Hard to Believe Ainge will Make any Move Soon Trade Thread

[keevsnick1]

I think Beal and KAT have the same issue, they don't really increase your ceiling enough to make a Brown for Beal/KAT trade worth it assuming of course that Brown ends the year as like 90 percent of the player he's been so far.

Real Plus Minus isnt a perfect stat, but it is interesting if you just want to get a rough idea of where a player is. If I asked you who the worst PG is among Defensive RPM was last year you probably say Trae Young, he was clearly awful. You' be right. Well Bradley Beal was 138 out of 138 last year amongst SG's and KAT was 72 out of 72 amongst Centers. Now I don't think those guys are literally the worst defensive players at their position, but they are clearly below average and that is especially problematic when Beal would be playing next to Kemba Walker (not a good defender) and KAT is a Center (the most important defensive position).

Its even more problematic if the guy you add to Jaylen Brown is Marcus Smart. To me thats an absolute non starter. Can't get that much worse defensively an still take yourself seriously as a contender.

If you want to actually win something it has to be based off ADDING A THIRD GUY to Brown/Tatum an then upgrading your depth with the TPE/young guys improving. The best way for that to happen is Kemba come back, looks healthy and balls out, then you flip him this summer to one of these teams with a ton of cap space (but no real free agents options left besides Oladipo) for assets which you combine with your own for a third star.

Part of this is, how do you convince other stars to force their way to your team? The answer is having TWO awesome guys they want to play with. That only works if Tatum/Brown are off the table an good enough other guys want to join them, but I think by the end of the year thats possible.

People will say its impossible to get another star without giving up brown, but if Kemba can make his contract positive value in an offseason where 10 teams could directly absorb him, and if the C's are willing to empty out their future picks, I think its possible.

Putting aside the Celtics perspective, I also dont know why MIN would trade a guy with 4 years left on his deal for another guy with... 4 years left on his deal. That doesn't really solve the "I'm afraid our star will leave" issue for them does it?

[Andrew McCeltic]

Not worried about the Nets. We're in better long-term shape.

Where my head is at: how can Ainge use the TPE, maybe Kemba, and maybe even Smart to get us in position for the next star to go on the market? That includes future stars who haven't emerged yet, the Brandon Ingrams of the league, and the Oladipos, who are waiting for a change of scenery to blossom.

The problem is that there just aren't that many. It means looking at Aaron Gordon, Zach Lavine, Lonzo Ball, maybe John Collins and Mo Bamba, Myles Turner, Talen Horton-Tucker, Marvin Bagley III

Who become chips to get you KAT or Ben Simmons or Bradley Beal, if they don't emerge on their own.

It doesn't look like there's much on that front - would we give up Langford to the Magic (a cheap, high upside Fournier understudy) for Aaron Gordon? Where are the minutes at the 3 or 4? Most likely the TPE's going to expire.

[Feed Your Head]

I think Beal and KAT have the same issue, they don't really increase your ceiling enough to make a Brown for Beal/KAT trade worth it assuming of course that Brown ends the year as like 90 percent of the player he's been so far.

Real Plus Minus isnt a perfect stat, but it is interesting if you just want to get a rough idea of where a player is. If I asked you who the worst PG is among Defensive RPM was last year you probably say Trae Young, he was clearly awful. You' be right. Well Bradley Beal was 138 out of 138 last year amongst SG's and KAT was 72 out of 72 amongst Centers. Now I don't think those guys are literally the worst defensive players at their position, but they are clearly below average and that is especially problematic when Beal would be playing next to Kemba Walker (not a good defender) and KAT is a Center (the most important defensive position).

If you want to actually win something it has to be based off ADDING A THIRD GUY to Brown/Tatum an then upgrading your depth with the TPE/young guys improving. The best way for that to happen is Kemba come back, looks healthy and balls out, then you flip him this summer to one of these teams with a ton of cap space (but no real free agents options left besides Oladipo) for assets which you combine with your own for a third star.

Putting aside the Celtics perspective, I also dont know why MIN would trade a guy with 4 years left on his deal for another guy with... 4 years left on his deal. That doesn't really solve the "I'm afraid our star will leave issue for them does it?

Defensive RPM is pretty rough though, Duncan Robinson had the best defensive RPM amongst SG’s last year. Jaylen was 37th amongst SG’s as well, which is garbage lol.

