.

My takes on the Pats are also nothing at all like spamming each and every game thread for years on end to constantly complain about a young, and often injured Celtics team that has generally over performed for the most part. Probably more accurate to say that me speaking pragmatically about people's binkies is often a trigger. I took a shot at cam stans yesterday, but to be fair, I was also called out after Game 2 by people saying he was an MVP-caliber leader of a Super Bowl contender, lol.

A) no team was leveraging themselves for Hayward because no team in position to do so was a ‘Hayward type’ away from a title.

B) if we were rollin with Stidham, even more players were opting out because no one believed they could win with him. With ass water Stidham, 4 is probably even generous.

C) I never even came close to doing this. And, for the record, I just looked at the thread and no one else was either.

BillTheGOAT · Post #980 » by **BillTheGOAT** » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:18 pm

Perry: Patriots are seemingly returning to health just in time

Read on Twitter

A long time ago, someone told me practice makes perfect...