Pelicans (22-20) @ Celtics (34-10) – 7:30 PM, Tues, Jan. 16, 2018

[K For Three]

We are acting tonight like we just lost a playoff game.

[tlee324]

I didn't see the game tonight yet. Game thread seems interesting though lol

[PierceFan4ever]

Stevens put Kyrie in a bad spot. Instead of Tatum, he had Theis in which eliminates our 2nd best iso player in the game. Horford needs to be spoon fed because there's no way he would be able to back Davis down, Jaylen always disappears offensively in the 4th, and poor Theis isn't going to do much in crunch time although he hit a big three from Kyrie that pushed our lead to 5. It was Kyrie or Smart or bust. There's no way Tatum shouldn't be in those final minutes on offense.

[BfB]

People really need to calm down on single game reactions, especially on a 43-11 team. Guys aren’t going to be super heroes every night


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Jaqua92]

AD gets 45/16 and the basketball Einsteins in here are blaming Smart.

LOL

Thank god the world has your insight to protect it from the inept basketball thinkers. You're like an experimental AI that reacts to any negativity about Smart with a validation protocol of superior perspective. Even the tongue in cheek ones.

AD had a monster game dude. Kyrie had some poor choices. Smart had some poor choices. Brad did as well. It was a team loss and a monster game from AD, If I am gonna be serious and not clown. Stop being so protective of Smart and concerning yourself with the opinions of others, and have some fun man.

[Jaqua92]

Stevens put Kyrie in a bad spot. Instead of Tatum, he had Theis in which eliminates our 2nd best iso player in the game. Horford needs to be spoon fed because there's no way he would be able to back Davis down, Jaylen always disappears offensively in the 4th, and poor Theis isn't going to do much in crunch time although he hit a big three from Kyrie that pushed our lead to 5. It was Kyrie or Smart or bust. There's no way Tatum shouldn't be in those final minutes on offense.

I agree. Stevens experiment I guess. It was a winnable game against a talented team and Celtics played poor with questionable lineup.

We are probably about 10 points better than this team. Not a bad loss by any means.

[Captain_Caveman]

AD gets 45/16 and the basketball Einsteins in here are blaming Smart.

LOL

Thank god the world has your insight to protect it from the inept basketball thinkers. You're like an experimental AI that reacts to any negativity about Smart with a validation protocol of superior perspective. Even the tongue in cheek ones.

AD had a monster game dude. Kyrie had some poor choices. Smart had some poor choices. Brad did as well. It was a team loss and a monster game from AD, If I am gonna be serious and not clown. Stop being so protective of Smart and concerning yourself with the opinions of others, and have some fun man.

Homie, it was just silly and predictable. And inaccurate. Just not our best night, all around.

[Edug27]

AD gets 45/16 and the basketball Einsteins in here are blaming Smart.

LOL

Thank god the world has your insight to protect it from the inept basketball thinkers. You're like an experimental AI that reacts to any negativity about Smart with a validation protocol of superior perspective. Even the tongue in cheek ones.

AD had a monster game dude. Kyrie had some poor choices. Smart had some poor choices. Brad did as well. It was a team loss and a monster game from AD, If I am gonna be serious and not clown. Stop being so protective of Smart and concerning yourself with the opinions of others, and have some fun man.

Smarts the new Crowder. Deal with him for the remainder of the season and then next year when he’s gone everyone will pretend like they never liked him to begin with...

[Jakeopp]

AD gets 45/16 and the basketball Einsteins in here are blaming Smart.

LOL

Thank god the world has your insight to protect it from the inept basketball thinkers. You're like an experimental AI that reacts to any negativity about Smart with a validation protocol of superior perspective. Even the tongue in cheek ones.

AD had a monster game dude. Kyrie had some poor choices. Smart had some poor choices. Brad did as well. It was a team loss and a monster game from AD, If I am gonna be serious and not clown. Stop being so protective of Smart and concerning yourself with the opinions of others, and have some fun man.

Smarts the new Crowder. Deal with him for the remainder of the season and then next year when he’s gone everyone will pretend like they never liked him to begin with...