All defensive impact stats are pretty flawed. I like PIPM the most, but it’s not going to be free this season, which really sucks. Beals defense has been a disaster for a few years now, but I think with less of a burden offensively, he can be average. Him and Kemba is a bad, bad defensive backcourt though.

Towns is a tough case, the franchise is such a disaster that I have a hard time getting a good gauge on him. I’m with you that adding to Tatum/Jaylen is the ideal scenario, need Kemba to show that his knee is healthy.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I think Beal and KAT have the same issue, they don't really increase your ceiling enough to make a Brown for Beal/KAT trade worth it assuming of course that Brown ends the year as like 90 percent of the player he's been so far.

Real Plus Minus isnt a perfect stat, but it is interesting if you just want to get a rough idea of where a player is. If I asked you who the worst PG is among Defensive RPM was last year you probably say Trae Young, he was clearly awful. You' be right. Well Bradley Beal was 138 out of 138 last year amongst SG's and KAT was 72 out of 72 amongst Centers. Now I don't think those guys are literally the worst defensive players at their position, but they are clearly below average and that is especially problematic when Beal would be playing next to Kemba Walker (not a good defender) and KAT is a Center (the most important defensive position).

Its even more problematic if the guy you add to Jaylen Brown is Marcus Smart. To me thats an absolute non starter. Can't get that much worse defensively an still take yourself seriously as a contender.

If you want to actually win something it has to be based off ADDING A THIRD GUY to Brown/Tatum an then upgrading your depth with the TPE/young guys improving. The best way for that to happen is Kemba come back, looks healthy and balls out, then you flip him this summer to one of these teams with a ton of cap space (but no real free agents options left besides Oladipo) for assets which you combine with your own for a third star.

Putting aside the Celtics perspective, I also dont know why MIN would trade a guy with 4 years left on his deal for another guy with... 4 years left on his deal. That doesn't really solve the "I'm afraid our star will leave" issue for them does it?

MIN has good management now, even if they have too many guards and still drafted the wrong one. That buys the franchise time, at least, unless they come up with a Towns trade on their own.

[SLCceltic]

No thanks giving up a 1st round pick for a pj tucker rental as I don’t wanna pay him moving forward what he will want. All set on oladipo.

Draft picks for a guy whose oft injured and if he plays great for us we have to max and hope he stays he stays healthy?.....that’s if he doesn’t bolt.

Save the picks in case we wanna make one of these ridiculous all in moves and or need to attach them to kemba if his knee implodes not on a 35 year old who would help but not move the needle or dipo whose 1 foot out the door to Miami and the other foot in the surgery room

PJs value is about 3 2nds we can happily absorb his salary with part of the tpe .. he is shooting 52% from 3 so far this season, no reason to think he would not fit SEAMLESSLY here and be a perfect starter with kemba Jays & TT .... would play well with Smart also !

[MagicBagley18]

No thanks giving up a 1st round pick for a pj tucker rental as I don’t wanna pay him moving forward what he will want. All set on oladipo.

Draft picks for a guy whose oft injured and if he plays great for us we have to max and hope he stays he stays healthy?.....that’s if he doesn’t bolt.

Save the picks in case we wanna make one of these ridiculous all in moves and or need to attach them to kemba if his knee implodes not on a 35 year old who would help but not move the needle or dipo whose 1 foot out the door to Miami and the other foot in the surgery room

PJs value is about 3 2nds we can happily absorb his salary with part of the tpe .. he is shooting 52% from 3 so far this season, no reason to think he would not fit SEAMLESSLY here and be a perfect starter with kemba Jays & TT .... would play well with Smart also !

Right and if it’s for 2Nd rounders sure but one of the responses was to a post that said he’s gettable for a 1st rounder and I’m all set on that and also it’s been noted houston is holding out until the deadline for a contender to get desperate and offer a 1st. For 2nd round picks? Sure.

[MagicBagley18]

I think Beal and KAT have the same issue, they don't really increase your ceiling enough to make a Brown for Beal/KAT trade worth it assuming of course that Brown ends the year as like 90 percent of the player he's been so far.

Real Plus Minus isnt a perfect stat, but it is interesting if you just want to get a rough idea of where a player is. If I asked you who the worst PG is among Defensive RPM was last year you probably say Trae Young, he was clearly awful. You' be right. Well Bradley Beal was 138 out of 138 last year amongst SG's and KAT was 72 out of 72 amongst Centers. Now I don't think those guys are literally the worst defensive players at their position, but they are clearly below average and that is especially problematic when Beal would be playing next to Kemba Walker (not a good defender) and KAT is a Center (the most important defensive position).

