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The Knicks Scenario

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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#621 » by jfs1000d » Mon May 20, 2019 9:02 pm

hickfromfrenchlick wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:
Darth Celtic wrote:Knicks fans after the Lotto



Great 80s movie!


Had this on tape. I must have seen it a dozen times at least.

“You got to grab it with both hands and hold on tight!”


This is a great movie.

Loved it.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#622 » by ZeroTolerance » Mon May 20, 2019 10:05 pm

Froob wrote:
JR Hawks wrote:I like how everyone conveniently forgets we can offer Kyrie the most money. That matters.

Isn't it basically the most amount of years? He may not even want a 4+1, and if he doesn't, I'm not sure if there's much difference at all if any.


If Kyrie signs on long term, I see that as a good thing and will get off his case....but that dosen't seem all that likely to me...And just maybe Ainge has other ideas as well?

That would indicate that he wants to be here at least....If he were to sign anything that's less of a term, I see as him being a "top gun" for hire....And I can't see him or us ever winning anything that way...I also think that will be an end to the hope that our young players will remain past their rookie contracts...I suppose nobody cares a lick about that?....So just push all the chips to the center of the table and hope you have drawn the right card....

Either way the dye will be cast...just wish I had a better gut feeling about this?

If it's the Knicks that he signs with he will become Clyde Frasier II...score 30 and the Knicks will still lose....I doubt that KD would join hin...If it's the Nets though, that could well happen?...But I think KD will end up on the Clippers with Leonard and Kemba Walker...JMO
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#623 » by Curmudgeon » Mon May 20, 2019 10:43 pm

I have nothing against the Knicks, so I'd rather see Kyrie go to the Lakers.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#624 » by Ed Pinkney » Mon May 20, 2019 11:49 pm

jfs1000d wrote:
hickfromfrenchlick wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:
Great 80s movie!


Had this on tape. I must have seen it a dozen times at least.

“You got to grab it with both hands and hold on tight!”


This is a great movie.

Loved it.



Had it on VHS as a kid too, watched it many times. I think it might still be at my parents place actually.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#625 » by grindtime22 » Tue May 21, 2019 1:05 am

The Corey's wrote:
Whatever team Davis ends up on can offer him the most money, it's different.


The Pelicans can give him a 35% supermax, everybody else can give him 30%. The Pelicans can give him the most money.

It is different, because he can still get the 5 years with his traded to team. With that said, the ability to sign a DPE allows him to get it a year earlier and lock in 5 additional years right now.

The years and raises makes it different than Kyrie's situation, but the Pelicans can still give him a better deal and more money than anybody else.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#626 » by The Corey's » Tue May 21, 2019 1:28 am

grindtime22 wrote:
The Corey's wrote:
Whatever team Davis ends up on can offer him the most money, it's different.


The Pelicans can give him a 35% supermax, everybody else can give him 30%. The Pelicans can give him the most money.

It is different, because he can still get the 5 years with his traded to team. With that said, the ability to sign a DPE allows him to get it a year earlier and lock in 5 additional years right now.

The years and raises makes it different than Kyrie's situation, but the Pelicans can still give him a better deal and more money than anybody else.


Davis is under contract. If hes traded, that team can offer him what the pelicans can right now.

It's why he wanted so badly to be traded to la. He gets where he wants to without leaving money on the table to do it.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#627 » by grindtime22 » Tue May 21, 2019 1:35 am

The Corey's wrote:
grindtime22 wrote:
The Corey's wrote:
Whatever team Davis ends up on can offer him the most money, it's different.


The Pelicans can give him a 35% supermax, everybody else can give him 30%. The Pelicans can give him the most money.

It is different, because he can still get the 5 years with his traded to team. With that said, the ability to sign a DPE allows him to get it a year earlier and lock in 5 additional years right now.

The years and raises makes it different than Kyrie's situation, but the Pelicans can still give him a better deal and more money than anybody else.


Davis is under contract. If hes traded, that team can offer him what the pelicans can right now.

