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Tatum and Brown

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#201 » by bfchs123 » Wed Jul 3, 2019 4:05 pm

sam_I_am wrote:I have been hearing a lot of people talking about how we should trade Brown before we have to pay him and this makes no sense. If you google Top NBA SFs you’ll see a varied bunch of lists but in general it goes something like this:

1. Durant (injured)
2. Kawhi
3. George
4. Lebron
5. Butler
6. Middleton

A healthy pre-injury Hayward probably gets you to 5-7 range.

Then you get Bogdanovich, Aaron Gordon, Wiggins, Ingram, Otto Porter etc.

If you include bigger SGs you get DeRozan, Klay, Beal, Harden, Doncic etc.

Anyway, my point is that both Tatum and Brown are on a trajectory to be a top 10 wings especially when you consider that in the last 3 drafts only RJ Barrett, Doncic and maybe Michael Porter are in their class. It’s silly to even consider trading Brown unless you are getting an absolute stud big man in return. I think that is true even if Brown never gets any better which is highly unlikely. When Brown is 27 it will be 2023. How many guys out of top 7-8 will still be all stars? Kawhi @ 32 is probably the only one assuming he remains healthy.

There are not a lot of great young wings right now and we actually have 3 of them if Hayward bounces back like we expect. Hayward probably opts out this year for that very reason unless he sucks this year - so if I had to trade one it would be him.


Agreed completely. Wing is the most valuable position in the NBA. Both Tatum and Brown are two-way players with length, who can shoot the 3, and have shown strong potential getting to the rim. No way I'm trading either of those for a big like Capela or Sabonis. If KAT becomes available, ok I'll trade Brown (and a hoard of other assets) but otherwise I'm letting these guys develop.

Same with Hayward for that matter - not trading a potential all-star wing for a guy like Steven Adams...
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#202 » by sam_I_am » Wed Jul 3, 2019 4:10 pm

bfchs123 wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:I have been hearing a lot of people talking about how we should trade Brown before we have to pay him and this makes no sense. If you google Top NBA SFs you’ll see a varied bunch of lists but in general it goes something like this:

1. Durant (injured)
2. Kawhi
3. George
4. Lebron
5. Butler
6. Middleton

A healthy pre-injury Hayward probably gets you to 5-7 range.

Then you get Bogdanovich, Aaron Gordon, Wiggins, Ingram, Otto Porter etc.

If you include bigger SGs you get DeRozan, Klay, Beal, Harden, Doncic etc.

Anyway, my point is that both Tatum and Brown are on a trajectory to be a top 10 wings especially when you consider that in the last 3 drafts only RJ Barrett, Doncic and maybe Michael Porter are in their class. It’s silly to even consider trading Brown unless you are getting an absolute stud big man in return. I think that is true even if Brown never gets any better which is highly unlikely. When Brown is 27 it will be 2023. How many guys out of top 7-8 will still be all stars? Kawhi @ 32 is probably the only one assuming he remains healthy.

There are not a lot of great young wings right now and we actually have 3 of them if Hayward bounces back like we expect. Hayward probably opts out this year for that very reason unless he sucks this year - so if I had to trade one it would be him.


Agreed completely. Wing is the most valuable position in the NBA. Both Tatum and Brown are two-way players with length, who can shoot the 3, and have shown strong potential getting to the rim. No way I'm trading either of those for a big like Capela or Sabonis. If KAT becomes available, ok I'll trade Brown (and a hoard of other assets) but otherwise I'm letting these guys develop.

Same with Hayward for that matter - not trading a potential all-star wing for a guy like Steven Adams...


I pretty much try trade Hayward unless I get commitment to opt in or resign.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#203 » by Steal by Bird » Wed Jul 3, 2019 5:21 pm

Tatum, Brown, and Hayward could be fine together on the floor with a legitimate defender/rebounding center. Without that it forces one of them into a an actual PF role. Without a center, I don’t think it works.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#204 » by Disinformation » Wed Jul 3, 2019 5:33 pm

Steal by Bird wrote:Tatum, Brown, and Hayward could be fine together on the floor with a legitimate defender/rebounding center. Without that it forces one of them into a an actual PF role. Without a center, I don’t think it works.


Cool...all we need to do is put Kenter and Timelord into that teleport machine from the Fly and we're all set. :lol:
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1) **** Kyrie Irving.
2) We missed our window to true contention and it's time to take a step back, get assets, and set up for the next run.

