Rajon Rondo Traded To The Mavericks.

[sam_I_am]

Paul Pierce was pretty uninspired looking from 2003-2007. Even future Hall of Famers look disinterested when on a hopeless losing team.

Dirk is not a first team all NBA superstar anymore. Dallas has a veteran and talented team but lets not act like Rondo was sent to the 2008 Celtics all over again. He is helping them win. His impact on the defensive effort of that team has been huge despite the fact that his individual defensive rating is the same as here in Boston. Dallas is 7-2 with him, the hottest team in the West and has won 6 in a row. The Celtics are in free fall and the effort since Rondo's leadership vaccuum has been horrible.

Rondo did not carry the team to its title in 2008 - that is true. But during the spirited runs in 2009 (sans KG), 2010 and 2012 he was the best player on the team. The disaster that was 2013 after his ACL showed how badly a team led by KG and PP without Rondo really was.

Rondo flopped in his max salary drive here in Boston. But he is a really good player who despite glaring flaws makes a good team a hell of a lot better. Sucks to see so called Celtics fans who reveled in the team success that he was an instrumental part of give him so little credit.

[rev]

Have some respect for Rajon man. For all of his flaws, he served our team well through our ups and downs. It's unfortunate that some people just have the need to trash people once they're not on their side anymore. That's a terrible approach in general for your societal life.

Try using your head a little bit - don't be a dumb fan. Rondo clearly was playing at low effort levels here - not caring about winning or losing - mostly trying to amuse himself but getting triple doubles. Reminds me of Wilt who decided for one year he was going to rack up assists.

Some guys have a strong sense of entitlement - and don't give a **** half the time. Rondo was one of those guys. There are ALOT of NBA players like that - I'd say most guys. You don't root for them though - just like you don't really root for Rasheed Wallace even though he was tremendously talented.

I root for guys who leave it out on the court and bring it every single night. I like guys who sacrifice individual glory for team glory. If scoring more hurts your triple double chances - then so what - score more if it helps the team. Rondo has never been a team first guy. People were confused because he racked up assists but assists are just like any other stat - they aren't always team first stats. Sometimes your team needs scoring.

If fairness to Rondo - he was probably play at 50 - 70 percent capability most nights. I don't think Green is doing much better in that regard. Like I said there are LOTS of guys like that in the NBA.

How about our organization failing Rondo instead and us as fans? I didn't see any "fireworks" or somekind of a quality addition in the offseason... .
Do you have any trustworthy inside source that we didn't try to tank last season and we aren't playing for a good draftpick this season aswell as it's better suited for this teams future than a first round playoff exit? If your management isn't setting any example to win by adding quality players, why the heck should the players do so? To risk injuries in a meaningless season, which could affect their career for the future? Winners get frustated if they are not put in a situation to win and i don't blame them. Rondo is a winner.
I root for guys who leave it out on the court and bring it when it matters. And i don't recall Rondo not brining in the playoffs.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Did everyone forget the pout job Rondo pulled in 2011 after the Celtics traded his BFF? The guy doesn't bring it every night, even when he was surrounded by good teammates. You'd think he would have went balls out this season considering it was his contract year, but nope.

[soxfan2003]

From my vantage point, it is unfortunate to see some Celtics fans give players like KG, Pierce and even RA less credit than they deserve and that is what inevitably happens when Rondo or any other player get too much credit. Most Rondo's critics like me are saying he was a very good player at his best but just not great. No crime in being a very good starting NBA player at any position.

I often said Rondo was overrated but during his 4 best years with the Celtics(2008-9 until 2011-12) he was (on average) a very good starting PG that more often than not fit in well with those teams. Yes Rondo had some excellent playoff series where he exceeded "very good" but some other series where he wasn't very good at all. I have all 3 members of the Big 3 as more valuable basketball players from 2008-9 until 2010-11. By 2011-12 Rondo had surpassed Ray Allen, batting injuries and obviously age, and post season Pierce. I don't think regular season Rondo with the Celtics ever surpassed regular season PP. Just looking at the numbers is unfair to RA/PP at times since there is a difference between being guarded by prime Lebron James or being doubled and being left open. And just looking at the numbers is always unfair to KG since he gets no stats for his stellar rim protection during that time period other than the occasional block.

