Marcus Smart "It's a different me"

[Slartibartfast]

For sure, the only issue I have with Marcus defensively is sometimes he takes a few plays off. But IMO he's very close to Avery's level defensively.

Something that isn't talked about by the way: I've been watching a lot of Hayward footage defensively, and he's pretty good on that end. Active hands, good positioning. Not overly physical but doesn't commit stupid fouls. Did a decent job on Durant this year.

you're absolutely right about Hayward. It won't be long for the people of Boston to fall in love with him. I think he ends up being our best overall player by a large margin. I still think IT leads the team in scoring, but Hayward won't be far behind. He's a very well rounded player. Honestly, not to make this a black VS white thing, because it shouldn't be, but if Hayward was African American he would be considered a superstar.

I think it's more Utah's pace and the market he played in that limited his stardom. Per-100 possessions, here's Hayward vs. PG3

Hayward - 33.4 PPG, 8.2 RPG, 5.3 APG, 1.5 SPG, 2.9 TOPG, 47% FG%, 40% 3PT%, 8.9 FT/G (84% FT%), 22.2 PER, 60% TS%
George - 33.0 PPG, 9.2 RPG, 4.7 APG, 2.2 SPG, 4.1 TOPG, 46% FG%, 39% 3PT%, 7.0 FT/G (89% FT%), 20.2 PER, 59% TS%

Hayward's durability can also not be understated - the most games he's missed in a season is 10, and has had no major joint / back / foot issues.

The way Hayward played last year, he was an All-NBA caliber guy. His usage may come down a little sharing the light with IT and Horford, but he's going to be a huge boost for this team.

Hayward isn't quite All-NBA caliber if you take his D-RPM seriously. Offensively, he's right there with PG and Butler - but at peak performance, both those guys enjoy a large defensive advantage over him.

So if you're looking at All-NBA wing forwards, you've got LBJ/KD/Kawhi on their own tier, then Giannis/Jimmy/PG, then Gordo.

[Crossy2008]

For sure, the only issue I have with Marcus defensively is sometimes he takes a few plays off. But IMO he's very close to Avery's level defensively.

Something that isn't talked about by the way: I've been watching a lot of Hayward footage defensively, and he's pretty good on that end. Active hands, good positioning. Not overly physical but doesn't commit stupid fouls. Did a decent job on Durant this year.

you're absolutely right about Hayward. It won't be long for the people of Boston to fall in love with him. I think he ends up being our best overall player by a large margin. I still think IT leads the team in scoring, but Hayward won't be far behind. He's a very well rounded player. Honestly, not to make this a black VS white thing, because it shouldn't be, but if Hayward was African American he would be considered a superstar.

I think it's more Utah's pace and the market he played in that limited his stardom. Per-100 possessions, here's Hayward vs. PG3

Hayward - 33.4 PPG, 8.2 RPG, 5.3 APG, 1.5 SPG, 2.9 TOPG, 47% FG%, 40% 3PT%, 8.9 FT/G (84% FT%), 22.2 PER, 60% TS%
George - 33.0 PPG, 9.2 RPG, 4.7 APG, 2.2 SPG, 4.1 TOPG, 46% FG%, 39% 3PT%, 7.0 FT/G (89% FT%), 20.2 PER, 59% TS%

Hayward's durability can also not be understated - the most games he's missed in a season is 10, and has had no major joint / back / foot issues.

The way Hayward played last year, he was an All-NBA caliber guy. His usage may come down a little sharing the light with IT and Horford, but he's going to be a huge boost for this team.

Hayward's such a smooth player too. He doesn't force anything, or try to rush his offense. He just finds a spot on the court he feels comfortable with and gets a quality shot. His ball movement is impressive as well.

Last season, one of Horford's biggest praises from Gorman was that the ball doesn't stick in his hands for long. Hayward is even more decisive than Horford. The ball movement should be awesome next year. Never mind who is going to be the best player on the team next season, the team play should improve a lot.

[GoCeltics123]

you're absolutely right about Hayward. It won't be long for the people of Boston to fall in love with him. I think he ends up being our best overall player by a large margin. I still think IT leads the team in scoring, but Hayward won't be far behind. He's a very well rounded player. Honestly, not to make this a black VS white thing, because it shouldn't be, but if Hayward was African American he would be considered a superstar.