That describes most people we let go tbh

[Captain_Caveman]

Thank god the world has your insight to protect it from the inept basketball thinkers. You're like an experimental AI that reacts to any negativity about Smart with a validation protocol of superior perspective. Even the tongue in cheek ones.

AD had a monster game dude. Kyrie had some poor choices. Smart had some poor choices. Brad did as well. It was a team loss and a monster game from AD, If I am gonna be serious and not clown. Stop being so protective of Smart and concerning yourself with the opinions of others, and have some fun man.

Smarts the new Crowder. Deal with him for the remainder of the season and then next year when he’s gone everyone will pretend like they never liked him to begin with...

That describes most people we let go tbh

Not from me.

[UNCBlue012]

I had to be up extra early because of work, but all I see on Twitter is that Boston was repeatedly screwed by the refs and that AD and company received non-stop awful foul calls. True or nah?

[steefP2]

I had to be up extra early because of work, but all I see on Twitter is that Boston was repeatedly screwed by the refs and that AD and company received non-stop awful foul calls. True or nah?

A little bit. But we lost due to poor decision making through almost all of the game. This was ours to lose and we did. Refs were 5-10% of the problem, rest was 30-35% weird lineup being in too long and 60 ish % bad decisicions/hero ball.

[Jammer]

Here's why contracts should not be 100% guaranteed.

Because coaches can't get players to do the right thing.

Marcus Morris just jacks up his shot. He doesn't look for teammates; he does not adjust angles to set up a pass to teammates.

Well guess what, Marcus Smart is just as bad. Smart is the 10th best 3 point shooter on the Celtics (Morris is 8th). A decent guy would pass the ball to the better shooters when they get down to the offensive end. Smart has had open guys to his left and right and just jacked up shots. Ditto for Morris. Apparently Brad doesn't bench them, because he needs them to win. But if contracts were only 60% guaranteed, coaches would have more say. I'd love to see the owners put their foot down and make it a deal breaker that contracts are limited to 60% guaranteed. You'd see a lot more responsive play from some of the selfish guys.

My key point is that Morris' 5-13 shooting and Smart's 5-14 shooting lost this game (when they could have passed to better shooters).

There were plenty of opportunities for these two self-centered players to pass to better shooters, or slightly adjust their passing angle with a dribble or two and get the ball to Al Horford (5-9), Jayson Tatum (3-6) or Jaylen Brown (7-14), all of whom were having better shooting days. Kyrie may have been forced to go 8-24 because Morris and Smart were not giving it up and Kyrie was taking shots late in the clock.

[Edug27]

And he's given no indication that he wants out to this point. We're no where near the point where the Pelicans start fielding the best offers. And once we get there (assuming it even happens), there will be STIFF competition to get an elite, franchise big man. Dude is one of the best players in the league and can legitimately be a 1a on a championship team. Teams will be offering established stars for him, picks, prospects, etc. I just don't see anyway we don't have to include both Brown/Tatum.

Since you brought up Billy King... Only a GM of Billy Kings level of idiocy would dare allow AD to reach the summer of 2020. He will be moved before then.

Established star? Pelicans going to ask for Blake? Star for star rarely happens. And yes Boston has the picks (hopefully with LA/Sac) and prospects (Tatum/Brown).

It’ll be young players and picks like most trades are nowadays.

Not if he doesn't give them indication that he wants out. Go through NBA history and see how often teams jump the gun in trading elite, top 5 caliber players in their prime (in AD's case, he's arguably not even in his prime yet). They almost always hold on to those guys for dear life. He's not going to be moved with multiple years remaining on his deal unless he explicitly says he wants out.

Yes, I have no doubt teams will be offering established stars. As soon as the word gets out that AD is available, damn near every team will lineup to get him. Star for star is rare, but it's also rare that a player the caliber of AD at 24-25 years old is made available. Just absolutely no way only one of Brown/Tatum + picks gets it done. Not unless one of them break outs and becomes star player by then, which probably won't happen by next summer. At this point those guys are just promising prospects.