If you want to actually win something it has to be based off ADDING A THIRD GUY to Brown/Tatum an then upgrading your depth with the TPE/young guys improving. The best way for that to happen is Kemba come back, looks healthy and balls out, then you flip him this summer to one of these teams with a ton of cap space (but no real free agents options left besides Oladipo) for assets which you combine with your own for a third star.

Putting aside the Celtics perspective, I also dont know why MIN would trade a guy with 4 years left on his deal for another guy with... 4 years left on his deal. That doesn't really solve the "I'm afraid our star will leave issue for them does it?

Defensive RPM is pretty rough though, Duncan Robinson had the best defensive RPM amongst SG’s last year. Jaylen was 37th amongst SG’s as well, which is garbage lol.

All defensive impact stats are pretty flawed. I like PIPM the most, but it’s not going to be free this season, which really sucks. Beals defense has been a disaster for a few years now, but I think with less of a burden offensively, he can be average. Him and Kemba is a bad, bad defensive backcourt though.

Towns is a tough case, the franchise is such a disaster that I have a hard time getting a good gauge on him. I’m with you that adding to Tatum/Jaylen is the ideal scenario, need Kemba to show that his knee is healthy.

Assuming hypothetically for **** and giggles what’s your package to get beal if it means adding him to brown and Tatum and in your opinion is that a “super team” that’s good enough

[keevsnick1]

I think Beal and KAT have the same issue, they don't really increase your ceiling enough to make a Brown for Beal/KAT trade worth it assuming of course that Brown ends the year as like 90 percent of the player he's been so far.

Real Plus Minus isnt a perfect stat, but it is interesting if you just want to get a rough idea of where a player is. If I asked you who the worst PG is among Defensive RPM was last year you probably say Trae Young, he was clearly awful. You' be right. Well Bradley Beal was 138 out of 138 last year amongst SG's and KAT was 72 out of 72 amongst Centers. Now I don't think those guys are literally the worst defensive players at their position, but they are clearly below average and that is especially problematic when Beal would be playing next to Kemba Walker (not a good defender) and KAT is a Center (the most important defensive position).

If you want to actually win something it has to be based off ADDING A THIRD GUY to Brown/Tatum an then upgrading your depth with the TPE/young guys improving. The best way for that to happen is Kemba come back, looks healthy and balls out, then you flip him this summer to one of these teams with a ton of cap space (but no real free agents options left besides Oladipo) for assets which you combine with your own for a third star.

Putting aside the Celtics perspective, I also dont know why MIN would trade a guy with 4 years left on his deal for another guy with... 4 years left on his deal. That doesn't really solve the "I'm afraid our star will leave issue for them does it?

Defensive RPM is pretty rough though, Duncan Robinson had the best defensive RPM amongst SG’s last year. Jaylen was 37th amongst SG’s as well, which is garbage lol.

All defensive impact stats are pretty flawed. I like PIPM the most, but it’s not going to be free this season, which really sucks. Beals defense has been a disaster for a few years now, but I think with less of a burden offensively, he can be average. Him and Kemba is a bad, bad defensive backcourt though.

Towns is a tough case, the franchise is such a disaster that I have a hard time getting a good gauge on him.

I agree with your general premise, DRPM isn't perfect, no advanced defense stat is. But I would counter that with two points.

1) These arent cases where a stat says a guy is below average, the stat says they are DEAD LAST. Even if its off by some order of a magnitude its really hard to say those guys weren't at least below average last year.

2) The eye test (as measured by the opinion of experts i generally trust like Nate Duncan, Zach Lowe, ect) matches the stat. I believe I've heard the word putrid used to describe Beals defense. Talk of KATS defense usually ends with a podcaster sighing in frustration. I'm not comfortable relying on those guys to be even average.

All of that is fine, but when you already have one bad defender you'd be paring them with and you' have to give up one or two of your three best defenders it feels like a situation where your ceiling just doesn't change all that much. Again, you want to have bad defenders like that on your team it needs to be sandwiched between good defenders like Brown/Smart/Tatum and replacing the bad one in Kemba.

[SLCceltic]

No thanks giving up a 1st round pick for a pj tucker rental as I don’t wanna pay him moving forward what he will want. All set on oladipo.

Draft picks for a guy whose oft injured and if he plays great for us we have to max and hope he stays he stays healthy?.....that’s if he doesn’t bolt.

