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As a cap-ignoramus, I would really appreciate a current review of the C's likely cap situation now that we know we have the #1 pick - assuming we keep it, which I'm certainly hoping we do. In particular, what are our options to create the space to sign a max free agent?

radcot wrote:As a cap-ignoramus, I would really appreciate a current review of the C's likely cap situation now that we know we have the #1 pick - assuming we keep it, which I'm certainly hoping we do. In particular, what are our options to create the space to sign a max free agent?

One of Smart, Bradley or Crowder has to go to fit Hayward. Bradley and Smart are the most likely due to the fact they become free agents after next season

CelticsBlog has a great breakdown here

TheBounceIsReal wrote:CelticsBlog has a great breakdown here

I know the guy who wrote that!

Smitty731 wrote:

TheBounceIsReal wrote:CelticsBlog has a great breakdown here

I know the guy who wrote that!

I hear he knows a lot of good dad jokes

So to piggy back on the original question and Smitty's article, how would/could a sign and trade work? Could we trade for Hayward rather than signing him outright like Miami did with LeBron?

Smittys article says we need to dump KO and 1 of Bradley, Smart, Crowder but I think we can get Hayward or we'd be offering him 3.5 mil short of the max.

I disagree with that take. First the estimates of the cap I saw were 102 mil. That gives you an extra million. Then I would dump Rozier and gain another .9 mil in cap space. Now you are about 1.5 mil from the max and offering Hayward about 6-8 millon less over 4 years. I think he would just sign with us instead of making us dump Bradley, Smart or Crowder. The whole reason he's coming here is to win games with those 3, IT and Horford.

jmr07019 wrote:Smittys article says we need to dump KO and 1 of Bradley, Smart, Crowder but I think we can get Hayward or we'd be offering him 3.5 mil short of the max.

I disagree with that take. First the estimates of the cap I saw were 102 mil. That gives you an extra million. Then I would dump Rozier and gain another .9 mil in cap space. Now you are about 1.5 mil from the max and offering Hayward about 6-8 millon less over 4 years. I think he would just sign with us instead of making us dump Bradley, Smart or Crowder. The whole reason he's coming here is to win games with those 3, IT and Horford.

The NBA came out with a more recent projection of the salary cap at 101 million, not 102. They need to move Bradley or Smart to play Fultz anyway, shouldn't be much of an issue

Homerclease wrote:

jmr07019 wrote:Smittys article says we need to dump KO and 1 of Bradley, Smart, Crowder but I think we can get Hayward or we'd be offering him 3.5 mil short of the max.

I disagree with that take. First the estimates of the cap I saw were 102 mil. That gives you an extra million. Then I would dump Rozier and gain another .9 mil in cap space. Now you are about 1.5 mil from the max and offering Hayward about 6-8 millon less over 4 years. I think he would just sign with us instead of making us dump Bradley, Smart or Crowder. The whole reason he's coming here is to win games with those 3, IT and Horford.

The NBA came out with a more recent projection of the salary cap at 101 million, not 102. They need to move Bradley or Smart to play Fultz anyway, shouldn't be much of an issue

Would love to get 7 from Minni or 8 from NYK for Bradley. He'd be a great fit in minni and he's still young enough to be contribute for another 6-7 years. NYK I can see making a panic win now move. I'd take Markkanen who I see as a big upgrade over KO.

There are a few options, it will depend on potential return but anyone of smart, crowder or Bradley could be gone. I think the best option would be to trade smart for future first. You avoid spending money for his new contract and give minutes to rozier.

It/fultz
Ab/rozier
Hayward/brown
Crowder/
Horford/zizic

One veteran minimum contract pf and we would be set.

Horford/Crowder/Zizic as our front line merely buttressed by a minimum contract power forward doesn't sound so appealing to me. I can easily say goodbye to Amir, Zeller, and Jerebko, but losing KO and not adding a starting calibre power forward could leave us more unbalanced than we are now. That's why Griffin sounds much more appealing to me than Hayward.

jmr07019 wrote:Would love to get 7 from Minni or 8 from NYK for Bradley. He'd be a great fit in minni and he's still young enough to be contribute for another 6-7 years. NYK I can see making a panic win now move. I'd take Markkanen who I see as a big upgrade over KO.

I was thinking of something very similar but picking Zach Collins instead just because I'm a homer. I'm not sure how the board would feel picking another Gonzaga big though.

jmr07019 wrote:
Would love to get 7 from Minni or 8 from NYK for Bradley. He'd be a great fit in minni and he's still young enough to be contribute for another 6-7 years. NYK I can see making a panic win now move. I'd take Markkanen who I see as a big upgrade over KO.

I'd hate to lose Bradley. If we sign a max guy this year, I'd rather just pay Bradley what he's worth next year. It's not like we'll have cap space in the near future anyway.

What if Danny really wants Fultz. What if Magic really wants Ball like they say. We are tight up against the cap and want a max free agent. The Lakers probably won't be. Do you trade 1 and a 2nd this year for the 2 pick in the first and a top 10 protected 2021 pick?

It saves us over a million bucks towards the cap.

Darth Celtic wrote:What if Danny really wants Fultz. What if Magic really wants Ball like they say. We are tight up against the cap and want a max free agent. The Lakers probably won't be. Do you trade 1 and a 2nd this year for the 2 pick in the first and a top 10 protected 2021 pick?

It saves us over a million bucks towards the cap.

