So to recap: one top pick for Butler/George = Too much, but a top pick AND IT for Irving = Great???

Red Folder · Post #1 » by **Red Folder** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:28 am

You guys could have Butler or George AND IT right now, instead you have Kyrie.

As an outsider, I gotta say you guys really dropped the ball here. You also made Cleveland a better team now and gave them a significantly better deal than anyone else in the league was going to offer.

rochrist · Post #2 » by **rochrist** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:30 am

Irving is better than Butler. And one year of George isn't worth it.

Red Folder · Post #3 » by **Red Folder** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:32 am

rochrist wrote:Irving is better than Butler. And one year of George isn't worth it.

Ok, but is Irving better than Butler AND Thomas?

celticfan42487 · Post #4 » by **celticfan42487** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:35 am

Trading IT helps as we didn't want to pay a breaking down 5'7" inch player a max deal next year. We're happy betting against him in CLE while both he and LeBron get older.

Butler and George are likely better players, but they are still a couple years older which matters with our young draft picks. And I don't think anyone really believed George is going to turn down LA for the cold and comparatively microscopic market of Boston.

But yeah we lost the trade, but the context is there were no stars left to trade for and we finally consolidated some of the trades to extend our window.

We lost the Nets pick and went from a core of IT at 28 (and kinda Horford) to Irving at 25 and Hayward at 27 (and kinda Horford).

So he lost this trade (and tripled down on Tatum being an all-star) but you can't argue that the Celtics put themselves in a better position.

Irving is a legit 2nd best player on a championship team. Hayward is a legit 3rd best player on a championship team.

And again, this is all about Ainge basically putting his entire career at stake that Tatum will be an all-star. He traded the Nets pick instead of Tatum. He traded the #1 overall on a gamble because he wanted Tatum instead. On Tatum Ainge shall be judged.

Slax · Post #5 » by **Slax** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:37 am

Red Folder wrote:
rochrist wrote:Irving is better than Butler. And one year of George isn't worth it.

Ok, but is Irving better than Butler AND Thomas?

What specific deal do you have in mind, and would it have allowed us to sign Hayward? I think the main reason we didn't get Butler or George is we got **** by the low cap.

Tyakack · Post #6 » by **Tyakack** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:38 am

Why can't bulls fans just get over the fact we didn't want butler?

Red Folder · Post #7 » by **Red Folder** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:39 am

Let me say that I definitely agree with I would rather have Irving moving forward than IT and Crowder. But when you factor in a top 5 pick in a loaded draft, plus the fact that you could have gotten another star just months ago for JUST the pick, it doesn't make much sense. You also gave Cleveland a return that it 200% better than any other offer in the league.

Post #8 » by **SuperDeluxe** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:41 am

The only way this trade kinda makes sense in my mind is if IT is damaged goods and that the trade is not contingent on him passing his physical. Otherwise, it's a head-scratcher.

Curmudgeon · Post #9 » by **Curmudgeon** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:42 am

Yep. The Brooklyn pick was too much unless it's protected.

Red Folder · Post #10 » by **Red Folder** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:44 am

Tyakack wrote:Why can't bulls fans just get over the fact we didn't want butler?

I'm a Bulls fan 1st, Lebron hater 2nd. So come Eastern conference playoffs time, that makes me a Celtics fan. As someone who wants to see you guys beat Cleveland, I think this offseason was handled pretty poorly.

Zeno · Post #11 » by **Zeno** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:47 am

SuperDeluxe wrote:The only way this trade kinda makes sense in my mind is if IT is damaged goods and that the trade is not contingent on him passing his physical. Otherwise, it's a head-scratcher.

It also makes sense if Cleveland is treating IT as a rental essentially knowing that Lebron is leaving. They might not to pay him also. So the trade is one year of IT, Crowder, Zizic and the Nets pick. I don't see anyone paying Thomas big next year unless Lebron stays in Cleveland and they want to keep him. I think IT's value was really low for this reason.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #12 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:48 am

I think we had a better offer for Butler and the Bulls panicked and left the table early.

Superstar trade prices are what make this a bad deal. In a vacuum, it's ok, if you underrate IT and the BKN pick.

But Cousins, Butler, and Paul George were all just traded for worse packages.

