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Gordon Hayward Thread

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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1261 » by Kyrie For Three » Fri May 17, 2019 12:05 am

Make no mistake about it though, Gordon's Boston career with that brutal injury is the worst way to start. It will always be difficult to have a fresh start mentally here since he is just KNOWN as the guy who's ankle was snapped in half in the first quarter vs. Cleveland.

Part of me thinks it's some sort of curse here too with him, it's just so odd. That injury over shadowed everything about him.
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1262 » by KevinGamble34 » Fri May 17, 2019 12:17 am

I have no problem trading Hayward, but i don't want to include picks and/or young talent to do it. If next season he is not great then expect other teams to attach something to take on his contract. Better off riding out the season and no doubt he will opt in but be an expiring so better chance of trading him.

I am still hopeful he will.improve next season. Maybe we just need an a anonymous Bucks player to say he was a liability at both ends during the playoffs. Worked well when we played the Warriors the 2nd time :D
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1263 » by yazfan » Fri May 17, 2019 2:04 am

I have no issue trading Hayward, I actually do not think he is worth his $$$ even if healthy on this team.

I have followed Hayward since his Butler days and thru Jazz and Boston.

1. No idea how he got 2 Max contracts. He is great at personal branding and evidently GMs really like him. This is why the Jazz lost him, they supposedly low balled him as a RFA and then he got a Max offer from Charlotte and Jazz matched. Contract had a player option 1 year early which is why he got to Boston, otherwise would have had 1 year of Hayward & Mitchell
2. He has never showed the fight I like to see. Case in point the Delonte West incident. How anyone can let another player stick a finger in your ear and make an inappropriate remark just walk away is beyond me. As to the language, watch the video, West as he sticks his finger is Hayward's ear says "B&tch ass white boy".
3. Injury - Maybe he just isn't as hungry ? No one knows but Hayward, but maybe splitting his ankle in 2 put life in perspective. He gets paid either way which is a really bad break for the Celtics. NBA should provide some type of relief like 50% of salary when this stuff happens.
4. Trade value highest now - Hayward is a slow starter EVERY year even when healthy. I think the Celtics can get the most for him this summer on his potential versus playing an avg set of games early next year.

Personal Branding crap - I get it, it's 2019, but I wonder if that effected his chemistry with the team. When he releases a mini-series documenting his come back and he reveals he was pissed the Celtics were winning without him, I just wonder if some of the guys are like "screw you". I think Hayward'

Guess we will find out soon enough, off season may be more fun than last season.
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1264 » by MyInsatiableOne » Fri May 17, 2019 6:34 pm

robdog_5 wrote:He has 1 year left than a player option. If next year is a disaster I think he and Brad both leave anyways. I don’t think he stays around Boston to collect a check the next year. I see trading Hayward as a real negative in terms of optics and value.


Agreed. Good luck to the Celtics ever attracting an upper-tier FA ever again if they trade him. Whether the value is better or not, the optics would be horrible.
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1265 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Fri May 17, 2019 7:24 pm

Lol. The Clippers told Blake they wanted him to be a Clipper for life and that they planned on retiring his number, only to trade him away 6 months after. And this summer, they are in the market for KD, Kawhi, Butler, Kyrie, etc. Didn't hurt the Clippers at all. If Celtics can trade Gordon, I promise - there will be no long-term repercussions in terms of us wanting to sign a big free agent down the road. All NBA free agents care about is getting paid and having a chance to win. If they're too scared to come here because they're afraid to get traded, then it means they have zero confidence in their ability to fulfill that contract, and therefore, shouldn't be players that we should be pursuing anyways.
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1266 » by 31to6 » Fri May 17, 2019 7:55 pm

CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Lol. The Clippers told Blake they wanted him to be a Clipper for life and that they planned on retiring his number, only to trade him away 6 months after. And this summer, they are in the market for KD, Kawhi, Butler, Kyrie, etc. Didn't hurt the Clippers at all. If Celtics can trade Gordon, I promise - there will be no long-term repercussions in terms of us wanting to sign a big free agent down the road. All NBA free agents care about is getting paid and having a chance to win. If they're too scared to come here because they're afraid to get traded, then it means they have zero confidence in their ability to fulfill that contract, and therefore, shouldn't be players that we should be pursuing anyways.



yeah the 'can't trade Gordon bc optics' thing might've had some truth to it last summer, but this one? Not saying we can actually trade him (don't see much point in trying), but there's no optics angle anymore.
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1267 » by Charcoal Filtered » Fri May 17, 2019 8:46 pm

Not sure how Ainge and Olshey feel, but as a Blazer fan I would be willing to explore a Turner for Gordon trade.
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1268 » by soxfan2003 » Sun May 19, 2019 1:44 am

CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:Lol. The Clippers told Blake they wanted him to be a Clipper for life and that they planned on retiring his number, only to trade him away 6 months after. And this summer, they are in the market for KD, Kawhi, Butler, Kyrie, etc. Didn't hurt the Clippers at all. If Celtics can trade Gordon, I promise - there will be no long-term repercussions in terms of us wanting to sign a big free agent down the road. All NBA free agents care about is getting paid and having a chance to win. If they're too scared to come here because they're afraid to get traded, then it means they have zero confidence in their ability to fulfill that contract, and therefore, shouldn't be players that we should be pursuing anyways.


