Celtics with vs. without Kyrie from Sean Grande

[OldCeltics]

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With Kyrie:
67/103 = 65% of games won

Without Kyrie:
31/49 = 63.2% of games won

Kyrie is obviously a super star. But before calling out the team, perhaps Kyrie can work on becoming a better leader, better defender, and handle the ball less, so players don't ball watch.

[K For Three]

Yeah okay these Kyrie hating analysis threads and posts are getting ridiculous. I am taking a break from the board. Good timing too since I got company for a few days.

He might be leaving at the end of the year anyway, so don't even sweat it.

[Jaqua92]

Read on Twitter

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With Kyrie:
67/103 = 65% of games won

Without Kyrie:
31/49 = 63.2% of games won

Before calling out the team, perhaps Kyrie can work on becoming a better leader, better defender, and handle the ball less, so players don't ball watch.

Unfortunately.. some of these guys think they are stars. They don't fit with him and they don't fit with Hayward.

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[Jaqua92]

Yeah okay these Kyrie hating analysis threads and posts are getting ridiculous. I am taking a break from the board. Good timing too since I got company for a few days.

He might be leaving at the end of the year anyway, so don't even sweat it.

Don't worry. He won't.

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[3D Chess]

Kyrie sits against the bum teams of the league.

[31to6]

To me this says that Kyrie helps us win on the road.

Which makes a ton of sense because the young guns aren't quite ready for that yet (this includes last year's playoffs, I presume?).

[OldCeltics]

Yeah okay these Kyrie hating analysis threads and posts are getting ridiculous. I am taking a break from the board. Good timing too since I got company for a few days.

He might be leaving at the end of the year anyway, so don't even sweat it.

I hope he doesn't leave, so you don't have to change your name.

I'm trying to look at Kyrie objectively. Does he make this team better. The answer is not really, because of his poor leadership style, poor defense, and ball dominance. He can be so much better and hopefully Brad helps him.

[Valid]

Yeah okay these Kyrie hating analysis threads and posts are getting ridiculous. I am taking a break from the board. Good timing too since I got company for a few days.

He might be leaving at the end of the year anyway, so don't even sweat it.

I hope he doesn't leave, so you don't have to change your name.

I'm trying to look at Kyrie objectively. Does he make this team better. The answer is not really, because of his poor leadership style, poor defense, and ball dominance. He can be so much better and hopefully Brad helps him.

Horrible takes like this should get you banned from the board.

This reminds me of the 2013 season when some here SWORE we were better without Rondo, and then the playoffs came around and we didn't even have anyone who could throw a simple entry pass.

I guess some of you are forgetting that we were 10-1 over an 11-game stretch before the LA disasters, the second of which wouldn't have even happened if Kyrie didn't get hurt.

Half of this forum is just toxic.

Don’t attack other posters.-Froob

[Scarletfire81]

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With Kyrie:
67/103 = 65% of games won

Without Kyrie:
31/49 = 63.2% of games won

Before calling out the team, perhaps Kyrie can work on becoming a better leader, better defender, and handle the ball less, so players don't ball watch.

Unfortunately.. some of these guys think they are stars. They don't fit with him and they don't fit with Hayward.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

That's actually a great point.

[OldCeltics]

Yeah okay these Kyrie hating analysis threads and posts are getting ridiculous. I am taking a break from the board. Good timing too since I got company for a few days.

He might be leaving at the end of the year anyway, so don't even sweat it.

I hope he doesn't leave, so you don't have to change your name.

I'm trying to look at Kyrie objectively. Does he make this team better. The answer is not really, because of his poor leadership style, poor defense, and ball dominance. He can be so much better and hopefully Brad helps him.

Horrible takes like this should get you banned from the board.

This reminds me of the 2013 season when some here SWORE we were better without Rondo, and then the playoffs came around and we didn't even have anyone who could throw a simple entry pass.

Our defense is not as good when Irving plays, that is fact.

Even Jaylen Brown called Irving out, and said 'we did fine without you last year'. You gonna ban Brown from Celtics also? Heck i could give you 5 other links, where people questioning if Irving really makes this team better.