Ok. Let’s back up a second. Let’s list everything we know...

1. AD has 2 years remaining on his contract before he can opt out.
2. AD did a feature with Woj where he repeated how badly he wants to win. He also acknowledged it bothers him a great deal that he is not winning in NO... that he hasn’t been to the playoffs in several years. He also mentioned how you need 3-4 all stars in this league to win.
3. AD approached New Orleans front office last year about trade rumors.
4. Cousins is a free agent for the first time this summer.

Ok. Now that that’s out the way, here are my questions to think about...

1. What if the Pelicans don’t make the playoffs this year or get beat up in the first round?
2. What if the Pelicans start next season 20-20 again?
3. What if Cousins doesn’t resign?
4. What does NO do after next season when AD is pretty much an expiring? He’ll opt out for money reasons anyway right? Do they let him opt out without some agreement that he’ll resign? What happens to that franchise as a whole is they lose BOTH AD and Cousins?

Again. A lot of IF’s, so much we don’t know and need to let be played out. But if NO misses the playoffs or gets swept, and Pelicans are hovering around .500 mid season next year... tough decisions have to be made. AD made those statements to Woj for a reason. He bypassed all that Boston talk pregame yesterday for a reason. He could have said “Pelicans are the team I want to be with long term. Why are we talking Boston? I have no interest in playing elsewhere”.

My final question I ask you...

If Cousins leaves and AD becomes available this summer (just for fun).. who can offer a better package than some combo of...

Either Brown/Tatum
Horford
Rozier
Lakers 2-5 pick
Memphis pick

Can you give an example? Remember, only a team confident AD will resign would even make a deal for him if it requires giving up the farm. Orlando could give up Gordon.. but would they? Again, it’s back to the CP and Rondo scenario ... or the Paul George scenario.

[Bar Fight]

Since you brought up Billy King... Only a GM of Billy Kings level of idiocy would dare allow AD to reach the summer of 2020. He will be moved before then.

Established star? Pelicans going to ask for Blake? Star for star rarely happens. And yes Boston has the picks (hopefully with LA/Sac) and prospects (Tatum/Brown).

It’ll be young players and picks like most trades are nowadays.

Not if he doesn't give them indication that he wants out. Go through NBA history and see how often teams jump the gun in trading elite, top 5 caliber players in their prime (in AD's case, he's arguably not even in his prime yet). They almost always hold on to those guys for dear life. He's not going to be moved with multiple years remaining on his deal unless he explicitly says he wants out.

Yes, I have no doubt teams will be offering established stars. As soon as the word gets out that AD is available, damn near every team will lineup to get him. Star for star is rare, but it's also rare that a player the caliber of AD at 24-25 years old is made available. Just absolutely no way only one of Brown/Tatum + picks gets it done. Not unless one of them break outs and becomes star player by then, which probably won't happen by next summer. At this point those guys are just promising prospects.

Ok. Let’s back up a second. Let’s list everything we know...

1. AD has 2 years remaining on his contract before he can opt out.
2. AD did a feature with Woj where he repeated how badly he wants to win. He also acknowledged it bothers him a great deal that he is not winning in NO... that he hasn’t been to the playoffs in several years. He also mentioned how you need 3-4 all stars in this league to win.
3. AD approached New Orleans front office last year about trade rumors.
4. Cousins is a free agent for the first time this summer.

Ok. Now that that’s out the way, here are my questions to think about...

1. What if the Pelicans don’t make the playoffs this year or get beat up in the first round?
2. What if the Pelicans start next season 20-20 again?
3. What if Cousins doesn’t resign?
4. What does NO do after next season when AD is pretty much an expiring? He’ll opt out for money reasons anyway right? Do they let him opt out without some agreement that he’ll resign? What happens to that franchise as a whole is they lose BOTH AD and Cousins?

