Gordon Hayward Thread

Tiny ball · Post #441 » by **Tiny ball** » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:22 am

SichtingLives wrote:
ozzykhan16 wrote:
ddb wrote:Gordon looks like a shell of his former self. Man, I really hope this is just extreme rust. He stinks. He's shown a few flashes and has had a couple solid games, but at the max this guy needs to play with more confidence.

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His free throw attempts are the lowest since his rookie year. Looks like he's afraid to be aggressive and doesn't want to get injured again.

I don't think aggression is the word for it. He's playing like he doesn't want to step on anyones toes. Looking off shots like a prime Kelly Olynyk, driving through the lane, saying "just browsing" and kicking it out to the perimeter.

regardless of where hes at physically or mentally, it is a fact that he needs to chuck more shots. I don't even care if they are bad shots. i seriously doubt this team will be elite when he does play better because the roster construction is an obvious poor mix of players in strange roles....but this team is pure mediocrity until he plays better.

They could have went to finals last year with out him. He needs to be sitting on the bench and earning his minutes. Brads pet needs to sit and earn his playing time.

Silky · Post #442 » by **Silky** » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:06 am

Last season this team was in a 16 game win streak WITHOUT gordon.

This year barely over .500 with him.

Gordon is the issue. Even healthy having 3 wings all starting is not gonna work. Al doesnt work starting at center and logging 28 minutes there.

And I thibk he is making brad a bad coach

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jfs1000d · Post #443 » by **jfs1000d** » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:36 pm

Green89 wrote:Paying him 31 mil to come off the bench. That's the equivalent of what the last three 6th man of the year winners made in total.

This is the issue.

F what they are getting paid.. People worry about getting value for max contract. We just need them to play better. If we are winning, and Hayward is at 14 and 5, then I am fine with it.

He has to play better. He doesn’t need to live up to what he is getting paid. Why? Because Tatum is massively underpaid.

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Post #444 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:38 pm

Gordon isnt the issue, guys. He’s been disappointing relative to his salary and expected production, but he’s still functioning as a solid NBA player. Most advanced stats have painted him as a slightly positive player this year.

His scoring is ****. But his ball handling and passing gave been good. His rebounding has been solid. His defense has been very good.

His scoring will come. For our team to click, we need him to continue to shake the rust out. Itll be a roller coaster through the ASG, but it should level out shortly afterwards.

JHTruth · Post #445 » by **JHTruth** » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:11 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:Gordon isnt the issue, guys. He’s been disappointing relative to his salary and expected production, but he’s still functioning as a solid NBA player. Most advanced stats have painted him as a slightly positive player this year.

His scoring is ****. But his ball handling and passing gave been good. His rebounding has been solid. His defense has been very good.

His scoring will come. For our team to click, we need him to continue to shake the rust out. Itll be a roller coaster through the ASG, but it should level out shortly afterwards.

While individually he has been OK I guess, he has completely screwed up the rhythm of the team. Probably not his fault but now the rotations are all screwy, everyone else's production has fallen off a cliff, and he's out there not scoring. It's a bad combo..

FeedReed · Post #446 » by **FeedReed** » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:16 pm

last night was pretty scary. he was mostly invisible out there. one thing that bothers me though is he never has the ball passed to him unless it is a set play in the half court offense. whenever they’re free lancing pushing tempo on a break he will be cutting to the basket or sprinting down the wing wide open, he never gets the ball. this would be his easiest scoring chances.

ConstableGeneva · Post #447 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:21 pm

FeedReed wrote:last night was pretty scary. he was mostly invisible out there. one thing that bothers me though is he never has the ball passed to him unless it is a set play in the half court offense. whenever they’re free lancing pushing tempo on a break he will be cutting to the basket or sprinting down the wing wide open, he never gets the ball. this would be his easiest scoring chances.

Most of the guys on the team aren't instinctive, capable, and/or willing passers.

JHTruth · Post #448 » by **JHTruth** » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:03 pm

ConstableGeneva wrote:
FeedReed wrote:last night was pretty scary. he was mostly invisible out there. one thing that bothers me though is he never has the ball passed to him unless it is a set play in the half court offense. whenever they’re free lancing pushing tempo on a break he will be cutting to the basket or sprinting down the wing wide open, he never gets the ball. this would be his easiest scoring chances.

Most of the guys on the team aren't instinctive, capable, and/or willing passers.

But a lot of his cuts he's not even looking at the rim, that's his problem. He's not looking to score like at all. Why would his teammates pass to him when he immediately dribbles it out or passes it like it's a grenade about to go off as soon as he gets it?

The concerning thing about Gordon right now is he's not really improving that much. He's really just becoming more passive as time goes on when he need his offense to get more assertive. His usage has gone down to 16% in Nov vs 19% in Oct. His assist % has climbed to 19% from 11% so it seems he's decided to become an good but not great facilitator that doesn't look to score. Not really that valuable to us right now. His TS% is still <50% in Nov.

My fear is Hayward needs more time to heal mentally and just isn't going to be effective this year. He's not gaining confidence in his offense as time goes on, he's losing it..

FeedReed · Post #449 » by **FeedReed** » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:39 am

ConstableGeneva wrote:
FeedReed wrote:last night was pretty scary. he was mostly invisible out there. one thing that bothers me though is he never has the ball passed to him unless it is a set play in the half court offense. whenever they’re free lancing pushing tempo on a break he will be cutting to the basket or sprinting down the wing wide open, he never gets the ball. this would be his easiest scoring chances.

