Which PGs are you most wanting to see Kyrie go against?

[OFWGKTA]

John Wall is so overrated, I'd take any of Kyrie, IT, Lillard before him easily.

[AlCelticFan]

Curry. In the finals.

[Big Baby]

I get that your giving the most optimistic and favorable projection of kyrie possible. But there is nothing in their history to suggest that Kyrie is a better passer then John Wall. I agree with everything else, but it gets into a stretch to say he's a better passer or is even capable. Wall has the 6th highest assists per game average of all time and probably will move to 3 or 4 in the next few years.

I'm not just being optimistic. I've been secretly crushing on Kyrie since his rookie year. I remember Kyrie abusing - ABUSING - our beloved Avery Bradley who was doing stuff like this:

Watch on YouTube

Stuff like this:

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And this:

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But there's always been one player who always toyed with Avery and just abused him. So much so that it left Mike Gorman speechless. And this was all before LeBron James.

Listen to Mike Gorman calling the game. Kyrie was just a rookie here.

Watch on YouTube

Even if it's just a highlight, you can see his IQ, vision and feel are off the charts. He was 18 then. He's since made 4 all star teams, won a gold medal in the Olympics, went to the NBA finals 3 times and won a championship with the biggest shot in the Finals history. He is as unstoppable as anyone EVER yet he wants to come here and make his Celtics teammates better. And he's just 25.

Wait. I need to go get some tissues and wipe these tears off my damn eyes. Can't see a damn thing. Watch this clip. I'll be right back.

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Did you see that? Kyrie Irving is going to average 10apg this year. Book it.

Watch on YouTube

[Shanghai Kid]

Well I can't fault your enthusiasm. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

[BfB]

I can't wait to see him go against Wall, more than any other. They should be the two best PGs in the East. Should be some epic battles, the more so since our teams are pretty evenly matched overall, and we've got a budding little rivalry going. I'd like to put IT in there as well, but I'm not sure how he'll come back from his injury (hoping he kills it.)

Would love to see Kyrie destroy Ball and Fultz, especially Ball. Going against Chris Paul should be pretty great, too, and Lillard. Oh, and Curry, of course.

I wonder what Danny will do with that 15th spot. Slim pickins left. I was hoping we'd get Bogut.

How are we evenly matched with Washington? Those two teams were evenly matched last year, but now we've upgraded at almost every position.

We'll see how it shakes out. IT was pretty darned good last year. I think Kyrie is better, but we'll see. Hayward is clearly better than Jae. Bradley was better than what Jaylen or Smart will be at the 2, imo. Baynes and Amir are probably about a wash, but that remains to be seen, too. I frankly don't know too much about Baynes game yet. Amir sure got paid a lot more than him this year, so we'll see. I think Morris has the potential to be better than Kelly, but Kelly was an advanced stats hero last year, so we'll see about that, too. I hope they don't have to play much of a role, but our deep bench is a bunch of rookies, and they generally don't fare well. Hopefully that won't matter.

Bottom line is that we upgraded two positions, and beyond that there remain a bunch of questions about how everything will work out. Would not surprise me at all if we win fewer games. So I'm starting the season with the idea that we're pretty evenly matched.

No doubt about the question marks above, but I strongly believe that the power of having two elite scorers has an exponential effect on role player volume, efficiency, and consistency.

I've spent(wasted) considerable time researching Kyrie since the trade and I am supremely confident that Irving/Hayward/Horford is going to look a great deal like Steph/Klay/Green combo from 3 years ago, at least offensively.

I don't anticipate a steep learning curve from Kyrie any longer. I feel he's been yearning for a more free flowing game, where possessions are inflated by pace and movement allowing for sustained production from 4-6 central players, (ala GSW).

My gut tells me the the actual veterans on this team will gel rather quickly, which will give them more of a chance to focus on bringing Rozier/Brown/Tatum/Ojeleye/Theis into the mix as they go.

