ImageImageImage

Gordon Hayward Thread

Moderators: Froob, ParticleMan, sully00, The Comedian, Parliament10, canman1971, djFan71

User avatar
greenroom31
Head Coach
Posts: 6,103
And1: 6,728
Joined: Nov 06, 2004

Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1421 » by greenroom31 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:40 pm

MUpacersSIC wrote:Would the Celtics be interested in a trade like this?

BOS Incoming:
-#50
-Future top 15 protected first rounder
-Lots of cap space

IND Incoming:
-Gordon Hayward
-#14
-#20


Not really. I like the Portland deal of Turner, Mo Harkless and a 1st much better than that.
MUpacersSIC
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,652
And1: 544
Joined: May 19, 2008
       

Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1422 » by MUpacersSIC » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:43 pm

greenroom31 wrote:
MUpacersSIC wrote:Would the Celtics be interested in a trade like this?

BOS Incoming:
-#50
-Future top 15 protected first rounder
-Lots of cap space

IND Incoming:
-Gordon Hayward
-#14
-#20


Not really. I like the Portland deal of Turner, Mo Harkless and a 1st much better than that.


Pacers trade would allow you to go after a De'Angelo Russell type AND someone else. Future first is comparable to Portland's first.
User avatar
greenroom31
Head Coach
Posts: 6,103
And1: 6,728
Joined: Nov 06, 2004

Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1423 » by greenroom31 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:47 pm

MUpacersSIC wrote:
greenroom31 wrote:
MUpacersSIC wrote:Would the Celtics be interested in a trade like this?

BOS Incoming:
-#50
-Future top 15 protected first rounder
-Lots of cap space

IND Incoming:
-Gordon Hayward
-#14
-#20


Not really. I like the Portland deal of Turner, Mo Harkless and a 1st much better than that.


Pacers trade would allow you to go after a De'Angelo Russell type AND someone else. Future first is comparable to Portland's first.


Yeah but you have us shipping #14 and #20 for a future protected first :crazy:
User avatar
Stadium5
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,775
And1: 3,332
Joined: May 04, 2013

Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1424 » by Stadium5 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:48 pm

MUpacersSIC wrote:
greenroom31 wrote:
MUpacersSIC wrote:Would the Celtics be interested in a trade like this?

BOS Incoming:
-#50
-Future top 15 protected first rounder
-Lots of cap space

IND Incoming:
-Gordon Hayward
-#14
-#20


Not really. I like the Portland deal of Turner, Mo Harkless and a 1st much better than that.


Pacers trade would allow you to go after a De'Angelo Russell type AND someone else. Future first is comparable to Portland's first.

We don't want Kyrie, and the other FAs are either not worth max or are hurt. I like D Lo though
MUpacersSIC
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,652
And1: 544
Joined: May 19, 2008
       

Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1425 » by MUpacersSIC » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:48 pm

greenroom31 wrote:
MUpacersSIC wrote:
greenroom31 wrote:
Not really. I like the Portland deal of Turner, Mo Harkless and a 1st much better than that.


Pacers trade would allow you to go after a De'Angelo Russell type AND someone else. Future first is comparable to Portland's first.


Yeah but you have us shipping #14 and #20 for a future protected first :crazy:



Most see Hayward's contract as a massive negative. You don't? :crazy: Sure, maybe the #22 instead of the #20.
User avatar
greenroom31
Head Coach
Posts: 6,103
And1: 6,728
Joined: Nov 06, 2004

Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1426 » by greenroom31 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:48 pm

KamikazeK wrote:
greenroom31 wrote:
KamikazeK wrote:Dang the disrespect and hate toward gordon hayward from this fanbase is just sad. Never seen a guy get injured and then treated like such crap before from the fans of his own team. I hope he comes back better than ever next year and y'all eat a massive helping of crow. Just pathetic.


How is it hate and disrespect to just be realistic about the situation?

Hayward is not what he was pre-injury and is 29 years old. The Celtics are poised to lose Kyrie, Horford, Baynes and possibly Morris. That would leave Hayward as the oldest guy on a team that is headed for a youth movement. He's under contract next year and then a (~$35M) player option for the following season. Maybe he makes us a few wins better, but unless we make some major moves in the next couple of weeks, we're likely out in the 1st round of the playoffs. Why not just send him to a contender where he can be a role player and bottom out/give minutes to the young guys?