I think it's more Utah's pace and the market he played in that limited his stardom. Per-100 possessions, here's Hayward vs. PG3

Hayward - 33.4 PPG, 8.2 RPG, 5.3 APG, 1.5 SPG, 2.9 TOPG, 47% FG%, 40% 3PT%, 8.9 FT/G (84% FT%), 22.2 PER, 60% TS%
George - 33.0 PPG, 9.2 RPG, 4.7 APG, 2.2 SPG, 4.1 TOPG, 46% FG%, 39% 3PT%, 7.0 FT/G (89% FT%), 20.2 PER, 59% TS%

Hayward's durability can also not be understated - the most games he's missed in a season is 10, and has had no major joint / back / foot issues.

The way Hayward played last year, he was an All-NBA caliber guy. His usage may come down a little sharing the light with IT and Horford, but he's going to be a huge boost for this team.

Hayward's such a smooth player too. He doesn't force anything, or try to rush his offense. He just finds a spot on the court he feels comfortable with and gets a quality shot. His ball movement is impressive as well.

Last season, one of Horford's biggest praises from Gorman was that the ball doesn't stick in his hands for long. Hayward is even more decisive than Horford. The ball movement should be awesome next year. Never mind who is going to be the best player on the team next season, the team play should improve a lot.

Hayward is deceptive in that way too. You don't really realize he has 30 until you look up the stats. He almost NEVER forces bad shots, or shoot his way into a game. Perfect #2/3 option qualities.

IT has nights when he'll shoot a lot when he's struggling to get back in a game, but Hayward doesn't really do that. He picks his spots.

Also, another thing I noticed is that Hayward often scores in spurts. He'll be quiet, then BOOM, he'll hit you for like 8 straight points fast.

[ddb]

you're absolutely right about Hayward. It won't be long for the people of Boston to fall in love with him. I think he ends up being our best overall player by a large margin. I still think IT leads the team in scoring, but Hayward won't be far behind. He's a very well rounded player. Honestly, not to make this a black VS white thing, because it shouldn't be, but if Hayward was African American he would be considered a superstar.

I think it's more Utah's pace and the market he played in that limited his stardom. Per-100 possessions, here's Hayward vs. PG3

Hayward - 33.4 PPG, 8.2 RPG, 5.3 APG, 1.5 SPG, 2.9 TOPG, 47% FG%, 40% 3PT%, 8.9 FT/G (84% FT%), 22.2 PER, 60% TS%
George - 33.0 PPG, 9.2 RPG, 4.7 APG, 2.2 SPG, 4.1 TOPG, 46% FG%, 39% 3PT%, 7.0 FT/G (89% FT%), 20.2 PER, 59% TS%

Hayward's durability can also not be understated - the most games he's missed in a season is 10, and has had no major joint / back / foot issues.

The way Hayward played last year, he was an All-NBA caliber guy. His usage may come down a little sharing the light with IT and Horford, but he's going to be a huge boost for this team.

Hayward isn't quite All-NBA caliber if you take his D-RPM seriously. Offensively, he's right there with PG and Butler - but at peak performance, both those guys enjoy a large defensive advantage over him.

So if you're looking at All-NBA wing forwards, you've got LBJ/KD/Kawhi on their own tier, then Giannis/Jimmy/PG, then Gordo.

Personally, I'd much rather have Hayward over Butler. I feel like Butler is a bit overrated

[Dannyboy36]

Is it OK to say both that Marcus' impact will always be muted due to his shooting, but that he's also a hell of a player and a clear net-positive impact to the team?

I think he's a net-negative. At least last season. I just think him not needing to be checked on offense makes it really hard on the other players and just clogs up everything. Too much hero play and out of control chucking at the basket.

You do have to take into consideration who he's been playing with. I think he's going to have a much better group to work with this year.

I think that there have been plenty of opportunities for smart to drive to the basket. He just doesn't have the skill/ speed to do so. He's not even confident taking Kevin Love off the dribble. I hope for the best from Smart but I'm not expecting much. I just want him to quit the hero ball.