Kemba Walker - Nikola Vucevic - D'angelo Russell
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#205 » by GuyClinch » Thu Jul 4, 2019 8:30 am

Brown is so much quicker at loose balls and hustle plays then Tatum. He also is prototypical 2 guard size - and he can cover any 2 decently well. Downside for Brown is likely guy to go all Colin Kaepernick on us. He could discover MA had some slaves before the revolution..and whamo. Kaerpernick wasn't really that good as QB - but he threw away most of his career because politics consumed him. Going to a **** basketball school is sign of Brown's priorities - and not a good one.

Gripe with Tatum is that he is a ISO guy who isn't particularly good at it. Sure showy - but not that effective and he is not that quick laterally - he can get going up and down and throw down some dunks. But takes him a bit to get going. This makes him meh on defense - though that long build does come in handy sometimes. Nice stroke from the outside though - upside is a like a Reggie Miller type. Reggie didn't bother that much with ISO. Scrawny and more quick then fast - still scored alot.

Will be fun to see how they develop this year. Who will make the all-star game? How many times? Never? Will TRozier make an all-star game before them? So many questions.. I think for both of them though - its now or never..
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#206 » by Floody100 » Thu Jul 4, 2019 9:47 am

Being honest, it would nice to see the title of this thread changed to ‘Tatum and Beal’.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#207 » by Cyclical » Thu Jul 4, 2019 1:04 pm

I know it's just practice, but damn Jaylen....

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#208 » by cloverleaf » Thu Jul 4, 2019 1:10 pm

GuyClinch wrote:Brown is so much quicker at loose balls and hustle plays then Tatum. He also is prototypical 2 guard size - and he can cover any 2 decently well. Downside for Brown is likely guy to go all Colin Kaepernick on us. He could discover MA had some slaves before the revolution..and whamo. Kaerpernick wasn't really that good as QB - but he threw away most of his career because politics consumed him. Going to a **** basketball school is sign of Brown's priorities - and not a good one.

Gripe with Tatum is that he is a ISO guy who isn't particularly good at it. Sure showy - but not that effective and he is not that quick laterally - he can get going up and down and throw down some dunks. But takes him a bit to get going. This makes him meh on defense - though that long build does come in handy sometimes. Nice stroke from the outside though - upside is a like a Reggie Miller type. Reggie didn't bother that much with ISO. Scrawny and more quick then fast - still scored alot.

Will be fun to see how they develop this year. Who will make the all-star game? How many times? Never? Will TRozier make an all-star game before them? So many questions.. I think for both of them though - its now or never..


The results on D when Tatum's in the lineup have always been good. Mostly in the right position with good length. And I don't think he's slower on O than Pierce was--which is why he should be out training with Pierce instead of Kobe when he gets to LA this summer. Yes, stubborn too. Needs to work harder to give what his coaches are looking for this year for the team, not for the development of his career.

And Brown really needs to refine so much still. Used properly he can be a great weapon on O as it is, if he'll just stop rushing into crowds and develop a little passing awareness in such situations. And he's gotta be far more consistently aware on D. If not, he deserves to come off the bench behind Smart, who is a more natural fit with Kemba in the backcourt.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#209 » by KIRAG » Thu Jul 4, 2019 4:33 pm

The yin and yang of the Cs. I think their strengths and weaknesses complement each other.

Jaylen = Explosive Fire
Jayson = Cool and smooth as ice

Now the key here is how the chemistry would work with the other pieces Hayward, Kemba and Kanter.

I am optimistic though because those 3 are high character coachable team first guys.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#210 » by sam_I_am » Sun Jul 7, 2019 12:23 pm

Jayson Tatum (age 20) career playoff stats: 6-13, 46%, 17 ppg, 5 rpg, 2.5 apg
Kawhi Leonard (age 28) : 7-13, 50%, 19 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 2.4 apg
Paul George (age 29): 6-15, 42%, 20 ppg, 7 rpg, 4 apg

So how good were Kawhi and PG in playoffs at age 20? They weren’t in them..... How about at age 21?
Kawhi: 8.6 ppg, 50%, 6 rpg, 0.6 apg
PG: 6ppg, 30%, 5 rpg, 1 apg

We have a superstar in the making here. To hear the naysayers say otherwise is ludicrous. And Tatum is already a much much better pure shooter than PG or Kawhi even though his overall game lags behind. The sky is still the limit for this kid.

And just for kicks...what was Browns playoff numbers at age 21?

Brown: 7-15, 47%, 18 ppg, 5 rpg, 1.4 apg. (39% 3 pt%)

Anybody still want to trade him at age 22 for Capella after these comparisons?

After the stink of last season fades away....and you remember what great young talent we are developing.....you just have to believe.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#211 » by Denisaur9 » Mon Jul 8, 2019 1:08 am

Would you guys do a Brown for OG trade with Toronto?

We have a need for SG and OG is a 3/4 that shoots 37% from 3 with lockdown D.