Sure not many long term complications in all probability since Hayward is just not an accomplished enough player for most folks to focus on -- he has only made 1 all-star team and did so on a team that doesn't get much media coverage most years -- but it could really hurt in the short to medium term. NBA agents and many NBA players will know and factor it in when dealing with Boston as long as Ainge/Zarren in charge.

So, I disagree with you here. I don't see KD going to LAC at all and players like Kyrie and Butler because of their ages/abilities are not players that can be afford to be choosy and rule out too many teams in advance if they want to ensure they get a max deal. When you are a FA destination and an area that produces many NBA players, you can get away with more than a city like Boston. Kahwi is considering them by all accounts but that is probably primarily because he was raised around LA and doesn't want to play in Lebron's shadow. There aren't tons of NBA players over the years raised in the Boston area that are more likely to overlook the hometown team messing with other players. We don't know if it was more even between Toronto and LAC whether he would say "the heck with the untrustworthy Clippers, they may just trade me within a half a year...."

The bigger factor you are probably not factoring in and literally every veteran max worthy NBA players knows about.....Hayward gave up very serious money to join the Celtics over the 5 year max offer presented to him by Utah. He gave up the 5th year and I believe a little money each year.

Blake got paid his 5 year max. I am not saying Blake didn't get played a bit. He did but Celtics would be messing with Hayward a lot more. Clippers tried to justify their trade of Blake by just mentioning unforeseen injuries.

Ainge not pulling this crap at the earliest opportunity is probably why he has a good reputation in the business among agents. NBA players obviously make decisions based upon multiple factors but I still remember the Bulls being a toxic organization for years with how they were perceived to treat Jordan/Pippen/Jackson....despite being a big market with 6 recent championships they were at a severe disadvantage in free agency. Word spread.

It really took Rose and years of misery to reverse that. Don't get me wrong, there is a balancing act here. No NBA player would blame the Celtics much if they unload Hayward at the deadline next year since he wasn't working out on a more balanced roster that gave the guy a legit chance to perform his best but I think a heck of a lot of them and their agents would look down on how Hayward was treated and say Ainge/Wyc not trustworthy.

If I was an agent, I'd be brutally honest and say the Celtics f over Hayward since they would have done so. With people already bringing up IT -- fair or not fair --, I think Celtics do need to take this all into account.

That being said, if the Celtics bring back 4 SF's next year and Smart who takes many SG minutes, Tatum/Brown(unless he moves to fulltime SG) have legit reasons to be upset. Celtics need to be concerned about that since the Celtics wouldn't be fair to Tatum/Brown.
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1269 » by FlatearthZorro » Sun May 19, 2019 9:05 am

Charcoal Filtered wrote:Not sure how Ainge and Olshey feel, but as a Blazer fan I would be willing to explore a Turner for Gordon trade.


I on the other hand as a Celtics fan, wouldn't consider Turner at 18 mils, even if Hayward is at 30+, Hayward still is younger and has the potential to be much better next year.
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1270 » by Worst_to_First » Sun May 19, 2019 9:25 am

From an outsider point of view I think Brad is better off having Hayward separated from him.

Hayward’s contract is not that immovable in my opinion and teams that would have cap space like the Jazz would be glad to have him back to help out Mitchell in the offense.

Get Durant with the newfound cap space, trade for AD using Tatum, Horford and whoever needs to get the deal done then convince Kyrie to stay. New Big 3 in Boston that could take out the Bucks and pre-KD Warriors.

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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1271 » by ParticleMan » Sun May 19, 2019 10:02 am

while Hayward is far from untouchable, he's also a perfect fit for brad's offense. but he's got to be a focal point, sort of the way horford is also. the trouble is when you have one guy who half the times down basically doesn't pass. we need hayward and horford to touch the ball at least once on every possession. either of them are terrific at making plays for others, which is how we play our best ball. at least one of those guys should be out there essentially at all times.

also, hayward needs to be fully healthy. i still think he wasn't totally right even at the end of the year, though he was a lot better than at the beginning.
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1272 » by brackdan70 » Sun May 19, 2019 12:48 pm

Charcoal Filtered wrote:Not sure how Ainge and Olshey feel, but as a Blazer fan I would be willing to explore a Turner for Gordon trade.

