ImageImageImage

Kyrie Irving Goodbye Thread

Moderators: canman1971, sully00, SmartWentCrazy, The Comedian, Parliament10, Froob, ParticleMan, djFan71

SmartWentCrazy
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 12,999
And1: 19,225
Joined: Dec 29, 2014

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#261 » by SmartWentCrazy » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:51 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:The worst case for us would be the Nets maxing Kyrie day one and then sign and trading Russell to Philly for Harris..


Yah, a JJ/DLo backcourt wouldnt work defensively.
Andrew McCeltic
RealGM
Posts: 17,853
And1: 5,429
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
 

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#262 » by Andrew McCeltic » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:57 pm

It’s possible Kyrie is serious about wanting to be the face of a franchise, and he thinks Davis (or soon Brown or Tatum) could have more “star power” than he does - Rose had that problem after Butler emerged in Chicago..
The Corey's
Head Coach
Posts: 6,425
And1: 3,033
Joined: Jan 29, 2006

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#263 » by The Corey's » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:30 pm

Can we sign and trade Irving and that's how he can get his 5th year or did they do away with that?
Ainge gots to **** go yo
User avatar
GoCeltics123
General Manager
Posts: 8,758
And1: 12,497
Joined: May 05, 2015
         

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#264 » by GoCeltics123 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:39 pm

Read on Twitter


There’s a point that seems to be getting missed by those who’ve responded to Kyrie Irving’s potential departure with a chorus of “good riddance” … I had it a second ago, but it appears to have slipped my mind.

Oh, yeah: He’s really good at basketball.

I’m certainly not here to defend the his rather interesting concept of leadership and how it damaged what was already a tenuous balancing act on a roster with too many agendas.

And I can see, too, how it must have looked from a Celtic fan’s perspective to try to follow his statements from day to day. Hey, I had to listen to that stuff and transcribe it — and attempt to translate it. And I can tell you some of his teammates were left similarly incredulous by a number of his comments.

But the man can play, and anyone says otherwise is letting emotion overrule reason. It takes more than talent to win in the NBA, but that doesn’t mean it’s not still a talent league.

And that’s why the Celtics, after dealing with the mercurial Irving over the course of the year, are still trying to throw a hail Kyrie pass. In the face of evidence that he’s about to leave as a free agent, the club is holding on tight to its chip and a chair at the poker table, hoping the cards break right for them.

It’s easy to understand why. The Celtics are in the business of winning. All NBA teams are. (Well, most.) And the shortest distance between where the Celts are now and an 18th championship for the franchise would be to retain Irving and surround him with a more complementary roster.

And this wouldn’t mean role players, although the C’s could use a few people who are more willing to accept their job description. It could be another star that Irving respects enough to share the high-level workload, sort of the way Kyrie was talking about the pre-injury Gordon Hayward.

Absent the effects of injury and age, skill is a constant for those who possess gifts and work hard to maintain them (Irving most certainly does). If the skill is present and the results do not meet expectation, the first course of action is to consider changing the environment. Designing an offense or a roster to fit the best player or players isn’t pandering; it’s good business. And it’s done all over the corporate world.

But Fortune 500 companies execute most of these decisions behind closed boardroom doors, not before 19,000 people in an arena, with high definition cameras acting as conduits for scores of others. You don’t have to watch people get fired so a hotshot who’s been producing can get to work with their preferred staff.

So, again, I get those whose exasperation level red-lined with these Irving-led Celtics.

I, too, watched as he lowered his head (and his abundant basketball IQ) and drove into Milwaukee traffic, shooting 30.1 percent and taking the Celts out of what little flow they had left at that stage. I saw him average 1.6 fewer assists and commit an extra turnover from his regular season marks over that stretch.

