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Tatum and Brown, as 1-2 Options

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#701 » by Feed Your Head » Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:09 am

TommyPointGawd wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
3D Chess wrote:Zach Lowe put Brown over Tatum in his all-star team, and stated they are equals on defense. Zach, wtf?

Don't want to accuse him of not watching the games, but, maybe he isn't watching the games? He has basically defaulted to Brown having a better TS% than Tatum as the sole reason for picking him.


Maybe after December i could have seen Jaylen having a case over Tatum, though i still would have picked Tatum. But now? Pretty clear who deserves it IMO. But i may get accused of being a Tatum fanboy, when in reality I'm just a fanboy for winning players.



Are you saying Brown is NOT a winning player?


Saying Tatum is a winning player has nothing to do with Jaylen, so no that is not what I'm saying.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#702 » by TommyPointGawd » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:45 pm

The Comedian wrote:
TommyPointGawd wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
Maybe after December i could have seen Jaylen having a case over Tatum, though i still would have picked Tatum. But now? Pretty clear who deserves it IMO. But i may get accused of being a Tatum fanboy, when in reality I'm just a fanboy for winning players.



Are you saying Brown is NOT a winning player?


Saying Tatum is a winning player has nothing to do with Jaylen, so no that is not what I'm saying.


Thanks for the clarification.

Do you think Jaylen is a winning player? :D
I apologize for the things I have said in the past. :cry:
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#703 » by Feed Your Head » Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:16 pm

TommyPointGawd wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
TommyPointGawd wrote:

Are you saying Brown is NOT a winning player?


Saying Tatum is a winning player has nothing to do with Jaylen, so no that is not what I'm saying.


Thanks for the clarification.

Do you think Jaylen is a winning player? :D


Absolutely. Especially when he plays within himself, which he has done almost all season.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#704 » by ddb » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:08 pm

I love the Celtics young core. I'd like to see Boston go All-in building around JT/JB/Kemba/Hayward. However, Jaylen's value around the league is going to be sky high once his new deal starts. it's a bargain deal for a young All-Starish player.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#705 » by Edug27 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:01 pm

ddb wrote:I love the Celtics young core. I'd like to see Boston go All-in building around JT/JB/Kemba/Hayward. However, Jaylen's value around the league is going to be sky high once his new deal starts. it's a bargain deal for a young All-Starish player.


I think they are all in with building around them. The team is just another legit big man and consistent shooters off the bench away from really making some noise in the East.

Jaylen/Tatum only get moved if some young elite player somehow hits the market.. Which isn't likely.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#706 » by bucknersrevenge » Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:04 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:This is interesting to me.

Kemba, Tatum, and Hayward ON the floor; Jaylen OFF the floor:

Image

Kemba, Tatum, and Brown ON the floor; Hayward OFF the floor:

Image

They're about the same offensively but defensively the trio with Gordon has been way better.


That's kinda eye-opening but unfortunately for me, it does confirm some of what my eyes see. Brown has made huge hurdles in ballhandling, passing, finishing at the rim and overall playing more under control. But defensively, the issues with him are still mental. He falls asleep. He's undisciplined. That's okay. He's still young. Many players don't master the nuances of defense until they hit their prime. But it does provide a stark contrast to Tatum who like Brown said he wanted to be a great 2-way player this year. At age 21, Tatum is 100% accomplishing that. Brown, at 23, has not so far. It does make it easier to understand why some here are harder on Jaylen. It does make it easier to understand why some would be okay parting with Jaylen under the right circumstance. But since I know he's not going anywhere for at least the next 3 years now, I can only hope this is something he improves on with time.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#707 » by zoyathedestroya » Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:23 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:This is interesting to me.

Kemba, Tatum, and Hayward ON the floor; Jaylen OFF the floor:

Image

Kemba, Tatum, and Brown ON the floor; Hayward OFF the floor:

Image

They're about the same offensively but defensively the trio with Gordon has been way better.