I am not willing to consider that lol
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1273 » by brackdan70 » Sun May 19, 2019 12:52 pm

Worst_to_First wrote:From an outsider point of view I think Brad is better off having Hayward separated from him.

Hayward’s contract is not that immovable in my opinion and teams that would have cap space like the Jazz would be glad to have him back to help out Mitchell in the offense.

Get Durant with the newfound cap space, trade for AD using Tatum, Horford and whoever needs to get the deal done then convince Kyrie to stay. New Big 3 in Boston that could take out the Bucks and pre-KD Warriors.

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That would not be enough cap space. Cs are basically a max contract OVER the cap if Kyrie and Horford and Hayward are back.
Need to clear two of those guys for one max slot.
Can you elaborate on your first point or just an opinion?
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1274 » by Worst_to_First » Sun May 19, 2019 1:04 pm

brackdan70 wrote:
Worst_to_First wrote:From an outsider point of view I think Brad is better off having Hayward separated from him.

Hayward’s contract is not that immovable in my opinion and teams that would have cap space like the Jazz would be glad to have him back to help out Mitchell in the offense.

Get Durant with the newfound cap space, trade for AD using Tatum, Horford and whoever needs to get the deal done then convince Kyrie to stay. New Big 3 in Boston that could take out the Bucks and pre-KD Warriors.

New

That would not be enough cap space. Cs are basically a max contract OVER the cap if Kyrie and Horford and Hayward are back.
Need to clear two of those guys for one max slot.
Can you elaborate on your first point or just an opinion?


Just an opinion. I think Brad prematurely inserting Hayward into the starting lineup adversely affected team chemistry. It is hard for Brad to approach things concerning Hayward objectively given that they go back to their Butler days.

Horford if he picks up his PO has to be included in that AD trade to create the cap space.
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1275 » by brackdan70 » Sun May 19, 2019 1:58 pm

Worst_to_First wrote:
brackdan70 wrote:
Worst_to_First wrote:From an outsider point of view I think Brad is better off having Hayward separated from him.

Hayward’s contract is not that immovable in my opinion and teams that would have cap space like the Jazz would be glad to have him back to help out Mitchell in the offense.

Get Durant with the newfound cap space, trade for AD using Tatum, Horford and whoever needs to get the deal done then convince Kyrie to stay. New Big 3 in Boston that could take out the Bucks and pre-KD Warriors.

New

That would not be enough cap space. Cs are basically a max contract OVER the cap if Kyrie and Horford and Hayward are back.
Need to clear two of those guys for one max slot.
Can you elaborate on your first point or just an opinion?


Just an opinion. I think Brad prematurely inserting Hayward into the starting lineup adversely affected team chemistry. It is hard for Brad to approach things concerning Hayward objectively given that they go back to their Butler days.

Horford if he picks up his PO has to be included in that AD trade to create the cap space.

Yeah he is not going to pick up his option just to be traded. Cs would be in the same boat if they traded Horford for AD, not enough room for a max slot. I dont know how much cap space NO has to absorb salary. Kyrie plus guaranteed contracts gets the Cs to just under the cap. An AD trade likely adds more Salary.

It’s conceivable but Cs would have to be left with Big three plus almost all minimum contracts. The need to get that far under the cap to sign Durant makes the scenerio nearly impossible
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1276 » by captain green » Sun May 19, 2019 11:47 pm

Trade him for an expiring 27 million dollar contract throw in some unproven youngsters for hayard and a single protected future pick.
Sucks he got hurt but because of hurting feelings or perceptions that why were keeping him is dumb and hurting us big time.
He isn't worth 10 mill let alone 30 jeez. He is basically done
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1277 » by Andrew McCeltic » Mon May 20, 2019 12:05 am

Charcoal Filtered wrote:Not sure how Ainge and Olshey feel, but as a Blazer fan I would be willing to explore a Turner for Gordon trade.


I’ve thought about that, there are a couple of scenarios where it could be in Boston’s interest.. but there’d have to be more coming back, in terms of salary and value..

Portland is one of the teams who could benefit the most from half a Hayward while he continues working back into form..
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1278 » by MaxwellSmart » Mon May 20, 2019 12:25 am

Hayward would look good in Dallas, next to Doncic and Porzingas...they have cap room...?
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1279 » by KGboss » Tue May 21, 2019 1:01 pm

MaxwellSmart wrote:Hayward would look good in Dallas, next to Doncic and Porzingas...they have cap room...?
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Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1280 » by UNCBlue012 » Tue May 21, 2019 1:35 pm

I wouldn't move Hayward unless there's an incredible opportunity coming from it. I really think Gordon is going to be really good next year. We saw flashes this year, particularly towards the end, but he's a great fit in Brad's system. Just my opinion, but he's going nowhere.
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