[ddb]

I think it's more Utah's pace and the market he played in that limited his stardom. Per-100 possessions, here's Hayward vs. PG3

Hayward - 33.4 PPG, 8.2 RPG, 5.3 APG, 1.5 SPG, 2.9 TOPG, 47% FG%, 40% 3PT%, 8.9 FT/G (84% FT%), 22.2 PER, 60% TS%
George - 33.0 PPG, 9.2 RPG, 4.7 APG, 2.2 SPG, 4.1 TOPG, 46% FG%, 39% 3PT%, 7.0 FT/G (89% FT%), 20.2 PER, 59% TS%

Hayward's durability can also not be understated - the most games he's missed in a season is 10, and has had no major joint / back / foot issues.

The way Hayward played last year, he was an All-NBA caliber guy. His usage may come down a little sharing the light with IT and Horford, but he's going to be a huge boost for this team.

Hayward's such a smooth player too. He doesn't force anything, or try to rush his offense. He just finds a spot on the court he feels comfortable with and gets a quality shot. His ball movement is impressive as well.

Last season, one of Horford's biggest praises from Gorman was that the ball doesn't stick in his hands for long. Hayward is even more decisive than Horford. The ball movement should be awesome next year. Never mind who is going to be the best player on the team next season, the team play should improve a lot.

Hayward is deceptive in that way too. You don't really realize he has 30 until you look up the stats. He almost NEVER forces bad shots, or shoot his way into a game. Perfect #2/3 option qualities.

IT has nights when he'll shoot a lot when he's struggling to get back in a game, but Hayward doesn't really do that. He picks his spots.

Also, another thing I noticed is that Hayward often scores in spurts. He'll be quiet, then BOOM, he'll hit you for like 8 straight points fast.

Last season when IT wasn't on the floor the team struggled to manufacture points. There shouldn't be many stints this upcoming season where that's the case. Hayward will certainly help, and I think Tatum is going to help as well in that regard.

[Salahmanders]

To put this in context, I've never been a Marcus Smart guy. He was the one guy in the top 6-7 that I didn't want the year we drafted him (my order was Embiid, Wiggins, Parker, Randle, Gordon, Exum, Smart), I can't stand the flopping or him punching dudes in the nuts.

That said ... he's technically not a bad shooter. His form is solid, and he does work at it, as it's better than it was when he first got here. As the advanced metrics bear out, when he shoots in the flow of the offense, he makes his shots at right around (a little above at times, a little below at times) a league average percentage.

Where he gets in trouble, and where I also can't stand him, is with his shot selection. His percentage (three's and two's) is horrible when he forces shots, or takes contested shots. He also gets cocky when he makes a shot or two, and starts jacking heat-check shots that he has no business taking. Like leper-con said on page 1 of this thread, he needs to skip the 3/4 court shots in that video and shoot over and over from right at the line. If he sticks to high percentage, open shots, and lets the game come to him instead of forcing it, he'll shoot well enough. Big if.....

[Homerclease]

Contract year for Marcus. It's now or never for him

[ConstableGeneva]

Read on Twitter

[FlatearthZorro]

I think it's more Utah's pace and the market he played in that limited his stardom. Per-100 possessions, here's Hayward vs. PG3

Hayward - 33.4 PPG, 8.2 RPG, 5.3 APG, 1.5 SPG, 2.9 TOPG, 47% FG%, 40% 3PT%, 8.9 FT/G (84% FT%), 22.2 PER, 60% TS%
George - 33.0 PPG, 9.2 RPG, 4.7 APG, 2.2 SPG, 4.1 TOPG, 46% FG%, 39% 3PT%, 7.0 FT/G (89% FT%), 20.2 PER, 59% TS%

Hayward's durability can also not be understated - the most games he's missed in a season is 10, and has had no major joint / back / foot issues.

The way Hayward played last year, he was an All-NBA caliber guy. His usage may come down a little sharing the light with IT and Horford, but he's going to be a huge boost for this team.

Hayward isn't quite All-NBA caliber if you take his D-RPM seriously. Offensively, he's right there with PG and Butler - but at peak performance, both those guys enjoy a large defensive advantage over him.

So if you're looking at All-NBA wing forwards, you've got LBJ/KD/Kawhi on their own tier, then Giannis/Jimmy/PG, then Gordo.

Personally, I'd much rather have Hayward over Butler. I feel like Butler is a bit overrated

To me George is overrated too. Dudes considered a superstar and he isn't. Hayward will get a ton of recognition playing for us this year, mark my words. What I like about Gordon is how he steps up against good competition. He owned Giannis last season[for example].