Again. A lot of IF’s, so much we don’t know and need to let be played out. But if NO misses the playoffs or gets swept, and Pelicans are hovering around .500 mid season next year... tough decisions have to be made. AD made those statements to Woj for a reason. He bypassed all that Boston talk pregame yesterday for a reason. He could have said “Pelicans are the team I want to be with long term. Why are we talking Boston? I have no interest in playing elsewhere”.

My final question I ask you...

If Cousins leaves and AD becomes available this summer (just for fun).. who can offer a better package than some combo of...

Either Brown/Tatum
Horford
Rozier
Lakers 2-5 pick
Memphis pick

Can you give an example? Remember, only a team confident AD will resign would even make a deal for him if it requires giving up the farm. Orlando could give up Gordon.. but would they? Again, it’s back to the CP and Rondo scenario ... or the Paul George scenario.

And it was just reported today (or yesterday) by Woj that there is nothing to the AD to Boston rumors, and AD is happy in NO.

I'll answer all your questions in one go: None of that matters unless AD makes it clear (basically explicitly says) he wants out. The Pelicans may never get a player the caliber of AD again in the next 20+ years, they are not going to blow up the team and sell him off if they don't do as well as expected unless they know for sure he's gone. They'll take every opportunity they can to appease him and coerce him into staying. The same thing damn near every franchise in NBA history has done with a generational talent at his age.

As far as who can offer more, I don't know...anyone who offers a prospect/player that the Pels happen to like more than whichever of Brown/Tatum the Celtics include? If we're only giving up 1 bluechip prospect, there will be stiff competition because a bunch of other teams have bluechip prospects too. A 32-33 year old Horford would mean almost nothing to a rebuilding team (which is what they'd be if they trade AD for that package), Rozier is a throw in. The picks are nice but other teams have picks too and they are still ultimately unknown entities. I just see absolutely no way the Pels don't demand both Brown and Tatum.

You're also underestimating Davis' value if you think teams won't trade for him without an agreement. A team just traded for Paul George this summer (and MANY other teams, including us, were interested) when there is good indication that he's bolting to LA. AD is a much better player than PG.

[Edug27]

Not if he doesn't give them indication that he wants out. Go through NBA history and see how often teams jump the gun in trading elite, top 5 caliber players in their prime (in AD's case, he's arguably not even in his prime yet). They almost always hold on to those guys for dear life. He's not going to be moved with multiple years remaining on his deal unless he explicitly says he wants out.

Yes, I have no doubt teams will be offering established stars. As soon as the word gets out that AD is available, damn near every team will lineup to get him. Star for star is rare, but it's also rare that a player the caliber of AD at 24-25 years old is made available. Just absolutely no way only one of Brown/Tatum + picks gets it done. Not unless one of them break outs and becomes star player by then, which probably won't happen by next summer. At this point those guys are just promising prospects.

Ok. Let’s back up a second. Let’s list everything we know...

1. AD has 2 years remaining on his contract before he can opt out.
2. AD did a feature with Woj where he repeated how badly he wants to win. He also acknowledged it bothers him a great deal that he is not winning in NO... that he hasn’t been to the playoffs in several years. He also mentioned how you need 3-4 all stars in this league to win.
3. AD approached New Orleans front office last year about trade rumors.
4. Cousins is a free agent for the first time this summer.

Ok. Now that that’s out the way, here are my questions to think about...

1. What if the Pelicans don’t make the playoffs this year or get beat up in the first round?
2. What if the Pelicans start next season 20-20 again?
3. What if Cousins doesn’t resign?
4. What does NO do after next season when AD is pretty much an expiring? He’ll opt out for money reasons anyway right? Do they let him opt out without some agreement that he’ll resign? What happens to that franchise as a whole is they lose BOTH AD and Cousins?

Again. A lot of IF’s, so much we don’t know and need to let be played out. But if NO misses the playoffs or gets swept, and Pelicans are hovering around .500 mid season next year... tough decisions have to be made. AD made those statements to Woj for a reason. He bypassed all that Boston talk pregame yesterday for a reason. He could have said “Pelicans are the team I want to be with long term. Why are we talking Boston? I have no interest in playing elsewhere”.

My final question I ask you...