Learn to respect other people's opinions even if disagree.

[SuperDeluxe]

I hope he doesn't leave, so you don't have to change your name.

I'm trying to look at Kyrie objectively. Does he make this team better. The answer is not really, because of his poor leadership style, poor defense, and ball dominance. He can be so much better and hopefully Brad helps him.

Horrible takes like this should get you banned from the board.

This reminds me of the 2013 season when some here SWORE we were better without Rondo, and then the playoffs came around and we didn't even have anyone who could throw a simple entry pass.

Our defense is not as good when Irving plays, that is fact.

Even Jaylen Brown called Irving out, and said 'we did fine without you last year'. You gonna ban Brown from Celtics also? Heck i could give you 5 other links, where people questioning if Irving really makes this team better.

Learn to respect other people's opinions.

We'll do fine without Jaylen Brown next year. I hope he likes New Orleans.

[Froob]

Yeah okay these Kyrie hating analysis threads and posts are getting ridiculous. I am taking a break from the board. Good timing too since I got company for a few days.

He might be leaving at the end of the year anyway, so don't even sweat it.

I hope he doesn't leave, so you don't have to change your name.

I'm trying to look at Kyrie objectively. Does he make this team better. The answer is not really, because of his poor leadership style, poor defense, and ball dominance. He can be so much better and hopefully Brad helps him.

Horrible takes like this should get you banned from the board.

This reminds me of the 2013 season when some here SWORE we were better without Rondo, and then the playoffs came around and we didn't even have anyone who could throw a simple entry pass.

I guess some of you are forgetting that we were 10-1 over an 11-game stretch before the LA disasters, the second of which wouldn't have even happened if Kyrie didn't get hurt.

Half of this forum is just toxic.

There’s been a lot of discussion here lately about posters attacker’s others, let’s cool it on the personal shots and just stick to discussing basketball. Disagreements are fine, but we don’t want to discourage people from sharing opinions.

[BRUNiNHO91]

Shouldn't we be asking why Hayward can't make 6 3's when Kyrie spoon feeds him wide open shots?

I mean..stop looking at Kyrie. This is NBA basketball players playing the right way. Guys flat out balled tonight and played hard. Kyrie wasn't there in the 2nd half against the Clippers and they were trash. Why? Because they lack effort and don't play the right way.

It's not like we didn't beat Philly twice already with him..one blow out and one game where he had to put a Superman cape on and dominate because everybody else sucked. That was a great Xmas gift.

The one thing I do think happens is this team plays shy and frozen when Kyrie is out there. Like they are intimidated by his presence. But that's not his fault really. Guys just need to man up. Hayward specially..dude needs to realize he is a star also and set himself ahead of most on the pecking order instead of just trying to fall in line on the Kyrie show.

[BeenBeanGreen]

If kyrie played tonight, who would he guard against Sixers starting 5?

[Bleeding Green]

I hope he doesn't leave, so you don't have to change your name.

I'm trying to look at Kyrie objectively. Does he make this team better. The answer is not really, because of his poor leadership style, poor defense, and ball dominance. He can be so much better and hopefully Brad helps him.

Horrible takes like this should get you banned from the board.

This reminds me of the 2013 season when some here SWORE we were better without Rondo, and then the playoffs came around and we didn't even have anyone who could throw a simple entry pass.

Our defense is not as good when Irving plays, that is fact.

Even Jaylen Brown called Irving out, and said 'we did fine without you last year'. You gonna ban Brown from Celtics also? Heck i could give you 5 other links, where people questioning if Irving really makes this team better.

Learn to respect other people's opinions even if disagree.

Can anyone fact check this? Celtics have a 106.3 over defensive rating (points allowed per 100 possessions) and Kyrie has a personal 106. Lower is better on this one.

I don't know of any good way to sort out all the non-Kyrie games easily to compare their defense when he plays v. when he doesn't but I think subjectively your take is probably wrong.

[Ben-N1ce]

Remember when Jaylen Brown and Rozier shot 7/32 and 3/22 from three in game 7 of the ECF and they scored a whole 79 points. I do. Those types of games are why you need a Kyrie Irving.

