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OFWGKTA wrote:

Captain_Caveman wrote:

VeryMuchWoke wrote:

It was 22 points on 18 shots, which is a lot better. While that's still not great in a vacuum, the team scored 92 points on 95 shooting possessions (79 FGA + .44*38 FTA). Jaylen was more efficient than the team as a whole and had the highest output. It's hard to criticize his efficiency in that context. Golden State is an excellent defensive team and our ball movement wasn't great. In fact, I think the only player more efficient than Jaylen was Horford.

Not to mention Jaylen was a big part of holding Golden State to 88 points to the point that Coach Nick is now saying Jaylen reminds him of Scottie Pippen:

Read on Twitter

My bad on reversing the 18 shots for 22 points. That's what I meant, and no, that actually isn't very good at all. It just stood out in a game where no one else could score.

Anyhow, I did vote Jaylen because he had both defense and scoring.

In the bigger view, our offense is basically subpar all around, and we miss Hayward there. But for how much abuse Marcus gets, it is well worth noting that Jaylen and Rozier are also not very efficient at scoring. Like Marcus, Terry also averages less than 1 point per shot. That is horrifying. Jaylen is more efficient, but still below league average among guys who actually get usage.

Jaylen's TS% is higher than Kyrie's

We are not a good offensive team, and are in fact below average in a 30 team league full of 10 trash teams.

Captain_Caveman wrote:

OFWGKTA wrote:

Captain_Caveman wrote:
My bad on reversing the 18 shots for 22 points. That's what I meant, and no, that actually isn't very good at all. It just stood out in a game where no one else could score.

Anyhow, I did vote Jaylen because he had both defense and scoring.

In the bigger view, our offense is basically subpar all around, and we miss Hayward there. But for how much abuse Marcus gets, it is well worth noting that Jaylen and Rozier are also not very efficient at scoring. Like Marcus, Terry also averages less than 1 point per shot. That is horrifying. Jaylen is more efficient, but still below league average among guys who actually get usage.

Jaylen's TS% is higher than Kyrie's

We are not a good offensive team, and are in fact below average in a 30 team league full of 10 trash teams.

No playmaker on the wing. Brown and Tatum too young and Smart not good enough on that side of the ball to do it effectively. Team was built around GH

One thing you are missing is how bad Brown shot early. His poor shooting really came in the first. When he got his footing he was lights out. It was not a great shooting night but it was pretty good after the start. I don't remember off top but I think he started 2-10.

OFWGKTA wrote:

Captain_Caveman wrote:

VeryMuchWoke wrote:

It was 22 points on 18 shots, which is a lot better. While that's still not great in a vacuum, the team scored 92 points on 95 shooting possessions (79 FGA + .44*38 FTA). Jaylen was more efficient than the team as a whole and had the highest output. It's hard to criticize his efficiency in that context. Golden State is an excellent defensive team and our ball movement wasn't great. In fact, I think the only player more efficient than Jaylen was Horford.

Not to mention Jaylen was a big part of holding Golden State to 88 points to the point that Coach Nick is now saying Jaylen reminds him of Scottie Pippen:

Read on Twitter

My bad on reversing the 18 shots for 22 points. That's what I meant, and no, that actually isn't very good at all. It just stood out in a game where no one else could score.

Anyhow, I did vote Jaylen because he had both defense and scoring.

In the bigger view, our offense is basically subpar all around, and we miss Hayward there. But for how much abuse Marcus gets, it is well worth noting that Jaylen and Rozier are also not very efficient at scoring. Like Marcus, Terry also averages less than 1 point per shot. That is horrifying. Jaylen is more efficient, but still below league average among guys who actually get usage.

Jaylen's TS% is higher than Kyrie's

Yeah, Kyrie hasn't exactly been lighting it up with his scoring this year. He finishes games strong, but the first three quarters have been lacking.

3D Chess wrote:Is there a team in the league that complains about the refs more than the Warriors?

Used to be Clippers, but CP3 rode outta town.... lol

tfmiii wrote:

3D Chess wrote:Is there a team in the league that complains about the refs more than the Warriors?

Used to be Clippers, but CP3 rode outta town.... lol

I'd say it's the cavs. They complain on makes and misses all game long. Also, they get away with stomping and jumping up and down the court while cussing and yelling at the refs more than any team could dream of. LBJ was on the bench cussing the ref multiple times and not a word was said.

Homerclease wrote:

Captain_Caveman wrote:

OFWGKTA wrote:

Jaylen's TS% is higher than Kyrie's

We are not a good offensive team, and are in fact below average in a 30 team league full of 10 trash teams.

No playmaker on the wing. Brown and Tatum too young and Smart not good enough on that side of the ball to do it effectively. Team was built around GH

true, but it's more than that. JB's output wasn't terribly efficient but the key thing is *it wasn't any worse than his usual output*. and the context to that is that they were facing a helluva a defensive team that basically shut down most of our options. it's about who's plastic and who's not, as KG would say.

i hadn't appreciated how good GSW has gotten on D. they trapped kyrie more effectively than anyone else. they simply shut down undersized or less athletic guys like marcus (take your pick) or roze. even tatum who has good length was flummoxed by their physical play. only horford stayed true but that's partly because he's the one position where we had a size advantage, and frankly he made some tough shots.

in that situation, you expect kyrie and horford to still be able to operate. they are the allstars and leaders. but who's going to step up and help them out when kyrie is doubled and horford isn't hitting 3's? not the plastic people.