Maybe Pierce looked uninspired/frustrated from his facial expressions at times but he played inspired from 2003 to 2007. His combined aggregate offensive/defensive RAPM data was better than Kobe Bryant for something like around a 10 year regular season stretch that includes 2003-2007 and I do not think PP was capable of doing that without impressive consistent regular season effort. Consistent effort doesn't mean you will always shoot the 3 ball well and Pierce's worst season offensively was when he didn't shoot the 3 ball well.

I completely agree that Dirk is not a first team NBA player anymore but Dallas before the Rondo trade was winning more than last year and it wasn't just about Dirk.

[exculpatory]

From my vantage point, it is unfortunate to see some Celtics fans give players like KG, Pierce and even RA less credit than they deserve and that is what inevitably happens when Rondo or any other player get too much credit. Most of Rondo's critics like me are saying he was a very good player at his best but just not great. No crime in being a very good starting NBA player at any position.

I often said Rondo was overrated, but during his 4 best years with the Celtics (2008-9 until 2011-12) he was (on average) a very good starting PG who more often than not fit in well with those teams. Yes Rondo had some excellent playoff series where he exceeded "very good", but some other series where he wasn't very good at all.

I have all 3 members of the Big 3 as more valuable basketball players from 2008-9 until 2010-11. By 2011-12 Rondo had surpassed Ray Allen, batting injuries and obviously age, and post season Pierce. I don't think regular season Rondo with the Celtics ever surpassed regular season PP. Just looking at the numbers is unfair to RA/PP at times since there is a difference between being guarded by prime Lebron James or being doubled VS being left open. And just looking at the numbers is always unfair to KG since he gets no stats for his stellar rim protection during that time period other than the occasional block.

Maybe Pierce looked uninspired/frustrated from his facial expressions at times but he played inspired from 2003 to 2007. His combined aggregate offensive/defensive RAPM data was better than Kobe Bryant for something like around a 10 year regular season stretch that includes 2003-2007 and I do not think PP was capable of doing that without impressive consistent regular season effort.

I completely agree that Dirk is not a first team NBA player anymore, but Dallas before the Rondo trade was winning more than last year and it wasn't just about Dirk.

I also disagree with some of what my friend Sam wrote above.

And I mostly agree with what my friend Soxfan wrote in response to Sam.

Rondo, all things considered, definitely was a "very good" PG between 2008-09 & 2011-12 - who definitely excelled during several PO series. Period. He certainly deserves credit & my appreciation, BUT he has been overhyped & overrated.

Beyond Paul's brilliant 2007-08 RS & MVP PO run in the spring of 2008, all things considered, Paul was a much more valuable Celtic than Rondo during the 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11, & 2011-12 seasons. During the 2012 PO run, after a truly vintage first round VS Atlanta, Paul played the remainder of the POs on one leg. Otherwise, we would indeed have beaten the Heat in the ECF - given how well Rondo played in that particular series.

Sam, take a look at the Celtics record in 2/2013 & 3/2013 AFTER Rondo went down & BEFORE KG got hurt again in late 3/2013. Paul freaking Pierce played point forward & put up numbers ONLY surpassed by freaking LeBron leading the Celtics to a DRAMATIC turnaround SANS Rondo. (Absent LeBron, Paul would have been POTM for BOTH months.). Then yes, Paul pooped out because of injury, exhaustion & intense PO D on a NON-point guard, & the Celtics collapsed. And PO Rondo was indeed missed. But that Celtic team in Feb-March led by an All Pro Paul Pierce sans Rondo was OUTSTANDING.

