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Evan Turner best on wing, or at point?
By: Mark Murphy / Boston Herald | October 10, 2014

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The success of the Celtics’ wing players speaks volumes of Turner, who has started at small forward in Green’s absence. His contributions have been well-rounded, as he’s averaged 12 points and seven rebounds over two games.

But if versatility is his strength, especially in a Celtics scheme that needs to thrive in transition, it has also historically bounced Turner from one position to the next. Right now, he’s a small forward and backup point guard.

“I’m kind of wondering what’s going on with that, too, but all I can do is prepare and earn my minutes,” Turner said of what happens when Green returns at some point next week. “But I’m also looking forward to playing with Jeff, and figuring out where I fit.”

Bench, the end part

Dallas.

165bows wrote:Dallas.

LOL. I laughed more than I should then.

I think it's better to ask, who should you pair him up with?

I really don't get all this Turner bashing.

Turner is a bargain at his contract price and is a classic example of low risk/ high reward. Ainge bought low on him.

I for one hope he stays around. Turner was in two crap situations in the Tankland known as Philly and that dysfunctional Pacers locker room. He's hungry to prove himself, and we will be the beneficiaries of his numerous skills.

ballup wrote:I think it's better to ask, who should you pair him up with?

Great question.

I think he would mesh well with AB and Thornton, Green and Olynyk/Sully . Turner brings the ball up but guards the 3. AB , who then guards the 1, and Thornton as we'll as Green and KO will be spot up shooters at the arc. This leaves more space for Turner to penetrate, which he does well, and then either finish or dish.

rmal8852 wrote:I really don't get all this Turner bashing.

Turner is a bargain at his contract price and is a classic example of low risk/ high reward. Ainge bought low on him.

I for one hope he stays around. Turner was in two crap situations in the Tankland known as Philly and that dysfunctional Pacers locker room. He's hungry to prove himself, and we will be the beneficiaries of his numerous skills.

From my perspective I don't really think it is bashing. I just think he is not a fit with Rondo at all and Rondo is a much better player who I would rather keep.

I'd love to see him play well and turn into a solid trade chip, and advocated he deserved the opportunity to at least try to land the starting role with Rondo out.

Like how Houston signed Asik, used him as a starter, then role player, then when his role diminished he had enough value to land a potential solid lotto pick, that's what I'd like to see. And Dallas isn't a backwater, they are a much more competitive team that should be able to use a bigger, younger ball handler in the back court, and will have great spacing around him. Win-win-win.

165bows wrote:

rmal8852 wrote:I really don't get all this Turner bashing.

Turner is a bargain at his contract price and is a classic example of low risk/ high reward. Ainge bought low on him.

I for one hope he stays around. Turner was in two crap situations in the Tankland known as Philly and that dysfunctional Pacers locker room. He's hungry to prove himself, and we will be the beneficiaries of his numerous skills.

From my perspective I don't really think it is bashing. I just think he is not a fit with Rondo at all and Rondo is a much better player who I would rather keep.

I'd love to see him play well and turn into a solid trade chip, and advocated he deserved the opportunity to at least try to land the starting role with Rondo out.

Like how Houston signed Asik, used him as a starter, then role player, then when his role diminished he had enough value to land a potential solid lotto pick, that's what I'd like to see. And Dallas isn't a backwater, they are a much more competitive team that should be able to use a bigger, younger ball handler in the back court, and will have great spacing around him. Win-win-win.

I'll play along. What do you get back in a deal with Dallas then?

bucknersrevenge wrote:

165bows wrote:

rmal8852 wrote:I really don't get all this Turner bashing.

Turner is a bargain at his contract price and is a classic example of low risk/ high reward. Ainge bought low on him.

I for one hope he stays around. Turner was in two crap situations in the Tankland known as Philly and that dysfunctional Pacers locker room. He's hungry to prove himself, and we will be the beneficiaries of his numerous skills.

From my perspective I don't really think it is bashing. I just think he is not a fit with Rondo at all and Rondo is a much better player who I would rather keep.

I'd love to see him play well and turn into a solid trade chip, and advocated he deserved the opportunity to at least try to land the starting role with Rondo out.

Like how Houston signed Asik, used him as a starter, then role player, then when his role diminished he had enough value to land a potential solid lotto pick, that's what I'd like to see. And Dallas isn't a backwater, they are a much more competitive team that should be able to use a bigger, younger ball handler in the back court, and will have great spacing around him. Win-win-win.

