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The Knicks Scenario

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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#601 » by Floody100 » Sun May 19, 2019 11:53 pm

London2Boston wrote:
Floody100 wrote:As depressing as it is, I’m starting to accept that this is bound to happen.
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At least it isn’t the Lakers I guess lol



KD and Kyrie is a formality.


AD too and I may just never watch sports again between the NBA and Man United. :banghead:


I miss the days when there weren’t super teams :(
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#602 » by Edug27 » Mon May 20, 2019 12:01 am

Floody100 wrote:As depressing as it is, I’m starting to accept that this is bound to happen.
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At least it isn’t the Lakers I guess lol


More likely than not.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#603 » by SmartWentCrazy » Mon May 20, 2019 1:16 pm

Floody100 wrote:As depressing as it is, I’m starting to accept that this is bound to happen.
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At least it isn’t the Lakers I guess lol


Dont see it happening. #3 and Mitchell Robinson is okay for an offer, but likely not enough. Kevin Knox and Frank Ntilikna are just salary filler and dont move the needle.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#604 » by zoyathedestroya » Mon May 20, 2019 1:25 pm

Can Kyrie please inform Danny ahead of time what he intends to do? Is that too much to ask? Do we really have to wait for July 1? Or he could just DM me on RealGM. I won't tell anybody other than Mike Zarren.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#605 » by SmartWentCrazy » Mon May 20, 2019 1:37 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:Can Kyrie please inform Danny ahead of time what he intends to do? Is that too much to ask? Do we really have to wait for July 1? Or he could just DM me on RealGM. I won't tell anybody other than Mike Zarren.


Hes going to— if he takes FA meetings, he’s not coming back
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#606 » by MagicBagley18 » Mon May 20, 2019 1:54 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:Can Kyrie please inform Danny ahead of time what he intends to do? Is that too much to ask? Do we really have to wait for July 1? Or he could just DM me on RealGM. I won't tell anybody other than Mike Zarren.


Hes going to— if he takes FA meetings, he’s not coming back


I admit it looks like he’s gone. Don’t look good for us at all but I think he may take the meetings regardless- no matter what he says he loves the attention.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#607 » by JR Hawks » Mon May 20, 2019 2:05 pm

I like how everyone conveniently forgets we can offer Kyrie the most money. That matters.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#608 » by celticfan42487 » Mon May 20, 2019 2:29 pm

JR Hawks wrote:I like how everyone conveniently forgets we can offer Kyrie the most money. That matters.


Pelicans can offer Davis the most money by far.

Does that matter?

OKC could have offer Durant.

CLE with LeBron.

It only matters for players that aren't really established all-star levels like a Horford or a Hayward. The fringe all-stars.

If anything Irving will probably do a 1+1 so he remains in control of the rest of his career and holds whatever franchise he has hostage. I assume he'll go through a new coach every 2 years if he isn't over ridden by whatever MVP he's playing with on whatever team he chooses to play on that particular season.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#609 » by celticfan42487 » Mon May 20, 2019 2:33 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Floody100 wrote:As depressing as it is, I’m starting to accept that this is bound to happen.
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At least it isn’t the Lakers I guess lol


Dont see it happening. #3 and Mitchell Robinson is okay for an offer, but likely not enough. Kevin Knox and Frank Ntilikna are just salary filler and dont move the needle.


I also don't see it happening.

Mitchell Robinson + #3 isn't all that much better than a Tatum and a MEM pick. I could see others argue that either way depending on what they think of both players and RJ Barrett.

Then when you go to the rest of the offers... Knox at best isn't far off Jaylen Brown depending on how much you believe in each and having extra years of control of Knox

Frank the Tank is just a bad version of Marcus Smart.

And after that we have 3 more first rounders this season for the pot. One of them pick 14 which has some value and would have more than any future first round picks NY could offer.


I just don't see how NY could beat a BOS offer unless Ainge doesn't pony up. Which I also don't see because he's been targeting this exact trade forever. And there's no point to build around Tatum when you have a legit chance at a ring.

I still don't think all that much of MIL's supporting cast around Greek Freak. And I could see Horford waiting it out and if MIL loses Brogdon and or maybe Lopez... if Kawhi leaves. I could see an AD/Horford/Hayward team being enough. Plug in whatever fillers around them that you want. And that's even baking in a lost of Irving and Rozier for nothing which I'm not certain is the case. Things move fast. Situations change.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#610 » by Froob » Mon May 20, 2019 3:21 pm

JR Hawks wrote:I like how everyone conveniently forgets we can offer Kyrie the most money. That matters.

