ImageImageImage

Pro Sports Anthem Policies, 2018 – NFL Eagles disinvited to DC; NBA may follow suit

Moderators: bisme37, Parliament10, shackles10, snowman, canman1971, Darthlukey, Shak_Celts, Froob

User avatar
GWVan
Analyst
Posts: 3,021
And1: 2,549
Joined: Dec 12, 2002
Location: The world's most famous beach
 

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Oppression? – (Kerr rips NFL's Policy) 

Post#41 » by GWVan » Fri May 25, 2018 12:02 pm

I'm so done with this. I canceled SiriusXM last year. I had stopped listening to political talk because it's to decisive to be productive at this point and sports talk became all about kneeling at the anthem. I was switching over to a book all the time so there was no point in paying for it.

For the playoffs I've had the Radio.com app to listen to WEEI. So after the big game 5 win I jump in my truck and they are talking about?....you guessed it.

I can't take it any more. The worse thing is EVERYONE IS WRONG.

There is nothing more dangerous than over the top nationalism and people who wrap themselves in the flag to take advantage of it. I'm uncomfortable demanding blind reverence for symbols from anyone, despite being closer to the generation raised in this atmosphere post world war 2 and having a better understanding than most of why this bothers them so much. (side note- why do you all keep voting for them, why is this country run by people who can't operate a smart phone?)

On the other hand if you take a job then you abide by the conditions of that job or move on. It is not your place to make a political statement when you are representing your employer - do it anywhere else. Also understand if you are in the entertainment industry it is the audience who ultimately pays your bills and doing something that pisses off half of them is a foolish move and against your self interest.

So you ALL piss me off and when I turn on sports radio I want to hear sports talk, take this crap to another channel.

/rant

I have to go now I hear some kids on my front lawn
Full of sound and fury; signifying nothing
User avatar
tlee324
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 19,945
And1: 8,352
Joined: Jun 29, 2003
Location: Celtic Nation
       

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Oppression? – (Kerr rips NFL's Policy) 

Post#42 » by tlee324 » Fri May 25, 2018 12:32 pm

When nationalism and capitalism collide....
Image
User avatar
Parliament10
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 45,698
And1: 53,225
Joined: Jul 24, 2009
       

Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Oppression? – (Kerr rips NFL's Policy) 

Post#43 » by Parliament10 » Fri May 25, 2018 2:10 pm

jcappy wrote:If you saw the tazing of Sterling Brown on last night's news for parking at 2AM in a disability space, you will appreciate what these protests are all about. If you have won a voice by your excellence, you have a obligation to use that voice on behalf of those who don't, and even on behalf of those who do (Sterling Brown).

Michael Jordan said on a few occasions "I'm a well-paid slave." Well these NFL players and their supporters refuse to be "well-paid slaves."

This is the Main Issue. (Good Point.)
Minorities are NOT being treated fairly.

This is not a new thing, either.
Thus, it is something that should be rectified.

SLAVE -- one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence.
Slavery, for all intents and purposes, has yet to end, in the U.S.

IF SUCH A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF WHITE MEN, WERE BEING KILLED BY MINORITY POLICE.
THEN Y'ALL WOULD BE SINGING A DIFFERENT TUNE.













"You have to put the work in.
Nothing is given."

~ Jayson Tatum
Fidel Sarcasmo
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,358
And1: 3,073
Joined: Jul 03, 2003
Location: hartford, ct.
 

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Oppression? – (Kerr rips NFL's Policy) 

Post#44 » by Fidel Sarcasmo » Fri May 25, 2018 2:20 pm

I would argue that it could be unpatriotic to not vote just as much as it’s causing a problem in our anthem. But I do think it’s our right to not vote. I think it’s a dangerous precedent to blur the lines between a right and a patriotic duty. I honestly hope this blows up in the NFL’s face.
sully00
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 28,102
And1: 7,716
Joined: Jan 08, 2004
Location: Providence, RI
       

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Oppression? – (Kerr rips NFL's Policy) 

Post#45 » by sully00 » Fri May 25, 2018 2:36 pm

Parasite wrote:Exercise your first amendment rights at your workplace. See how that works out for you.


Yes the workplace is filled with oppression how does that justify turning a song that is supposed to symbolize the ultimate expression of freedom of the values we hold as a nation and the sacrifice made to protect those freedoms into a tool of oppression. There is no clearer definition of oppression than this it was its intention. For one powerful white man to impose his will on a bunch of other powerful white guys so they would impose their will on their employees who happen to be significantly Black and vocally opposed to that powerful white man.