That's kinda eye-opening but unfortunately for me, it does confirm some of what my eyes see. Brown has made huge hurdles in ballhandling, passing, finishing at the rim and overall playing more under control. But defensively, the issues with him are still mental. He falls asleep. He's undisciplined. That's okay. He's still young. Many players don't master the nuances of defense until they hit their prime. But it does provide a stark contrast to Tatum who like Brown said he wanted to be a great 2-way player this year. At age 21, Tatum is 100% accomplishing that. Brown, at 23, has not so far. It does make it easier to understand why some here are harder on Jaylen. It does make it easier to understand why some would be okay parting with Jaylen under the right circumstance. But since I know he's not going anywhere for at least the next 3 years now, I can only hope this is something he improves on with time.

The difference is even starker when it's just Jaylen OR Gordon without the other two stars on the floor. The sample may still be too small to be negligible. It could be noise or it could be something.

Hayward ON the floor w/ the other three OFF:

Image

Jaylen ON the floor w/ the other three OFF:

Image

I think right now Jaylen is an above average individual defender who can battle against bigger PFs and decently defend wings/guards on iso but still struggles in PnR. I think while he's improved, he's still a below average team defender for the observations you stated. And in a league that requires more switching, constant rotation, anticipation, and timely help, team defensive acumen takes a higher priority than the ability to lock down one particular player. If he is really that good of a defender, it hasn't translated in the team numbers.

As an aside, look at the team's offensive efficiency when it's just Hayward w/o the other three stars. It's **** gross. If this sample is to be seen as enough, I think it can confirm my thinking that he's not really someone who can carry an offense on his own regardless of the teammates his playing with. So he's not a Kemba or a Lillard or Lebron. Put scrubs around them and they'll find a way to take over the offense. He's more of an enhancer like Horford was. He makes the game of the other stars around him easier with his facilitating/playmaking and great floor game.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#708 » by djFan71 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:33 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:This is interesting to me.

Kemba, Tatum, and Hayward ON the floor; Jaylen OFF the floor:

Image

Kemba, Tatum, and Brown ON the floor; Hayward OFF the floor:

Image

They're about the same offensively but defensively the trio with Gordon has been way better.


That's kinda eye-opening but unfortunately for me, it does confirm some of what my eyes see. Brown has made huge hurdles in ballhandling, passing, finishing at the rim and overall playing more under control. But defensively, the issues with him are still mental. He falls asleep. He's undisciplined. That's okay. He's still young. Many players don't master the nuances of defense until they hit their prime. But it does provide a stark contrast to Tatum who like Brown said he wanted to be a great 2-way player this year. At age 21, Tatum is 100% accomplishing that. Brown, at 23, has not so far. It does make it easier to understand why some here are harder on Jaylen. It does make it easier to understand why some would be okay parting with Jaylen under the right circumstance. But since I know he's not going anywhere for at least the next 3 years now, I can only hope this is something he improves on with time.

The difference is even starker when it's just Jaylen OR Gordon without the other two stars on the floor. The sample may still be too small to be negligible. It could be noise or it could be something.

Hayward ON the floor w/ the other three OFF:

Image

Jaylen ON the floor w/ the other three OFF:

Image

I think right now Jaylen is an above average individual defender who can battle against bigger PFs and decently defend wings/guards on iso but still struggles in PnR. I think while he's improved, he's still a below average team defender for the observations you stated. And in a league that requires more switching, constant rotation, anticipation, and timely help, team defensive acumen takes a higher priority than the ability to lock down one particular player. If he is really that good of a defender, it hasn't translated in the team numbers.

As an aside, look at the team's offensive efficiency when it's just Hayward w/o the other three stars. It's **** gross. If this sample is to be seen as enough, I think it can confirm my thinking that he's not really someone who can carry an offense on his own regardless of the teammates his playing with. So he's not a Kemba or a Lillard or Lebron. Put scrubs around them and they'll find a way to take over the offense. He's more of an enhancer like Horford was. He makes the game of the other stars around him easier with his facilitating/playmaking and great floor game.