You can try to make this about disrespect all you want, but the fact is it really doesn't make sense to keep him around unless you want to bolster his value to move him later.

y'all act like his career is done and he'll never be a good player again. He had one mediocre season coming off an injury.


It seems you didn't read a word of my post. Good talk!
User avatar
greenroom31
Head Coach
Posts: 6,103
And1: 6,728
Joined: Nov 06, 2004

Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1427 » by greenroom31 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:50 pm

MUpacersSIC wrote:
greenroom31 wrote:
MUpacersSIC wrote:
Pacers trade would allow you to go after a De'Angelo Russell type AND someone else. Future first is comparable to Portland's first.


Yeah but you have us shipping #14 and #20 for a future protected first :crazy:



Most see Hayward's contract as a massive negative. You don't? :crazy: Sure, maybe the #22 instead of the #20.


He's overpaid but could be useful as a role player, and his contract is only for 2 years. Also, it's not like I'm expecting any good players in return. I think a future 1st (that is likely to be in the 20s) and expiring contracts is a good and reasonable price. Otherwise just hold on to him for a bit and see if he can bolster his value.
DarkAzcura
General Manager
Posts: 8,039
And1: 5,869
Joined: Apr 21, 2006

Re: Hayward ? 

Post#1428 » by DarkAzcura » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:58 pm

Gooner wrote:
DarkAzcura wrote:
Gooner wrote:
We live in a reality after his injury.


He was still better than most of the Celtics last year once 2019 rolled in. He did more than just shoot shots unlike Morris, Rozier, Brown, and Tatum.

Like some of you guys realize he did end up putting up 12/4/3 numbers in ~25 MPG on 58% TS, correct? Those are really good numbers in 25 MPG coming off that injury, especially considering is low USG%. You all act like he didn't deserve to play 25 MPG. Contract aside, every team in the league would love to have a player putting that production up in those minutes with as low a USG as he had.


Those numbers had no positive impact at all. The point is, we saw Tatum and Brown contribute to this team. Hayward got the minutes he didn't deserve. He was not better than anybody apart from Rozier last year.


Completely wrong. When Gordon wasn't frozen out by his selfish teammates, his impact was massive. Any time he was given real opportunity, we looked unbeatable.
User avatar
ConnorHenry
Senior
Posts: 571
And1: 110
Joined: Feb 26, 2010

Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1429 » by ConnorHenry » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:00 pm

My name's Henry Connor.
Conner Henry was a Celtic.
Hence the pun.
Gooner
Analyst
Posts: 3,248
And1: 3,131
Joined: Sep 02, 2018
 

Re: Hayward ? 

Post#1430 » by Gooner » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:02 pm

DarkAzcura wrote:
Gooner wrote:
DarkAzcura wrote:
He was still better than most of the Celtics last year once 2019 rolled in. He did more than just shoot shots unlike Morris, Rozier, Brown, and Tatum.

Like some of you guys realize he did end up putting up 12/4/3 numbers in ~25 MPG on 58% TS, correct? Those are really good numbers in 25 MPG coming off that injury, especially considering is low USG%. You all act like he didn't deserve to play 25 MPG. Contract aside, every team in the league would love to have a player putting that production up in those minutes with as low a USG as he had.


Those numbers had no positive impact at all. The point is, we saw Tatum and Brown contribute to this team. Hayward got the minutes he didn't deserve. He was not better than anybody apart from Rozier last year.


Completely wrong. When Gordon wasn't frozen out by his selfish teammates, his impact was massive. Any time he was given real opportunity, we looked unbeatable.


It wasn't about giving him opportunity, it was about him playing well. But that happened about once in 10 games. It's funny how he gets all excuses in the world but everybody else was selfish, immature...it's double standard. I wonder if..for example Jaylen Brown, would get the same benefit of the doubt if he was in the same situation.
User avatar
sam_I_am
RealGM
Posts: 12,598
And1: 3,898
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1431 » by sam_I_am » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:03 pm

DusterBuster wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:
DusterBuster wrote:
The idea obviously isn't about getting Boston equal player value, it's about getting them out of Haywards deal early so they can retool the roster faster.