It's why he wanted so badly to be traded to la. He gets where he wants to without leaving money on the table to do it.


That simply isn't true

Getting traded maintains bird rights and the ability to offer 5 years with 8% raises. It does not maintain the ability to give him the supermax as a free agent or a supermax extension this offseason.

Getting traded is much more beneficial than joining another team as a free agent where he could only get 4 years with 5% raises starting at 30%. It does not give him the ability to get the 35% that he can get from the Pelicans under the designated player supermax rules. You have to be with your original drafted team or be on the team that you were traded to during your rookie contract. If you are traded after getting to your 2nd contract, the 35% is out the window (unless you are a 10 year vet). If he leaves the Pelicans, the starting salary is the same for every other team, traded to or not.

It is around a 30 million dollar difference over 5 years between the Pelicans and the team he gets traded to.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#628 » by Jaqua92 » Tue May 21, 2019 1:39 am

This Knicks superteam thing just feels like it's not going to happen

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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#629 » by The Corey's » Tue May 21, 2019 1:42 am

grindtime22 wrote:
The Corey's wrote:
grindtime22 wrote:
The Pelicans can give him a 35% supermax, everybody else can give him 30%. The Pelicans can give him the most money.

It is different, because he can still get the 5 years with his traded to team. With that said, the ability to sign a DPE allows him to get it a year earlier and lock in 5 additional years right now.

The years and raises makes it different than Kyrie's situation, but the Pelicans can still give him a better deal and more money than anybody else.


Davis is under contract. If hes traded, that team can offer him what the pelicans can right now.

It's why he wanted so badly to be traded to la. He gets where he wants to without leaving money on the table to do it.


That simply isn't true

Getting traded maintains bird rights and the ability to offer 5 years with 8% raises. It does not maintain the ability to give him the supermax as a free agent or a supermax extension this offseason.

Getting traded is much more beneficial than joining another team as a free agent where he could only get 4 years with 5% raises starting at 30%. It does not give him the ability to get the 35% that he can get from the Pelicans under the designated player supermax rules. You have to be with your original drafted team or be on the team that you were traded to during your rookie contract. If you are traded after getting to your 2nd contract, the 35% is out the window (unless you are a 10 year vet). If he leaves the Pelicans, the starting salary is the same for every other team, traded to or not.

It is around a 30 million dollar difference over 5 years between the Pelicans and the team he gets traded to.


You're asking him to commit to a team he doesnt even wanna play for so regardless, play the year out, get your 5 years on your new team that you're traded to or take the 4 years from a team he rather be at.

You're saying he can sign for 5 years right now, essentially making it a 6 year deal, well what's 30 million dollars to someone who's gonna make over 500 mil anyway?

Its alot of money, no ones asking him to take a pay cut and serve burgers at DQ
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#630 » by grindtime22 » Tue May 21, 2019 1:59 am

The Corey's wrote:
grindtime22 wrote:
The Corey's wrote:
Davis is under contract. If hes traded, that team can offer him what the pelicans can right now.

It's why he wanted so badly to be traded to la. He gets where he wants to without leaving money on the table to do it.


That simply isn't true

Getting traded maintains bird rights and the ability to offer 5 years with 8% raises. It does not maintain the ability to give him the supermax as a free agent or a supermax extension this offseason.

Getting traded is much more beneficial than joining another team as a free agent where he could only get 4 years with 5% raises starting at 30%. It does not give him the ability to get the 35% that he can get from the Pelicans under the designated player supermax rules. You have to be with your original drafted team or be on the team that you were traded to during your rookie contract. If you are traded after getting to your 2nd contract, the 35% is out the window (unless you are a 10 year vet). If he leaves the Pelicans, the starting salary is the same for every other team, traded to or not.

It is around a 30 million dollar difference over 5 years between the Pelicans and the team he gets traded to.


You're asking him to commit to a team he doesnt even wanna play for so regardless, play the year out, get your 5 years on your new team that you're traded to or take the 4 years from a team he rather be at.