But over this full season and in years past I also saw him make plays that maybe no one else in the NBA could. And I heard Brad Stevens acknowledge the luxury of having a player who could create a scoring opportunity when everything else had broken down around him.
In that regard, Irving’s failure to do so against the Bucks was beyond mind-boggling. I heard him speak confidently after the Game 2 loss about knowing how he’d messed up and understanding how to correct it.

When there was more of the same silliness in Game 3 back at the Garden, it was clear that he and the Celtics were broken individually and collectively in a way that wasn’t about to be fixed in time to stave off summer.

But to think the problems will be solved by the best player leaving — WITH NOTHING IN RETURN — is ludicrous.

It’d be throwing your 60-inch ultra HD television out a fifth-story window late in the third period of Bruins-Blues Game 7. You don’t have to watch the rest of that mess, but what are you going to do for a TV now?

And even if you could afford a replacement, Best Buy doesn’t stock Kyrie Irvings on its shelves.
Winning>Losing

I lost the bet so I Hate Truth18
User avatar
zoyathedestroya
Analyst
Posts: 3,415
And1: 7,103
Joined: Nov 05, 2017

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#265 » by zoyathedestroya » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:49 pm

All I'm hoping for out of this is Spencer Dinwiddie and/or Joe Harris going to the Celtics in an S&T.
User avatar
John Murdoch
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,978
And1: 3,622
Joined: Sep 16, 2013
         

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#266 » by John Murdoch » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:51 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:For what it’s worth, if Lebron hadn’t come back to Cleveland, Kyrie would have taken a major reputation hit on losing teams as a scoring guard who doesn’t defend - he’d be closer to Devin Booker than Steph Curry, if he wasn’t just written off as an empty stat guy..


Ehh i wouldnt say Dbook , more Lillard range but ik what u mean
Blackification wrote:I **** hate that crackhead corey brewer
FlatearthZorro
RealGM
Posts: 15,329
And1: 7,172
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
Location: Somewhere in Boston
     

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#267 » by FlatearthZorro » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:54 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:All I'm hoping for out of this is Spencer Dinwiddie and/or Joe Harris going to the Celtics in an S&T.


Joe Harris would be nice off the bench. We need sharpshooters. I doubt they trade Diwnwiddie to us. Maybe if we give them a pick or 2.
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
User avatar
canman1971
Senior Mod - Celtics
Senior Mod - Celtics
Posts: 13,087
And1: 5,567
Joined: May 13, 2003
Location: 17 Championship BLVD
       

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#268 » by canman1971 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:57 pm

I still think Kyrie comes back. Everything we have heard has been media driven, regardless if it's saying what the Celtics think or whatever. Kyrie doesn't talk to anyone, perhaps not even Ainge or Stevens. Therefore, it's easier to speculate he's leaving, which very well could be true, but this time of year is madness, and it only gets worse every year.
Andrew McCeltic
RealGM
Posts: 17,853
And1: 5,429
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
 

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#269 » by Andrew McCeltic » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:58 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:The worst case for us would be the Nets maxing Kyrie day one and then sign and trading Russell to Philly for Harris..


Yah, a JJ/DLo backcourt wouldnt work defensively.


It’s possible they could move on from Reddick, that Russell could get better defensively, and/or that they could keep Butler, get Russell, and start DAR/Butler/Simmons/Simmons/Embiid.. that one is tough to work capwise, Harris would have to sacrifice a couple million..

It would actually be easier to work a sign and trade with us.. they could renounce every hold but DAR, RHJ and Ed Davis, max Harris outright, and I think then send out DAR at 25 million and take back Kyrie at his weird 20 out 32 in number.. they might have to renounce one of Davis/RHJ..

FWIW, if they can unload Dinwiddie and Joe Harris, they’d be able to effectively max Tobias, Kyrie and Russell, but they’d have

Kyrie
Russell
Levert
Harris
Allen

Plus Prince, Musa and Kurucs off the bench, and four vet minimum signings..