To flip it on its head what if Obama had declared that the only version of the Star Spangled Banner to be played in public was Beyonce's. Then threatened to use his power and influence to make anyone who opposed his decree pay. Not a law passed or even urged just one man's will to make everyone do what he wants.
brackdan70
RealGM
Posts: 12,787
And1: 8,038
Joined: Jul 15, 2013
Location: Ogden, UT
     

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Oppression? – (Kerr rips NFL's Policy) 

Post#46 » by brackdan70 » Fri May 25, 2018 2:49 pm

GoCeltics123 wrote:
brackdan70 wrote:
GoCeltics123 wrote:Hot take:

No National Anthem before games.

That's my honest opinion.

I think maybe American Tune by Paul Simon might be more appropriate song. Standing optional

America the Beautiful maybe too

Nah. American Tune is a better representation
Sign here
User avatar
KamikazeK
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,476
And1: 5,511
Joined: Nov 17, 2012
   

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Oppression? – (Kerr rips NFL's Policy) 

Post#47 » by KamikazeK » Fri May 25, 2018 2:50 pm

Parasite wrote:Exercise your first amendment rights at your workplace. See how that works out for you.

Does your workplace force you to stand for the national anthem? :roll:
Image
Darth Celtic
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 38,602
And1: 17,013
Joined: Jun 26, 2003
Location: Big 3 will crush the east!
     

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Oppression? – (Kerr rips NFL's Policy) 

Post#48 » by Darth Celtic » Fri May 25, 2018 2:58 pm

leper-con wrote:I think NBA players should kneel with a sign, saying "kneeling for those who can't because there first amendment rights been taken away. "

They have a right to kneel at any time, and the NFL has a right to penalize them for it because it's a company with rules your follow in order to work there.

I can't wear political clothing to work, and I don't feel my rights are taken away because of it. The NFL is a private employer. I mean, the guys complaining about it work for a different employer with stricter policies against it. The NFL is a business, and they lost money, lots of it because of something, so they stopped the thing that was losing their company money. kind of a no brainer regardless of how you feel about it.
MrDollarBills = MrWelchesBets
Darth Celtic
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 38,602
And1: 17,013
Joined: Jun 26, 2003
Location: Big 3 will crush the east!
     

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Slavery? 

Post#49 » by Darth Celtic » Fri May 25, 2018 3:16 pm

and just so you know, i support the cause they are kneeling for. I also didn't like the timing of it because I am patriotic, but I liked the cause.

But remember this is a business, not a right. They aren't being penalized for being part of the cause outside of work.
MrDollarBills = MrWelchesBets
User avatar
Cyclical
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,766
And1: 3,397
Joined: Nov 13, 2005
     

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Oppression? – (Kerr rips NFL's Policy) 

Post#50 » by Cyclical » Fri May 25, 2018 3:17 pm

threrf23 wrote:No national anthem would break long held tradition and generate too much uproar. Plus, the anthem does perhaps serve as a relevant reminder that while we are cheering for athletes, there are those who are risking their lives to fight for our country, and its ideals (such as the 1st amendment and the right to speak out against government).


Sure, it would cause an uproar but some traditions don't make much sense.

Why is that so called relevant reminder restricted to sporting events? Should we then play the anthem before stage plays? Live music gigs? The movies? Stand up comedy? The ballet? I'm sorry, I just don't see any ties between cheering for my favorite team and nationalism / patriotism / a flag / the military, etc. It's all about 12 players, a coaching staff and competition. That should be more than enough.
sam_I_am
RealGM
Posts: 16,412
And1: 8,951
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Oppression? – (Kerr rips NFL's Policy) 

Post#51 » by sam_I_am » Fri May 25, 2018 3:27 pm

Parliament10 wrote:
jcappy wrote:If you saw the tazing of Sterling Brown on last night's news for parking at 2AM in a disability space, you will appreciate what these protests are all about. If you have won a voice by your excellence, you have a obligation to use that voice on behalf of those who don't, and even on behalf of those who do (Sterling Brown).

Michael Jordan said on a few occasions "I'm a well-paid slave." Well these NFL players and their supporters refuse to be "well-paid slaves."

This is the Main Issue. (Good Point.)
Minorities are NOT being treated fairly.

This is not a new thing, either.
Thus, it is something that should be rectified.