You're saying he can sign for 5 years right now, essentially making it a 6 year deal, well what's 30 million dollars to someone who's gonna make over 500 mil anyway?

Its alot of money, no ones asking him to take a pay cut and serve burgers at DQ


No argument

The 1st quote was from somebody saying us being able to offer Kyrie the most money mattered. It followed with somebody saying that Davis could get the most from the Pelicans yet still wants out. That was followed by Davis can get the same from his new team, which would seem to nullify the previous point. He can't though, that is all I was saying. He is going to accept less to go somewhere else.

Is the 30 million significant? Probably not if you are unhappy with a ton of money. I would say the same applies to Kyrie. He has already made a lot of money. He is going to make a lot of money with his new deal. He is in movies. His shoes are among the most popular in the NBA and I'm sure he is making quite a bit or will make quite a bit on his next shoe deal. He has pretty big brand. Going to the New York market probably enhances that. Does 1 year/50 million more mean everything to Kyrie if he will already have secured 235 million (with a 4 year deal). It's likely he will recoup a significant amount of that 50 million anyway (he will only be 31 or even 30 if he takes a 3+1 deal). The money is important, but I doubt it is everything with Kyrie.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#631 » by celticfan42487 » Tue May 21, 2019 2:08 am

grindtime22 wrote:
The Corey's wrote:
grindtime22 wrote:
That simply isn't true

Getting traded maintains bird rights and the ability to offer 5 years with 8% raises. It does not maintain the ability to give him the supermax as a free agent or a supermax extension this offseason.

Getting traded is much more beneficial than joining another team as a free agent where he could only get 4 years with 5% raises starting at 30%. It does not give him the ability to get the 35% that he can get from the Pelicans under the designated player supermax rules. You have to be with your original drafted team or be on the team that you were traded to during your rookie contract. If you are traded after getting to your 2nd contract, the 35% is out the window (unless you are a 10 year vet). If he leaves the Pelicans, the starting salary is the same for every other team, traded to or not.

It is around a 30 million dollar difference over 5 years between the Pelicans and the team he gets traded to.


You're asking him to commit to a team he doesnt even wanna play for so regardless, play the year out, get your 5 years on your new team that you're traded to or take the 4 years from a team he rather be at.

You're saying he can sign for 5 years right now, essentially making it a 6 year deal, well what's 30 million dollars to someone who's gonna make over 500 mil anyway?

Its alot of money, no ones asking him to take a pay cut and serve burgers at DQ


No argument

The 1st quote was from somebody saying us being able to offer Kyrie the most money mattered. It followed with somebody saying that Davis could get the most from the Pelicans yet still wants out. That was followed by Davis can get the same from his new team, which would seem to nullify the previous point. He can't though, that is all I was saying. He is going to accept less to go somewhere else.

Is the 30 million significant? Probably not if you are unhappy with a ton of money. I would say the same applies to Kyrie. He has already made a lot of money. He is going to make a lot of money with his new deal. He is in movies. His shoes are among the most popular in the NBA and I'm sure he is making quite a bit or will make quite a bit on his next shoe deal. He has pretty big brand. Going to the New York market probably enhances that. Does 1 year/50 million more mean everything to Kyrie if he will already have secured 235 million (with a 4 year deal). It's likely he will recoup a significant amount of that 50 million anyway (he will only be 31 or even 30 if he takes a 3+1 deal). The money is important, but I doubt it is everything with Kyrie.


Yeah exactly it's simply not how supermaxs work.

AD doesn't get the most from wahtever team he's on next year. He gets the most by staying in NO only.

And he like all all-star or better players don't give a **** about the money he can get. It's well beyond depreciating returns.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#632 » by StojkoVrankovic » Tue May 21, 2019 2:09 am

Seriously guys, Kyrie will recoup that money by signing a deal with Bayside Honda
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#633 » by 31to6 » Mon Jul 1, 2019 4:20 am

31to6 wrote:As long as Dolan is the owner, the Knicks Scenarios hopefully will continue to play out as they have been. Emojis and poo.


bump
did like their Randle signing ------ which they followed with Gibson and Portis, aka Emojis and Poo.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#634 » by BRUNiNHO91 » Mon Jul 1, 2019 4:35 am

From Zion or Davis + Kyrie and KD to Randle, Portis and Taj.

