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Tatum and Brown

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#181 » by Celts17Pride » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:40 pm

reload141 wrote:Is it safe to return here yet?

It’s not safe to return anywhere in Celtics RealGM forum
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#182 » by cloverleaf » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:41 pm

GrandTheftRondo wrote:They just aren’t likely to be good enough to make a title contender.

I was pretty high on Brown up until last season. Athletic, could shoot, defend and still young. But he came back the exact same player showing the same glaring flaws. He can’t handle the ball all that well and he isn’t a playmaker by any stretch of the imagination. That’s not to say he can’t be a good player, it just says he’s probably not going to be a lead guy.

Unfortunately I think the same can now be said about Tatum but he is a bit younger so perhaps a bit more time needs to be afforded. But like Brown his playmaking ability leaves a lot to be desired. Unlike Brown he isn’t as athletic and I saw throughout last season clear evidence that his lesser athleticism is an issue. He has trouble blowing by defenders unless he has a clear mismatch. This doesn’t bode well at all if you want this guy to be a lead scorer.

Both will be in the league for a while but I have a hard time believing they’ll ever win anything without a genuine top 5 player joining the team. Very unlikely either of them even become top 10 players.


That is why I think those two really need Hayward in there in Horford's place as a 2nd ballhandler.

Yet the way the C's seem to have only steered their media to the youth movement of the J's leads me to think Hayward has found the Stevens and teammates situation here to be untenable--and that he may have quietly asked for a trade.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#183 » by R9ndo » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:43 pm

I’m all in building around these 2 I just need another Young Big or PG to go with them.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#184 » by soxfan2003 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:54 pm

Green89 wrote:No idea how this will affect Brown. He knows it was Tatum that held up the deal and Danny was more than willing to ship him to NO. Could be some bitterness.


Brown is a smart guy. He would have to have to be a world class idiot/egomaniac to not realize if the Celtics could trade him and not that much else for even a rental of AD, it made sense.

Now if I was him I would be very insulted if Ainge offered up Brown, Smart, Memphis pick and same future picks the Lakers were offering up for even 2 years of AD.

That would be treating Brown and Smart as scrubs given the Celtics don't have someone like Lebron with the clock ticking because he is old in nba terms. At least LA is supposedly getting AD long term.

In truth, I think the thing that could negatively impact Brown and perhaps Tatum is the Celtics willingness to give Kyrie Irving a 5 year max deal after that Milwaukee series. What signal does that send about importance of team ball and playing defense to the best of your ability? In 2008, Celtics new that Eddie House couldn't defend well but the guy played defense to the best of his ability. In Jaylen Brown's shoes, I would look at Danny like he is an idiot or someone only interested in selling season tickets and I wouldn't appreciate at all that Ainge was kind of choosing Kyrie Irving over me. Brown has to assume Tatum is a max guy and so if Kyrie gets huge deal, sooner or later Brown a goner.

When you take contracts/age/health into consideration Jaylen Brown for all of his warts > Kyrie Irving. Most NBA clubs right now choose Brown over Irving even though Brown may never be anything beyond an elite role player.

Brown could say to Ainge in a respectful manner didn't you see Kyrie not giving a rat's **** about defense in the playoffs after the midway point of the Milwaukee series? You wanted to reward that *****, with a 5 year max when the guy didn't do much with Cavs before Lebron came on board.

I would say it in a nice way but I would be very skeptical of Danny Ainge if I was Jaylen Brown or any other Celtics veteran to be quite honest.

One thing to think a trade for AD/KD would get Kyrie to play well -- that is arguably worth a try -- but another to offer up a huge deal that other teams don't even think is warranted under normal circumstances without AD/KD.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#185 » by darylbe » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:16 pm

Curious-- prospect/pick wise, what would you need to trade jaylen brown?

Side note. I want him to play here. I'm all aboard the kidz playing and get assets.

He's fast, strong, pretty good defense, good slasher, OK 3s, a good leader, has played well in post season... But I think there are plenty of players like that (minus post season) , or thay can develop into him, fairly easily.

2 1st rounders. If I was confident I could get a quality pg passer with good defense, then another future first rounder, I'd jump on it. Is court vision and passing something thay can be learned? I don't think so.



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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#186 » by bucknersrevenge » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:22 pm

darylbe wrote:Curious-- prospect/pick wise, what would you need to trade jaylen brown?

Side note. I want him to play here. I'm all aboard the kidz playing and get assets.

He's fast, strong, pretty good defense, good slasher, OK 3s, a good leader, has played well in post season... But I think there are plenty of players like that (minus post season) , or thay can develop into him, fairly easily.