I think Kyrie will have his best games against GSW because of it and by March/April i'm expecting at least 3 of the 5 younger players above will be outperforming age/experience expectations. If this happens they will absolutely beat WAS/TOR in 6 games or less - that's my belief.

The more i've begun to study this team the more confident I feel about their collective, complementary skillsets and existing strengths. If Horford/Morris/Hayward/Smart/Irving (not as a starting 5, but as main vets) are playing at a high level of continuity there is going to be a **** of open space to fill be moving off ball - corner three's, basket cuts, and baseline drop-offs are going to spike significantly from where they were past season.

Despite their relative youth, the younger players on this team are developed enough to be above NBA average in these looks. Rozier/Brown can get into the lane at will, but both struggle with effectively reading help. But when they play with the main vets there are going to be 20-25% more wide open lanes and i'd bet the average closeout distance will increase by over a foot relative to those same looks last season.

Ojeleye/Theis look like they'll be knockdown shooters from the corners right off the bat. Ojeleye will absolutely excel early in basket cuts and the screen game as well. Theis will be highly effective hanging around the basket - drop-offs and putbacks become simple for bouncy guys who hang around the basket to take advantage of scrambling help defenders trying to thwart Irving/Hayward forays to the basket.

The biggest mystery is Tatum, mostly due to his reputation as an ISO player. While I think he favors it more than Kyrie, i've also seen his Team USA footage, where he plays like a completely different player - all energy and hustle.

The book on him was that it wasn't as easy to get him to buy-in to that style for coaches as it was to get Josh Jackson to, but that's not completely surprising. Further, I strongly believe the difference between accepting a supporting role among your peers is far different than doing so among your superiors.

Tatum may have been less enthusiastic about it, but he accepted and excelled at it. I think he'll have similar success doing so as a rookie. When he's committed to doing the in-between stuff he's explosive - Youtube search "Tatum team USA" for an idea.

Point being, even without doing a ton of ISO "feature" stuff, I think he'll be a plus role playing contributor, even if its more of the 7-9th man way.

All of the above becomes feasible if Kyrie is all-in on Brad's system...which I believe he is.

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[NuckyPowell]

There's no question that acquiring stars is far more difficult than getting quality reserves, or even decent starters. As everyone recognizes, foremost among them Danny, we had a lot of good players and we needed great players. So, I think getting Kyrie and Hayward will pay off tremendously, possibly as early as this year. And we still have extra assets not yet cashed in, so I think we are on the right track towards our next championship. I only took issue with the statement that we are necessarily better than last year's squad in this coming season. We may well end up better. A fair bit depends on the development of young players, and I love Tatum. I like Brown as well. We had a group last year whose sum, I think, was greater than its parts. This present group has a much higher ceiling. I'm just not sure that they'll out achieve last year's overachieving squad THIS year. I hope they do, I just don't think it's a given, though.

[BfB]

Certainly not a given no. What I wrote above is speculative, purely based off my gut instincts.

That being said, I'm really starting to become bullish on this team's short-term upside. The more I look at how much PT they baked into their rotation for youth, the more I started to see the bigger picture.

I don't think the team is expecting less this year as much as they are taking a calculated risk with little long term downside.

This might be quite a show.


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[Captain_Caveman]

Certainly not a given no. What I wrote above is speculative, purely based off my gut instincts.

That being said, I'm really starting to become bullish on this team's short-term upside. The more I look at how much PT they baked into their rotation for youth, the more I started to see the bigger picture.

I don't think the team is expecting less this year as much as they are taking a calculated risk with little long term downside.

This might be quite a show.


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I think they will be one of the top teams this year. Fully agree that the big thing is having two bonafide scorers. We were a house of cards last year, but overachieved due to coaching and grit. A couple of top 15-20 players took notice of Stevens making chicken salad out of chicken ****, and we are now far more talented, with holes that are less gaping (secondary scoring, rebounding).

