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Tatum and Brown

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#781 » by cloverleaf » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:30 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:https://www.nba.com/powerrankings/2019-20-week-17
Jayson Tatum (26.8 points per game) has led seven Celtics averaging double-figures over the 10-1 stretch and has shot 24-for-45 from 3-point range over the last five. He already has a new career high for 3-pointers in a season (126), a result of him trading mid-range shots for 3-pointer and improving his shooting off the dribble. After shooting 32.0% on off-the-dribble 3-pointers over his first two seasons, Tatum has shot 39.2% this season, a mark that ranks sixth among 45 players who have attempted at least 100 pull-up 3-pointers.


He had a beautiful shot chart last night. I think he realized how much his poor midrange shooting was hurting him.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#782 » by zoyathedestroya » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:15 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#783 » by TommyPointGawd » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:34 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:
Read on Twitter


What is Taylor Rooks ceiling?

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#784 » by zoyathedestroya » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:12 pm

I'm taking the silly to another level...

Tatum and Brown, 2.66 seasons together
Regular season record: 115-66 (63.53%)
Playoff season record: 15-12 (55.56%)
Zero titles

Stockton and Malone, 18 seasons together
Regular season record: 906-506 (64.16%)
Playoff season record: 85-87 (49.42%)
Zero titles

Will they spend 15 more seasons together but remain title-less?! Tune in at 11!
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#785 » by Gant » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:10 pm

Tatum and Brown will both become significantly better than they are now- bigger, stronger, more consistent, and having more savvy.

1) They will someday be good enough to win a title with, if they aren't already.

2) They even could be better by playoff time this year...

3) ...certainly healthier in Brown's case, which effectively amounts to the same thing.

4) They were both outstanding draft picks. The "reach" for Brown wasn't a reach at all. The trade down and bonus-Langford to go along with Tatum was brilliant front office work.

Neither of these guys was the obvious choice. It was Simmons, Ingram, and everybody else one year; and Fultz, Lonzo, then "-big gap-" Tatum or Josh Jackson next.

It's almost as if the Celtics' decision makers have drafted extremely well.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#786 » by BostonCouchGM » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:48 am

Gant wrote:Tatum and Brown will both become significantly better than they are now- bigger, stronger, more consistent, and having more savvy.

1) They will someday be good enough to win a title with, if they aren't already.

2) They even could be better by playoff time this year...

3) ...certainly healthier in Brown's case, which effectively amounts to the same thing.

4) They were both outstanding draft picks. The "reach" for Brown wasn't a reach at all. The trade down and bonus-Langford to go along with Tatum was brilliant front office work.

Neither of these guys was the obvious choice. It was Simmons, Ingram, and everybody else one year; and Fultz, Lonzo, then "-big gap-" Tatum or Josh Jackson next.

It's almost as if the Celtics' decision makers have drafted extremely well.


simply not true. There's were plenty of people saying Tatum was the best, albeit by varying degrees with little separation, of a very talented draft class. There were glaring red flags with both Fultz and Ball and seemingly none for Tatum except that he's a good not elite athlete. And clearly Danny agreed because reports had Tatum #1 on his board. Brown isn't in Tatum's league. He neither possesses the upside nor the natural skills to become a star. He'd make a great #4 but unfortunately he'll be getting paid top 3 money starting next season which will keep us from winning a championship. Danny gets too much credit for these trades. These are horribly managed organizations making huge mistakes that any G.M. in Danny's shoes would jump on.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#787 » by Gant » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:02 am

BostonCouchGM wrote:
Gant wrote:Tatum and Brown will both become significantly better than they are now- bigger, stronger, more consistent, and having more savvy.

1) They will someday be good enough to win a title with, if they aren't already.

2) They even could be better by playoff time this year...

3) ...certainly healthier in Brown's case, which effectively amounts to the same thing.

4) They were both outstanding draft picks. The "reach" for Brown wasn't a reach at all. The trade down and bonus-Langford to go along with Tatum was brilliant front office work.

Neither of these guys was the obvious choice. It was Simmons, Ingram, and everybody else one year; and Fultz, Lonzo, then "-big gap-" Tatum or Josh Jackson next.

It's almost as if the Celtics' decision makers have drafted extremely well.


simply not true. There's were plenty of people saying Tatum was the best, albeit by varying degrees with little separation, of a very talented draft class. There were glaring red flags with both Fultz and Ball and seemingly none for Tatum except that he's a good not elite athlete. And clearly Danny agreed because reports had Tatum #1 on his board. Brown isn't in Tatum's league. He neither possesses the upside nor the natural skills to become a star. He'd make a great #4 but unfortunately he'll be getting paid top 3 money starting next season which will keep us from winning a championship. Danny gets too much credit for these trades. These are horribly managed organizations making huge mistakes that any G.M. in Danny's shoes would jump on.