[GuyClinch]

Did everyone forget the pout job Rondo pulled in 2011 after the Celtics traded his BFF? The guy doesn't bring it every night, even when he was surrounded by good teammates. You'd think he would have went balls out this season considering it was his contract year, but nope.

Rondo always needed motivation. It's just who he is. He didn't even bring it academically - getting mediocre grades in school despite being considered smart. I understand his attitude. The strange attitude is the guys who pretend its a life and death situation and they play like mad men in meaningless games. I still root for those guys.

Rondo is one of those guys who might have been to smart for his own good. Did he decide to tank a bit because his agent was saying a trade to Dallas was possible? You can bet he did.. His agent likely told him that Dallas didn't have ALOT to trade outside of pick - and Rondo helped made it happen.

I have little doubt that this kind of stuff happens all the time in the NBA. That doesn't mean I have to like it.

[DarkAzcura]

Sam, take a look at the Celtics record in 2/2013 & 3/2013 AFTER Rondo went down & BEFORE KG got hurt again in late 3/2013. Paul freaking Pierce played point forward & put up numbers ONLY surpassed by freaking LeBron leading the Celtics to a DRAMATIC turnaround SANS Rondo. (Absent LeBron, Paul would have been POTM for BOTH months.). Then yes, Paul pooped out because of injury, exhaustion & intense PO D on a NON-point guard, & the Celtics collapsed. And PO Rondo was indeed missed. But that Celtic team in Feb-March led by an All Pro Paul Pierce sans Rondo was OUTSTANDING.

No, it wasn't. This 2012-2013 hub-bub is the most overstated argument held against Rondo. I don't even understand why people have to explain it to this day. That team was streaky as all hell.

Lost 4 - with Rondo
Won 6 - with Rondo
Lost 6 - with Rondo
Won 6 - without Rondo

Two weeks later

Won 5 - without Rondo

10 days later

Lost 5 - without Rondo

We were not better without Rondo in 2012-2013, though, Pierce stepping up his game was pretty freakin' awesome. I just want people to stop bringing this point up to go against Rondo. It ignores so many of the other real reasons as to why the Celtics were streaky that year.

[GuyClinch]

We were not better without Rondo in 2012-2013, though, Pierce stepping up his game was pretty freakin' awesome. I just want people to stop bringing this point up to go against Rondo. It ignores so many of the other real reasons as to why the Celtics were streaky that year.

That's a boldfaced lie. The Celtics were won games at a higher rate without Rondo and were better in several statistics. The fact that they were streaky is a non-sequitur. All NBA teams are streaky - what does that have to do with the argument that the Celtics were better without Rondo? Absolutely nothing and you know it. They were better without Rondo. Deal with it. They don't seem to be much worse this year either - and the Mavs sure the heck aren't much better. Blown out by the lowly Pistons at home. LMAO.

[exculpatory]

We were not better without Rondo in 2012-2013, though, Pierce stepping up his game was pretty freakin' awesome. I just want people to stop bringing this point up to go against Rondo. It ignores so many of the other real reasons as to why the Celtics were streaky that year.

That's a boldfaced lie. The Celtics won games at a higher rate without Rondo and were better in several statistics. The fact that they were streaky is a non-sequitur. All NBA teams are streaky - what does that have to do with the argument that the Celtics were better without Rondo? Absolutely nothing and you know it. They were better without Rondo. Deal with it. They don't seem to be much worse this year either - and the Mavs sure the heck aren't much better. Blown out by the lowly Pistons at home. LMAO.

For Dark Azcura:

Facts:

Rondo blew out his ACL on Fri 1/25/2013.

Between 1/27/2013 (Miami) & 3/16/2013:

Record 16-5 (one of the best records in the NBA because of All Pro play/leadership by Paul Pierce playing point forward - supported by inspired defensive play by KG/Avery, & a very good stretch by Benzo) - SANS Rondo.