[Elrod is Back]

Contract year for Marcus. It's now or never for him

My guess is "now." But I am a Marcus fan. I think it will be an IQ test for NBA GMs if Marcus becomes a free agent by seeing who aggressively tries to sign him.

Playing guard exclusively will help him, especially if he regains some of his quickness with a weight loss. Big if, but far from a pipedream. It is not like he has an eating disorder or a dubious commitment to hard work.

I don't think the Cs trade Avery unless they expect Marcus to fill the void and then some.

I am reminded of the time, in 2015 I believe, that Brad was asked what position Marcus plays. This was back when the debate was whether Marcus was a 1 or a 2.

His response: "Winner."

I agree. When the game is on the line, his shooting percentage gets better, like DJ. He rarely goes more than a few games without making a defensive play that boggles the mind. You never have to wonder if his head is in the game. Ever.

He is the sort of guy that if he played on the opposing team you would hate him, like Rodman. He is Red's kind of guy, an instigator.

Marcus seems like a dream guard to come off the bench for 25 mpg. With Tatum and Hayward there will be less pressure on him to be a main scoring option. He has a key role to play on a championship team.

Marcus just turned 23. On any other contender he would be considered the young guy, the future. Only on a team with fully eight players on the roster having even less experience than Marcus can someone like Marcus be considered a middle-aged guy who has peaked and is approaching the downward slope of his career.

[Dannyboy36]

I think smart is always engaged but his shot selection is terrible. We probably weren't going to win that last game vs. The Cavs but nobody talks about how he shot us out of that game early on with hero shots and turn overs. People just talk about the previous game when he hit all those 3's. I really don't understand why he can't stay away from the 3 like Evan Turner did but I'm sure Stevens has his reasons he allows or encourages it so it would be unfair I think to pin it all on Marcus. Maybe he improves his 3 s lot. I can't see it at this point but anything is possible.

[ddb]

Hayward isn't quite All-NBA caliber if you take his D-RPM seriously. Offensively, he's right there with PG and Butler - but at peak performance, both those guys enjoy a large defensive advantage over him.

So if you're looking at All-NBA wing forwards, you've got LBJ/KD/Kawhi on their own tier, then Giannis/Jimmy/PG, then Gordo.

Personally, I'd much rather have Hayward over Butler. I feel like Butler is a bit overrated

To me George is overrated too. Dudes considered a superstar and he isn't. Hayward will get a ton of recognition playing for us this year, mark my words. What I like about Gordon is how he steps up against good competition. He owned Giannis last season[for example].

Hayward will be an All-Star for the next 3 guaranteed seasons that he is signed on with Boston. Hopefully, he gets a ring during the first 3 years as well. By the time his option comes into play, he should be a 4x's All-Star with a Ring.

[OFWGKTA]

Personally, I'd much rather have Hayward over Butler. I feel like Butler is a bit overrated

To me George is overrated too. Dudes considered a superstar and he isn't. Hayward will get a ton of recognition playing for us this year, mark my words. What I like about Gordon is how he steps up against good competition. He owned Giannis last season[for example].

Hayward will be an All-Star for the next 3 guaranteed seasons that he is signed on with Boston. Hopefully, he gets a ring during the first 3 years as well. By the time his option comes into play, he should be a 4x's All-Star with a Ring.

Hayward was much better than Butler in the playoffs too, and arguably better than George when you factor in efficiency. His playoff stats when discounting the food poisoning game where he only played 9 minutes:

26.2/6.5/3.7 on 44.3/41.5/93.4

George: 28/8.8/7.3 on 38.6/42.9/86.7

Butler: 22.7/7.3/4.3 on 42.6/26.1/80.9

[Slartibartfast]

To me George is overrated too. Dudes considered a superstar and he isn't. Hayward will get a ton of recognition playing for us this year, mark my words. What I like about Gordon is how he steps up against good competition. He owned Giannis last season[for example].

Hayward will be an All-Star for the next 3 guaranteed seasons that he is signed on with Boston. Hopefully, he gets a ring during the first 3 years as well. By the time his option comes into play, he should be a 4x's All-Star with a Ring.