Too many people are looking at this like a math equation. As in, we lost x amount of defense and y amount of depth. I would counter that by first pointing out that we weren't even that good defensively last year, nor was our bench that great. Second, any loss overall has been more than offset and then some by the increase in talent and the fact that our young talent is now a year older. Holistically-speaking, they now have less weaknesses and a higher ceiling. The bad teams, of which there are many, will have an even harder time handling us. The really good teams, of which there are few, will have a harder time holding us off.

Will there be an adjustment period? Could injuries throw us off? Will the quality of this offseason be dictated in large part by where a couple of future picks come in and whether or not Fultz becomes a star?

Sure, but we are FAR more talented right now and get slept on widely, even by Celtics fans.

With the definite exception of the Warriors, and possible exception of the Spurs, we are going to teabag this league this year.

[Fidel Sarcasmo]

John Wall is so overrated, I'd take any of Kyrie, IT, Lillard before him easily.

John wall is unbelievably good. I used to be down on him but he's taken it to another gear through hard work. When he plays pissed off, he's dominant.

[OFWGKTA]

John Wall is so overrated, I'd take any of Kyrie, IT, Lillard before him easily.

John wall is unbelievably good. I used to be down on him but he's taken it to another gear through hard work. When he plays pissed off, he's dominant.

I didn't come away with that conclusion in the second round, I was more impressed with Beal tbh.

[UNCBlue012]

John Wall is so overrated, I'd take any of Kyrie, IT, Lillard before him easily.

John wall is unbelievably good. I used to be down on him but he's taken it to another gear through hard work. When he plays pissed off, he's dominant.

I didn't come away with that conclusion in the second round, I was more impressed with Beal tbh.

BB was really good but I was just waiting for Wall to assert his dominance, which he did for MOST of the series.

That being said, almost NO ONE in the league, if anyone, can score like Kyrie. He has his flaws, but scoring is absolutely not one.

He got his wish and was traded, even more so to a contender with a top 2-3 coach — This year will be fun!!!

[OFWGKTA]

John wall is unbelievably good. I used to be down on him but he's taken it to another gear through hard work. When he plays pissed off, he's dominant.

I didn't come away with that conclusion in the second round, I was more impressed with Beal tbh.

BB was really good but I was just waiting for Wall to assert his dominance, which he did for MOST of the series.

That being said, almost NO ONE in the league, if anyone, can score like Kyrie. He has his flaws, but scoring is absolutely not one.

He got his wish and was traded, even more so to a contender with a top 2-3 coach — This year will be fun!!!

I just felt like I saw a lot more fire out of Beal, he was battling on the block for offensive rebounds and making the hustle plays while playing good D. Wall was pretty bad on defense, and part of the aura around him is that he's a great defender, despite that it seemed like he barely defended IT, and when he did it made no difference. He wasn't a huge difference maker at the end of games, and yeah he was gassed, but so is everyone at that point in the season, and it's the guys that will themselves to keep going and continue being aggressive that come out ahead in the playoffs.

[London2Boston]

Wall's defence has become so over rated. Beal is the one who guards the star PG more often than not.

[VeryMuchWoke]

John Wall is so overrated, I'd take any of Kyrie, IT, Lillard before him easily.

John wall is unbelievably good. I used to be down on him but he's taken it to another gear through hard work. When he plays pissed off, he's dominant.

Well then he certainly wasn't very pissed off against us, which is odd considering the animosity between the two teams.

He can't shoot and thus he can't score efficiently if you keep him in the half-court. Nice regular season player, but he'll never do much in the playoffs (unless someone else is carrying the team).

IT's TS% vs Washington was 60%, while John Wall's was 49%. His defense is solid, but not enough to make up for the fact that he's so overrated as a scorer.

[Captain_Caveman]

John Wall is so overrated, I'd take any of Kyrie, IT, Lillard before him easily.

John wall is unbelievably good. I used to be down on him but he's taken it to another gear through hard work. When he plays pissed off, he's dominant.

I didn't come away with that conclusion in the second round, I was more impressed with Beal tbh.