We paid full price for a "superstar" who demanded a trade.

IT/Crowder/Zizic/BKN 18

Vs Wiggins, Bennett for Love; Gallo, Chandler, Felton, Mozgov for Carmelo; KMart, Jeremy Lamb, picks for Harden.

Bad trade. Overpay. Bizarre. We couldn't have done a "lesser of BKN/LAL" protection?

What better offers did Cleveland have?

pasfru · Post #13 » by **pasfru** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:49 am

rochrist wrote:Irving is better than Butler. And one year of George isn't worth it.

Nope.

meatball sub · Post #14 » by **meatball sub** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:51 am

Irving is everything we hoped Fultz would've turned into on lottery night, and now we have the actual Kyrie Irving. We traded that #1 pick for Tatum & ended up with a bonafide top 5 NBA player at the 1 to boot.

We all love IT, but there are major concerns about him beyond this year. Take him out of the equation because the FO was never going to resign him for the money he expects to make. This is Jae Crowder, Zizic & the Nets pick for KYRIE IRVING.

Win. It's a win. This is a win.

Post #15 » by **Froob** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:52 am

Fruit Pastilles wrote:
rochrist wrote:Irving is better than Butler. And one year of George isn't worth it.

Nope.

Doubtful Butler could do what Kyrie did in the Finals.

KGboss · Post #16 » by **KGboss** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:53 am

Red Folder wrote:You guys could have Butler or George AND IT right now, instead you have Kyrie.

As an outsider, I gotta say you guys really dropped the ball here. You also made Cleveland a better team now and gave them a significantly better deal than anyone else in the league was going to offer.

We got Irving and Hayward....

pasfru · Post #17 » by **pasfru** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:53 am

Froob wrote:
Fruit Pastilles wrote:
rochrist wrote:Irving is better than Butler. And one year of George isn't worth it.

Nope.

Doubtful Butler could do what Kyrie did in the Finals.

Butler's a legit top 10 player. Had a rough Playoffs this year (like Kyrie), but still very good.

Kyrie's scraping top 20. Great scorer, bad defender and lacklustre passer.

Post #18 » by **Duke4life831** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:55 am

If you make the trade then I assume Hayward isnt here. So its not really IT/Butler or Kyrie. Its IT/Butler or Kyrie/Hayward. Im not going to mention George because George wouldnt have stayed and that wouldve been very dumb.

Honestly this all depends on 1 thing, what couldve contract could Boston get IT to sign. If IT would only sign for the max and was going to leave if not getting it. Then ya Id take Kyrie/Hayward all day everyday. Also its very possible that Ainge/Stevens just arent big fans of Butler. I think Hayward fits alongside a ball dominant PG much better than Butler does. Maybe Ainge/Stevens just didnt like the fit of Butler with IT.

chakdaddy · Post #19 » by **chakdaddy** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:55 am

Interesting that Danny blinked on pick protection in both trades.

Elrod is Back · Post #20 » by **Elrod is Back** » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:02 am

meatball sub wrote:Irving is everything we hoped Fultz would've turned into on lottery night, and now we have the actual Kyrie Irving. We traded that #1 pick for Tatum & ended up with a bonafide top 5 NBA player at the 1 to boot.

We all love IT, but there are major concerns about him beyond this year. Take him out of the equation because the FO was never going to resign him for the money he expects to make. This is Jae Crowder, Zizic & the Nets pick for KYRIE IRVING.

Win. It's a win. This is a win.

If Kyrie is a top 5 NBA player this would be a total steal.

He isn't even a top 5 guard. Not even a top 5 point guard. Off the top of my head Wall, Curry, Paul, Westbrook, Harden jump out as clearly superior. Then you have a group of Conley, IT, Lowry, Dragic, Lillard and a few more. I suspect several of them are in the same class as Irving. And in terms of market value, one or two or three of this year's rookie class--Fultz, Ball, Smith, Fox, Ntilikina-- will probably be as desirable as Irving in short order.

Irving is not a top 20 player in the NBA. A great great scorer, in the same class as IT. A mediocre play maker. A lousy defender. Injury prone with a beat-up body.

God almighty, I hope I am proven wrong.