Paul Pierce in those 21 games: 18 PPG on 45% overall & 42% from 3 & 63% TS% & 7.7RPG & 6.6APG & 3 Trip Dubs.

On 3/16/2013, KG gets hurt, & the RS ends badly. Team collapses in the POs VS the Knicks. At age 35 1/2, Paul was injured, exhausted & could not handle the increased on-the-ball defensive intensity of the POs as the primary ball handler as a NON-point guard. To be fair & balanced, PO Rondo WAS missed.

[165bows]

Sam, take a look at the Celtics record in 2/2013 & 3/2013 AFTER Rondo went down & BEFORE KG got hurt again in late 3/2013. Paul freaking Pierce played point forward & put up numbers ONLY surpassed by freaking LeBron leading the Celtics to a DRAMATIC turnaround SANS Rondo. (Absent LeBron, Paul would have been POTM for BOTH months.). Then yes, Paul pooped out because of injury, exhaustion & intense PO D on a NON-point guard, & the Celtics collapsed. And PO Rondo was indeed missed. But that Celtic team in Feb-March led by an All Pro Paul Pierce sans Rondo was OUTSTANDING.

No, it wasn't. This 2012-2013 hub-bub is the most overstated argument held against Rondo. I don't even understand why people have to explain it to this day. That team was streaky as all hell.

Lost 4 - with Rondo
Won 6 - with Rondo
Lost 6 - with Rondo
Won 6 - without Rondo

Two weeks later

Won 5 - without Rondo

10 days later

Lost 5 - without Rondo

We were not better without Rondo in 2012-2013, though, Pierce stepping up his game was pretty freakin' awesome. I just want people to stop bringing this point up to go against Rondo. It ignores so many of the other real reasons as to why the Celtics were streaky that year.

Yeah it's silly. Were they better at times without Rondo? Sure. Were they better without him in the playoffs against the Knicks? If you think that then it's tough to take anything else with much credibility.

[DarkAzcura]

We were not better without Rondo in 2012-2013, though, Pierce stepping up his game was pretty freakin' awesome. I just want people to stop bringing this point up to go against Rondo. It ignores so many of the other real reasons as to why the Celtics were streaky that year.

That's a boldfaced lie. The Celtics were won games at a higher rate without Rondo and were better in several statistics. The fact that they were streaky is a non-sequitur. All NBA teams are streaky - what does that have to do with the argument that the Celtics were better without Rondo? Absolutely nothing and you know it. They were better without Rondo. Deal with it. They don't seem to be much worse this year either - and the Mavs sure the heck aren't much better. Blown out by the lowly Pistons at home. LMAO.

No they weren't, lol. This is ridiculous. You are just putting the Celtics' streakiness to the side because it doesn't support your obvious anti-Rondo agenda that you have had for years. Is it really so hard for some of you to be more reasonable in your evaluations of Rondo? Wow the Mavs lost a game to a hot Pistons team. Must be the end of the world and a sure sign that Rondo has no impact on the Mavs. Give me a break. Since the trade, all of the people who used to slight Rondo and say "well, I think he's good, but..." are coming out with their true colors. It's embarrassing. Stick to evaluations outside of Rondo, because you are one of my favorite posters Clinch (and ex too), but when you guys talk about Rondo, it's like he kicked your dog or something.

The Celtics were 3 games under .500 with Rondo and 3 games over .500 without Rondo. The rate is better, but to throw the Celtics streakiness out the window in the middle of the season when we incorporated more role players than ever into our system is disingenuous. Every NBA team is streaky to an extent, but show me a team that loses 4, wins 6, loses 6, and wins 6 all in a row. There were so many other reasons to the Celtics' struggles that year than just Rondo having trouble getting used to involving Lee, Green, Sully, and Terry in the offense. If the Rondo gets hurt three games earlier, there's a good chance our record with and without Rondo is the same. Some of you act like we turned into the Josh Smith-less Pistons after Rondo went down. Rivers' inability to utilize the talent he received from Ainge by shoehorning Terry and Lee into Ray Allen sets and Terry's decline are much larger reasons for the Celtics' fall in '12-'13 than one of the best playmakers in the game tearing his ACL.

