ImageImageImage

Danny Ainge is gun shy myth....

Moderators: Froob, ParticleMan, The Comedian, Parliament10, canman1971, djFan71, sully00

MagicBagley18
Analyst
Posts: 3,058
And1: 2,966
Joined: Feb 15, 2019
   

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#21 » by MagicBagley18 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:59 pm

shi-woo wrote:
WhateverBro wrote:PG is and always was better than Hayward though. He shouldve traded for PG even if it meant not signing Hayward.

He messed up on all of these except Kyrie.
It wasn't Hayward vs George though,it was Hayward, Brown, and Tatum vs George. It looks bad In hindsight with Kyrie leaving and AD telling us to F off, but at the time it was the right more. Why would you trade all your assets for a player that can't even get you out of the first round in the West, when you can sign a player that led his team to the 2nd round, and try to move those assets for another star?

That's why I'm appalled by the basketball communities anger at Ainge. He made the right moves, they just didn't work out because of a freak injury to a max player, and Kyrie and AD unwillingness to commit to the team. It happens, it did happen, and we should be glad Danny put us in a position where we aren't totally depleted in the aftermath

Sent from my D6708 using RealGM mobile app


it wasnt even hayward vs george.....the plan was PG AND hayward. WE had to get the max free agent 1st then trade for PG. Pacers didn't wanna wait and backed out last minute and took okc deal
timpiker
Junior
Posts: 439
And1: 297
Joined: Nov 13, 2010

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#22 » by timpiker » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:05 pm

Just read Denver wouldn't trade for AD because they refused to give up Murray for a 1 yr rental. Nothing wrong with the plans but when players don't want to be a C, F 'em and move on. Unless u bitcher's want to offer free bj's to the likes of Cryee and AD, then sit back and enjoy what we have.
cloverleaf
Head Coach
Posts: 6,394
And1: 3,655
Joined: Feb 10, 2007

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#23 » by cloverleaf » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:58 pm

Afam wrote:A lot people might be afraid to say this, but playing with the celtics helped Danny Ainge get the GM job, Vice president of basketball operations, and now President of basketball operations.

If Danny Ainge never played for the celtics, a great player, a hall of famer, he probably doesn’t get the employed by the celtics. His celtics career helped him with the Kevin Garnett trade. If not because of his celtics ties, a the one championship in 2008, he probably would have been fired a long time ago.


I know you're always gunning for Danny, but you seem to have conveniently forgotten his roles and success with the Suns.
User avatar
BillTheGOAT
Rookie
Posts: 1,187
And1: 939
Joined: Oct 23, 2008
 

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#24 » by BillTheGOAT » Sat Jul 6, 2019 12:49 pm

BillTheGOAT wrote:Kawhi Leonard:

This one in hindsight hurts. But we had the ultimate goal of getting AD and Celtics fans were torn on Kawhi. While the Raptors had nothing to lose. Worse case scenario for the Raptors was that he would bolt in a year but they get rid of DD ugly contract. We were asked to give up Brown, Smart and picks for a malcontent player and his crazy uncle.
Ainge wants a commitment for giving up players, for someone that would've/could've bolted in a year. There were, and still reports out there that he might go to te Clippers. Of course winning is the ultimate goal but for one year of Kawhi?

Derozan is not that good. Brown had/has upside and is younger cheaper. At least for another year.

It only worked for the Raptors because they were at a dead end. DD as your best player would never take them to the Finals. It also helped them that the Celtics were dysfunctional, Sixers are who they are and Bucks overachieved. KD and Klay both injured etc.. They had all kinds of luck, all time lucky championship run. I still give Ainge a pass knowing they had EXTREME luck.

Ainge did the right thing. Championships are not guaranteed, having players on rookie contracts with upside is however.
User avatar
31to6
RealGM
Posts: 12,289
And1: 13,311
Joined: Nov 20, 2004
Location: all your picks

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#25 » by 31to6 » Sat Jul 6, 2019 1:09 pm

They’re all in LA, NY, or MIA now. WOW!
User avatar
Celts17Pride
RealGM
Posts: 40,668
And1: 24,956
Joined: Nov 27, 2005

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#26 » by Celts17Pride » Sat Jul 6, 2019 1:50 pm

Afam wrote:The celtics franchise is a without a direction right now.

Your posts are without direction right now
Ernest
Sophomore
Posts: 218
And1: 182
Joined: Jun 16, 2019
 

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#27 » by Ernest » Sat Jul 6, 2019 2:21 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
Afam wrote:A lot people might be afraid to say this, but playing with the celtics helped Danny Ainge get the GM job, Vice president of basketball operations, and now President of basketball operations.

