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Tatum and Brown

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#361 » by FlatearthZorro » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:45 pm

Red2 wrote:They both need to work in their handles and also on finishing at the rim . They miss way too many bunnies and close shots


THey've both improved in a great way in that area.

Tbh, Brown's playing at Siakam's level right now and not too many are recognizing it.

He's shooting 53.5% from the field, averaging 25/8/and around 4 assists in the last 5 games, 62TS... That's pretty bizarre. I believe Tatum's FG% will improve.
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#362 » by Ben-N1ce » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:56 pm

Jaylen has definitely been better offensively thus far. His improvements are tangible and show up in production. His better handle has absolutely led to more efficiency. Tatum's more driving hasn't led to more buckets or FT's which was the entire point. He's already the worse at it so it will get better..
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#363 » by zoyathedestroya » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:14 pm

Read on Twitter


Hayward-Tatum was plus-22.3 in 163 minutes before Hayward got injured. Just in case anyone's asking haha.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#364 » by sam_I_am » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:58 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:
Read on Twitter


Hayward-Tatum was plus-22.3 in 163 minutes before Hayward got injured. Just in case anyone's asking haha.


You can’t ask for a better replacement for Hayward than Brown. But the team just isn’t playing at the same level without Hayward. That they are winning at the same level shows this team has the toughness of the 2018 ECF team.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#365 » by The Corey's » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:42 pm

I'm just gonna say that right now brown is proven me wrong.

I didnt think he had this ability in him.

Up to him to continue it.
Ainge gots to **** go yo
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#366 » by azee2890 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:23 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:
Read on Twitter


Hayward-Tatum was plus-22.3 in 163 minutes before Hayward got injured. Just in case anyone's asking haha.



Remember last year when half the board was calling for Brown's head and couldn't wait to deal him and the entire farm away to get a shot at basically what the Nets are right now?

+1 for those that believed in developing chemistry and the existing talent on the roster

-1 for those who believed handing the keys to the team to a volatile star was the answer

Kyrie blitzing the team last year and leaving was a blessing in disguise. The true core and heart of this team is now being given the autonomy to blossom, without that obnoxious ball hog.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#367 » by GoGreen » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:16 pm

Really hoping Brown lights it up tonight. Last couple games hasn't looked great, but when he's on, boy can he cook!
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#368 » by AlCelticFan » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:11 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:
Read on Twitter


Hayward-Tatum was plus-22.3 in 163 minutes before Hayward got injured. Just in case anyone's asking haha.

Hayward is so incredibly underrated (it sounds like listening to some of you). The man had a historically good game. He did something this season that hasn't been done in the NBA since the 60's. I cannot wait to get him back on this squad and look to challenge in the finals this season :pray:
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#369 » by zoyathedestroya » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:36 am

Only 16 games in, small sample...

Here are Tatum's 5 most frequent play types and his percentile ranking in each:
• Pick-and-roll Ballhandler - 41.8 percentile
• Spot-Up - 48.2 percentile
• Transition - 84.3 percentile
• Hand-offs - 35.1 percentile
• Isolation - 27.3 percentile

Here are Brown's:
• Spot-Up - 82.3 percentile
• Transition - 78.9 percentile
• Pick-and-roll Ballhandler - 67.4 percentile
• Isolation - 22.5 percentile
• Off-Screen - 8.8 percentile
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#370 » by Fencer reregistered » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:52 am

At the moment, Brown's the better player than Tatum. It's likely -- and CERTAINLY at least very plausible -- that Tatum will leapfrog him again, but at the moment Brown looks better to the eye, is scoring with more consistent efficiency, is rebounding about as well, is passing almost as well, and is playing at least as good defense.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#371 » by zoyathedestroya » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:13 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:At the moment, Brown's the better player than Tatum. It's likely -- and CERTAINLY at least very plausible -- that Tatum will leapfrog him again, but at the moment Brown looks better to the eye, is scoring with more consistent efficiency, is rebounding about as well, is passing almost as well, and is playing at least as good defense.