EDIT: Also, I just noticed you said "they don't seem much worse this year.." Come on. There is a clear difference in the Celtics without Rondo this year. Green is inconsistent again. Fastbreak offense is down. Efficiency is down. The motion offense has almost fallen off a cliff. The Celtics were competing with the best teams in the league in November and could have just as easily been a +.500 team with how well they were executing on offense, and that's because of Rondo mainly. Remember all of those double digit leads we had and against top competition no less? That's not happening nearly as often now that Rondo is gone, but I also understand that the team is undergoing an identity shift and needs to figure out a new strong suit now that the offense isn't working like a well-oiled machine. That's why last night's game was so nice. They need to play with more energy on defense to make up for the loss of Rondo. It was an encouraging sign, and if they start winning some games playing this style, this season will continue to be fun. Let's not forget how well the Celtics played offensively in November and early December, though.

[exculpatory]

We were not better without Rondo in 2012-2013, though, Pierce stepping up his game was pretty freakin' awesome. I just want people to stop bringing this point up to go against Rondo. It ignores so many of the other real reasons as to why the Celtics were streaky that year.

That's a boldfaced lie. The Celtics were won games at a higher rate without Rondo and were better in several statistics. The fact that they were streaky is a non-sequitur. All NBA teams are streaky - what does that have to do with the argument that the Celtics were better without Rondo? Absolutely nothing and you know it. They were better without Rondo. Deal with it. They don't seem to be much worse this year either - and the Mavs sure the heck aren't much better. Blown out by the lowly Pistons at home. LMAO.

No they weren't, lol. This is ridiculous. You are just putting the Celtics' streakiness to the side because it doesn't support your obvious anti-Rondo agenda that you have had for years. Is it really so hard for some of you to be more reasonable in your evaluations of Rondo? Wow the Mavs lost a game to a hot Pistons team. Must be the end of the world and a sure sign that Rondo has no impact on the Mavs. Give me a break. Since the trade, all of the people who used to slight Rondo and say "well, I think he's good, but..." are coming out with their true colors. It's embarrassing. Stick to evaluations outside of Rondo, because you are one of my favorite posters Clinch (and ex too), but when you guys talk about Rondo, it's like he kicked your dog or something.

The Celtics were 3 games under .500 with Rondo and 3 games over .500 without Rondo. The rate is better, but to throw the Celtics streakiness out the window in the middle of the season when we incorporated more role players than ever into our system is disingenuous. Every NBA team is streaky to an extent, but show me a team that loses 4, wins 6, loses 6, and wins 6 all in a row. There were so many other reasons to the Celtics' struggles that year than just Rondo having trouble getting used to involving Lee, Green, Sully, and Terry in the offense. If the Rondo gets hurt three games earlier, there's a good chance our record with and without Rondo is the same. Some of you act like we turned into the Josh Smith-less Pistons after Rondo went down. Rivers' inability to utilize the talent he received from Ainge by shoehorning Terry and Lee into Ray Allen sets and Terry's decline are much larger reasons for the Celtics' fall in '12-'13 than one of the best playmakers in the game tearing his ACL.

EDIT: Also, I just noticed you said "they don't seem much worse this year.." Come on. There is a clear difference in the Celtics without Rondo this year. Green is inconsistent again. Fastbreak offense is down. Efficiency is down. The motion offense has almost fallen off a cliff. The Celtics were competing with the best teams in the league in November and could have just as easily been a +.500 team with how well they were executing on offense, and that's because of Rondo mainly. Remember all of those double digit leads we had and against top competition no less? That's not happening nearly as often now that Rondo is gone, but I also understand that the team is undergoing an identity shift and needs to figure out a new strong suit now that the offense isn't working like a well-oiled machine. That's why last night's game was so nice. They need to play with more energy on defense to make up for the loss of Rondo.