I don't get why the Lakers would do this. Even if they think we might draft Ball or trade the pick to someone else that'll take him like the Bears did in the NFL draft, I don't see them trading a future 1st just to get Ball instead of Fultz.

jmr07019 wrote:

Homerclease wrote:

jmr07019 wrote:Smittys article says we need to dump KO and 1 of Bradley, Smart, Crowder but I think we can get Hayward or we'd be offering him 3.5 mil short of the max.

I disagree with that take. First the estimates of the cap I saw were 102 mil. That gives you an extra million. Then I would dump Rozier and gain another .9 mil in cap space. Now you are about 1.5 mil from the max and offering Hayward about 6-8 millon less over 4 years. I think he would just sign with us instead of making us dump Bradley, Smart or Crowder. The whole reason he's coming here is to win games with those 3, IT and Horford.

The NBA came out with a more recent projection of the salary cap at 101 million, not 102. They need to move Bradley or Smart to play Fultz anyway, shouldn't be much of an issue

Would love to get 7 from Minni or 8 from NYK for Bradley. He'd be a great fit in minni and he's still young enough to be contribute for another 6-7 years. NYK I can see making a panic win now move. I'd take Markkanen who I see as a big upgrade over KO.

Any trade for an expensive rookie this year lessens the cap savings.

Also, we should not rule out strategies that include keeping Kelly. His cap hold is significantly below his true value, just as other guys' are.

Fencer reregistered wrote:

jmr07019 wrote:

Homerclease wrote:Would love to get 7 from Minni or 8 from NYK for Bradley. He'd be a great fit in minni and he's still young enough to be contribute for another 6-7 years. NYK I can see making a panic win now move. I'd take Markkanen who I see as a big upgrade over KO.

Any trade for an expensive rookie this year lessens the cap savings.

Also, we should not rule out strategies that include keeping Kelly. His cap hold is significantly below his true value, just as other guys' are.

I'm pretty sure Kelly is gone if we want Hayward, unless we can talk Utah into a sign and trade.

From Avery to the 7 pick is a 5.3 mill savings. That's enough room for Hayward, if that's the plan. Tatum, Isaac, Markkanen, Jarrett Allen...maybe Giles shows enough in workouts that Ainge chalks up his freshman season to recovery time? I could see this working.

If I did the maths right, we'd still have about 1.7 after signing Hayward and bringing Zizic over. We'd be .5 short for Yabs, though.

Basically, if we can sign Hayward and indeed also use the pick (surely on Fultz), Smitty's article says that two of Kelly, Avery, Jae and Marcus need to go, with little or no compensation in the form of players. (Mathematically, IT could go instead, but if that's the plan why would Hayward sign?)

None of the minor quibbles one might have with his article change that conclusion. (One little quibble -- if we're trading a good guy for value, the recipient can take Jackson off our hands while they're at it, so we don't have to eat his salary.)

Keeping Avery in such a scenario can only be a good choice if an extension with him is already negotiated and wrapped up. On the other hand, he's a very good player, so keeping him if practical seems tempting. Furthermore, the Avery/IT friendship comes into play here -- starting Fultz/Bradley with Thomas as the highest paid 6th man in league history seems more likely to go well than if it's somebody else in Bradley's place.

A further complication is that Hayward/Brown/Thomas/Fultz/Bradley would still be a perimeter logjam, even if you assume that Crowder/Smart are gone and that it's OK to bury Rozier at the end of the bench.

And that's all if Kelly is kept. The potential logjam gets worse if he is allowed to walk and only one of the current perimeter core is traded.

Fencer reregistered wrote:

jmr07019 wrote:

Homerclease wrote:The NBA came out with a more recent projection of the salary cap at 101 million, not 102. They need to move Bradley or Smart to play Fultz anyway, shouldn't be much of an issue

Would love to get 7 from Minni or 8 from NYK for Bradley. He'd be a great fit in minni and he's still young enough to be contribute for another 6-7 years. NYK I can see making a panic win now move. I'd take Markkanen who I see as a big upgrade over KO.

Any trade for an expensive rookie this year lessens the cap savings.

Also, we should not rule out strategies that include keeping Kelly. His cap hold is significantly below his true value, just as other guys' are.

True but we don't need a lot of cap savings just 3-5 million which I think Bradley for 7 or 8 does. The real savings is in year 2, 3, 4 of that rookie contract instead of paying Bradley 20 million per.

I won't rule it out either but I don't want to pay KO big money on a long term deal. Especially with IT, Hayward, Horford core I want defensive guys around them.

claycarver wrote:

Fencer reregistered wrote:

jmr07019 wrote:
Any trade for an expensive rookie this year lessens the cap savings.

Also, we should not rule out strategies that include keeping Kelly. His cap hold is significantly below his true value, just as other guys' are.

I'm pretty sure Kelly is gone if we want Hayward, unless we can talk Utah into a sign and trade.

From Avery to the 7 pick is a 5.3 mill savings. That's enough room for Hayward, if that's the plan. Tatum, Isaac, Markkanen, Jarrett Allen...maybe Giles shows enough in workouts that Ainge chalks up his freshman season to recovery time? I could see this working.

If I did the maths right, we'd still have about 1.7 after signing Hayward and bringing Zizic over. We'd be .5 short for Yabs, though.

I would throw Rozier into the Bradley for 7 trade so that we can bring Yabs over. We need bigs more than another guard. Perimeter rotation of IT Fultz Smart Crowder Hayward Brown has plenty of bodies. Go with a throw crap at the wall and see what sticks plan for bigmen. Yabs Zizic 7 pick should be able to give us 25-30 mpg.

Team is still too small to take on Cavs.