I'll play along. What do you get back in a deal with Dallas then?

Felton and their protected first this year.

I know his contract runs into next year but I think it gets dumped cheaply as a small expiring next summer.

I just think they really need to land the guys they want in the upcoming drafts, and short of being able to rig the lotto, having a ton of picks ensures they get the best chance at their favorites. And if no big fish show up in FA, just eat Felton's deal as they will have plenty of space. I suppose it could also be Jameer Nelson, whoever looks most washed up.

He's a guard. He's a guard who can't shoot, but a guard nonetheless. He's just too skinny to defend modern-day SFs. We generally defended Melo well on Wednesday but when we got into trouble, it was Turner defending him. Now, Melo is a top-tier forward, but I think any SF worth his salt will just post ET up and bully their way to the hoop.

I've been very impressed with his vision so far in the preseason. He's clearly bought into the role of being a playmaker and his passing, especially to Olynyk, has been fun to watch. He sucks at finishing drives to the rim but that was his MO coming in. He just needs to not be a black hole as a shooter to be an effective player for this team - we are in dire need of guys who can break down their defender 1v1 and Turner is one of the few guys who can offer that.

PG

165bows wrote:

bucknersrevenge wrote:

165bows wrote:
From my perspective I don't really think it is bashing. I just think he is not a fit with Rondo at all and Rondo is a much better player who I would rather keep.

I'd love to see him play well and turn into a solid trade chip, and advocated he deserved the opportunity to at least try to land the starting role with Rondo out.

Like how Houston signed Asik, used him as a starter, then role player, then when his role diminished he had enough value to land a potential solid lotto pick, that's what I'd like to see. And Dallas isn't a backwater, they are a much more competitive team that should be able to use a bigger, younger ball handler in the back court, and will have great spacing around him. Win-win-win.

I'll play along. What do you get back in a deal with Dallas then?

Felton and their protected first this year.

I know his contract runs into next year but I think it gets dumped cheaply as a small expiring next summer.

I just think they really need to land the guys they want in the upcoming drafts, and short of being able to rig the lotto, having a ton of picks ensures they get the best chance at their favorites. And if no big fish show up in FA, just eat Felton's deal as they will have plenty of space. I suppose it could also be Jameer Nelson, whoever looks most washed up.

So Turner's deal is up in 2 years as well. So we trade for a worse player (or at least a player who fits the roster worse) all to get a protected first in the next draft? We have plenty of draft picks. I think under that scenario I'd rather keep the player. They have a mountain of picks for upcoming drafts they can consolidate to get guys though. I mean, if they liked a kid enough in the next draft and thought he was all that and a bag of chips and a 50 cent juice I'd be okay with consolidating 3 or 4 picks including a BK pick to move up and draft the guy. We have a ton of young talent anyway so we're obviously not going to add too much more. So let's say Danny is in love with Karl Towns or someone like that but we're too far back. I'd be okay with Danny consolidating a bunch of picks and a young player if need be to get him if Danny thought he could be a difference maker. That's what we acquired all these picks for in the first place.

Gomes3PC wrote:He's a guard. He's a guard who can't shoot, but a guard nonetheless. He's just too skinny to defend modern-day SFs. We generally defended Melo well on Wednesday but when we got into trouble, it was Turner defending him. Now, Melo is a top-tier forward, but I think any SF worth his salt will just post ET up and bully their way to the hoop.
I've been very impressed with his vision so far in the preseason. He's clearly bought into the role of being a playmaker and his passing, especially to Olynyk, has been fun to watch. He sucks at finishing drives to the rim but that was his MO coming in. He just needs to not be a black hole as a shooter to be an effective player for this team - we are in dire need of guys who can break down their defender 1v1 and Turner is one of the few guys who can offer that.

There's aren't a ton of "worth his salt" SFs in the league with the pure post game to do that to Turner. I actually like his defense moreso when his man is facing up than posting him up as you said and you're right on some occasions if he's getting bodied up, a guard may have to drop down and help but I'm confident Stevens will figure out how to handle those situations.

Like Crawford, playing Turner at PG hides his worst tendencies, or at least masks them behind the duties of the position. For Turner, that'd be overdribbling and poor spot up shooting. As Turner himself remarked, he's not that good off the ball. And since he's not quite good enough as a pure scorer to warrant lots of isolation and P&R opportunities that you'd have to give him if you played him at SG or SF, so that kind of makes him a PG in my eyes.

