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What's plan B, C, D now?

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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#101 » by return2glory » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:27 am

I expect Horford to be back and I want him back.
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#102 » by LuckyLeprechaun » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:14 am

djFan71 wrote:
31to6 wrote:
illmatic24 wrote:
I want him too but I'd have to assume Tatum, Memphis pick and more would be the starting point. Smart would also probably have to go out to match the salary, similar to most rumored Davis trade proposals. So it's not happening, unfortunately.


A guy like Beal is right around the peak cost it will ever take to acquire him, right now. So why even think about buying high? He’s a newly-minted All Star who’s very unlikely to be a top two player on a title team and will be due a huge contract extension. Why not just keep Jaylen, Smart, Tatum, and our potentially-valuable draft picks? Are we just hankering for some action?

Agreed. The whole goal is to get a top 5-10 player. We didn't get the last few. But, why trade for Beal who will never be one? We either develop from what we have or the draft or be ready next time one's available. Spending any assets on a guy like Beal doesn't appeal to me.
Depends if Beal is a better asset than what you trade for him. He's 25 and an all star and signed for a few years. We *hope* Brown and Tatum get to his level by the time they are 25 but we can't guarentee it happens. It would be far easier to trade for a player using Beal as the centerpiece than it is using Brown or even Tatum right now.
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#103 » by djFan71 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:21 am

LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
djFan71 wrote:
31to6 wrote:
A guy like Beal is right around the peak cost it will ever take to acquire him, right now. So why even think about buying high? He’s a newly-minted All Star who’s very unlikely to be a top two player on a title team and will be due a huge contract extension. Why not just keep Jaylen, Smart, Tatum, and our potentially-valuable draft picks? Are we just hankering for some action?

Agreed. The whole goal is to get a top 5-10 player. We didn't get the last few. But, why trade for Beal who will never be one? We either develop from what we have or the draft or be ready next time one's available. Spending any assets on a guy like Beal doesn't appeal to me.
Depends if Beal is a better asset than what you trade for him. He's 25 and an all star and signed for a few years. We *hope* Brown and Tatum get to his level by the time they are 25 but we can't guarentee it happens. It would be far easier to trade for a player using Beal as the centerpiece than it is using Brown or even Tatum right now.

There's also the "you need someone to pair with your superstar" aspect. I'm not completely opposed to it. But, he's not a guy that I'm salivating over either.
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#104 » by mzepol » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:32 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:Horford still chilling with the camels in Dubai. We wait for what comes out of his talk with Danny. Al is the next decision point. Opt in deadline is 18th.


Agreed. Whatever the FO does with regards to Big Al, i hope Al buys into, whether staying with the youth movement or being traded to a contender.
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#105 » by Joshyjess » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:02 am

A couple of thoughts:
First of all, let's get rid of all the tanking talk. The last thing we need is to teach our guys that it's OK to lose. We want Tatum and Brown to learn to win, not to lose. Tanking isn't even a thought that should be entertained by any fan.
Secondly, a lot depends on Hayward. If GH is close to the player he was just 2 years ago, we have an all-star on our team. Let's not forget how good this guy has the potential to be.
Third - now that Kyrie is gone (most likely), Brad should be able to get the team back. Stevens is still an amazing coach, when he's not having to deal with giant NBA sized egos. Hopefully this year most of the egos are gone, and Brad can once again be the coach we've come to expect.
Fourth, I really hope that Horford decides to stay. I want him to win a ring, but I also love having him on the team. Hopefully he'll see potential on this team that will make him want to stay.
Fifth - Time Lord!!!!!!!
Sixth - I really, really hope we keep Smart. He's the heart and soul of this team. If we lose him, we'll lose more than most people realize.
Seventh - Let's get rid of Rozier and Morris. Let another team deal with their need to be the "guy"
Eighth - Let's find an actually identity next year. Elite defensive team. Three point specialist. Run and Gun. Let's find out what kind of team we have and stick with it.
Ninth - One good thing about last year's disaster, it has taken off a lot of the pressure that the team was under last year. Last year all we heard was talk about how this team was the favorite to win it all. How Tatum was the next Durant, and how our young guys were some of the best in the league. This year, nobody is going to be expecting that much. That should make life a bit easier for the guys.
And finally - Time Lord!!!!!
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#106 » by soxfan2003 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:17 am

Paying a high price for Beal is just repeating the Kyrie Irving mistake. And what makes it worse, it makes it harder for Hayward's value to recover and for Tatum to be given a real chance to develop. And yes, trading for Kyrie with no real plans to go for it while he was on a cheap contract...has to be considered a mistake. Not the worst mistake in the world but still a clear mistake. At least thanks to Kyrie walking, Ainge won't compound that mistake by giving him a 5 year maximum extension.

This team needs to desperately work on the PF/C positions. Maybe best option is another short visit to lottery while keeping Tatum/Brown/Smart Then perhaps that top 10 pick can be flipped for a quality big.