Dark, LOL:

Did you even read my last post post about the 16-5 superlative record immediately after Rondo went down - led by Paul's All Pro play during those 21 games? That team was cooking on all cylinders for those TWENTY ONE consecutive games - SANS RR.

Then KG got hurt in late 3/2013 & Paul ran out of steam & the team collapsed in the POs. And Rondo WAS indeed missed in the POs. LOL.

[DarkAzcura]

That's a boldfaced lie. The Celtics were won games at a higher rate without Rondo and were better in several statistics. The fact that they were streaky is a non-sequitur. All NBA teams are streaky - what does that have to do with the argument that the Celtics were better without Rondo? Absolutely nothing and you know it. They were better without Rondo. Deal with it. They don't seem to be much worse this year either - and the Mavs sure the heck aren't much better. Blown out by the lowly Pistons at home. LMAO.

No they weren't, lol. This is ridiculous. You are just putting the Celtics' streakiness to the side because it doesn't support your obvious anti-Rondo agenda that you have had for years. Is it really so hard for some of you to be more reasonable in your evaluations of Rondo? Wow the Mavs lost a game to a hot Pistons team. Must be the end of the world and a sure sign that Rondo has no impact on the Mavs. Give me a break. Since the trade, all of the people who used to slight Rondo and say "well, I think he's good, but..." are coming out with their true colors. It's embarrassing. Stick to evaluations outside of Rondo, because you are one of my favorite posters Clinch (and ex too), but when you guys talk about Rondo, it's like he kicked your dog or something.

The Celtics were 3 games under .500 with Rondo and 3 games over .500 without Rondo. The rate is better, but to throw the Celtics streakiness out the window in the middle of the season when we incorporated more role players than ever into our system is disingenuous. Every NBA team is streaky to an extent, but show me a team that loses 4, wins 6, loses 6, and wins 6 all in a row. There were so many other reasons to the Celtics' struggles that year than just Rondo having trouble getting used to involving Lee, Green, Sully, and Terry in the offense. If the Rondo gets hurt three games earlier, there's a good chance our record with and without Rondo is the same. Some of you act like we turned into the Josh Smith-less Pistons after Rondo went down. Rivers' inability to utilize the talent he received from Ainge by shoehorning Terry and Lee into Ray Allen sets and Terry's decline are much larger reasons for the Celtics' fall in '12-'13 than one of the best playmakers in the game tearing his ACL.

EDIT: Also, I just noticed you said "they don't seem much worse this year.." Come on. There is a clear difference in the Celtics without Rondo this year. Green is inconsistent again. Fastbreak offense is down. Efficiency is down. The motion offense has almost fallen off a cliff. The Celtics were competing with the best teams in the league in November and could have just as easily been a +.500 team with how well they were executing on offense, and that's because of Rondo mainly. Remember all of those double digit leads we had and against top competition no less? That's not happening nearly as often now that Rondo is gone, but I also understand that the team is undergoing an identity shift and needs to figure out a new strong suit now that the offense isn't working like a well-oiled machine. That's why last night's game was so nice. They need to play with more energy on defense to make up for the loss of Rondo.

Dark, LOL:

Did you even read my last post post about the 16-5 superlative record immediately after Rondo went down - led by Paul's All Pro play during those 21 games? That team was cooking on all cylinders for those TWENTY ONE consecutive games - SANS RR.

Then KG got hurt in late 3/2013 & Paul ran out of steam & the team collapsed in the POs. And Rondo WAS indeed missed in the POs. LOL.

I can just easily pick a random sample that makes Rondo look good and KG look bad and vice versa and so on. That season falls more on the coaching than it does the players in my opinion. It's an opinion I'll always hold about that season.

If you agree that Rondo was missed in the PO, then I don't really have much to say since you acknowledge that Rondo is a key difference maker. I have an issue with anyone who thinks the Celtics were overall a much better team without Rondo in 12-13. It's nonsensical.