Wall was *easily* the best player in that series, IMO. Just didn't have enough help.

A top 10 player in the league and strangely underrated. I put him on tier with Chris Paul and Anthony Davis.

[Fidel Sarcasmo]

John Wall is so overrated, I'd take any of Kyrie, IT, Lillard before him easily.

John wall is unbelievably good. I used to be down on him but he's taken it to another gear through hard work. When he plays pissed off, he's dominant.

Well then he certainly wasn't very pissed off against us, which is odd considering the animosity between the two teams.

He can't shoot and thus he can't score efficiently if you keep him in the half-court. Nice regular season player, but he'll never do much in the playoffs (unless someone else is carrying the team).

IT's TS% vs Washington was 60%, while John Wall's was 49%. His defense is solid, but not enough to make up for the fact that he's so overrated as a scorer.

The reason why we beat Washington in the playoffs last year is because their second unit was garbage. Their starting 5 was better than our starting 5 last year. This year, I take our starting 5 against them.

[VeryMuchWoke]

John wall is unbelievably good. I used to be down on him but he's taken it to another gear through hard work. When he plays pissed off, he's dominant.

Well then he certainly wasn't very pissed off against us, which is odd considering the animosity between the two teams.

He can't shoot and thus he can't score efficiently if you keep him in the half-court. Nice regular season player, but he'll never do much in the playoffs (unless someone else is carrying the team).

IT's TS% vs Washington was 60%, while John Wall's was 49%. His defense is solid, but not enough to make up for the fact that he's so overrated as a scorer.

The reason why we beat Washington in the playoffs last year is because their second unit was garbage. Their starting 5 was better than our starting 5 last year. This year, I take our starting 5 against them.

I'm not disputing that, I just disagree with the now popular notion that Wall is better than guys like Kyrie/Lillard/Conley. He may be better than them defensively but he's considerably worse on offense, especially in a playoff setting (which is all that really matters).

[Jakeopp]

John wall is unbelievably good. I used to be down on him but he's taken it to another gear through hard work. When he plays pissed off, he's dominant.

I didn't come away with that conclusion in the second round, I was more impressed with Beal tbh.

Wall was *easily* the best player in that series, IMO. Just didn't have enough help.

A top 10 player in the league and strangely underrated. I put him on tier with Chris Paul and Anthony Davis.

Anthony Davis >>>>> John Wall

[Captain_Caveman]

I didn't come away with that conclusion in the second round, I was more impressed with Beal tbh.

Wall was *easily* the best player in that series, IMO. Just didn't have enough help.

A top 10 player in the league and strangely underrated. I put him on tier with Chris Paul and Anthony Davis.

Anthony Davis >>>>> John Wall

He's in that area code, though.

Celts have been attached in rumor to basically every star out there, but never Wall. Because DC would be nuts to trade him. Wall is better than any three players from last year's team combined, and still better than anyone we have currently.

[OFWGKTA]

John wall is unbelievably good. I used to be down on him but he's taken it to another gear through hard work. When he plays pissed off, he's dominant.

I didn't come away with that conclusion in the second round, I was more impressed with Beal tbh.

Wall was *easily* the best player in that series, IMO. Just didn't have enough help.

A top 10 player in the league and strangely underrated. I put him on tier with Chris Paul and Anthony Davis.

I don't see how Wall was easily the best player in the series when it's debatable if he even outplayed IT, despite having a legit second option.

Wall: 25.1/10.3/3.4 on 39.8/28.6/83.7 with a negative +/- in 4/7 games

ORating: 107
DRating: 115
GmSc: 18.9

IT: 27.4/7.1/2.4 on 44.9/46.3/84.9 with a negative +/- in 2/7 games


ORating: 117
DRating: 118
GmSc: 19.5

I don't see how you can say Wall is strangely underrated when he is routinely placed 3rd on many peoples' top PG lists after Curry and Westbrook. Putting him in a tier with AD is insanity in my eyes, Paul is fine, but I also think he's overrated as well at this point.