Vs Harris then DAR sign and trade, which would leave them with

Kyrie/Dinwiddie
LeVert/Musa
Harris/RHJ/Prince
Harris/Ed Davis/Kurucs
Allen

and a vet minimum backup center..

All that math may be off a little, but it looks like DAR for Kyrie could be in the best interest of the Nets.. It’s Kyrie and DAR vs Kyrie, Dinwiddie, Joe Harris, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson and Ed Davis

What I don’t know is when a signed and traded player can be traded again - the moratorium on trading recently signed free agents is December or January, it’s circumvented in a sign and trade by a contract clause requiring a trade to the destination team within 48 hours.. but I don’t know if the restriction then disappears or if we wouldn’t be able to flip Russell (for Conley) until December..

Anyway a three-team Kyrie-for-Russell-for-Conley trade is even more far-fetched than Kyrie for Russell.. all the theoretical cap details are giving me a new appreciation for guys like Mike Zarren..
Andrew McCeltic
RealGM
Posts: 17,853
And1: 5,429
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
 

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#270 » by Andrew McCeltic » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:22 pm

Re: Bulpett, I think another issue for Kyrie would be what the roster looks like if he comes back and we don’t get Davis. If Hayward isn’t back to peak form, are we able to trade him? Is Jaylen staying? Tatum?

The problem with the “too many agendas” explanation for the chemistry issues is that it’s not clear who had the agendas.. we know guys were unhappy, but Ainge has said Rozier and Brown ultimately adjusted, so it sounds mostly like Tatum - and maybe contract year Morris, but from what I could see he was less of a chucker than the year before..

But we know Rozier, Brown and Tatum not only think they’re good enough to deserve large offensive roles, they are actually good enough. And none of them want to play the Harrison Barnes role as an understudy giving up a breadth of developmental opportunities and shots to try to perfect the one or two play types that fit around the star players..

I thought we should have traded Rozier in the preseason (Dragan Bender drinking protein shakes and that Milwaukee pick sound great right now), but what I don’t know is how many tweaks would make the current roster work - like, if you lose Morris and Rozier, and Hayward comes back to pre-injury usage, does that open up enough shots and minutes for Brown and Tatum to stay in their roles without being frustrated?
User avatar
zoyathedestroya
Analyst
Posts: 3,415
And1: 7,103
Joined: Nov 05, 2017

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#271 » by zoyathedestroya » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:21 pm

This is pathetic. I'm now listening to Cowherd and Bucher after listening to Bontemps and Windhorst podcast.



Save me and let it be July 1 already lol.
djFan71
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 6,452
And1: 5,869
Joined: Jul 24, 2010
Location: Finding places to dump excess Kool Aid
 

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#272 » by djFan71 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:27 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:This is pathetic. I'm now listening to Cowherd and Bucher after listening to Bontemps and Windhorst podcast.



Save me and let it be July 1 already lol.

Image
Triple7
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,965
And1: 1,066
Joined: Aug 23, 2018
 

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#273 » by Triple7 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:51 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:All I'm hoping for out of this is Spencer Dinwiddie and/or Joe Harris going to the Celtics in an S&T.


Yup let’s do that. No D-slow please.
Triple7
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,965
And1: 1,066
Joined: Aug 23, 2018
 

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#274 » by Triple7 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:55 am

John Murdoch wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:For what it’s worth, if Lebron hadn’t come back to Cleveland, Kyrie would have taken a major reputation hit on losing teams as a scoring guard who doesn’t defend - he’d be closer to Devin Booker than Steph Curry, if he wasn’t just written off as an empty stat guy..


Ehh i wouldnt say Dbook , more Lillard range but ik what u mean


If Curry didn’t play with Klay, he’d be like kyrie with better shooting, and with no defense as well.
Jaqua92
Head Coach
Posts: 6,902
And1: 3,851
Joined: Feb 21, 2017
 

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#275 » by Jaqua92 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:13 am

Triple7 wrote:
John Murdoch wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:For what it’s worth, if Lebron hadn’t come back to Cleveland, Kyrie would have taken a major reputation hit on losing teams as a scoring guard who doesn’t defend - he’d be closer to Devin Booker than Steph Curry, if he wasn’t just written off as an empty stat guy..