2 1st rounders. If I was confident I could get a quality pg passer with good defense, then another future first rounder, I'd jump on it. Is court vision and passing something thay can be learned? I don't think so.



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I think it depends on the expectation of the role. Klay didn't come into the league known to be a great passer and he's not. But his role doesn't require him to be one. However, he's been playing in his current offense so long his awareness within his system of where he needs to be and where his teammates are going to be have improved. Add that to his overall maturity as a player in his prime. He doesn't make great passes but he does make the right ones.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#187 » by GregB » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:03 am

reload141 wrote:Is it safe to return here yet?


Not sure what step of grief this board is right now. Post at your own risk lol.

Personally, This draft seems way more exciting to me now. Interested to see what we do. We got holes at every position but the 2/3
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#188 » by BostonCouchGM » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:14 am

darylbe wrote:Curious-- prospect/pick wise, what would you need to trade jaylen brown?

Side note. I want him to play here. I'm all aboard the kidz playing and get assets.

He's fast, strong, pretty good defense, good slasher, OK 3s, a good leader, has played well in post season... But I think there are plenty of players like that (minus post season) , or thay can develop into him, fairly easily.

2 1st rounders. If I was confident I could get a quality pg passer with good defense, then another future first rounder, I'd jump on it. Is court vision and passing something thay can be learned? I don't think so.



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depending on who is still on the board, I'd likely take as low as a late lottery pick in this weaker draft for him. I see nothing to like when watching him. He is at best a 3 and D player and those are dime a dozen. He's not a good defender. He will never be a playmaker. He has tunnel vision with the ball and that's when he's not struggling to dribble it or fumbling it away. He's a streaky inconstant shooter. I really don't understand the appeal. He's about to get paid by someone who has an awful scout that talked him into it and it would set us back half a decade should Danny match it. You can't pay your 5th or 6th best player top 2 or 3 money. You just can't.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#189 » by big-shot-ROB » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:00 am



LEEEEEEEET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BOSTON!!

:rockon:
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#190 » by darylbe » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:57 pm

Between last post season and this post season, he averaged 18 points per 36min, about 5.8 rebounds, a steal. Last year, shot 40% from 3. So he stepped it up to pretty much klay Thompson level. That's over 2 post seasons, so it's not a one time thing.

And that's pretty much my bag of tricks for nba stats lol.

I certainly don't think he's a max contract player. He was a higher pick than smart, and smart sucked (s) shooting, but is fantastic defensively. So if brown would sign for a smart type deal (smart was 13 a year? 4 yr), then I think that's good. I don't think he's a 20m/ yr yet.

But I think you're underselling him and trying to give him away for the sake of giving him away, whereas if you are trading him, you want to get something of value for him. We don't NEED to trade him, many teams would love to have him.

I would just need a very skilled kid that is Gunna be the pg for a decade. Everything else I can figure out.
BostonCouchGM wrote:
darylbe wrote:Curious-- prospect/pick wise, what would you need to trade jaylen brown?

Side note. I want him to play here. I'm all aboard the kidz playing and get assets.

He's fast, strong, pretty good defense, good slasher, OK 3s, a good leader, has played well in post season... But I think there are plenty of players like that (minus post season) , or thay can develop into him, fairly easily.

2 1st rounders. If I was confident I could get a quality pg passer with good defense, then another future first rounder, I'd jump on it. Is court vision and passing something thay can be learned? I don't think so.



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depending on who is still on the board, I'd likely take as low as a late lottery pick in this weaker draft for him. I see nothing to like when watching him. He is at best a 3 and D player and those are dime a dozen. He's not a good defender. He will never be a playmaker. He has tunnel vision with the ball and that's when he's not struggling to dribble it or fumbling it away. He's a streaky inconstant shooter. I really don't understand the appeal. He's about to get paid by someone who has an awful scout that talked him into it and it would set us back half a decade should Danny match it. You can't pay your 5th or 6th best player top 2 or 3 money. You just can't.