EDIT: took out a chunk of my post, did my math wrong.

[Bad-Thoma]

Only Rajon could cause this much contention on the board.... even after being traded.

[DarkAzcura]

Only Rajon could cause this much contention on the board.... even after being traded.

That's honestly part of the reason I'm happy he is traded, heh..

[jmr07019]

Sam, take a look at the Celtics record in 2/2013 & 3/2013 AFTER Rondo went down & BEFORE KG got hurt again in late 3/2013. Paul freaking Pierce played point forward & put up numbers ONLY surpassed by freaking LeBron leading the Celtics to a DRAMATIC turnaround SANS Rondo. (Absent LeBron, Paul would have been POTM for BOTH months.). Then yes, Paul pooped out because of injury, exhaustion & intense PO D on a NON-point guard, & the Celtics collapsed. And PO Rondo was indeed missed. But that Celtic team in Feb-March led by an All Pro Paul Pierce sans Rondo was OUTSTANDING.

No, it wasn't. This 2012-2013 hub-bub is the most overstated argument held against Rondo. I don't even understand why people have to explain it to this day. That team was streaky as all hell.

Lost 4 - with Rondo
Won 6 - with Rondo
Lost 6 - with Rondo
Won 6 - without Rondo

Two weeks later

Won 5 - without Rondo

10 days later

Lost 5 - without Rondo

We were not better without Rondo in 2012-2013, though, Pierce stepping up his game was pretty freakin' awesome. I just want people to stop bringing this point up to go against Rondo. It ignores so many of the other real reasons as to why the Celtics were streaky that year.

I agree with you but people have already made up there minds and aren't here for an honest discussion. As you can see by Ex's troll like posting frequency they're only here to take cheap shots at a former Celtic player they claimed to have rooted for.

[ballup]

Only Rajon could cause this much contention on the board.... even after being traded.

Just imagine how much contention there will be when we are all discussing this era in 50 years.

[SMTBSI]

Only Rajon could cause this much contention on the board.... even after being traded.

Just imagine how much contention there will be when we are all discussing this era in 50 years.

"Could Rondo have been dominant in the modern era?!?!"

"No! He couldn't hit a 3 to save his life, there's no way he could keep up in a league where 4's are so important!"

"Yeah, but his hustle, defense, and how he raised his teammate's games would translate into any era!"

[exculpatory]

No they weren't, lol. This is ridiculous. You are just putting the Celtics' streakiness to the side because it doesn't support your obvious anti-Rondo agenda that you have had for years. Is it really so hard for some of you to be more reasonable in your evaluations of Rondo? Wow the Mavs lost a game to a hot Pistons team. Must be the end of the world and a sure sign that Rondo has no impact on the Mavs. Give me a break. Since the trade, all of the people who used to slight Rondo and say "well, I think he's good, but..." are coming out with their true colors. It's embarrassing. Stick to evaluations outside of Rondo, because you are one of my favorite posters Clinch (and ex too), but when you guys talk about Rondo, it's like he kicked your dog or something.

The Celtics were 3 games under .500 with Rondo and 3 games over .500 without Rondo. The rate is better, but to throw the Celtics streakiness out the window in the middle of the season when we incorporated more role players than ever into our system is disingenuous. Every NBA team is streaky to an extent, but show me a team that loses 4, wins 6, loses 6, and wins 6 all in a row. There were so many other reasons to the Celtics' struggles that year than just Rondo having trouble getting used to involving Lee, Green, Sully, and Terry in the offense. If the Rondo gets hurt three games earlier, there's a good chance our record with and without Rondo is the same. Some of you act like we turned into the Josh Smith-less Pistons after Rondo went down. Rivers' inability to utilize the talent he received from Ainge by shoehorning Terry and Lee into Ray Allen sets and Terry's decline are much larger reasons for the Celtics' fall in '12-'13 than one of the best playmakers in the game tearing his ACL.