Great stuff.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#709 » by tlee324 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:58 pm

Congrats to Jayson well deserved; Jaylen will get there.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#710 » by Jaqua92 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:14 am

sam_I_am wrote:
ddb wrote:I want to talk about Jayson Tatum for a post...Strictly Jayson Tatum. First of all, this kid is getting noticeably stronger. His shoulders/arms are bulking up and not in a bad way. He's shooting the ball better and with more confidence. He's developing into a plus defender getting into lanes and using his length to deflect passes and pick up steals. he's blocking shots. He's finishing around the rim.... We are getting closer and closer to this officially becoming Jayson Tatum's team. Could be as soon as after the All-Star break. Jayson Tatum isn't the perfect player at age 21, but he's surely evolving into a superstar.
I am so, so thankful that Danny Ainge held on to this kid. Lock him up long-term this summer and don't even think twice.


He is pretty damn close to being the perfect player even if he is far from the best. He has handles, long range, perfect form, length, athleticism and is impactful with rebounds, steals, blocks and defense. To put it another way.... with Tatum you get everything you want from your SF.... every box is checked. Giannis is better.....maybe Simmons too.....but there are huge gaps in their games despite dominant abilities. Once Jayson masters playmaking......watch out. If he can kill you with open 3s, step back 3s, mid range, isolations and drives......he will be deadly when he exploits his teammates with the pass. For 10 years.....the SF position I’d locked up. Just like with Pierce.....it’s a matter of reworking the rest of the roster and the job should be easier than it was in 2003.
Giannis has more holes in his game then Tatum..but Giannis is playing at a near GOAT level regular season impact right now. Tatum has future superstar and all NBA potential, but he will never be the best player in the NBA.

I'm sure he will be better than Simmons though.

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#711 » by Celtics_History_Lesson » Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:43 am

Tatum gets, this season, more points, more rebounds, more assists, more steals, more blocks, fewer turnovers, fewer fouls than J Brown does.

Per minute, although they do play nearly the same minutes per game anyway.


Tatum is the team's best player.


Just imagine how amazing Tatum's game would be if he wasn't being held back by the coach and the roster construction, if he was the shooting guard he is supposed to be, instead of having to fill the vacuum the Celtics have at power forward.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#712 » by 31to6 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:00 am

Tatum and Brown. The shorter KD and the more powerful Shawn Kemp of the NBA.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#713 » by djFan71 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:10 am

31to6 wrote:Tatum and Brown. The shorter KD and the more powerful Shawn Kemp of the NBA.

Not bad for a 16 year old and a malcontent.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#714 » by Floody100 » Sun Feb 2, 2020 4:26 am

I know I’m being picky as he had an awesome game today but damn I wish he hit some of those threes today.
Could’ve had well over 40
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#715 » by 31to6 » Sun Feb 2, 2020 12:26 pm

Would you like players who can do this?
Yes, yes I would:
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#716 » by TommyPointGawd » Sun Feb 2, 2020 12:53 pm

31to6 wrote:Would you like players who can do this?
Yes, yes I would:



No thank you, can we please trade them for a superstar.
I apologize for the things I have said in the past. :cry:
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#717 » by sam_I_am » Sun Feb 2, 2020 12:58 pm

TommyPointGawd wrote:
31to6 wrote:Would you like players who can do this?
Yes, yes I would:



No thank you, can we please trade them for a superstar.


Here’s an idea that works, how about Tatum and Bucks pick for Brown and Celtics pick?
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#718 » by philing00 » Mon Feb 3, 2020 12:54 pm

I’m more a Jaylen fan but Tatum racks up points so effortlessly.
If Tatum wasn’t such a pure shooter, we wouldnt be debating who’s better. He takes a lot of “no,no,yes!” shots. If he can improve his driving to the bucket like Brown has and shot selection, he’d be unstoppable.
Defensively Tatum uses his length well, but brown is better on ball when he’s switched on.
I like watching Brown’s play. Tatum is still very awkward on drives just like how Brown was couple years ago.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#719 » by themoneyteam2 » Mon Feb 3, 2020 7:05 pm

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#720 » by Gant » Mon Feb 3, 2020 8:05 pm

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