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Tatum and Brown

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#41 » by OldCeltics » Wed Jun 5, 2019 2:41 pm

if given the opportunity

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#42 » by cloverleaf » Wed Jun 5, 2019 3:59 pm

Half-Full wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:I think both guys each have their own glaring flaw.

Tatum: Shot selection. I truly believe shot selection is the only thing holding him back from being a borderline all star in the East. 40% 3pt shooter, 85% at the line and he finished at a very high rate of 68% at the basket last year. The problem is he is far to willing to just settle for a contested pull up mid range jumper. I think he can be deadly from the mid range, but it should never be his 1st or 2nd option. The mid range shot should be a changeup, not his go to move. He also needs to facilitate.

Brown: His handle is horrible. He is never going to be a consistent scoring threat until he improves his handle. Its way to slow and high. If he could improve his handle, he would be a terror slashing the basket. He is also a bad FT shooter and because of that, Im not sure how consistent he will be over his career from 3.


It's funny that you think Brown has a handle that is way too slow and high. I think Tatum's handle is slow, and definitely too high. While Jaylen is not an excellent FT shooter, he is not a bad one (unless you think 77% is a bad FT percentage).


JB especially seems to have long legs for his height, which makes that a bit more of a challenge for him. JB still with plenty of time for improvement on his FTs, but reaching the .70s in two short postseason series doesn't make up for three seasons in the .60s.
JT, mostly playing under age 21 so far, is more likely to get his shot selection straightened out, however.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#43 » by zoyathedestroya » Wed Jun 5, 2019 4:37 pm

Read on Twitter

Tatum representing the Pelicans... ermm I mean the Celtics for USA Basketball.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#44 » by Wes-J » Wed Jun 5, 2019 8:28 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:
Read on Twitter

Tatum representing the Pelicans... ermm I mean the Celtics for USA Basketball.


Brook Lopez? What's the criteria??
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#45 » by djFan71 » Wed Jun 5, 2019 11:21 pm

Wes-J wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:
Read on Twitter

Tatum representing the Pelicans... ermm I mean the Celtics for USA Basketball.


Brook Lopez? What's the criteria??

Be good at basketball?
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#46 » by mdemers938 » Thu Jun 6, 2019 12:00 am

Love them both. Don’t trade either. Either one could become a super star.

I’m in the minority that thinks Brown is the best prospect on this team.

Higher ceiling, better motor, 2-way game.

Also don’t overlook his VP NBAPA... will quickly become a very respected player in this league on and off court.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#47 » by LuckyLeprechaun » Thu Jun 6, 2019 5:45 am

Parasite wrote:
AlCelticFan wrote:
Parasite wrote:
Fair enough but with Brown’s game, in order for him to be a star he HAS to have good handles. Has to. I’ve been harping on this since his rookie year. They haven’t improved. If his focus was so good why haven’t they? He has to realize that without good handles, his particular strengths are largely nullified. So until I see some improvement there, I don’t think he becomes a star.

I mean, almost no one becomes a star, so it's an easy bet that he doesn't. But he's young and has a chance. That's all we can hope for -- that and trading one for AD :), we can hope for that as well.


He’s a good player, seems like a good kid. But it’s just frustrating that he has a particularly glaring weakness and he hasn’t improved it at all. And with AD, we will see. I keep flopping back and forth if I think it’s worth it to bring him here. If he committed long term it would be but I just think he’s gone to LA no matter what. Idk. It’s rough. But that’s why Ainge gets the big bucks. He really can’t afford to **** this up though.
Disagree that Brown hasn't improved his handle at all. If you really think that you must not remember his rookie year handles that well. He has improved from "absolutely terrible" to "bad".
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#48 » by Wes-J » Thu Jun 6, 2019 6:09 am

LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
Parasite wrote:
AlCelticFan wrote:I mean, almost no one becomes a star, so it's an easy bet that he doesn't. But he's young and has a chance. That's all we can hope for -- that and trading one for AD :), we can hope for that as well.