That said, you're also selling both guys a bit short. Harkless is a high level defender for the Blazers, he's just inconsistent offensively. And Turner is well Turner, but he's had a lot of success in Boston before, so I don't see why Stevens couldn't replicate that again.


Hayward is an expiring deal. He will opt out. He was good enough in last month of season and without Kyrie and Horford here will assert himself. There is no need to take other teams trash to “get out”. Just an illogical idea.

The reason to trade him is that we have 3 really good SFs and only need 2 and now have big holes to fill at C, PF and PG.


The only thing that's illogical is the idea of Hayward opting out of over 30million dollars.... He's not getting that level of money ever again. He'd be insane to opt out of that.


Yeah, I heard that said about Horford’s 30 million option too.
sam_I_am »2017:Kyrie isn't much of an upgrade over IT and he is **** crazy. Demands to be traded after 3 finals passing on supermax to go to Knicks. More talent around than IT did 2 yrs ago, no playoffs until Lebron came.Kyrie cant hold leads w/o Lebron.
User avatar
DusterBuster
RealGM
Posts: 27,652
And1: 12,295
Joined: Jan 31, 2010
   

Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1432 » by DusterBuster » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:08 pm

sam_I_am wrote:
DusterBuster wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:
Hayward is an expiring deal. He will opt out. He was good enough in last month of season and without Kyrie and Horford here will assert himself. There is no need to take other teams trash to “get out”. Just an illogical idea.

The reason to trade him is that we have 3 really good SFs and only need 2 and now have big holes to fill at C, PF and PG.


The only thing that's illogical is the idea of Hayward opting out of over 30million dollars.... He's not getting that level of money ever again. He'd be insane to opt out of that.


Yeah, I heard that said about Horford’s 30 million option too.


Horford is still playing at a high level and highly in demand. Hayward is coming off a serious injury and has looked like a shell of his former self. If you can't see the difference in that, that's on you.
Devilzsidewalk wrote:DB is like the ultimate Wolves troll
DarkAzcura
General Manager
Posts: 8,039
And1: 5,869
Joined: Apr 21, 2006

Re: Hayward ? 

Post#1433 » by DarkAzcura » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:09 pm

Gooner wrote:
DarkAzcura wrote:
Gooner wrote:
Those numbers had no positive impact at all. The point is, we saw Tatum and Brown contribute to this team. Hayward got the minutes he didn't deserve. He was not better than anybody apart from Rozier last year.


Completely wrong. When Gordon wasn't frozen out by his selfish teammates, his impact was massive. Any time he was given real opportunity, we looked unbeatable.


It wasn't about giving him opportunity, it was about him playing well. But that happened about once in 10 games. It's funny how he gets all excuses in the world but everybody else was selfish, immature...it's double standard. I wonder if..for example Jaylen Brown, would get the same benefit of the doubt if he was in the same situation.


If Jaylen Brown was being frozen out but wanted to do the right thing, yes, I would give him the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, he was one of the one's freezing out certain players at the beginning of the season in favor of taking poor shots.

I watched Hayward play, I saw a max guy who kept trying to play within the system while everyone else tried to play hero ball. It was clear as day, and it was disturbing to watch. I saw a former all star who willingly went to the bench when most others at his age in stature would have likely demanded a trade, fair or not. Ever wonder why so many people on this forum have said this was their least favorite team to watch ever? Even Maxwell said this was the first team he simply didn't like. On the whole, they were selfish and shot hunters. Horford, Smart, Hayward, and Baynes were the only guys who tried playing within a team concept. Brown finally got it by the end of the season, but it was really late.

Some of you guys saw a passive player who did nothing. I saw a player trying to actually play within the system his coach outlined, and other players completely doing their own thing which just leads to confusion for all players and a messy offense.
djFan71
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 6,515
And1: 5,971
Joined: Jul 24, 2010
Location: Finding places to dump excess Kool Aid
 

Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1434 » by djFan71 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:11 pm

DusterBuster wrote:
djFan71 wrote:The Portland package is intriguing, but ultimately selling low. Would need 2020 and 2022 firsts, IMO, to do now. Basically, a Conley light deal. Harkless would be perfect for a starting 4 that we wouldn’t feel bad playing a rook over if they developed, but is solid enough as a starter if they don’t. ET would make Brad (and his son) happy again after last year and provide some positional flexibility and playmaking off the bench.