Most of the guys on the team aren't instinctive, capable, and/or willing passers.

tatum, brown, rozier all SUCK at it.

FeedReed · Post #450 » by **FeedReed** » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:43 am

JHTruth wrote:
ConstableGeneva wrote:
FeedReed wrote:last night was pretty scary. he was mostly invisible out there. one thing that bothers me though is he never has the ball passed to him unless it is a set play in the half court offense. whenever they’re free lancing pushing tempo on a break he will be cutting to the basket or sprinting down the wing wide open, he never gets the ball. this would be his easiest scoring chances.

Most of the guys on the team aren't instinctive, capable, and/or willing passers.

But a lot of his cuts he's not even looking at the rim, that's his problem. He's not looking to score like at all. Why would his teammates pass to him when he immediately dribbles it out or passes it like it's a grenade about to go off as soon as he gets it?

The concerning thing about Gordon right now is he's not really improving that much. He's really just becoming more passive as time goes on when he need his offense to get more assertive. His usage has gone down to 16% in Nov vs 19% in Oct. His assist % has climbed to 19% from 11% so it seems he's decided to become an good but not great facilitator that doesn't look to score. Not really that valuable to us right now. His TS% is still <50% in Nov.

My fear is Hayward needs more time to heal mentally and just isn't going to be effective this year. He's not gaining confidence in his offense as time goes on, he's losing it..

from what i see, he is constantly open in transition, and i assume would be looking to score, but tunnel visioners like tatum, brown, and rozier NEVER pass him the ball. basically every time he sprints down court he's ahead of everyone else. only time he gets it is when they're in the half court offense, so yea, he's more likely to pass in that case.

GuyClinch · Post #451 » by **GuyClinch** » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:52 am

Let's not shift the blame - I think a few games ago he was looking good. But he has regressed. It supposed to be get ball - make basketball move - not at like he is scared of it.. <g>

Andrew McCeltic · Post #452 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:12 am

He’s fine - he’s working his way back - physical healing isn’t about effort. He just clearly has no vertical and knows it - he can’t go to the run without getting stuffed, and he can’t shoot over people, so he needs a lot of space to take a perimeter shot.

The only way he’d be at fault is if he’s got his vertical back but is restraining his leaps because he’s afraid of coming down wrong. I don’t think that’s the case - he’s just not back yet in his legs. The running muscles, start and stop muscles and up and down muscles are all different.

It’s possible he won’t even be right until next year, if he needs a summer at full health to work on building back up the muscles in his legs.

Post #453 » by **K For Three** » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:18 am

Pierce might be a Celtics homer, but he thinks Gordon needs more time. Maybe 40 games.

Watch on YouTube

Dave_From_NB · Post #454 » by **Dave_From_NB** » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:19 am

Cripes, I'm holding my breath every time he goes within 5 feet of the rim. I can't imagine what must go through his mind when he does it. I see one of the few guys who knows how to play team basketball out there, rather than a guy whose instinct is to go ISO. So I see the potential for the team. We just have to live through him getting his mindset back to normal - I'm not so sure that a lot of the apparent lack of explosiveness isn't related to him being tentative to get into "harms way".

denmuscles · Post #455 » by **denmuscles** » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:21 am

If you guys think Hayward is an issue you got a reality check coming your way.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #456 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:24 am

It’s also more disappointing because the buzz before the season was how Kyrie and Hayward both looked great - when Kyrie started the season at about 80 percent and Gordon 60.

fallguy · Post #457 » by **fallguy** » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:36 am

Kyrie For Three wrote:Pierce might be a Celtics homer, but he thinks Gordon needs more time. Maybe 40 games.

Watch on YouTube

Yes, exactly.

I'm in the 'Hayward has been pretty useless' camp but I'm okay with that. This is going to take time.

fallguy · Post #458 » by **fallguy** » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:38 am

Andrew McCeltic wrote:It’s also more disappointing because the buzz before the season was how Kyrie and Hayward both looked great - when Kyrie started the season at about 80 percent and Gordon 60.

You can still see the fear in Hayward. He had a point blank layup on a drive last night and chose to hurl it to the corner. He wants no part of contact or anyone contesting his shot. But that'll change over time.

Post #459 » by **djFan71** » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:51 am

fallguy wrote:
Kyrie For Three wrote:Pierce might be a Celtics homer, but he thinks Gordon needs more time. Maybe 40 games.

Watch on YouTube

Yes, exactly.

I'm in the 'Hayward has been pretty useless' camp but I'm okay with that. This is going to take time.

I'm in the same camp as long as sessions last 25 min or less if he's not helping. If he's rolling, extend his minutes.

return2glory · Post #460 » by **return2glory** » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:06 am

Kyrie For Three wrote:Pierce might be a Celtics homer, but he thinks Gordon needs more time. Maybe 40 games.

Watch on YouTube

I agree. At least 40 games. I’ve been saying he should be looking better around January and February.

The thing is you can ease the guy back into it. They are more focused on the minutes restriction. He passed that. It’s not a matter of, now let’s see if he can handle 40 minutes.

It’s about the mental and physical part now. It’s abiut fitting in with new teammates with his physical restrictions.

For some reason, I have a feeling he is going to have a good game vs the Knicks.