We just signed Stanley Johnson and Rondae Hollis Jefferson who could be our SF.

Walker
Hayward/Smart
Tatum
OG
Later

Lowry
Brown
RHJ
Siakim
Gasol

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#212 » by Floody100 » Mon Jul 8, 2019 1:21 am

Denisaur9 wrote:Would you guys do a Brown for OG trade with Toronto?

We have a need for SG and OG is a 3/4 that shoots 37% from 3 with lockdown D.

We just signed Stanley Johnson and Rondae Hollis Jefferson who could be our SF.

Walker
Hayward/Smart
Tatum
OG
Later

Lowry
Brown
RHJ
Siakim
Gasol

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using RealGM mobile app


:noway:
While they both average the same FG% & same amount of blocks, Jaylen has a better 3P%, FT% & averages more rebounds, assists, steals & more points per game, no thanks ...
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#213 » by BostonCouchGM » Mon Jul 8, 2019 1:27 am

Cyclical wrote:I know it's just practice, but damn Jaylen....



his fumble at the :27 mark is all you need to see. These workout videos are embarrassing to begin with. Melo has been dazzling us for years with these. But to not even be able to get through 30 seconds without fumbling the ball is cringe. He's entering his 4th seasons. He's an okay 3 and D guy at best. People really need to let it go with all the expectations above that.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#214 » by Parliament10 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:13 am

hondobird wrote:You guys know the Celtics and basketball better than I do so please share with my why people seem to have concluded that Tatum and Brown will never grow into the star/top 25 type player. They are both very talented and very young still.
Would appreciate any feedback on this.

Thanks.

I can see Tatum becoming a Top 25 players. Or at the least, a multiple All-Star.
He did seem to regress last season, though.

Brown I can see getting near there, as well.
His ceiling isn't as high, but he works hard. I'd say a Top 50 player.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#215 » by snowman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:37 am

I think Brown and Tatum are going to step it up a notch this year due to there being less drama everyday around the team with Kyrie gone. At 20 and 21, you definitely don't trade them, unless Danny decides that he can't resign Brown next off season. Having him as a RFA helps a lot. I think this team is going to surprise everyone this season.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#216 » by Saint Lazarus » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:39 am

ermocrate wrote:I like how people jumped at Jayson throat because he is a St.Luois fan (duh)... I think someone has to stop idiotic fans from making more damages than the ones they have already done... No wonder players are not so big on coming here...


I know you posted this a long time ago, but I just want you to acknowledge just how wrong you are.

Horford. Hayward. Kemba.

3 big free agents in 3 offseasons. "players are not so big on coming here"

Not to mention your trash take on Jaylen lol.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#217 » by cloverleaf » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:48 am

snowman wrote:I think Brown and Tatum are going to step it up a notch this year due to there being less drama everyday around the team with Kyrie gone. At 20 and 21, you definitely don't trade them, unless Danny decides that he can't resign Brown next off season. Having him as a RFA helps a lot. I think this team is going to surprise everyone this season.


With these fellas, 20 and 21 have left the barn.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#218 » by Parliament10 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:56 am

I think, that Tatum should take his #11 back.

Remember this?

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#219 » by snowman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:58 am

sorry, 22 and 21. Still wouldn't trade either. I still think they are going to step up this season. If not, then look at trade options.


I agree, Tatum should take back number 11.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#220 » by Green89 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:14 am

sam_I_am wrote:Jayson Tatum (age 20) career playoff stats: 6-13, 46%, 17 ppg, 5 rpg, 2.5 apg
Kawhi Leonard (age 28) : 7-13, 50%, 19 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 2.4 apg
Paul George (age 29): 6-15, 42%, 20 ppg, 7 rpg, 4 apg

So how good were Kawhi and PG in playoffs at age 20? They weren’t in them..... How about at age 21?
Kawhi: 8.6 ppg, 50%, 6 rpg, 0.6 apg
PG: 6ppg, 30%, 5 rpg, 1 apg


We have a superstar in the making here. To hear the naysayers say otherwise is ludicrous. And Tatum is already a much much better pure shooter than PG or Kawhi even though his overall game lags behind. The sky is still the limit for this kid.

And just for kicks...what was Browns playoff numbers at age 21?

Brown: 7-15, 47%, 18 ppg, 5 rpg, 1.4 apg. (39% 3 pt%)

Anybody still want to trade him at age 22 for Capella after these comparisons?

After the stink of last season fades away....and you remember what great young talent we are developing.....you just have to believe.


Oh, c'mon. PG and Kawhi were not the focus of the offense during those playoff runs. They both averaged only 6 FGA per game. Of course Brown and Tatum will have better ppg, as they were taking double the field goals at 13-14 FGA per game.

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