I do think team needs to build right now assuming James Harden is the next top 10 player available to the Celtics that shakes loose. Houston will probably just want to dump him for picks/young talent without getting an expensive contracts in return. Price to pay won't be nearly as high as Davis -- Laker's paid a huge price for a player that may have done there for free after next season --- but it will still cost whoever gets him.
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#107 » by ermocrate » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:23 am

soxfan2003 wrote:Paying a high price for Beal is just repeating the Kyrie Irving mistake. And what makes it worse, it makes it harder for Hayward's value to recover and for Tatum to be given a real chance to develop. And yes, trading for Kyrie with no real plans to go for it while he was on a cheap contract...has to be considered a mistake. Not the worst mistake in the world but still a clear mistake. At least thanks to Kyrie walking, Ainge won't compound that mistake by giving him a 5 year maximum extension.

This team needs to desperately work on the PF/C positions. Maybe best option is another short visit to lottery while keeping Tatum/Brown/Smart Then perhaps that top 10 pick can be flipped for a quality big.

I do think team needs to build right now assuming James Harden is the next top 10 player available to the Celtics that shakes loose. Houston will probably just want to dump him for picks/young talent without getting an expensive contracts in return. Price to pay won't be nearly as high as Davis -- Laker's paid a huge price for a player that may have done there for free after next season --- but it will still cost whoever gets him.

The big mistake right now seems to be Stevens as an head coach, looks like he is unable to manage Stars and this reflects also on young kids. The “egalitarian” philosophy is not going to work in the NBA if you want to win a title. I hope we can find a better coach.
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#108 » by Drax » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:35 am

My personal offseason goals:

First let Rozier and Morris walk, no matter what. Don't care if we lose either for nothing. They are selfish players we do not want arround Tatum and Brown.

Second try everything you can to convince Kyrie and Al to stay.

- If both stay, get a sharpshooter of the bench and redo last season. Two usage players less, a healthier Gordon Hayward, defined roles and we will be a much better team.
- If Kyrie leaves and Al stays, get a replacement for Kyrie and Rozier. My personal choice Ricky Rubio a team player, veteran, not a huge ego and knows how to control a game.
- If Al leaves and Kyrie stays, we have a bigger problem. Finding a replacement for an allrounder like Al is tough.
- If both leave go young and hand the reigns to Jayson, commit to making him the focal point of everything and plan for a future free agency.
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#109 » by ParticleMan » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:42 am

ermocrate wrote:
soxfan2003 wrote:Paying a high price for Beal is just repeating the Kyrie Irving mistake. And what makes it worse, it makes it harder for Hayward's value to recover and for Tatum to be given a real chance to develop. And yes, trading for Kyrie with no real plans to go for it while he was on a cheap contract...has to be considered a mistake. Not the worst mistake in the world but still a clear mistake. At least thanks to Kyrie walking, Ainge won't compound that mistake by giving him a 5 year maximum extension.

This team needs to desperately work on the PF/C positions. Maybe best option is another short visit to lottery while keeping Tatum/Brown/Smart Then perhaps that top 10 pick can be flipped for a quality big.

I do think team needs to build right now assuming James Harden is the next top 10 player available to the Celtics that shakes loose. Houston will probably just want to dump him for picks/young talent without getting an expensive contracts in return. Price to pay won't be nearly as high as Davis -- Laker's paid a huge price for a player that may have done there for free after next season --- but it will still cost whoever gets him.

The big mistake right now seems to be Stevens as an head coach, looks like he is unable to manage Stars and this reflects also on young kids. The “egalitarian” philosophy is not going to work in the NBA if you want to win a title. I hope we can find a better coach.


stevens is hardly the only coach who's had trouble with kyrie. why do you think we were able to trade a gimpy IT for him?

stevens is still our best organizational asset. he didn't forget how to coach. give him a superstar like tim duncan and he would be great at managing them.
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#110 » by ermocrate » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:51 am

ParticleMan wrote:
ermocrate wrote:
soxfan2003 wrote:Paying a high price for Beal is just repeating the Kyrie Irving mistake. And what makes it worse, it makes it harder for Hayward's value to recover and for Tatum to be given a real chance to develop. And yes, trading for Kyrie with no real plans to go for it while he was on a cheap contract...has to be considered a mistake. Not the worst mistake in the world but still a clear mistake. At least thanks to Kyrie walking, Ainge won't compound that mistake by giving him a 5 year maximum extension.

This team needs to desperately work on the PF/C positions. Maybe best option is another short visit to lottery while keeping Tatum/Brown/Smart Then perhaps that top 10 pick can be flipped for a quality big.

I do think team needs to build right now assuming James Harden is the next top 10 player available to the Celtics that shakes loose. Houston will probably just want to dump him for picks/young talent without getting an expensive contracts in return. Price to pay won't be nearly as high as Davis -- Laker's paid a huge price for a player that may have done there for free after next season --- but it will still cost whoever gets him.

The big mistake right now seems to be Stevens as an head coach, looks like he is unable to manage Stars and this reflects also on young kids. The “egalitarian” philosophy is not going to work in the NBA if you want to win a title. I hope we can find a better coach.


stevens is hardly the only coach who's had trouble with kyrie. why do you think we were able to trade a gimpy IT for him?

stevens is still our best organizational asset. he didn't forget how to coach. give him a superstar like tim duncan and he would be great at managing them.