Hayward was much better than Butler in the playoffs too, and arguably better than George when you factor in efficiency. His playoff stats when discounting the food poisoning game where he only played 9 minutes:

26.2/6.5/3.7 on 44.3/41.5/93.4

George: 28/8.8/7.3 on 38.6/42.9/86.7

Butler: 22.7/7.3/4.3 on 42.6/26.1/80.9

He had a great playoffs, but there are two sides of the court. Hayward is as good as PG and Butler offensively, but both those guys have historically been pretty excellent defenders on the other side, while Hayward has pretty consistently graded out as meh in defensive metrics (D-RPM, DRTG).

[OFWGKTA]

Hayward will be an All-Star for the next 3 guaranteed seasons that he is signed on with Boston. Hopefully, he gets a ring during the first 3 years as well. By the time his option comes into play, he should be a 4x's All-Star with a Ring.

Hayward was much better than Butler in the playoffs too, and arguably better than George when you factor in efficiency. His playoff stats when discounting the food poisoning game where he only played 9 minutes:

26.2/6.5/3.7 on 44.3/41.5/93.4

George: 28/8.8/7.3 on 38.6/42.9/86.7

Butler: 22.7/7.3/4.3 on 42.6/26.1/80.9

He had a great playoffs, but there are two sides of the court. Hayward is as good as PG and Butler offensively, but both those guys have historically been pretty excellent defenders on the other side, while Hayward has pretty consistently graded out as meh in defensive metrics (D-RPM, DRTG).

I'd probably rank them George, Hayward, then Butler. Hayward over Butler due to shooting, they're all very close though.

[Slartibartfast]

Hayward was much better than Butler in the playoffs too, and arguably better than George when you factor in efficiency. His playoff stats when discounting the food poisoning game where he only played 9 minutes:

26.2/6.5/3.7 on 44.3/41.5/93.4

George: 28/8.8/7.3 on 38.6/42.9/86.7

Butler: 22.7/7.3/4.3 on 42.6/26.1/80.9

He had a great playoffs, but there are two sides of the court. Hayward is as good as PG and Butler offensively, but both those guys have historically been pretty excellent defenders on the other side, while Hayward has pretty consistently graded out as meh in defensive metrics (D-RPM, DRTG).

I'd probably rank them George, Hayward, then Butler. Hayward over Butler due to shooting, they're all very close though.

Hayward's a better shooter than Butler, but Butler is the better slasher. He's also freakishly low-turnover - his 5.3 assist to 2 turnover ratio from the wing while playing a slashing-heavy role on a team with a awful spacing is one of the more remarkable stats in the NBA. Not that Hayward is a slouch taking care of the ball either, but Butler is one of a kind.

And he's much better than Hayward defensively.

I have it close between Butler and George and then a full tier down to Gordo.

Hayward enjoys similar space between him and the next tier down though (Gallo and Middleton, though I think Middleton could take another leap this year).

[Parliament10]

I'm still a believer that if Smart can shoot near 35-38% from 3, he is a borderline all star. Last year he improved his FT shooting and passing. This year he will improve his 3 point shooting. Borderline all-star or not, Smart is a big part of our winning. So is Crowder.

A lot of people get on Smart and Crowder, but our biggest weakness was our PFs. Amir was no longer a quality starter and KO was KO. 26 points one game, 1 point the next.

Smart is shooting 36% FG - 28% 3PT - 81% FT. -- Any improvement in that, is good.

Get his 3's up to like 33%, and I'll be happy. -- As far as 2's; he shouldn't be shooting them.
Smart is more valuable in other areas. He should stick to those.

[m haynes]

I'll make this easy. M Smart is a Jag. IMO he stinks, He has No offensive game. He works hard on defense but he is not close to being great. If anyone says anything positive on his offensive game is a complete HOMER.

[Jaqua92]

I think smart is always engaged but his shot selection is terrible. We probably weren't going to win that last game vs. The Cavs but nobody talks about how he shot us out of that game early on with hero shots and turn overs. People just talk about the previous game when he hit all those 3's. I really don't understand why he can't stay away from the 3 like Evan Turner did but I'm sure Stevens has his reasons he allows or encourages it so it would be unfair I think to pin it all on Marcus. Maybe he improves his 3 s lot. I can't see it at this point but anything is possible.

He shot us out of a game or two vs Washington as well.

Marcus will always be an off the bench guy. Fact is, he's not that skilled