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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#191 » by OBisHalJordan » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:07 pm

I think the Brown is going to better than Tatum. He seems to have the intelligence and drive. He also seems to have something of the attitude of the 2008-2014 teams. As far as I am concerned, Smart and and Brown are the most important for building the type of culture necessary to have a home grown champion
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#192 » by Red2 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:34 pm

there's too much smoke around the C's for there not to be a fire. i really feel like danny is going to trade brown today to move up to the 4 pick where he'll pick garland. either than or he will try to trade brown and picks to the wizards for beal. As much as I think we should build around the young guys and the draft, danny isn't that patient and his history suggests he's going to make a big move. trading brown also increases the chances of getting kyrie back. Kyrie and beal would be a hell of a back court and who knows maybe horford changes his mind then. If reports are true and brown and kyrie clashed then removing brown may help retain kyrie. don't get me wrong- I don't necessarily want Kyrie back but he's the best asset we have. it also makes sense financially I think but I' m no cap expert so will leave it to others. if we trade brown to move up and take garland then maybe we flip that pick to houston for capela. maybe that's the plan as well. either way I feel there's a good chance brown gets moved today
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#193 » by leper-con » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:37 pm

OBisHalJordan wrote:I think the Brown is going to better than Tatum. He seems to have the intelligence and drive. He also seems to have something of the attitude of the 2008-2014 teams. As far as I am concerned, Smart and and Brown are the most important for building the type of culture necessary to have a home grown champion



Brown has also risen to the occasion during the playoffs
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#194 » by DaTruth34 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:38 pm

Red2 wrote:there's too much smoke around the C's for there not to be a fire. i really feel like danny is going to trade brown today to move up to the 4 pick where he'll pick garland. either than or he will try to trade brown and picks to the wizards for beal. As much as I think we should build around the young guys and the draft, danny isn't that patient and his history suggests he's going to make a big move. trading brown also increases the chances of getting kyrie back. Kyrie and beal would be a hell of a back court and who knows maybe horford changes his mind then. If reports are true and brown and kyrie clashed then removing brown may help retain kyrie. don't get me wrong- I don't necessarily want Kyrie back but he's the best asset we have. it also makes sense financially I think but I' m no cap expert so will leave it to others. if we trade brown to move up and take garland then maybe we flip that pick to houston for capela. maybe that's the plan as well. either way I feel there's a good chance brown gets moved today
You would like. Thats it

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#195 » by darylbe » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:19 am

..



Tiny ball wrote:He should be recovered by start of season.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#196 » by darylbe » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:19 am

In hindsight, 2016 was such a **** draft.


Tiny ball wrote:He should be recovered by start of season.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#197 » by zoyathedestroya » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:32 am

Jayson Tatum is the newest member of the Jordan Brand. He is now the next Michael Jordan.

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#198 » by FlatearthZorro » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:06 pm

I really wanted us to hire the Captain as an assistant coach. Him working with Brown and Tatum would've been glorious. He could teach em so much, hesitation moves, passing, step backs... I really wish both of them wold work out with Pierce.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#199 » by sam_I_am » Wed Jul 3, 2019 3:28 pm

I have been hearing a lot of people talking about how we should trade Brown before we have to pay him and this makes no sense. If you google Top NBA SFs you’ll see a varied bunch of lists but in general it goes something like this:

1. Durant (injured)
2. Kawhi
3. George
4. Lebron
5. Butler
6. Middleton

A healthy pre-injury Hayward probably gets you to 5-7 range.

Then you get Bogdanovich, Aaron Gordon, Wiggins, Ingram, Otto Porter etc.

If you include bigger SGs you get DeRozan, Klay, Beal, Harden, Doncic etc.

Anyway, my point is that both Tatum and Brown are on a trajectory to be a top 10 wings especially when you consider that in the last 3 drafts only RJ Barrett, Doncic and maybe Michael Porter are in their class. It’s silly to even consider trading Brown unless you are getting an absolute stud big man in return. I think that is true even if Brown never gets any better which is highly unlikely. When Brown is 27 it will be 2023. How many guys out of top 7-8 will still be all stars? Kawhi @ 32 is probably the only one assuming he remains healthy.

There are not a lot of great young wings right now and we actually have 3 of them if Hayward bounces back like we expect. Hayward probably opts out this year for that very reason unless he sucks this year - so if I had to trade one it would be him.
sam_I_am »2017:Kyrie isn't much of an upgrade over IT and he is **** crazy. Demands to be traded after 3 finals passing on supermax to go to Knicks. More talent around than IT did 2 yrs ago, no playoffs until Lebron came.Kyrie cant hold leads w/o Lebron.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#200 » by mdemers938 » Wed Jul 3, 2019 3:43 pm

I don't understand the board's general desire to trade Brown...

He's been better than Tatum in the playoffs both years - and he's been asked to do more in both of those playoffs as well defensively.

I love them both, but I agree with the poster above that Brown is the better prospect. Looking at PPG is a vacuum assessment when you realize Brown also has to guard their best player on the other end/expend twice the energy. Really excited for him this year.

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