He’s a good player, seems like a good kid. But it’s just frustrating that he has a particularly glaring weakness and he hasn’t improved it at all. And with AD, we will see. I keep flopping back and forth if I think it’s worth it to bring him here. If he committed long term it would be but I just think he’s gone to LA no matter what. Idk. It’s rough. But that’s why Ainge gets the big bucks. He really can’t afford to **** this up though.
Disagree that Brown hasn't improved his handle at all. If you really think that you must not remember his rookie year handles that well. He has improved from "absolutely terrible" to "bad".


Don't even think he's bad. He's just average. It seems that way because he's under the microscope more than any other player on the team in that regard because of where he started. He's absolutely improved. Tatum needs to improve too.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#49 » by Tiny ball » Thu Jun 6, 2019 11:01 am

Duke4life831 wrote:I think both guys each have their own glaring flaw.

Tatum: Shot selection. I truly believe shot selection is the only thing holding him back from being a borderline all star in the East. 40% 3pt shooter, 85% at the line and he finished at a very high rate of 68% at the basket last year. The problem is he is far to willing to just settle for a contested pull up mid range jumper. I think he can be deadly from the mid range, but it should never be his 1st or 2nd option. The mid range shot should be a changeup, not his go to move. He also needs to facilitate.

Brown: His handle is horrible. He is never going to be a consistent scoring threat until he improves his handle. Its way to slow and high. If he could improve his handle, he would be a terror slashing the basket. He is also a bad FT shooter and because of that, Im not sure how consistent he will be over his career from 3.
pull up jumper? All the guy did was shoot fade away jumpers:-)
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#50 » by Tiny ball » Thu Jun 6, 2019 11:21 am

Celts17Pride wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:I'm bullish on both of them (and think they have different enough games to be complementary on the court--along with Hayward btw), but Brown has never had the BBIQ, vision or skills that you see in top-25 talent. To me, at his best Brown is more of a Dominique Wilkins-type talent (though probably only 80% of Wilkins). Nique had 9 AS bids, so no slouch of course, but not the type to lead a championship team.

Tatum's got to get his head straight and really dig in, but he's still only 21! He could either hum along with a decent career close to his current level of play or IMO make it into that top-10 level.

Second generation pro players like Tatum get such maximal coaching, direction and motivation early on that they tend to be hatched into the NBA as full players with less improvement, whereas guys like Brown who did more getting there on their own are likely to still be adding skills longer into their NBA careers.

Agree. The biggest thing holding Tatum, Brown and Hayward back is the right point guard to go with them in my opinion.
I see the problem is no big guy to get the rebounds pass the ball up the floor run fast get in the paint create miss matches if they didn't score on the fast break. Team needs more easy baskets stop playing like they are old men. A great point guard sure would be nice though.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#51 » by Tiny ball » Thu Jun 6, 2019 11:24 am

LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
Parasite wrote:
AlCelticFan wrote:I mean, almost no one becomes a star, so it's an easy bet that he doesn't. But he's young and has a chance. That's all we can hope for -- that and trading one for AD :), we can hope for that as well.


He’s a good player, seems like a good kid. But it’s just frustrating that he has a particularly glaring weakness and he hasn’t improved it at all. And with AD, we will see. I keep flopping back and forth if I think it’s worth it to bring him here. If he committed long term it would be but I just think he’s gone to LA no matter what. Idk. It’s rough. But that’s why Ainge gets the big bucks. He really can’t afford to **** this up though.
Disagree that Brown hasn't improved his handle at all. If you really think that you must not remember his rookie year handles that well. He has improved from "absolutely terrible" to "bad".
He might go to ok or even good this year.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#52 » by SmartWentCrazy » Thu Jun 6, 2019 1:02 pm

IMO, the Celtics need to trade Hayward if Brown and Tatum are going to hit their ceiling here.