Ehh i wouldnt say Dbook , more Lillard range but ik what u mean


If Curry didn’t play with Klay, he’d be like kyrie with better shooting, and with no defense as well.
This makes me feel so much more confident in disagreeing with your AD takes. Curry is one of the offensive GOATS. Kyrie with better shooting..please.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Game - It's an L
The_Ghost_of_JB
RealGM
Posts: 14,066
And1: 7,455
Joined: Mar 04, 2010
Location: 7/4/16: The day Durant nuked the NBA leaving only the warriors as survivors.
   

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#276 » by The_Ghost_of_JB » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:15 am

I do wonder when people are going to stop bringing up sign-and-trades because they pretty much never happen with the new CBA. There is no chance whatsoever that there will be a sign trade with Irving.
Plus the nets have two Max spots available. Why would they bother with this sign and trade nonsense?
*Insert witty signature here.*
Parasite
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,555
And1: 1,257
Joined: May 06, 2005
     

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#277 » by Parasite » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:18 am

canman1971 wrote:I still think Kyrie comes back. Everything we have heard has been media driven, regardless if it's saying what the Celtics think or whatever. Kyrie doesn't talk to anyone, perhaps not even Ainge or Stevens. Therefore, it's easier to speculate he's leaving, which very well could be true, but this time of year is madness, and it only gets worse every year.


Come on man, he’s history. He just sacked his agent and signed on with an agency that is owned by the Nets owners brother. I believe I have the particulars correct, if not someone can correct me. Regardless of that though, he was gone at the all star break. I really believe that. We will be fine.
LuckyLeprechaun
Senior
Posts: 575
And1: 576
Joined: Jul 24, 2015
 

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#278 » by LuckyLeprechaun » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:30 am

The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:I do wonder when people are going to stop bringing up sign-and-trades because they pretty much never happen with the new CBA. There is no chance whatsoever that there will be a sign trade with Irving.
Plus the nets have two Max spots available. Why would they bother with this sign and trade nonsense?
Only possible reason would be if they wanted a little more than 2 max slots so we'd take back someone under contract in that scenario . They certainly wouldn't do DRuss for Kyrie like many suggest as they can just renounce DRuss for the space.
Fencer reregistered
RealGM
Posts: 18,713
And1: 6,526
Joined: Oct 25, 2006

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#279 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:54 am

The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:I do wonder when people are going to stop bringing up sign-and-trades because they pretty much never happen with the new CBA. There is no chance whatsoever that there will be a sign trade with Irving.
Plus the nets have two Max spots available. Why would they bother with this sign and trade nonsense?


They could be bribed with a pick. Why wouldn't they accept that?
djFan71
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 6,452
And1: 5,869
Joined: Jul 24, 2010
Location: Finding places to dump excess Kool Aid
 

Re: Kyrie Irving Thread, Part 2 -- Is he Green, or is he Gone? 

Post#280 » by djFan71 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:01 am

LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
The_Ghost_of_JB wrote:I do wonder when people are going to stop bringing up sign-and-trades because they pretty much never happen with the new CBA. There is no chance whatsoever that there will be a sign trade with Irving.
Plus the nets have two Max spots available. Why would they bother with this sign and trade nonsense?
Only possible reason would be if they wanted a little more than 2 max slots so we'd take back someone under contract in that scenario . They certainly wouldn't do DRuss for Kyrie like many suggest as they can just renounce DRuss for the space.

If they s&t they can do 2 maxes AND keep Russell by signing him last.
Everyone understands the possibility of it happening is low. But it is possible and you can come up with win win scenarios.

Return to Boston Celtics