I don't think either player has shown YET that they could be effective and efficient as primary playmakers/shot creators for the team. It's part of our offensive struggles since Hayward went down. Tatum reverts to his iso back-to-the-basket Kobe jumpers. Brown is more of a catch-and-go guy. I don't think Stevens is comfortable yet putting the ball in their hands for most of the game. That's why Smart and Wanamaker are tasked to playmake more for the team. So far, the numbers reflect they're doing better as off-ball options. I do wish both learn how to cut to the basket more especially when someone else drives baseline or a guy like Kanter posts up.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#372 » by Fencer reregistered » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:27 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:At the moment, Brown's the better player than Tatum. It's likely -- and CERTAINLY at least very plausible -- that Tatum will leapfrog him again, but at the moment Brown looks better to the eye, is scoring with more consistent efficiency, is rebounding about as well, is passing almost as well, and is playing at least as good defense.

I don't think either player has shown YET that they could be effective and efficient as primary playmakers/shot creators for the team. It's part of our offensive struggles since Hayward went down. Tatum reverts to his iso back-to-the-basket Kobe jumpers. Brown is more of a catch-and-go guy. I don't think Stevens is comfortable yet putting the ball in their hands for most of the game. That's why Smart and Wanamaker are tasked to playmake more for the team. So far, the numbers reflect they're doing better as off-ball options. I do wish both learn how to cut to the basket more especially when someone else drives baseline or a guy like Kanter posts up.


I thought Brown was a better cutter when younger, and then he stopped doing it. Similarly Avery Bradley. Both should have continued.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#373 » by zoyathedestroya » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:34 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:At the moment, Brown's the better player than Tatum. It's likely -- and CERTAINLY at least very plausible -- that Tatum will leapfrog him again, but at the moment Brown looks better to the eye, is scoring with more consistent efficiency, is rebounding about as well, is passing almost as well, and is playing at least as good defense.

I don't think either player has shown YET that they could be effective and efficient as primary playmakers/shot creators for the team. It's part of our offensive struggles since Hayward went down. Tatum reverts to his iso back-to-the-basket Kobe jumpers. Brown is more of a catch-and-go guy. I don't think Stevens is comfortable yet putting the ball in their hands for most of the game. That's why Smart and Wanamaker are tasked to playmake more for the team. So far, the numbers reflect they're doing better as off-ball options. I do wish both learn how to cut to the basket more especially when someone else drives baseline or a guy like Kanter posts up.


I thought Brown was a better cutter when younger, and then he stopped doing it. Similarly Avery Bradley. Both should have continued.

Not putting it all on them. 'Cos I don't really know what the coaches instruct them to do. It just feels like they could find effective ways to score even playing off the ball. It's encouraging that both of them have done well in transition. Tatum especially has learned when to leak out. Brown has improved his handles and decision making on the break.

In the half-court, Brown has made quicker decisions as soon as he catches the ball. Tatum is still a bit indecisive and calculating, making it easier for the defense to set and predict what he would do.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#374 » by ParticleMan » Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:09 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:At the moment, Brown's the better player than Tatum. It's likely -- and CERTAINLY at least very plausible -- that Tatum will leapfrog him again, but at the moment Brown looks better to the eye, is scoring with more consistent efficiency, is rebounding about as well, is passing almost as well, and is playing at least as good defense.

I don't think either player has shown YET that they could be effective and efficient as primary playmakers/shot creators for the team. It's part of our offensive struggles since Hayward went down. Tatum reverts to his iso back-to-the-basket Kobe jumpers. Brown is more of a catch-and-go guy. I don't think Stevens is comfortable yet putting the ball in their hands for most of the game. That's why Smart and Wanamaker are tasked to playmake more for the team. So far, the numbers reflect they're doing better as off-ball options. I do wish both learn how to cut to the basket more especially when someone else drives baseline or a guy like Kanter posts up.


I thought Brown was a better cutter when younger, and then he stopped doing it. Similarly Avery Bradley. Both should have continued.


that's typical tho. backdoor cutting is an easy thing to stop defensively, if teams are aware of it. that's why it's so frustrating for coaches when teams give it up. with AB, at first literally nobody was paying any attention to him on offense, so it was working. similar to brown. then they got good, and teams started keeping track of where they are on the floor.

at this point tatum and brown are about neck and neck. when one gas a good game the other will be more complementary, but they've had about equal turns at being option 1a to kemba. they continue to work well together and play off of each other. it's really nice to see, actually.

my totally radical thinking is that we keep 'em both 8-)
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#375 » by sully00 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:23 pm

ParticleMan wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:I don't think either player has shown YET that they could be effective and efficient as primary playmakers/shot creators for the team. It's part of our offensive struggles since Hayward went down. Tatum reverts to his iso back-to-the-basket Kobe jumpers. Brown is more of a catch-and-go guy. I don't think Stevens is comfortable yet putting the ball in their hands for most of the game. That's why Smart and Wanamaker are tasked to playmake more for the team. So far, the numbers reflect they're doing better as off-ball options. I do wish both learn how to cut to the basket more especially when someone else drives baseline or a guy like Kanter posts up.