Save the picks in case we wanna make one of these ridiculous all in moves and or need to attach them to kemba if his knee implodes not on a 35 year old who would help but not move the needle or dipo whose 1 foot out the door to Miami and the other foot in the surgery room

PJs value is about 3 2nds we can happily absorb his salary with part of the tpe .. he is shooting 52% from 3 so far this season, no reason to think he would not fit SEAMLESSLY here and be a perfect starter with kemba Jays & TT .... would play well with Smart also !

Right and if it’s for 2Nd rounders sure but one of the responses was to a post that said he’s gettable for a 1st rounder and I’m all set on that and also it’s been noted houston is holding out until the deadline for a contender to get desperate and offer a 1st. For 2nd round picks? Sure.

I would happily give up pick #30 for him this year !

[reload141]

Wiggins has started to really emerge defensively... sure he has Green there which is an added bonus, but guy has been improving on that end... maybe it's just a Minnesota thing?

[keevsnick1]

I think Beal and KAT have the same issue, they don't really increase your ceiling enough to make a Brown for Beal/KAT trade worth it assuming of course that Brown ends the year as like 90 percent of the player he's been so far.

Real Plus Minus isnt a perfect stat, but it is interesting if you just want to get a rough idea of where a player is. If I asked you who the worst PG is among Defensive RPM was last year you probably say Trae Young, he was clearly awful. You' be right. Well Bradley Beal was 138 out of 138 last year amongst SG's and KAT was 72 out of 72 amongst Centers. Now I don't think those guys are literally the worst defensive players at their position, but they are clearly below average and that is especially problematic when Beal would be playing next to Kemba Walker (not a good defender) and KAT is a Center (the most important defensive position).

If you want to actually win something it has to be based off ADDING A THIRD GUY to Brown/Tatum an then upgrading your depth with the TPE/young guys improving. The best way for that to happen is Kemba come back, looks healthy and balls out, then you flip him this summer to one of these teams with a ton of cap space (but no real free agents options left besides Oladipo) for assets which you combine with your own for a third star.

Putting aside the Celtics perspective, I also dont know why MIN would trade a guy with 4 years left on his deal for another guy with... 4 years left on his deal. That doesn't really solve the "I'm afraid our star will leave issue for them does it?

Defensive RPM is pretty rough though, Duncan Robinson had the best defensive RPM amongst SG’s last year. Jaylen was 37th amongst SG’s as well, which is garbage lol.

All defensive impact stats are pretty flawed. I like PIPM the most, but it’s not going to be free this season, which really sucks. Beals defense has been a disaster for a few years now, but I think with less of a burden offensively, he can be average. Him and Kemba is a bad, bad defensive backcourt though.

Towns is a tough case, the franchise is such a disaster that I have a hard time getting a good gauge on him. I’m with you that adding to Tatum/Jaylen is the ideal scenario, need Kemba to show that his knee is healthy.

Assuming hypothetically for **** and giggles what’s your package to get beal if it means adding him to brown and Tatum and in your opinion is that a “super team” that’s good enough

Is your question Beal/Tatum/Brown good enough to win a title? I think it MIGHT be.

It wouldn't be favored over say the Nets or Lakers next year, but with a little luck i think it could win it all IF you're able to surround them with the right kind of guys using the TPE and IF Tatum/Brown both get a little better next this than they are this year.

I think its a trio that fits very well, two wings and an elite shot creating guard is pretty easy to build around. Its still young with Beal at 27, Brown at 24 and Tatum at 22. Beal may actually resign because we have one of his friends locked up long term already, an getting Beal probably increases your odds of Tatum on his next deal as well. So I like our ability to keep it together relatively long term.

But ya, a lot needs to happen for it to be an option. But its all things that COULD happen. And Washington is a terrible franchise, and if you can you should always try to make trades with terrible franchises.

[Bleeding Green]

Imagine not wanting to trade for the greatest shooting big in NBA history, in his prime, because you think he's soft. What, he has one injury and now he's soft? I **** hate bigs and I would trade anyone but Tatum for KAT.

Actually it has nothing to do with injury- I think he plays with no passion, little emotion, gets by on sheer talent and doesn’t have that killer mentality. Don’t know if he ever will. I think he’s soft bc I’ve seen guards and other get switched onto him and take him out of the game. He also let jimmy butler completely emasculate him in practice.

Now would I not trade brown for him? No I’d take KAT but I’m not screaming for him like I do a former mvp, 3 time mvp 2nd place finisher, top 25 of all time level player whose arguably the greatest scorer ever. No.