SLAVE -- one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence.
Slavery, for all intents and purposes, has yet to end, in the U.S.

IF SUCH A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF WHITE MEN, WERE BEING KILLED BY MINORITY POLICE.
THEN Y'ALL WOULD BE SINGING A DIFFERENT TUNE.















Are a higher percentage of minorities being killed? Is that really true? When you look at the number of people killed by cops more are white. As a percentage of total population a higher % of African Americans are killed. However, a higher % of murdered people and murderers are black and this of course means there are more situations where there will be a violent interaction with police and the difference in rate of cop killings between White and blacks actually correlates with this difference in violent crime. It is more a function of poverty, neighborhoods and the institutional dysfunction that limits job opportunity and housing opportunity than it is “bad cops”. That is why the rate of death by cop is similar for black and white cops too.

Its disturbing to see video of an NBA player getting tazed for a parking violation - even though he is a douche for taking up 2 handicapped parking spots BTW. The everyday harassment of minorities - driving while black etc. clearly exists.

I think it is long past time that we demand legitimate scientific study of this problem. The dialogue is too driven by opinion, fears etc. and while I’m sure there are bad cops there are a lot more bad people out there who make their job a lot harder than most people realize. We have a problem in this country but blaming the cops may actually miss the mark.
User avatar
Parliament10
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 45,698
And1: 53,225
Joined: Jul 24, 2009
       

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Oppression? – (Kerr rips NFL's Policy) 

Post#52 » by Parliament10 » Fri May 25, 2018 4:52 pm

sam_I_am wrote:
Spoiler:
Parliament10 wrote:
jcappy wrote:If you saw the tazing of Sterling Brown on last night's news for parking at 2AM in a disability space, you will appreciate what these protests are all about. If you have won a voice by your excellence, you have a obligation to use that voice on behalf of those who don't, and even on behalf of those who do (Sterling Brown).

Michael Jordan said on a few occasions "I'm a well-paid slave." Well these NFL players and their supporters refuse to be "well-paid slaves."

This is the Main Issue. (Good Point.)
Minorities are NOT being treated fairly.

This is not a new thing, either.
Thus, it is something that should be rectified.

SLAVE -- one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence.
Slavery, for all intents and purposes, has yet to end, in the U.S.

IF SUCH A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF WHITE MEN, WERE BEING KILLED BY MINORITY POLICE.
THEN Y'ALL WOULD BE SINGING A DIFFERENT TUNE.














Are a higher percentage of minorities being killed? Is that really true?

After this question, the rest of your statement, is moot.
"You have to put the work in.
Nothing is given."

~ Jayson Tatum
User avatar
jmr07019
General Manager
Posts: 8,110
And1: 7,755
Joined: Oct 29, 2009
       

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Slavery? 

Post#53 » by jmr07019 » Fri May 25, 2018 4:58 pm

NFL is garbage
Show Love Spread Love
sam_I_am
RealGM
Posts: 16,412
And1: 8,951
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Oppression? – (Kerr rips NFL's Policy) 

Post#54 » by sam_I_am » Fri May 25, 2018 6:08 pm

Parliament10 wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:
Spoiler:
Parliament10 wrote:This is the Main Issue. (Good Point.)
Minorities are NOT being treated fairly.

This is not a new thing, either.
Thus, it is something that should be rectified.

SLAVE -- one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence.
Slavery, for all intents and purposes, has yet to end, in the U.S.

IF SUCH A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF WHITE MEN, WERE BEING KILLED BY MINORITY POLICE.
THEN Y'ALL WOULD BE SINGING A DIFFERENT TUNE.














Are a higher percentage of minorities being killed? Is that really true?

After this question, the rest of your statement, is moot.


Well that is just inflammatory, but I expect that these days anytime politics involved. Pretty standard technique to shut down any honest attempt at a conversation. The point I was trying to make is that the conclusion that in general the police are targeting and killing minorities may be a misrepresentation of the data. It’s easier to do that though when local governments and police chiefs try to hide the truth and “take care of their own”.
threrf23
RealGM
Posts: 14,591
And1: 4,377
Joined: Mar 22, 2004

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Oppression? – (Kerr rips NFL's Policy) 

Post#55 » by threrf23 » Fri May 25, 2018 6:46 pm

Slax wrote:
1. The NBA instituted this rule a while ago (2000 or so?), before kneeling during the anthem became politicized due to a combination of Kaepernick and other NFL players' protests and Trump honing in on kneeling players. NFL owners and Roger Goodell chose to change the rules to specifically target political protests by NFL players, but kneeling during a national anthem did not have any association with anti-police brutality or racial consciousness protests at the time the NBA banned it.