But the better bet is to let Gordon recover and see how things stand at the deadline. I do have concerns about our best 3 players overlapping positions so much.


I just can't see Portland adding in 2 firsts (or Collins as the other poster mentioned). Maybe one, but at his price and the questions that still surround him getting back to being the player he once was, i just cant see Portland willing to go that far.

If the deal got done in the next few hours, I think the Blazers would gladly trade this year's FRP since they don't seem to want it anyway. If it's a deal later this summer, they may be willing to part with their 2020 pick, but itll be heavily protected, likely full lotto that reverts to 2nd rounders if not conveyed.

Yeah, I wouldn't if I were the Blazers either. Definitely not including Collins - I've said that before here. You don't want to pay for the Hayward doesn't fully recovery risk, which makes sense. But, we don't want to sell low. So, most likely no deal.
User avatar
Taget
Veteran
Posts: 2,675
And1: 1,756
Joined: Apr 24, 2004
     

Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1435 » by Taget » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:11 pm

Injuries are not just about the physical but the mental. It takes time for players to trust their body again. So there isn't a bad chance he'll improve like PG. But it is was a very serious injury and there are no guarantees that he will return to what he once was. Right now he as a commodity he's a former fringe all-star who may return to form with a multi-year salary that gets shorter every day. He has some value. But mostly as salary filler who may provide bonus value down the road.

The smart move is to keep him this season regardless. At best his trade value increases if his on the court play improves. At worst his contract is one year shorter and become more desirable for teams looking to shed salary who may be willing to give us superior value in order to do so.
[quote:545636310b="Darth Celtic"]man, these refs need to stop giving us the benefit of the doubt and start screwing us.[/quote]

Image
threrf23
RealGM
Posts: 12,718
And1: 1,979
Joined: Mar 22, 2004
Contact:

Re: Hayward ? 

Post#1436 » by threrf23 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:22 pm

DarkAzcura wrote:


I watched Hayward play, I saw a max guy who kept trying to play within the system while everyone else tried to play hero ball. It was clear as day, and it was disturbing to watch. I saw a former all star who willingly went to the bench when most others at his age in stature would have likely demanded a trade, fair or not. Ever wonder why so many people on this forum have said this was their least favorite team to watch ever? Even Maxwell said this was the first team he simply didn't like. On the whole, they were selfish and shot hunters. Horford, Smart, Hayward, and Baynes were the only guys who tried playing within a team concept. Brown finally got it by the end of the season, but it was really late.

Some of you guys saw a passive player who did nothing. I saw a player trying to actually play within the system his coach outlined, and other players completely doing their own thing which just leads to confusion for all players and a messy offense.


I thought Hayward was a guy who had no respect for Brad's system. I mean, he's ae guy who consistently played team ball, stayed even keeled, and made good decisions. Whereas, Brad very clearly prefers players that jack up quick shots while throwing a middle finger to their teammates. Brad wants his guys to try and play the hero, winning means nothing if we aren't a team of cartoon superheroes. If you're not trying to compete against your teammates, then clearly it indicates a lack of a competitive spirit.

I mean, if that's not the case, then Brad seems to lack influence over his players.

Semantics and bs hyperbole aside - he did not play like a max player this season. Of course, while he was close to a max player and our overpay was justified, he didn't play like a max player before we signed him.

Since entering the league, for the most part, the guy has always been underrated. His game isn't flashy and he has never been the type to consistently take over or wow. But he does just about everything "well" and he is typically in the right spots and making the right decisions.

If there is truth the notion that guys like Terry and Jaylen thought that he didn't deserve his minutes last season, it bothers me. Hayward is way more proven than those guys, needed to be reinserted into team chemistry, and perhaps most importantly, he played way better than those guys last year, all things considered. If they didn't see that, then it's a giveaway that they don't know what it is to play well. I am glad they have been exposed and hopefully Danny will take heed.
DarkAzcura
General Manager
Posts: 8,039
And1: 5,869
Joined: Apr 21, 2006

Re: Hayward ? 