If Cousins leaves and AD becomes available this summer (just for fun).. who can offer a better package than some combo of...

Either Brown/Tatum
Horford
Rozier
Lakers 2-5 pick
Memphis pick

Can you give an example? Remember, only a team confident AD will resign would even make a deal for him if it requires giving up the farm. Orlando could give up Gordon.. but would they? Again, it’s back to the CP and Rondo scenario ... or the Paul George scenario.

And it was just reported today (or yesterday) by Woj that there is nothing to the AD to Boston rumors, and AD is happy in NO.

I'll answer all your questions in one go: None of that matters unless AD makes it clear (basically explicitly says) he wants out. The Pelicans may never get a player the caliber of AD again in the next 20+ years, they are not going to blow up the team and sell him off if they don't do as well as expected unless they know for sure he's gone. They'll take every opportunity they can to appease him and coerce him into staying. The same thing damn near every franchise in NBA history has done with a generational talent at his age.

As far as who can offer more, I don't know...anyone who offers a prospect/player that the Pels happen to like more than whichever of Brown/Tatum the Celtics include? If we're only giving up 1 bluechip prospect, there will be stiff competition because a bunch of other teams have bluechip prospects too. A 32-33 year old Horford would mean almost nothing to a rebuilding team (which is what they'd be if they trade AD for that package), Rozier is a throw in. The picks are nice but other teams have picks too and they are still ultimately unknown entities. I just see absolutely no way the Pels don't demand both Brown and Tatum.

You're also underestimating Davis' value if you think teams won't trade for him without an agreement. A team just traded for Paul George this summer (and MANY other teams, including us, were interested) when there is good indication that he's bolting to LA. AD is a much better player than PG.

There’s a disconnect here. So it’s common sense that the Pelicans should trade AD if he wants out. No brainer. My point is what does NO do if he doesn’t say he wants out, but plans on opting out and weighing his options in free agency.

That. Is. My. Question.

You keep harping on AD not asking for a trade. I get that. KD didn’t ask for one either. Neither did Hayward. I’m questioning whether NO has the guts to allow AD to become a free agent.

[Bar Fight]

Ok. Let’s back up a second. Let’s list everything we know...

1. AD has 2 years remaining on his contract before he can opt out.
2. AD did a feature with Woj where he repeated how badly he wants to win. He also acknowledged it bothers him a great deal that he is not winning in NO... that he hasn’t been to the playoffs in several years. He also mentioned how you need 3-4 all stars in this league to win.
3. AD approached New Orleans front office last year about trade rumors.
4. Cousins is a free agent for the first time this summer.

Ok. Now that that’s out the way, here are my questions to think about...

1. What if the Pelicans don’t make the playoffs this year or get beat up in the first round?
2. What if the Pelicans start next season 20-20 again?
3. What if Cousins doesn’t resign?
4. What does NO do after next season when AD is pretty much an expiring? He’ll opt out for money reasons anyway right? Do they let him opt out without some agreement that he’ll resign? What happens to that franchise as a whole is they lose BOTH AD and Cousins?

Again. A lot of IF’s, so much we don’t know and need to let be played out. But if NO misses the playoffs or gets swept, and Pelicans are hovering around .500 mid season next year... tough decisions have to be made. AD made those statements to Woj for a reason. He bypassed all that Boston talk pregame yesterday for a reason. He could have said “Pelicans are the team I want to be with long term. Why are we talking Boston? I have no interest in playing elsewhere”.

My final question I ask you...

If Cousins leaves and AD becomes available this summer (just for fun).. who can offer a better package than some combo of...

Either Brown/Tatum
Horford
Rozier
Lakers 2-5 pick
Memphis pick

Can you give an example? Remember, only a team confident AD will resign would even make a deal for him if it requires giving up the farm. Orlando could give up Gordon.. but would they? Again, it’s back to the CP and Rondo scenario ... or the Paul George scenario.

And it was just reported today (or yesterday) by Woj that there is nothing to the AD to Boston rumors, and AD is happy in NO.