If Danny Ainge never played for the celtics, a great player, a hall of famer, he probably doesn’t get the employed by the celtics. His celtics career helped him with the Kevin Garnett trade. If not because of his celtics ties, a the one championship in 2008, he probably would have been fired a long time ago.


I know you're always gunning for Danny, but you seem to have conveniently forgotten his roles and success with the Suns.


His arguments are just silly. So if Ainge never played for the Celtics he would have both never gotten the GM job and would have also been fired. His comments read like a conspiracy theory. He picks the end result he wants first and then starts bending the truth to get there.
User avatar
sam_I_am
RealGM
Posts: 12,670
And1: 3,996
Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#28 » by sam_I_am » Sat Jul 6, 2019 2:26 pm

Afam wrote:The celtics franchise is a without a direction right now. They are about to lose they only franchise player without a replacement in place. No Jayson Tatum are not stars. No idea on what direction they want to go. Build a championship, Tank/Rebuild, Go with youth movement. You can't do. It is either you are building a championship team, or you are rebuilding. You can't define this as a successful when you didn't have a winning record, or should i say a good record, didn't make any major or minor changes at the trade deadline, in the offseason, and about to lose your only star player in kyrie. It is and has been a complete failure. People or some people in real life, and online can pretend everything is ok, and convince themselves that the youth movement is the right way to go, but they are in for a rude awakening when the celtics are a mediocre team in 8,10 years etc. Boston is not even a free agent destination, so good luck with them attracting stars that way. It should be a free agent destination, but it isn't. The NBA is a stars league. Either you are drafting and developing them, or you are trading or acquiring them through free agency. You are irrelevant or almost irrelevant without having a star on your team.


I couldn’t disagree with a post more completely than this one.

I am going to respond only to your decree that Tatum will never be a star. It’s possible he won’t - but if so it will be because of injury, drugs, or a complete 180 degree decision that he doesn’t care about basketball.

He has undeniable talent and elite shooting ability. He seems to live and breathe basketball and seems to care about little else. If he remains healthy and isn’t a star, it will go down as one of all time wastes of talent in NBA history.

Right now, he is the most exciting young talent in NBA not names Giannis Antekuompo. Nobody drafted this year has a higher ceiling including Zion. Nobody drafted last year has a higher ceiling. Nobody drafted in his draft has a higher ceiling even if Donovan Mitchell is a little better right now. Ben Simmons may be only under 25 player drafted since GA who is more talented but what is the ceiling for 6-10 Rondo? Not as high as Tatum.

Why am I so high on Tatum? He has above average size and athleticism but isn’t freakish by any means. He has pretty good handles for a 6-8 player but nothing super special. His first step isn’t Jordanesque but is very good. His vision needs to get a lot better but it’s showing some improvement. So what makes him special? His shot. He is a splash brother....and a really tall one. He is the next Klay/Curry in that he is a dangerous shooter and a dangerous athlete. There are a decent amount Korver type shooters and Jaylen Brown type athletes in NBA, but very few who can be both.
sam_I_am »2017:Kyrie isn't much of an upgrade over IT and he is **** crazy. Demands to be traded after 3 finals passing on supermax to go to Knicks. More talent around than IT did 2 yrs ago, no playoffs until Lebron came.Kyrie cant hold leads w/o Lebron.
User avatar
ParticleMan
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 13,740
And1: 5,361
Joined: Sep 16, 2004
     

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#29 » by ParticleMan » Sat Jul 6, 2019 3:01 pm

BigTrade92 wrote:He's been here for 16 years and won a single title, based exclusively on a trade his buddy Kevin McHale gifted him.


see, as soon as you say that, i basically ignore everything you say. that is completely idiotic. not only did we offer the best package by a good margin, but other teams have had far more top players "gifted" to them. LA gets gifted players all the time just because it's LA, does that make their GMs great?

we would have won 3 titles if it weren't for KG and Perk with freak injuries. rondo too.

maybe you prefer the previous 20 years when we won 0 titles, because of stupid reactionary and directionless moves?
User avatar
chakdaddy
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,937
And1: 938
Joined: Nov 24, 2006

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#30 » by chakdaddy » Sat Jul 6, 2019 3:22 pm

Now that things have shaken out I'm not mad at anything except passing on Giannis (and DeAndre jordan). I'm happy with a continued measured approach with kemba/Tatum/brown and see what happens. Memphis pick could easily be huge. Trust the process?
User avatar
ermocrate
General Manager
Posts: 9,615
And1: 1,579
Joined: Apr 19, 2001
Location: Angie's Side
Contact:
   