Also, Brown and Tatum are getting seriously underrated. They have their flaws, but theyre still really good players.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#53 » by celtics543 » Thu Jun 6, 2019 3:07 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:I think both guys each have their own glaring flaw.

Tatum: Shot selection. I truly believe shot selection is the only thing holding him back from being a borderline all star in the East. 40% 3pt shooter, 85% at the line and he finished at a very high rate of 68% at the basket last year. The problem is he is far to willing to just settle for a contested pull up mid range jumper. I think he can be deadly from the mid range, but it should never be his 1st or 2nd option. The mid range shot should be a changeup, not his go to move. He also needs to facilitate.

Brown: His handle is horrible. He is never going to be a consistent scoring threat until he improves his handle. Its way to slow and high. If he could improve his handle, he would be a terror slashing the basket. He is also a bad FT shooter and because of that, Im not sure how consistent he will be over his career from 3.


I'm curious if Tatum's flaw is his shot selection or an inability to get to the rim. His handle isn't great and he's not particularly strong so he may be taking the long 2's because that's the shot he can get. Him getting to the basket is great but is he athletic enough to do that consistently?
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#54 » by CelticsLV » Thu Jun 6, 2019 3:39 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:IMO, the Celtics need to trade Hayward if Brown and Tatum are going to hit their ceiling here.

Also, Brown and Tatum are getting seriously underrated. They have their flaws, but theyre still really good players.


If Ainge really decides to focus on Brown and Tatum then I agree. Small ball can work in spurts but Brown/Tatum/Hayward as permanent starting lineup will never work. This season already proved it.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#55 » by djFan71 » Thu Jun 6, 2019 5:14 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:IMO, the Celtics need to trade Hayward if Brown and Tatum are going to hit their ceiling here.

Also, Brown and Tatum are getting seriously underrated. They have their flaws, but theyre still really good players.

Either trade or permanent Manu role. Also, I think it could be tough bringing Terry back into the mix if Hayward stays.

I'm sort of torn about how many scorers a team needs after this season. Is Terry/Brown/Tatum/Hayward too many guys looking for their shot (assuming Gordon actually does)? And assumedly one of the rookies would be in that mold as well.

Seems like the best teams have 2-3 guys, then everyone else is a capable shooter and/or rebounder/defender but not necessarily looking for their own. A la Smart, Horford, Baynes. Or at least different types of scorers. Ours are all wing scorers. If our scoring rookie was at least a big (PJ?) that would help.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#56 » by AlCelticFan » Thu Jun 6, 2019 5:54 pm

Am I the only one who thinks Rozier is trash, and is praying he doesn't come back?
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#57 » by ddb » Thu Jun 6, 2019 6:04 pm

hondobird wrote:You guys know the Celtics and basketball better than I do so please share with my why people seem to have concluded that Tatum and Brown will never grow into the star/top 25 type player. They are both very talented and very young still.
Would appreciate any feedback on this.

Thanks.
Tatum/Brown can be special together. But they need help too.

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#58 » by djFan71 » Thu Jun 6, 2019 6:21 pm

AlCelticFan wrote:Am I the only one who thinks Rozier is trash, and is praying he doesn't come back?

Not at all. That seems to be the board consensus. Only a few holdouts like me and a few others are squatting on Rozier Island.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#59 » by Edug27 » Thu Jun 6, 2019 6:24 pm

AlCelticFan wrote:Am I the only one who thinks Rozier is trash, and is praying he doesn't come back?


I like Rozier. A lot. Not a fan of how he approached this season and some of the comments he had though.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#60 » by JR Hawks » Thu Jun 6, 2019 6:31 pm

We should keep a running list of all the things that need to be done for Brown and Tatum to reach their superstar destiny:

-Let Kyrie go
-Trade Hayward
-Bring in a true point guard
-Bring in a rebounding big
-More shots

What have I missed?

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