I thought Brown was a better cutter when younger, and then he stopped doing it. Similarly Avery Bradley. Both should have continued.


that's typical tho. backdoor cutting is an easy thing to stop defensively, if teams are aware of it. that's why it's so frustrating for coaches when teams give it up. with AB, at first literally nobody was paying any attention to him on offense, so it was working. similar to brown. then they got good, and teams started keeping track of where they are on the floor.

at this point tatum and brown are about neck and neck. when one gas a good game the other will be more complementary, but they've had about equal turns at being option 1a to kemba. they continue to work well together and play off of each other. it's really nice to see, actually.

my totally radical thinking is that we keep 'em both 8-)


As a fan of both players and Tatum takes on a lot more tough possessions than Brown does and he should he is a better ball handler at least relative to his position, often lining up as a PF where Brown is frequently a SG or SF right now. Even with both Kemba and Hayward out the tough shots seem to have fallen more to Smart than Brown who continues to take his shots in the flow of the offense. I think this is a good thing. Guys are going to have their roles on this team when it is full power. I think Brown is going to be a catch and shoot slash to the rim guy off of the action that Hayward and Walker create. I think Tatum will iso in the halfcourt. I think the real benefit of Smart getting this time right now is getting comfortable at running the point and being a primary offensive option which should allow him to help carry a reserve unit at times giving that unit a standout defender.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#376 » by Slartibartfast » Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:51 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:Only 16 games in, small sample...

Here are Tatum's 5 most frequent play types and his percentile ranking in each:
• Pick-and-roll Ballhandler - 41.8 percentile
• Spot-Up - 48.2 percentile
• Transition - 84.3 percentile
• Hand-offs - 35.1 percentile
• Isolation - 27.3 percentile

Here are Brown's:
• Spot-Up - 82.3 percentile
• Transition - 78.9 percentile
• Pick-and-roll Ballhandler - 67.4 percentile
• Isolation - 22.5 percentile
• Off-Screen - 8.8 percentile


This is where Tatum's desire to be a primary option hurts him. PNR should not be his primary play type - it's those down hill gallops that produce a lot of his worst shots. If he had a scoring profile more like Jaylen's, he would be more efficient and the volume wouldn't even be that different.

When Hayward gets back, I'd like to see Tatum get a lot more looks off ball and in the post. Less creating 28 feet away from the hoop.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#377 » by 3D Chess » Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:13 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
This is where Tatum's desire to be a primary option hurts him. PNR should not be his primary play type - it's those down hill gallops that produce a lot of his worst shots. If he had a scoring profile more like Jaylen's, he would be more efficient and the volume wouldn't even be that different.

When Hayward gets back, I'd like to see Tatum get a lot more looks off ball and in the post. Less creating 28 feet away from the hoop.

I think that's going to be the plan. Right before Hayward got hurt, we were absolutely spamming Hayward coming out to collect above the break and running the offense through him.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#378 » by GuyClinch » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:44 pm

Yes if Tatum stuck to more off the ball stuff he would be a terrific scorer. Much better shooter then Jaylen so get him a good look in the open he is money. Problem is with Tatum is that he thinks he is Kobe and tries to hit tough mid range glory moves and makes super hard drives to the hoop like a Kyrie..

Brown sticks to his strengths a bit more. Brown makes some poor players but way less head scratchers.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#379 » by mzepol » Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:18 am

Tatum has improved defensively, but has regressed on offense. He needs to work with Pierce on polishing his offensive game. Forget Kobe. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem interested even if Paul offered to help.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#380 » by 31to6 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:38 pm

mzepol wrote:Tatum has improved defensively, but has regressed on offense. He needs to work with Pierce on polishing his offensive game. Forget Kobe. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem interested even if Paul offered to help.


We may get to the point where Jaylen Brown can offer some help? And Smart and Kemba and Gordon — four guys who’ve improved a lot as perimeter scorers aren’t bad coworkers to have.

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