Compare him to the rest of the roster with an metrics you like...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2019.html

[thelarrybirdx]

Just watching the team without Kyrie, it seems like there's so much more passion and togetherness. Maybe they all feel like they're important, instead of just a sidekick to Kyrie. Kyrie is undoubtedly a top-10 player in the NBA, don't get me wrong, but this team has so much heart and grit when he's not playing.

[Taget]

Read on Twitter

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyNgmm8X0AAIImp.jpg

With Kyrie:
67/103 = 65% of games won

Without Kyrie:
31/49 = 63.2% of games won

Kyrie is obviously a super star. But before calling out the team, perhaps Kyrie can work on becoming a better leader, better defender, and handle the ball less, so players don't ball watch.

Out of curiosity are those just regular season games or include playoff games since that would obviously skew those stats.

[grindtime22]

Horrible takes like this should get you banned from the board.

This reminds me of the 2013 season when some here SWORE we were better without Rondo, and then the playoffs came around and we didn't even have anyone who could throw a simple entry pass.

Our defense is not as good when Irving plays, that is fact.

Even Jaylen Brown called Irving out, and said 'we did fine without you last year'. You gonna ban Brown from Celtics also? Heck i could give you 5 other links, where people questioning if Irving really makes this team better.

Learn to respect other people's opinions even if disagree.

Can anyone fact check this? Celtics have a 106.3 over defensive rating (points allowed per 100 possessions) and Kyrie has a personal 106. Lower is better on this one.

I don't know of any good way to sort out all the non-Kyrie games easily to compare their defense when he plays v. when he doesn't but I think subjectively your take is probably wrong.

This year.... I see Kyrie at 104.9 and the team at 103.3 overall. So it has been better with him not on the floor, of course he also matches up with starters the majority of the time so it isn't a big difference. ESPN RPM has Kyrie with a 0.79 defensive RPM which is 9th among point guards (marcus smart is #1 at 2.14)

I actually think Kyrie has done alright defensively this year. He is never going to be that lockdown type guy. However, he has been active (usually anyway), trying to get his hands on balls and create turnovers.

On the offensive end, it hasn't even been close. We are elite with Kyrie on the floor and average with him off it.

[Jaqua92]

I hope he doesn't leave, so you don't have to change your name.

I'm trying to look at Kyrie objectively. Does he make this team better. The answer is not really, because of his poor leadership style, poor defense, and ball dominance. He can be so much better and hopefully Brad helps him.

Horrible takes like this should get you banned from the board.

This reminds me of the 2013 season when some here SWORE we were better without Rondo, and then the playoffs came around and we didn't even have anyone who could throw a simple entry pass.

Our defense is not as good when Irving plays, that is fact.

Even Jaylen Brown called Irving out, and said 'we did fine without you last year'. You gonna ban Brown from Celtics also? Heck i could give you 5 other links, where people questioning if Irving really makes this team better.

Learn to respect other people's opinions even if disagree.

And that's why Jaylen needs to go. It shows the root of the problem. These guys have egos that were validated by their homecourt advantage playoff run in a week conference. And they are young, and lack experience.

Now, they don't need Kyrie, they were fine without him. They don't need his leadership, or skill, cause they were fine without him. They can be the stars, and are jealous...cause they were fine without him, and don't want to play with him. Cause they don't need him to...lose in the ECF...as a result, Kyrie is fustrated, takes it personal, and the young guys don't care, cause they were fine without him. And Kyrie gets more fustrated and vents to the media.


So...Kyrie is the problem because he has a hard time dealing with the ignorant self proclaimed stars that are his teammates? Yes, Kyrie's poor leadership is that he can't get the team to rally around him...but he also can't get them to rally around him because he is stealing their deserving thunder..cause they were fine without him..and he's hurting their stats, and their pay check. These young players with this mindset, probably Terry and Jaylen, are Inherently the problem here. Kyrie is just making the divide worse, but the "stars" of last year's playoff run are the problem.

It baffles me how people can't understand this. Kyrie is scapegoated by fans here. Brown and Rozier are the main problems. Followed by the selfish play of Tatum. Danny would get rid of him if he was the problem.

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