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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#635 » by Bleeding Green » Mon Jul 1, 2019 4:39 am

Wow they really struck out and then locked up kind of crappy players. I figured they'd potentially strike out, but then mitigate the damage by not signing guys to stupid contracts. If only they just signed vets to 1 year deals and left open their roster to accept trades for stars/sign FA next year. RIP. All that tanking and all those good moves by Mills for nothing. Kind of shows how much the owner matters in the NBA. If the Nets and Knicks swapped owners, would it be crazy to assume that Kyrie/KD/DJ sign in NYK instead of in Brooklyn?

It's a very solid 10 seed team, maybe they'll get lucky in the lottery next year and end up with Wiseman.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#636 » by Ed Pinkney » Mon Jul 1, 2019 5:20 am

They have a few nice young players, all of their own first round picks and two of Dallas' first round picks coming. They need to tank the shiz out of the next couple of seasons and just try and rebuild like a normal team.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#637 » by BostonCouchGM » Mon Jul 1, 2019 5:37 am

Bleeding Green wrote:Wow they really struck out and then locked up kind of crappy players. I figured they'd potentially strike out, but then mitigate the damage by not signing guys to stupid contracts. If only they just signed vets to 1 year deals and left open their roster to accept trades for stars/sign FA next year. RIP. All that tanking and all those good moves by Mills for nothing. Kind of shows how much the owner matters in the NBA. If the Nets and Knicks swapped owners, would it be crazy to assume that Kyrie/KD/DJ sign in NYK instead of in Brooklyn?

It's a very solid 10 seed team, maybe they'll get lucky in the lottery next year and end up with Wiseman.


awful take. They already had young developing players at 4 out of 5 positions:

PG: DSJ, Ntilikina
SG: Barrett
SF: Knox
C: Mitchell Robinson

they just added 24 y/o PF/C Randle: 21-8-3 34% from three and 23 y/o PF Portis 14-9 39% from three. And they did it by signing them to responsible contracts.

Do people not realize young players take time to develop and gel? No, they don't. Because these geniuses are laughably writing off 19 y/o Knox as we speak. You know, the guy who shot 34% from three and is met with scorn? Meanwhile wOndErBoy Doncic shot 32% from three, was top 10 in turnovers and easily one of the worst wing defenders in the league and he's "generational".

Knicks are finally doing things right and casuals are lambasting them for it.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#638 » by Bleeding Green » Mon Jul 1, 2019 3:11 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:Wow they really struck out and then locked up kind of crappy players. I figured they'd potentially strike out, but then mitigate the damage by not signing guys to stupid contracts. If only they just signed vets to 1 year deals and left open their roster to accept trades for stars/sign FA next year. RIP. All that tanking and all those good moves by Mills for nothing. Kind of shows how much the owner matters in the NBA. If the Nets and Knicks swapped owners, would it be crazy to assume that Kyrie/KD/DJ sign in NYK instead of in Brooklyn?

It's a very solid 10 seed team, maybe they'll get lucky in the lottery next year and end up with Wiseman.


awful take. They already had young developing players at 4 out of 5 positions:

PG: DSJ, Ntilikina
SG: Barrett
SF: Knox
C: Mitchell Robinson

they just added 24 y/o PF/C Randle: 21-8-3 34% from three and 23 y/o PF Portis 14-9 39% from three. And they did it by signing them to responsible contracts.

Do people not realize young players take time to develop and gel? No, they don't. Because these geniuses are laughably writing off 19 y/o Knox as we speak. You know, the guy who shot 34% from three and is met with scorn? Meanwhile wOndErBoy Doncic shot 32% from three, was top 10 in turnovers and easily one of the worst wing defenders in the league and he's "generational".

Knicks are finally doing things right and casuals are lambasting them for it.