The NBA rule was instituted before 2000. In '96, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf was suspended a game for breaking it (and then came to a compromise).

https://theundefeated.com/features/abdul-rauf-doesnt-regret-sitting-out-national-anthem/
threrf23
RealGM
Posts: 14,591
And1: 4,377
Joined: Mar 22, 2004

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Oppression? – (Kerr rips NFL's Policy) 

Post#56 » by threrf23 » Fri May 25, 2018 6:51 pm

Cyclical wrote:
Sure, it would cause an uproar but some traditions don't make much sense.

Why is that so called relevant reminder restricted to sporting events? Should we then play the anthem before stage plays? Live music gigs? The movies? Stand up comedy? The ballet? I'm sorry, I just don't see any ties between cheering for my favorite team and nationalism / patriotism / a flag / the military, etc. It's all about 12 players, a coaching staff and competition. That should be more than enough.


Well, as a society, we tend to idolize athletes. Also, sports have a way of unifying citizens that other pasttimes do not. I see validity in your opinion, but I think the anthem is at least justifiable.

Now, the pledge of allegiance rubs me the wrong way...
Parasite
Starter
Posts: 2,087
And1: 2,223
Joined: May 06, 2005
     

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Oppression? – (Kerr rips NFL's Policy) 

Post#57 » by Parasite » Fri May 25, 2018 7:01 pm

KamikazeK wrote:
Parasite wrote:Exercise your first amendment rights at your workplace. See how that works out for you.

Does your workplace force you to stand for the national anthem? :roll:


The NFL isn’t forcing anybody to stand for anything. Don’t want to, stay in the locker room. They can protest there, per company rules. But then they wouldn’t be getting any face time would they?
Slax
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,431
And1: 6,722
Joined: Jul 08, 2010
Location: New York
       

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Oppression? – (Kerr rips NFL's Policy) 

Post#58 » by Slax » Fri May 25, 2018 7:15 pm

threrf23 wrote:
Slax wrote:
1. The NBA instituted this rule a while ago (2000 or so?), before kneeling during the anthem became politicized due to a combination of Kaepernick and other NFL players' protests and Trump honing in on kneeling players. NFL owners and Roger Goodell chose to change the rules to specifically target political protests by NFL players, but kneeling during a national anthem did not have any association with anti-police brutality or racial consciousness protests at the time the NBA banned it.


The NBA rule was instituted before 2000. In '96, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf was suspended a game for breaking it (and then came to a compromise).

https://theundefeated.com/features/abdul-rauf-doesnt-regret-sitting-out-national-anthem/

Appreciate the info, I wasn't sure exactly when the rule was created, but I knew it was a while ago.

I think an interesting parallel to the the NFL's anthem kneeling ban is the change in NBA dress code in the mid-2000's, which also faced (much less pronounced) controversy over concerns that it was racially targeted and restrictive of players' freedom of expression. That was far less politically charged than the anthem protests though.
Fencer reregistered
RealGM
Posts: 38,774
And1: 25,529
Joined: Oct 25, 2006

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Slavery? 

Post#59 » by Fencer reregistered » Fri May 25, 2018 10:26 pm

Athletes are celebrities 24/7, and that's a big part of them getting paid. Any analysis which overlooks this point is very likely to be wrong.

As Slax points out, the NBA imposes limitations on what athletes can do a few minutes before a game, but supports free speech at other times, including at team-managed press conferences. That's fine.

When players say really stupid or offensive things, e.g. in rap songs, the NBA reaches out to them one-on-one to ask them to tone it down. That's fine too.

The dress code while traveling on business was a little strong, I think -- but numerous players have subverted it with outlandish fashion choices, and the NBA has cheerfully rolled with that. So I think the way that played out is fine too.
Banned temporarily for, among other sins, being "Extremely Deviant".
User avatar
hickfromfrenchlick
General Manager
Posts: 7,732
And1: 9,115
Joined: Mar 22, 2006
Location: BROOKLYN
     

Re: Pro Sports Anthem "Standing" Policies, 2018 – Patriotism, or Slavery? 

Post#60 » by hickfromfrenchlick » Fri May 25, 2018 10:32 pm

I'm with the players, not the owners. But it sure as heck ain't slavery.
Image

Return to Boston Celtics