Post#1437 » by DarkAzcura » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:14 pm

threrf23 wrote:
DarkAzcura wrote:


I watched Hayward play, I saw a max guy who kept trying to play within the system while everyone else tried to play hero ball. It was clear as day, and it was disturbing to watch. I saw a former all star who willingly went to the bench when most others at his age in stature would have likely demanded a trade, fair or not. Ever wonder why so many people on this forum have said this was their least favorite team to watch ever? Even Maxwell said this was the first team he simply didn't like. On the whole, they were selfish and shot hunters. Horford, Smart, Hayward, and Baynes were the only guys who tried playing within a team concept. Brown finally got it by the end of the season, but it was really late.

Some of you guys saw a passive player who did nothing. I saw a player trying to actually play within the system his coach outlined, and other players completely doing their own thing which just leads to confusion for all players and a messy offense.


I thought Hayward was a guy who had no respect for Brad's system. I mean, he's ae guy who consistently played team ball, stayed even keeled, and made good decisions. Whereas, Brad very clearly prefers players that jack up quick shots while throwing a middle finger to their teammates. Brad wants his guys to try and play the hero, winning means nothing if we aren't a team of cartoon superheroes. If you're not trying to compete against your teammates, then clearly it indicates a lack of a competitive spirit.

I mean, if that's not the case, then Brad seems to lack influence over his players.

Semantics and bs hyperbole aside - he did not play like a max player this season. Of course, while he was close to a max player and our overpay was justified, he didn't play like a max player before we signed him.

Since entering the league, for the most part, the guy has always been underrated. His game isn't flashy and he has never been the type to consistently take over or wow. But he does just about everything "well" and he is typically in the right spots and making the right decisions.

If there is truth the notion that guys like Terry and Jaylen thought that he didn't deserve his minutes last season, it bothers me. Hayward is way more proven than those guys, needed to be reinserted into team chemistry, and perhaps most importantly, he played way better than those guys last year, all things considered. If they didn't see that, then it's a giveaway that they don't know what it is to play well. I am glad they have been exposed and hopefully Danny will take heed.


Bingo on the last paragraph. It alarms me to see some fans feel similarly, though.

Stevens runs a read and react offense. He has since day 1. The idea is to read the decision and quickly (within 1 second) make the decision on whether to shoot, attack, or pass. The issue with this current team is that Brown, Rozier, and Tatum aren't particularly great at reading a defense. I'd argue Irving as well. All 4 of these players would get stuck in ruts where they didn't know where to move the ball, and when they incorrectly read the defense to attack, they got caught dancing with the ball quite often leading to a contested pull up. Brown and Tatum have the youth excuse. Rozier and Irving have no excuses especially considering they were our point guards. If Rozier and Irving can't read a defense to make the right decision consistently, the whole thing falls apart.

Guys like Smart, Baynes, Horford, and Hayward bought into the read and react system completely. I'm not even sure Tatum, Rozier, and Brown didn't "buy in" necessarily. I just don't think they had the BBIQ to execute it that well or they said screw it when Kyrie often went against the system.

Morris, surprisingly, was somewhere in between.
User avatar
ThirtyFour
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,696
And1: 2,062
Joined: Jul 15, 2010
       

Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1438 » by ThirtyFour » Tue Jul 2, 2019 8:41 pm

Read on Twitter
Pierce: The Celtics don’t celebrate anything but championships. The guys are definitely motivated and the younger guys are hungry to get out there and do it again. Once you get a taste of that success you want more.
User avatar
sam_I_am
RealGM
Posts: 12,598
And1: 3,898
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1439 » by sam_I_am » Tue Jul 2, 2019 8:49 pm

ThirtyFour wrote:
Read on Twitter


But Coach Morrison......Duster Buster said he’s a shell of his former self....can’t you see that?
sam_I_am »2017:Kyrie isn't much of an upgrade over IT and he is **** crazy. Demands to be traded after 3 finals passing on supermax to go to Knicks. More talent around than IT did 2 yrs ago, no playoffs until Lebron came.Kyrie cant hold leads w/o Lebron.
User avatar
Ed Pinkney
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,167
And1: 3,155
Joined: Jun 23, 2007
Location: Australia
 

Re: Gordon Hayward Thread 

Post#1440 » by Ed Pinkney » Tue Jul 2, 2019 8:57 pm

ThirtyFour wrote:
Read on Twitter



The team is always going to be putting some positive PR with a little spin on it out there, but I am really confident a close to Utah Hayward is what we are going to consistently be seeing next season.

Return to Boston Celtics