EDIT: Also, I just noticed you said "they don't seem much worse this year.." Come on. There is a clear difference in the Celtics without Rondo this year. Green is inconsistent again. Fastbreak offense is down. Efficiency is down. The motion offense has almost fallen off a cliff. The Celtics were competing with the best teams in the league in November and could have just as easily been a +.500 team with how well they were executing on offense, and that's because of Rondo mainly. Remember all of those double digit leads we had and against top competition no less? That's not happening nearly as often now that Rondo is gone, but I also understand that the team is undergoing an identity shift and needs to figure out a new strong suit now that the offense isn't working like a well-oiled machine. That's why last night's game was so nice. They need to play with more energy on defense to make up for the loss of Rondo.

Dark, LOL:

Did you even read my last post post about the 16-5 superlative record immediately after Rondo went down - led by Paul's All Pro play during those 21 games? That team was cooking on all cylinders for those TWENTY ONE consecutive games - SANS RR.

Then KG got hurt in late 3/2013 & Paul ran out of steam & the team collapsed in the POs. And Rondo WAS indeed missed in the POs. LOL.

I can just as easily pick a random sample that makes Rondo look good and KG look bad and vice versa and so on. That season falls more on the coaching than it does the players in my opinion. It's an opinion I'll always hold about that season.

If you agree that Rondo was missed in the PO, then I don't really have much to say since you acknowledge that Rondo is a key difference maker. I have an issue with anyone who thinks the Celtics were overall a much better team without Rondo in 12-13. It's nonsensical.

EDIT: took out a chunk of my post, did my math wrong.

It wasn't a "random" sample. It was a SUBSTANTIAL TWENTY ONE consecutive game run immediately AFTER Rondo went down (wherein Paul played balls out All Pro supported by KG, AB & Benzo). It ended when KG got hurt in late 3/2013 & Paul pooped out due to exhaustion, his own injury & intense PO D he did not handle well because he is NOT a freaking point guard. That was the most meaningful stretch of the 12-13 season.

And yes, Rondo would have made a difference in the POs - taking over primary ball handling from Paul & letting him focus more on scoring.

[exculpatory]

Sam, take a look at the Celtics record in 2/2013 & 3/2013 AFTER Rondo went down & BEFORE KG got hurt again in late 3/2013. Paul freaking Pierce played point forward & put up numbers ONLY surpassed by freaking LeBron leading the Celtics to a DRAMATIC turnaround SANS Rondo. (Absent LeBron, Paul would have been POTM for BOTH months.). Then yes, Paul pooped out because of injury, exhaustion & intense PO D on a NON-point guard, & the Celtics collapsed. And PO Rondo was indeed missed. But that Celtic team in Feb-March led by an All Pro Paul Pierce sans Rondo was OUTSTANDING.

No, it wasn't. This 2012-2013 hub-bub is the most overstated argument held against Rondo. I don't even understand why people have to explain it to this day. That team was streaky as all hell.

Lost 4 - with Rondo
Won 6 - with Rondo
Lost 6 - with Rondo
Won 6 - without Rondo

Two weeks later

Won 5 - without Rondo

10 days later

Lost 5 - without Rondo

We were not better without Rondo in 2012-2013, though, Pierce stepping up his game was pretty freakin' awesome. I just want people to stop bringing this point up to go against Rondo. It ignores so many of the other real reasons as to why the Celtics were streaky that year.

I agree with you, but people have already made up their minds and aren't here for an honest discussion. As you can see by Ex's troll like posting frequency, they're only here to take cheap shots at a former Celtic player they claimed to have rooted for.

Baloney. Troll-like my butt. I posted documented/indisputable facts.

Do not twist what I wrote about that remarkable 16-5 stretch immediately after Rondo went down into anything else.

And I have acknowledged multiple times that Rondo's ball handling was missed in the POs when on-the-ball defensive intensity jacked up.