Give me all the soft future hall of famers and Marcus Smart and I'll win a dozen championships.

[jmr07019]

Kemba to a third team
Third team sends some asset to Washington
Pritchard, Romeo, Nesmith, 3 Boston Firsts, 2 pick swaps

Smart / Teague
Beal
Brown / Semi
Tatum / Grant
Rob Williams / Theis / Thompson

If Rob can emerge as even an average starting center that's pretty stacked

[Ernest]

Kemba to a third team
Third team sends some asset to Washington
Pritchard, Romeo, Nesmith, 3 Boston Firsts, 2 pick swaps

Smart / Teague
Beal
Brown / Semi
Tatum / Grant
Rob Williams / Theis / Thompson

If Rob can emerge as even an average starting center that's pretty stacked

That's a huge offer. Arguably more than the next just gave up. Is Beal really that much better than Walker? Not being snarky, I only watch Cs games and the finals so I've only seen him play a handful of times. Seems to me we can only trade in all our picks like that one time, so we better make sure we get the right guy.

[BK_2020]

We can add Derozan for a SnT and get an older Beal with better D.

[MagicBagley18]

Kemba to a third team
Third team sends some asset to Washington
Pritchard, Romeo, Nesmith, 3 Boston Firsts, 2 pick swaps

Smart / Teague
Beal
Brown / Semi
Tatum / Grant
Rob Williams / Theis / Thompson

If Rob can emerge as even an average starting center that's pretty stacked

That's a huge offer. Arguably more than the next just gave up. Is Beal really that much better than Walker? Not being snarky, I only watch Cs games and the finals so I've only seen him play a handful of times. Seems to me we can only trade in all our picks like that one time, so we better make sure we get the right guy.

That move is an all in kill shot type deal, so is he worth that? In a vacuum absolutely no way. but the caveat is your giving all that away so you can keep Jaylen brown so it’s essentially a beal and brown trade deal. He also re- signs so you’re getting a 28 yr old in his prime locked up for 4 years paired with a 23 and 24 year old and creating a super team.

It’s all moot because there’s like a 2% chance it happens but yea I mean to pair beal with the jays that’s the price it’ll take

[jmr07019]

Kemba to a third team
Third team sends some asset to Washington
Pritchard, Romeo, Nesmith, 3 Boston Firsts, 2 pick swaps

Smart / Teague
Beal
Brown / Semi
Tatum / Grant
Rob Williams / Theis / Thompson

If Rob can emerge as even an average starting center that's pretty stacked

That's a huge offer. Arguably more than the next just gave up. Is Beal really that much better than Walker? Not being snarky, I only watch Cs games and the finals so I've only seen him play a handful of times. Seems to me we can only trade in all our picks like that one time, so we better make sure we get the right guy.

I'm not 100% sure either but his age and relationship with Tatum make him appealing. He's also the likely the next big name to get moved. I guess the point is we can make an offer like that while still keep Smart, Brown, Tatum and Rob. Hopefully we can get Nesmith, Romeo some minutes and build their value. Ditto Grant and PP. Being able to keep Smart and Rob in addition to Tatum and Brown is huge.

[Tatumfor2]

Yea I mean listen If he has a fire lit under his ass he’d dominate and yes I’d do the deal but I’m not sitting here pounding the table for him. Harden is in a different stratosphere- even ainge acknowledged that talking about passing on the harden trade and why it was difficult.

I just have a feeling and I hope I’m wrong we are gonna be all in on beal which I’m curious if people here who harden bc he was an empty stat no defense guy will keep that same energy.

I wanted beal for brown but I’m against it now but I realize it would be hypocritical of me to scream Bloody Mary against it if ainge feels that’s the best move after saying he should have moved brown already.

I’ll get yelled at, but I’d trade Jaylen/Smart for Towns in a heartbeat.

I didn’t say I wouldn’t do it. Just not gonna sit here and post 400x about it like I did for harden lol

[captain green]

Heartbeat in a heart beat eh? Thank the heavens you are not our gm. We have the leverage not the wolves brown alone can get more than Kat

[Feed Your Head]

Heartbeat in a heart beat eh? Thank the heavens you are not our gm. We have the leverage not the wolves brown alne can get more than Kat

Nah lol.

I would rather keep Smart in this hypothetical scenerio that won’t happen. But Jaylen and a first for Towns? Easy yes.