He can be a matchup nightmare and a real weapon at PG. It remains to be seen how well he can mesh with Rondo, and whether we can get him any minutes at backup PG with Smart and Rondo both healthy. But that's his best position and he could be a real difference maker for us off the bench.

He's not a PG. He's a SF who can run a few sets. I don't want him bringing the ball up the court. I don't want him thinking he's Rondo. I don't want him focused on his assist numbers. I want him attacking the hoop, finding the open man, hitting the mid range shot, and moving the ball on offense.

bucknersrevenge wrote:

Gomes3PC wrote:He's a guard. He's a guard who can't shoot, but a guard nonetheless. He's just too skinny to defend modern-day SFs. We generally defended Melo well on Wednesday but when we got into trouble, it was Turner defending him. Now, Melo is a top-tier forward, but I think any SF worth his salt will just post ET up and bully their way to the hoop.
I've been very impressed with his vision so far in the preseason. He's clearly bought into the role of being a playmaker and his passing, especially to Olynyk, has been fun to watch. He sucks at finishing drives to the rim but that was his MO coming in. He just needs to not be a black hole as a shooter to be an effective player for this team - we are in dire need of guys who can break down their defender 1v1 and Turner is one of the few guys who can offer that.

There's aren't a ton of "worth his salt" SFs in the league with the pure post game to do that to Turner. I actually like his defense moreso when his man is facing up than posting him up as you said and you're right on some occasions if he's getting bodied up, a guard may have to drop down and help but I'm confident Stevens will figure out how to handle those situations.

Just looking across the league, the following guys would abuse Turner on the block:

Lebron
Durant
Melo
Paul George
Nic Batum
Rudy Gay
Josh Smith
Paul Pierce
Kawhi Leonard
Luol Deng
DeMar Derozan
Joe Johnson
Jabari Parker

That's about a dozen guys just off the top of my head.

Chinese Basketball Association

He's best at the 2 - good size and quickness defensively, can use his strength to get to the rim or post up.

But I think it's going to hard for him to get minutes there over perimeter shooters AB and Thornton.

I think it's more likely we get him minutes at the 3, with Jeff getting a chunk of his minutes at the 4.

Gomes3PC wrote:

bucknersrevenge wrote:

Gomes3PC wrote:He's a guard. He's a guard who can't shoot, but a guard nonetheless. He's just too skinny to defend modern-day SFs. We generally defended Melo well on Wednesday but when we got into trouble, it was Turner defending him. Now, Melo is a top-tier forward, but I think any SF worth his salt will just post ET up and bully their way to the hoop.
I've been very impressed with his vision so far in the preseason. He's clearly bought into the role of being a playmaker and his passing, especially to Olynyk, has been fun to watch. He sucks at finishing drives to the rim but that was his MO coming in. He just needs to not be a black hole as a shooter to be an effective player for this team - we are in dire need of guys who can break down their defender 1v1 and Turner is one of the few guys who can offer that.

There's aren't a ton of "worth his salt" SFs in the league with the pure post game to do that to Turner. I actually like his defense moreso when his man is facing up than posting him up as you said and you're right on some occasions if he's getting bodied up, a guard may have to drop down and help but I'm confident Stevens will figure out how to handle those situations.

Just looking across the league, the following guys would abuse Turner on the block:

Lebron
Durant
Melo
Paul George
Nic Batum
Rudy Gay
Josh Smith
Paul Pierce
Kawhi Leonard
Luol Deng
DeMar Derozan
Joe Johnson
Jabari Parker

That's about a dozen guys just off the top of my head.

Alright. Well played. Though I do object to a few of those names. Batum does a lot of his damage facing up and from the perimeter.Smith isn't an SF anymore. At least he won't be playing it nearly as often. DeRozean may score well based on talent but I disagree that he is big enough to push Turner around. Those two are about the same size. And just to emphasize a point, you can find guys who are size wise bigger than he is, but most of them arent going to spend the majority their time in the post against him to exact the kind of advantage you may be suggesting. I just don't see that happening night in and night out. On the perimeter Turner has quick feet and quick hands and at 220 he can push back a little. Certainly enough to make dribble driving difficult. And he's not going to be matched up against any of these guys for 30 minutes a night anyway.