Jaylen Brown, that's who.

he's the guy who has the size, strength, and athleticism to play against a team like GSW. not many people have that. he still doesn't know how to harness that, and so he isn't terribly efficient even against lesser teams. that's slowly improving. but the key point is his efficiency doesn't drop off like everyone else's when facing a tall, strong, and athletic team.

those are the kind of guys you need to play at a championship level, guys who aren't going to wilt. GH would obviously be a big help. tatum will get there but needs to add strength.

the next time we play GS they will probably focus more on JB, and we'll see if he has the BBIQ to adapt to that. but even if he disappears, that's ok, it means that less attention is being paid to other guys on the floor, and it opens things up. tatum for instance could really benefit from that.

Jaylen impressed the hell out of me this game. for the first time i honestly thought hey, this guy could be a key championship piece. maybe not the best player but yeah, a scottie pippen type.

I'd don't see the Brown/Pippen comparison.

Pippen was skilled.
-- He was a competent PG.
-- He was regarded as one of the best bank shooters in the league (I recall an article trying to pick the top ones the only names I recall are Pippen and Duncan, which gives a fairly narrow window as to when it might have been written).
-- The first guy I recall seeing inbound the ball off his opponent and catch it himself for a quick dunk was Pippen. (His victim was Suns guard Danny AInge.)

Tatum is the guy on the Cs who reminds me of Pippen, if anybody does.

Fencer reregistered wrote:I'd don't see the Brown/Pippen comparison.

Pippen was skilled.
-- He was a competent PG.
-- He was regarded as one of the best bank shooters in the league (I recall an article trying to pick the top ones the only names I recall are Pippen and Duncan, which gives a fairly narrow window as to when it might have been written).
-- The first guy I recall seeing inbound the ball off his opponent and catch it himself for a quick dunk was Pippen. (His victim was Suns guard Danny AInge.)

Tatum is the guy on the Cs who reminds me of Pippen, if anybody does.

I agree. I think Jaylen reminds me more of Michael Jordan - defensively. Offensively, he has a desire to play similarly to Jordan but he lacks the ball handling skills, the footwork and while Brown is extremely athletic, he is not even close to being the most athletic guy in the NBA like MJ.

What made MJ so awesome was that he was best scorer in the NBA by a huge margin and as a 6-7 SG was a menace defensively. In a series saving play I remember Smith of the Knicks getting rejected at rim 3 straight times by Grant, Pippin and Jordan. Having a SG who can switch and defend PFs was one of the things that made the Bulls unbeatable ( along with having SF and PFs who could switch and defend PGs too).

With Brown, the Celtics have the opportunity to be special defensively for a decade. He will never be like Jordan offensively but he is showing the ability to be a 15-20 ppg guy. If he can fix a few problems like his TOs while dribbling and some weak finishes at rim while continuing to make his outside shots more consistently he could be a star player.

I don't recall ever seeing 238 votes on VC thread. Damn.

Fencer reregistered wrote:I'd don't see the Brown/Pippen comparison.

Pippen was skilled.
-- He was a competent PG.
-- He was regarded as one of the best bank shooters in the league (I recall an article trying to pick the top ones the only names I recall are Pippen and Duncan, which gives a fairly narrow window as to when it might have been written).
-- The first guy I recall seeing inbound the ball off his opponent and catch it himself for a quick dunk was Pippen. (His victim was Suns guard Danny AInge.)

Tatum is the guy on the Cs who reminds me of Pippen, if anybody does.

Pippen as a 22 yo rookie was not the guy with those skills. He developed into a great passer and good shooter.

I will agree that the comparison still doesn't really fit for Brown....but defensively I kind of see it a little.

Tatum doesn't really seem much like Pippen to me either, except for size and build.

The Pippen/Jordan stuff is just laughable right now and likely forever with regard to Pippen and Absolutely times infinity for Jordan.

brackdan70 wrote:
Tatum doesn't really seem much like Pippen to me either, except for size and build.

They have a similar loping smoothness in how they move.

ParticleMan wrote:

Homerclease wrote:

Captain_Caveman wrote:
We are not a good offensive team, and are in fact below average in a 30 team league full of 10 trash teams.

No playmaker on the wing. Brown and Tatum too young and Smart not good enough on that side of the ball to do it effectively. Team was built around GH

true, but it's more than that. JB's output wasn't terribly efficient but the key thing is *it wasn't any worse than his usual output*. and the context to that is that they were facing a helluva a defensive team that basically shut down most of our options. it's about who's plastic and who's not, as KG would say.

i hadn't appreciated how good GSW has gotten on D. they trapped kyrie more effectively than anyone else. they simply shut down undersized or less athletic guys like marcus (take your pick) or roze. even tatum who has good length was flummoxed by their physical play. only horford stayed true but that's partly because he's the one position where we had a size advantage, and frankly he made some tough shots.

in that situation, you expect kyrie and horford to still be able to operate. they are the allstars and leaders. but who's going to step up and help them out when kyrie is doubled and horford isn't hitting 3's? not the plastic people.

Jaylen Brown, that's who.

he's the guy who has the size, strength, and athleticism to play against a team like GSW. not many people have that. he still doesn't know how to harness that, and so he isn't terribly efficient even against lesser teams. that's slowly improving. but the key point is his efficiency doesn't drop off like everyone else's when facing a tall, strong, and athletic team.

those are the kind of guys you need to play at a championship level, guys who aren't going to wilt. GH would obviously be a big help. tatum will get there but needs to add strength.

the next time we play GS they will probably focus more on JB, and we'll see if he has the BBIQ to adapt to that. but even if he disappears, that's ok, it means that less attention is being paid to other guys on the floor, and it opens things up. tatum for instance could really benefit from that.

Jaylen impressed the hell out of me this game. for the first time i honestly thought hey, this guy could be a key championship piece. maybe not the best player but yeah, a scottie pippen type.

Excellent post.