Isn't it basically the most amount of years? He may not even want a 4+1, and if he doesn't, I'm not sure if there's much difference at all if any.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#611 » by amory87 » Mon May 20, 2019 4:14 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:If anything Irving will probably do a 1+1 so he remains in control of the rest of his career and holds whatever franchise he has hostage. I assume he'll go through a new coach every 2 years if he isn't over ridden by whatever MVP he's playing with on whatever team he chooses to play on that particular season.

I don't think Kyrie would make that kind of a bet on his knee. Especially since he won't have to when he signs on to play with Durant. There's no reason to expect he'd want out of that situation in 1 or even 2 years. Plus it'd be a bad way to start off the relationship with the franchise. He's already got a reputation of being a flake.

Personally I'm just really looking forward to when Boston fans are finally allowed to tell Kyrie what we actually think of him after all this BS. He's set to be an all time Celtic villain when he bolts to play second fiddle again and the boos are going to be relentless. Not that he'll care, but it'll be cathartic either way.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#612 » by celticfan42487 » Mon May 20, 2019 4:30 pm

amory87 wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:If anything Irving will probably do a 1+1 so he remains in control of the rest of his career and holds whatever franchise he has hostage. I assume he'll go through a new coach every 2 years if he isn't over ridden by whatever MVP he's playing with on whatever team he chooses to play on that particular season.

I don't think Kyrie would make that kind of a bet on his knee. Especially since he won't have to when he signs on to play with Durant. There's no reason to expect he'd want out of that situation in 1 or even 2 years. Plus it'd be a bad way to start off the relationship with the franchise. He's already got a reputation of being a flake.

Personally I'm just really looking forward to when Boston fans are finally allowed to tell Kyrie what we actually think of him after all this BS. He's set to be an all time Celtic villain when he bolts to play second fiddle again and the boos are going to be relentless. Not that he'll care, but it'll be cathartic either way.


Does that matter if he holds all the power.

Is a knee concern really going to stop an ATL or PHNX from offering him a max in free agency?

Would he sign a max like Hayward who is 3 +1 ?

In that case he gets a year of full MAX pay to recover and play again and redeem his value.

I think he should ride the 1+1 till about 30.

He's no CP3 so that max isn't coming in his later 30s. He's just never been more than an all-star level player to warrent that.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#613 » by amory87 » Mon May 20, 2019 4:56 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:
amory87 wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:If anything Irving will probably do a 1+1 so he remains in control of the rest of his career and holds whatever franchise he has hostage. I assume he'll go through a new coach every 2 years if he isn't over ridden by whatever MVP he's playing with on whatever team he chooses to play on that particular season.

I don't think Kyrie would make that kind of a bet on his knee. Especially since he won't have to when he signs on to play with Durant. There's no reason to expect he'd want out of that situation in 1 or even 2 years. Plus it'd be a bad way to start off the relationship with the franchise. He's already got a reputation of being a flake.

Personally I'm just really looking forward to when Boston fans are finally allowed to tell Kyrie what we actually think of him after all this BS. He's set to be an all time Celtic villain when he bolts to play second fiddle again and the boos are going to be relentless. Not that he'll care, but it'll be cathartic either way.


Does that matter if he holds all the power.

Is a knee concern really going to stop an ATL or PHNX from offering him a max in free agency?

Would he sign a max like Hayward who is 3 +1 ?

In that case he gets a year of full MAX pay to recover and play again and redeem his value.

I think he should ride the 1+1 till about 30.

He's no CP3 so that max isn't coming in his later 30s. He's just never been more than an all-star level player to warrent that.

I think it definitely matters, even if he has the power. He had plenty of power in Boston this year too and everything blew up because no one worked with one another. Chemistry matters, good vibes matter. Plus it's way harder for a GM to build a contending roster when your star players aren't committed beyond a year.

A knee injury wouldn't stop Atlanta or Phoenix from throwing him a max deal, but it's not all about the money either. I doubt he wants to find himself out in a basketball wasteland if he starts to have more injury problems as he approaches 30 and beyond.

I mean who knows. I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see him do a 1+1 because Kyrie seems reluctant to commit in general. But if he's willing to commit anywhere you'd think it'd be in his "home" city with KD by his side.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#614 » by sully00 » Mon May 20, 2019 6:27 pm

grindtime22 wrote:
Darth Celtic wrote:
djFan71 wrote:Mainly spitballing to see what nyk could do. I don’t think the number 3 helps kD and Kyrie next year. But ny doesn’t have a ton of salary to work with,hence including dsj. Even then, it’s hard to find better players that could be available in that 12-20M salary range c if you add other guys like Frank or Knox.