"Simply not true." ?

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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#788 » by lou310 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:41 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:simply not true. There's were plenty of people saying Tatum was the best, albeit by varying degrees with little separation, of a very talented draft class.

Historical revisionism much? Fultz was the consensus #1 and then there were 4-5 guys who were seen as more or less equal, although the Lakers made it clear they were going with Ball at #2 from the start. After Boston traded the #1 pick to Philly for #3 it was first thought Ainge wanted Josh Jackson (the most common #3 early on), and reports saying Tatum was our guy only came out a couple of days later.

BostonCouchGM wrote:There were glaring red flags with both Fultz and Ball and seemingly none for Tatum except that he's a good not elite athlete. And clearly Danny agreed because reports had Tatum #1 on his board.

I wouldn't say Fultz had red flags. There were questions about his shooting but not to the point of calling it a "glaring red flag". He was seen as the prototypical modern NBA guard outside of that. Ball did have red flags obviously, and Tatum was seen as a high floor low ceiling guy who didn't have the physical abilities to be a top 10/20 player, and was probably too in love with the midrange to be an efficient scorer.

BostonCouchGM wrote:Brown isn't in Tatum's league. He neither possesses the upside nor the natural skills to become a star. He'd make a great #4 but unfortunately he'll be getting paid top 3 money starting next season which will keep us from winning a championship.

How many teams have 3 guys better than Jaylen Brown? btw consider the fact that he's averaging 20.2/6.4/2.2 on .596 TS%. Between 2010-11 and 2018-19, there were 5 players who averaged 20/6/2 on >.59 TS% before the end of their rookie contract: Kevin Love, AD, KAT, Giannis and Embiid. This year there are 4 rookie contract players averaging those numbers: Zion, Doncic, Ingram and Jaylen Brown.

And he could improve even more in the future, obviously.

BostonCouchGM wrote:Danny gets too much credit for these trades. These are horribly managed organizations making huge mistakes that any G.M. in Danny's shoes would jump on.

Except the GMs managing those horribly managed organizations I assume.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#789 » by sam_I_am » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:57 pm

lou310 wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:simply not true. There's were plenty of people saying Tatum was the best, albeit by varying degrees with little separation, of a very talented draft class.

Historical revisionism much? Fultz was the consensus #1 and then there were 4-5 guys who were seen as more or less equal, although the Lakers made it clear they were going with Ball at #2 from the start. After Boston traded the #1 pick to Philly for #3 it was first thought Ainge wanted Josh Jackson (the most common #3 early on), and reports saying Tatum was our guy only came out a couple of days later.

BostonCouchGM wrote:There were glaring red flags with both Fultz and Ball and seemingly none for Tatum except that he's a good not elite athlete. And clearly Danny agreed because reports had Tatum #1 on his board.

I wouldn't say Fultz had red flags. There were questions about his shooting but not to the point of calling it a "glaring red flag". He was seen as the prototypical modern NBA guard outside of that. Ball did have red flags obviously, and Tatum was seen as a high floor low ceiling guy who didn't have the physical abilities to be a top 10/20 player, and was probably too in love with the midrange to be an efficient scorer.

BostonCouchGM wrote:Brown isn't in Tatum's league. He neither possesses the upside nor the natural skills to become a star. He'd make a great #4 but unfortunately he'll be getting paid top 3 money starting next season which will keep us from winning a championship.

How many teams have 3 guys better than Jaylen Brown? btw consider the fact that he's averaging 20.2/6.4/2.2 on .596 TS%. Between 2010-11 and 2018-19, there were 5 players who averaged 20/6/2 on >.59 TS% before the end of their rookie contract: Kevin Love, AD, KAT, Giannis and Embiid. This year there are 4 rookie contract players averaging those numbers: Zion, Doncic, Ingram and Jaylen Brown.

And he could improve even more in the future, obviously.

BostonCouchGM wrote:Danny gets too much credit for these trades. These are horribly managed organizations making huge mistakes that any G.M. in Danny's shoes would jump on.

Except the GMs managing those horribly managed organizations I assume.


This is a great post. The haters better bring their A game if they want anybody to listen.

With regards to Fultz....people forget that Danny was criticized by almost everybody for that trade. Remember ....”this is the NBA ....you don’t trade down and pass on a generational player”. It wasn’t until July 4th 2017 when Tatum played his first SL game when NBA reporters and fans alike realized what a coup that trade was. Until then, the consensus was that Ainge made a huge mistake.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#790 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:20 am

Ack. Forgot the link. It was on Celticsblog.... Here we go: https://www.celticsblog.com/2020/2/15/21138500/boston-celtics-midseason-progress-report-jaylen-brown

Film-based critique of Jaylen's game.