I'm really high on their young players, especially Robinson, but they didn't come into FA with the idea of shelling out 110 million to three flawed power forwards.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#639 » by BRUNiNHO91 » Mon Jul 1, 2019 4:09 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:Wow they really struck out and then locked up kind of crappy players. I figured they'd potentially strike out, but then mitigate the damage by not signing guys to stupid contracts. If only they just signed vets to 1 year deals and left open their roster to accept trades for stars/sign FA next year. RIP. All that tanking and all those good moves by Mills for nothing. Kind of shows how much the owner matters in the NBA. If the Nets and Knicks swapped owners, would it be crazy to assume that Kyrie/KD/DJ sign in NYK instead of in Brooklyn?

It's a very solid 10 seed team, maybe they'll get lucky in the lottery next year and end up with Wiseman.


awful take. They already had young developing players at 4 out of 5 positions:

PG: DSJ, Ntilikina
SG: Barrett
SF: Knox
C: Mitchell Robinson

they just added 24 y/o PF/C Randle: 21-8-3 34% from three and 23 y/o PF Portis 14-9 39% from three. And they did it by signing them to responsible contracts.

Do people not realize young players take time to develop and gel? No, they don't. Because these geniuses are laughably writing off 19 y/o Knox as we speak. You know, the guy who shot 34% from three and is met with scorn? Meanwhile wOndErBoy Doncic shot 32% from three, was top 10 in turnovers and easily one of the worst wing defenders in the league and he's "generational".

Knicks are finally doing things right and casuals are lambasting them for it.

I'm really high on their young players, especially Robinson, but they didn't come into FA with the idea of shelling out 110 million to three flawed power forwards.


Exactly. I love Randle and I wish we had him. But they had much bigger dreams...no way they would escape being mocked after they were expected to have a Davis, Kyrie and Durant big 3.

In the long run I'm still expecting their situation to work out better than Brooklyn's. They will get top 5 picks the next two years and will have a lot of solid assets on the team.
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Re: The Knicks Scenario 

Post#640 » by Bleeding Green » Mon Jul 1, 2019 5:45 pm

BRUNiNHO91 wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:
awful take. They already had young developing players at 4 out of 5 positions:

PG: DSJ, Ntilikina
SG: Barrett
SF: Knox
C: Mitchell Robinson

they just added 24 y/o PF/C Randle: 21-8-3 34% from three and 23 y/o PF Portis 14-9 39% from three. And they did it by signing them to responsible contracts.

Do people not realize young players take time to develop and gel? No, they don't. Because these geniuses are laughably writing off 19 y/o Knox as we speak. You know, the guy who shot 34% from three and is met with scorn? Meanwhile wOndErBoy Doncic shot 32% from three, was top 10 in turnovers and easily one of the worst wing defenders in the league and he's "generational".

Knicks are finally doing things right and casuals are lambasting them for it.

I'm really high on their young players, especially Robinson, but they didn't come into FA with the idea of shelling out 110 million to three flawed power forwards.


Exactly. I love Randle and I wish we had him. But they had much bigger dreams...no way they would escape being mocked after they were expected to have a Davis, Kyrie and Durant big 3.

In the long run I'm still expecting their situation to work out better than Brooklyn's. They will get top 5 picks the next two years and will have a lot of solid assets on the team.

It's being reported now that all of the NYK deals include team options after the first year, so I rescind any negative comments about the Knicks. They missed on KD and Kyrie, now they loaded up on flawed players with reasonable upside and didn't ruin their future capspace like the previous front office did with THJ and Noah. Knicks are headed in the right direction, just need to convince NBA stars it's worth having James Dolan as your owner, which is a big ask.

Basically they have Gibson, Ellington and Portis under control for two years, but also as expiring pieces to be traded near the trade deadline to competing teams. Eliington and Gibson are prime candidates to be highly sought-after players come the trade deadline. Really good stuff from the Knicks, they could easily get a couple extra first round picks out if these guys, and if the Knicks do one thing well it's draft well, especially outside the lottery.
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