Everyone keeps saying this draft is weak, and Gordon and Richardson are both really good. The potential of Barrett in 3 years doesn’t matter to KD when he’s 33 years old. I know the Knicks have mortgaged the future before in vain. But, if they get KD and Kyrie, now is the right time to do it. I bet ORL fans scream bloody murder if you propose that deal. Not sure on MIA, but Josh was their best player this year.

I can tell you, the #3 pick in this draft is not worth much. I has value, but not value that it's had the last 3-4 drafts. This is more like Gainnis's draft. You might find a all star or MVP past 2, but odds are more likely you get a 5 year and out nba player instead.


I think #3 is still worth quite a bit, although some may disagree. I think Barrett has at least the value of 2016 #3 when we selected Jaylen after a clear 1-2 of Simmons, Ingram. There were probably 6 players that could have gone #3 in that draft though. The drop to #4 in this draft is very steep. The #4 pick in this draft probably equals #10 in 2017, maybe a pick or 2 later in 2018.


That is a fair assessment but I wouldn't have traded Anthony Davis for a trade package built around the #3 pick in the 2016 draft. Barrett is a good enough prospect to go #3 that isn't an issue in itself just don't see much flash to what the Knicks can offer anymore. I guess it will come down to how NOLA feels about individual players and the value of future draft picks.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#615 » by Bill Bradley » Mon May 20, 2019 6:44 pm

I think it comes down to whether the Pelicans think that Barrett (Duke) and Mitchell Robinson (has NOLA roots) who are on long contracts would help keep Zion in NOLA for a long time. I imagine that their biggest fear is that he leaves just like AD and they will pull out all of the stops to prevent that.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#616 » by sully00 » Mon May 20, 2019 7:16 pm

Froob wrote:
JR Hawks wrote:I like how everyone conveniently forgets we can offer Kyrie the most money. That matters.

Isn't it basically the most amount of years? He may not even want a 4+1, and if he doesn't, I'm not sure if there's much difference at all if any.


It is only 5 or 6 mil in the first 4 years where he can take a beating is on the annual value on the back end. So assuming he is line for another max deal in 4 years it will be based on a 37 mil salary instead of 40 mil after 4 years and 43 mil after 5 years. You also can't expect the max salary to keep pace with recent growth so money you know give up today you can never really make back because there will not be jumps in the max salary at current projections like there have been over the last few years.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#617 » by sully00 » Mon May 20, 2019 7:28 pm

Bill Bradley wrote:I think it comes down to whether the Pelicans think that Barrett (Duke) and Mitchell Robinson (has NOLA roots) who are on long contracts would help keep Zion in NOLA for a long time. I imagine that their biggest fear is that he leaves just like AD and they will pull out all of the stops to prevent that.


It is important to emphasize basketball decisions and not trying to placate the whims of a 19 year old. I think placating Davis too much over the years left their roster in a mess. It is very challenging for a first round pick worth a max salary to leave in FA. That means passing on a the 6 year Rose Rule extension, playing out your RFA year at probably 50 cents on the dollar to get to unrestricted FA.

Anthony Davis has been in NOLA for 7 years.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#618 » by Curmudgeon » Mon May 20, 2019 7:31 pm

Most big stars don't want 5 years any more. They want a player option as soon as they can get one to go back on the open market (or threaten to do so) and leverage the system again.. and again and again.

Also, the difference is trivial when compared to a star player's ancillary revenue: sneaker money, other endorsements, etc. etc.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#619 » by The Corey's » Mon May 20, 2019 7:35 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:
JR Hawks wrote:I like how everyone conveniently forgets we can offer Kyrie the most money. That matters.


Pelicans can offer Davis the most money by far.

Does that matter?

OKC could have offer Durant.

CLE with LeBron.

It only matters for players that aren't really established all-star levels like a Horford or a Hayward. The fringe all-stars.

If anything Irving will probably do a 1+1 so he remains in control of the rest of his career and holds whatever franchise he has hostage. I assume he'll go through a new coach every 2 years if he isn't over ridden by whatever MVP he's playing with on whatever team he chooses to play on that particular season.


Whatever team Davis ends up on can offer him the most money, it's different.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#620 » by sully00 » Mon May 20, 2019 8:10 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:Most big stars don't want 5 years any more. They want a player option as soon as they can get one to go back on the open market (or threaten to do so) and leverage the system again.. and again and again.

Also, the difference is trivial when compared to a star player's ancillary revenue: sneaker money, other endorsements, etc. etc.


But that was created by the huge jumps in the salary cap. That essentially ends this off season at that point guys will be back to being able to do better off their current salaries than going to the open market.

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