I think everyone can coach a superstar like “Tim Duncan”, they are not made in series tho... Even though there’s no I in TEAM a hierarchy HAS to exist, you simply don’t value Steve Kerr the same you value MJ, If MJ says the team has to work harder, Kerr isn’t going on tv telling he has to shut the **** up, that’s a coach that has lost his handle. Kerr has to shut up and the coach has to (eventually) go to Michael and tell him to chill out because the guys need a break. You may say Irving is not Jordan, yeah that’s true but Brown is not Steve Kerr. Kyrie hasn’t had any problem with Coach Overrated (K), David Blatt, Ty Lue or Brad Stevens.. Anyway when he will be officially gone he will be another enemy but that’s not the case already.
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#111 » by ParticleMan » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:52 am

the plan:

- baynes is coming back. besides AD, this was actually my #2 priority.
- #1 is convincing Al to stay.
- let morris walk. we have a logjam at the wing, and morris isn't going to be happy with limited minutes.
- rozier, i'm torn. i think a lot of issues were around kyrie. i wouldn't mind him back at the right price. but that is below MLE money, and i think he will get more. ultimately he would be a backup here and he won't be happy with that.
- the draft is crucial. i'm not a draftnik, but we have to get some good depth and development projects. please danny, no dancing bears this time.
- we need a true C, a super-baynes, because baynes is a 15-20 min guy not a starter. this would be my MLE target. honestly, DAJ might be the guy.
- ideally our starters would be smart/brown/tatum/horford/baynes or MLE. hayward as super sub.
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#112 » by blitzer » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:11 am

I really like Al, but if we somehow can let him go and get Capela in return, I'm down.
Sign D. Russel.
Young core of Russel, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Capela, Williams, plus rookies this year is something we can build on.
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#113 » by 31to6 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:32 am

I don’t want this to happen but Hayward for Love balances our roster (with a four who can’t play a lick of defense and is signed for two years longer than Hayward).
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#114 » by gocelts » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:46 am

Keep everyone including Rozier and see who steps up.

Add another veteran that isn't a head case and actually wants to be here.

That's it. We have the talent to win. We just don't have enough leadership/chemistry.
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#115 » by winsomme2 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:56 am

gocelts wrote:Keep everyone including Rozier and see who steps up.

Add another veteran that isn't a head case and actually wants to be here.

That's it. We have the talent to win. We just don't have enough leadership/chemistry.


I would love to agree here, but I am def down on Brown and Rozier at this point.

JBs poor FT is an indicator that he isn't going to be a reliable scoring threat. And Rozier's continued struggles finishing at the rim will limit him as well.

They both are not great ballhandlers and streaky shooters.

I think we should sell high on JB. Just not sure who we should target.
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#116 » by La Flame » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:54 pm

Try to be in a position to have 2 max slots when Hayward's contract ends
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#117 » by zoyathedestroya » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:59 pm

I really need Timelord to become good enough to start at some point this season. Unreasonable? Probably. But not from the guy who will shout CHAMPIONSHIP! every chance he gets.
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#118 » by zoyathedestroya » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:02 pm

La Flame wrote:Try to be in a position to have 2 max slots when Hayward's contract ends

Bradley Beal (28) and Giannis Antetokounmpo (26). Why not.
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#119 » by chrisab123 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:35 pm

gocelts wrote:Keep everyone including Rozier and see who steps up.

Add another veteran that isn't a head case and actually wants to be here.

That's it. We have the talent to win. We just don't have enough leadership/chemistry.


But keeping Rozier helps chemistry how? Unless he is the number 1 option on this team he is going to cause hell. He is not that good. While normally this would make him a tremendous tank commander the goal here is to get back to contention quickly. Might take a couple of seasons but Rozier coming back might set this team back further. They need leadership. Rondo would be perfect but I'm guessing he's going back to the Lakers. Unless he did something to make LeBron/Klutch angry.

If I were the Celtics I would be on the phone with OKC doing almost everything in my power to pry Paul George out of there. George and Kawhi were terrible swings and misses. Butler was meh. Ainge made the right move avoiding him. Also, does Brad Stevens have another gear in him? Can he actually evolve as a pro coach or is he going to head back to college after this season? A lot probably depends on the team going through another rebuild.
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Re: What's plan B, C, D now? 

Post#120 » by chrisab123 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:40 pm

return2glory wrote:I expect Horford to be back and I want him back.


I want him back but I also believe its really 50/50. The team could easily move him to help align its new timeline for contention which is probably 2-4 seasons away. Horford isn't getting younger and while he's an excellent piece I could see the Celtics signing mook to an inflated deal that can be flipped and working out an agreement with Al to trade him for someone like Capela. Signing Mook to an inflated 1 or 2 year deal is probably the only way he doesn't sign with the Lakers. Another option for an Al trade is possibly New Orleans...team Big Al with Zion Jrue and whoever else they get in a trade for the 4th pick would be a nice core to work with. But that probably shouldn't happen because they would also arguably be a worse team than Boston.

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