Basically thinks his offense is great in ISO, transition and spot-up, but P&R and other playmaking is still weak.
His defense is characterized as somewhat better than his meh numbers.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#791 » by BostonCouchGM » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:01 pm

lou310 wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:simply not true. There's were plenty of people saying Tatum was the best, albeit by varying degrees with little separation, of a very talented draft class.

Historical revisionism much? Fultz was the consensus #1 and then there were 4-5 guys who were seen as more or less equal, although the Lakers made it clear they were going with Ball at #2 from the start. After Boston traded the #1 pick to Philly for #3 it was first thought Ainge wanted Josh Jackson (the most common #3 early on), and reports saying Tatum was our guy only came out a couple of days later.

BostonCouchGM wrote:There were glaring red flags with both Fultz and Ball and seemingly none for Tatum except that he's a good not elite athlete. And clearly Danny agreed because reports had Tatum #1 on his board.

I wouldn't say Fultz had red flags. There were questions about his shooting but not to the point of calling it a "glaring red flag". He was seen as the prototypical modern NBA guard outside of that. Ball did have red flags obviously, and Tatum was seen as a high floor low ceiling guy who didn't have the physical abilities to be a top 10/20 player, and was probably too in love with the midrange to be an efficient scorer.

BostonCouchGM wrote:Brown isn't in Tatum's league. He neither possesses the upside nor the natural skills to become a star. He'd make a great #4 but unfortunately he'll be getting paid top 3 money starting next season which will keep us from winning a championship.

How many teams have 3 guys better than Jaylen Brown? btw consider the fact that he's averaging 20.2/6.4/2.2 on .596 TS%. Between 2010-11 and 2018-19, there were 5 players who averaged 20/6/2 on >.59 TS% before the end of their rookie contract: Kevin Love, AD, KAT, Giannis and Embiid. This year there are 4 rookie contract players averaging those numbers: Zion, Doncic, Ingram and Jaylen Brown.

And he could improve even more in the future, obviously.

BostonCouchGM wrote:Danny gets too much credit for these trades. These are horribly managed organizations making huge mistakes that any G.M. in Danny's shoes would jump on.

Except the GMs managing those horribly managed organizations I assume.


yep, goes without saying, obviously
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#792 » by BostonCouchGM » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:36 pm

lou310 wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:simply not true. There's were plenty of people saying Tatum was the best, albeit by varying degrees with little separation, of a very talented draft class.

Historical revisionism much? Fultz was the consensus #1 and then there were 4-5 guys who were seen as more or less equal, although the Lakers made it clear they were going with Ball at #2 from the start. After Boston traded the #1 pick to Philly for #3 it was first thought Ainge wanted Josh Jackson (the most common #3 early on), and reports saying Tatum was our guy only came out a couple of days later.

BostonCouchGM wrote:There were glaring red flags with both Fultz and Ball and seemingly none for Tatum except that he's a good not elite athlete. And clearly Danny agreed because reports had Tatum #1 on his board.

I wouldn't say Fultz had red flags. There were questions about his shooting but not to the point of calling it a "glaring red flag". He was seen as the prototypical modern NBA guard outside of that. Ball did have red flags obviously, and Tatum was seen as a high floor low ceiling guy who didn't have the physical abilities to be a top 10/20 player, and was probably too in love with the midrange to be an efficient scorer.

BostonCouchGM wrote:Brown isn't in Tatum's league. He neither possesses the upside nor the natural skills to become a star. He'd make a great #4 but unfortunately he'll be getting paid top 3 money starting next season which will keep us from winning a championship.

How many teams have 3 guys better than Jaylen Brown? btw consider the fact that he's averaging 20.2/6.4/2.2 on .596 TS%. Between 2010-11 and 2018-19, there were 5 players who averaged 20/6/2 on >.59 TS% before the end of their rookie contract: Kevin Love, AD, KAT, Giannis and Embiid. This year there are 4 rookie contract players averaging those numbers: Zion, Doncic, Ingram and Jaylen Brown.

And he could improve even more in the future, obviously.

BostonCouchGM wrote:Danny gets too much credit for these trades. These are horribly managed organizations making huge mistakes that any G.M. in Danny's shoes would jump on.