I'll answer all your questions in one go: None of that matters unless AD makes it clear (basically explicitly says) he wants out. The Pelicans may never get a player the caliber of AD again in the next 20+ years, they are not going to blow up the team and sell him off if they don't do as well as expected unless they know for sure he's gone. They'll take every opportunity they can to appease him and coerce him into staying. The same thing damn near every franchise in NBA history has done with a generational talent at his age.

As far as who can offer more, I don't know...anyone who offers a prospect/player that the Pels happen to like more than whichever of Brown/Tatum the Celtics include? If we're only giving up 1 bluechip prospect, there will be stiff competition because a bunch of other teams have bluechip prospects too. A 32-33 year old Horford would mean almost nothing to a rebuilding team (which is what they'd be if they trade AD for that package), Rozier is a throw in. The picks are nice but other teams have picks too and they are still ultimately unknown entities. I just see absolutely no way the Pels don't demand both Brown and Tatum.

You're also underestimating Davis' value if you think teams won't trade for him without an agreement. A team just traded for Paul George this summer (and MANY other teams, including us, were interested) when there is good indication that he's bolting to LA. AD is a much better player than PG.

There’s a disconnect here. So it’s common sense that the Pelicans should trade AD if he wants out. No brainer. My point is what does NO do if he doesn’t say he wants out, but plans on opting out and weighing his options in free agency.

That. Is. My. Question.

You keep harping on AD not asking for a trade. I get that. KD didn’t ask for one either. Neither did Hayward. I’m questioning whether NO has the guts to allow AD to become a free agent.

As I said above, I think history has shown that franchises will hold onto those guys unless they make it clear they're out. Your two examples are proof of that (and Hayward isn't anywhere near the level of AD).

[Edug27]

And it was just reported today (or yesterday) by Woj that there is nothing to the AD to Boston rumors, and AD is happy in NO.

I'll answer all your questions in one go: None of that matters unless AD makes it clear (basically explicitly says) he wants out. The Pelicans may never get a player the caliber of AD again in the next 20+ years, they are not going to blow up the team and sell him off if they don't do as well as expected unless they know for sure he's gone. They'll take every opportunity they can to appease him and coerce him into staying. The same thing damn near every franchise in NBA history has done with a generational talent at his age.

As far as who can offer more, I don't know...anyone who offers a prospect/player that the Pels happen to like more than whichever of Brown/Tatum the Celtics include? If we're only giving up 1 bluechip prospect, there will be stiff competition because a bunch of other teams have bluechip prospects too. A 32-33 year old Horford would mean almost nothing to a rebuilding team (which is what they'd be if they trade AD for that package), Rozier is a throw in. The picks are nice but other teams have picks too and they are still ultimately unknown entities. I just see absolutely no way the Pels don't demand both Brown and Tatum.

You're also underestimating Davis' value if you think teams won't trade for him without an agreement. A team just traded for Paul George this summer (and MANY other teams, including us, were interested) when there is good indication that he's bolting to LA. AD is a much better player than PG.

There’s a disconnect here. So it’s common sense that the Pelicans should trade AD if he wants out. No brainer. My point is what does NO do if he doesn’t say he wants out, but plans on opting out and weighing his options in free agency.

That. Is. My. Question.

You keep harping on AD not asking for a trade. I get that. KD didn’t ask for one either. Neither did Hayward. I’m questioning whether NO has the guts to allow AD to become a free agent.

As I said above, I think history has shown that franchises will hold onto those guys unless they make it clear they're out. Your two examples are proof of that (and Hayward isn't anywhere near the level of AD).

Right. But as I've mentioned, the Woj article is the first we've heard of AD's frustration towards the teams lack of winning. I suspect we'll hear more in the next 2 seasons as they continue to lose. And my hope is that the Pelicans learn from the Jazz and Cavs and not allow their only real asset to hit free agency. But again, time will tell. But even so... AD will be a free agent in 2 years because he will opt out for money reasons. What he does after that is anyones guess. I'd think he'd atleast go through the free agency process seeing it's his last contract in his 20's.