Except the GMs managing those horribly managed organizations I assume.


nope. Not revisionist. There were a few people who actually watched Fultz in college who didn't like him. He shrunk in big games, padded stats against weak competition, had a slow/low release on his jumpshot, and horrible body language. And it wasn't that Fultz was bad, it was just that he shouldn't have been hyped by the casuals as some generational talent sure-fire #1. It was an exceptional draft where there was very little separation between any of the lottery picks as far as talent is concerned. Those rumors of Danny liking Jackson at that point were laughable as Jackson didn't show up for a workout and screwed his chance to be taken. Nice try

It isn't hard to put up numbers when you get 15, mostly wide open, shots a game while playing with 3 other all-star caliber starters who provide incredible spacing. I think the majority of teams have three better players than Jaylen and a couple that don't are because they're paying two much better players huge money so they can't afford it.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#793 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:44 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:I think the majority of teams have three better players than Jaylen and a couple that don't are because they're paying two much better players huge money so they can't afford it.


Which 16+ teams do you have in mind? Since you rightly acknowledge Jaylen as being "all-star caliber", which 16+ teams do you think have 4 or more all-star caliber players?
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#794 » by lou310 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:26 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:nope. Not revisionist. There were a few people who actually watched Fultz in college who didn't like him. He shrunk in big games, padded stats against weak competition, had a slow/low release on his jumpshot, and horrible body language. And it wasn't that Fultz was bad, it was just that he shouldn't have been hyped by the casuals as some generational talent sure-fire #1. It was an exceptional draft where there was very little separation between any of the lottery picks as far as talent is concerned.

That's some bull. That's the kind of thing enlightened bball savants bring up when a player is deemed a bust "oh yes his horrible body language made it clear he wouldn't be a good NBA player" as if hindsight wasn't 20/20. Not performing as well in big games and padding stats against weak competition could have as easily been justified by the fact he was playing for a trash team with trash teammates which made it much easier for a quality team to shut him down. His shooting issues were the most legitimate question about him but, like I said, not to the point of calling it a "glaring red flag".

BostonCouchGM wrote:Those rumors of Danny liking Jackson at that point were laughable as Jackson didn't show up for a workout and screwed his chance to be taken. Nice try


The Celtics only asked Josh Jackson (and Tatum fwiw) to work out for them after the trade, so that doesn't negate what I said at all.

BostonCouchGM wrote:It isn't hard to put up numbers when you get 15, mostly wide open, shots a game while playing with 3 other all-star caliber starters who provide incredible spacing. I think the majority of teams have three better players than Jaylen and a couple that don't are because they're paying two much better players huge money so they can't afford it.


I was gonna give a thoughtful reply to this but most of it is so absurd I realized you're probably just trolling
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#795 » by Circa » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:40 pm

Tatum = All nba team and all defense team!
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#796 » by Slax » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:48 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:I think the majority of teams have three better players than Jaylen and a couple that don't are because they're paying two much better players huge money so they can't afford it.


Which 16+ teams do you have in mind? Since you rightly acknowledge Jaylen as being "all-star caliber", which 16+ teams do you think have 4 or more all-star caliber players?

I've seen more than one poster claim that Jaylen is worse than the average third best player on a team, and I feel like that HAS to be bad faith. Nobody REALLY believes that half the teams in the league have three starters better than Brown, do they? And if they genuinely believe that, how could they possibly explain us being near the top of the standings?
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#797 » by Bleeding Green » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:53 pm

Slax wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:I think the majority of teams have three better players than Jaylen and a couple that don't are because they're paying two much better players huge money so they can't afford it.


Which 16+ teams do you have in mind? Since you rightly acknowledge Jaylen as being "all-star caliber", which 16+ teams do you think have 4 or more all-star caliber players?

I've seen more than one poster claim that Jaylen is worse than the average third best player on a team, and I feel like that HAS to be bad faith. Nobody REALLY believes that half the teams in the league have three starters better than Brown, do they? And if they genuinely believe that, how could they possibly explain us being near the top of the standings?

Participate in the gamethreads or any draft-thread and you'd think every other team in the league is filled with hall of famers.
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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#798 » by TommyPointGawd » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:56 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:
It isn't hard to put up numbers when you get 15, mostly wide open, shots a game while playing with 3 other all-star caliber starters who provide incredible spacing. I think the majority of teams have three better players than Jaylen and a couple that don't are because they're paying two much better players huge money so they can't afford it.



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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#799 » by zoyathedestroya » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:48 pm

Stop making "Juice and Smoothie" happen, Zoya! :lol:


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Re: Tatum and Brown 

Post#800 » by Saint Lazarus » Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:32 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:I'm taking the silly to another level...

Tatum and Brown, 2.66 seasons together
Regular season record: 115-66 (63.53%)
Playoff season record: 15-12 (55.56%)
Zero titles

Stockton and Malone, 18 seasons together
Regular season record: 906-506 (64.16%)
Playoff season record: 85-87 (49.42%)
Zero titles

Will they spend 15 more seasons together but remain title-less?! Tune in at 11!


Tatum and Brown: 0 rapes

Stockton and Malone: at least 1 rape

Tatum and Brown are better confirmed.
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