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#31 » by ermocrate » Sat Jul 6, 2019 3:45 pm

As we are seeing right now this has became a “players led” league, I don’t know if this is beneficial or not for the game but that’s it. It all started with Payton and Malone who ditched their hate for the Lakers to win a title and they have been embarrassed, then LBJ and Bosh came, they teamed up with Wade to win and they succeeded at that. KD was the first to join an already winning team to validate himself (after he lose from the same team). This year we got Kahwi and George, the first who wanted to go to the clippers since last year and decided to sign for them despite a win title and a nation at his feet, the second wanted to go to LA since 2 years ago, forced a trade from Indiana, resigned with OKC and then forced again a trade to LAC. You also have LBJ who decided to leave his hometown for LA and that’s fine, then he started recruit everyone until AD forced a trade to LAL. Then you have Kyrie that force di his way out of CLE, then decided he wanted to go to BKN and talked KD into doing the same thing in the middle of the season!

I don’t even mention the nonsense of Al quitting to sign with PHI or Brogdon going to IND...

GMs or great coaching count nothing...
"Negativity in this town sucks"
User avatar
Queequeg
Junior
Posts: 485
And1: 330
Joined: Apr 05, 2013
Location: Staten Island, NY
       

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#32 » by Queequeg » Sat Jul 6, 2019 4:03 pm

captain green wrote:I concur doctor, doctor and doctor.
Bob hope "glad I'm not sick"
Spies like Us... Very underrated

And I completely agree with the assessment. The gun shy theory is always painted with a pretty broad brush.

Sent from my moto x4 using RealGM mobile app
"I'd rather be working for a paycheck than waiting to win the lottery"

-Conner Oberst
celtxman
Starter
Posts: 2,099
And1: 485
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
   

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#33 » by celtxman » Sat Jul 6, 2019 4:45 pm

He was gun shy in not trading Irving, many of us said it then and say it now. When Irving said ask him in July and had his cringeworthy dance with KD at the All Star Game, held up the 2 fingers, that whole speil, it was more than time to cut their losses.
And of course the Rose Rule would have been no problem had Irving signed a short-term contract by the trade deadline and paved the way to get AD. With the physical breakdown of the Warriors we could well have had AD on the roster by the All Star break and a championship. Of course Irving didn't HAVE to sign, just like AD didn't HAVE to waive a trade kicker, or KG didn't HAVE to take a massive cut in his paycheck to re-sign with the Celtics. Everything was right in plain sight to make the right decision, but he was blinded by Irving's talent over his lack of character.
Brad Stevens on fans who want the Celtics to tank: "I don’t think they’ll like me all that much then."
User avatar
KamikazeK
Starter
Posts: 2,378
And1: 2,334
Joined: Nov 17, 2012
   

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#34 » by KamikazeK » Sat Jul 6, 2019 4:46 pm

Gotta agree with Danny on the davis non-trade at this point. If guys are leaving for LA even despite winning it all with the team that they played for the year before then there's no way it's worth the risk. At that point there's nothing you can do. The NBA is in a bad place right now tbh.
Image
User avatar
Jurry
RealGM
Posts: 39,111
And1: 22,589
Joined: Mar 25, 2009
 

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#35 » by Jurry » Sat Jul 6, 2019 5:03 pm

The culture of the NBA has shifted more than a few times since Ainge has been head honcho. It just may be that the way things work now aren't a perfect fit for Ainge's style of GMing. Ainge is a power player and he's used to dealing with other GMs and ownership while players are just pieces but thats not how things work right now. I understand him not wanting to give in and give up a bundle of assets for one of these flighty mfers who make no secret that they are already angling to join forces with their best frans from the day you acquire them. And the real truth about acquiring "talent" in this league is there are less than 5 actual franchise players, then maybe 3 or 4 "potential" franchise players in the league and everyone else is a non-starter as a main guy. Not much point blowing your stack on "stars" or "superstars" when you need franchise piece proven #1 options with postseason pedigree of success to really have a shot otherwise you're just playing mad scientist and hoping it will work. It's a really hard spot to be in for GMs and there is a tremendous amount of luck in getting that elite tier talent on your roster. If it were as easy as trading your best assets for those guys everyone would do it.
"you move on, and focus on other things" - afam
User avatar
BigTrade92
Head Coach
Posts: 7,145
And1: 7,441
Joined: Mar 24, 2011
       

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#36 » by BigTrade92 » Sat Jul 6, 2019 5:40 pm

ParticleMan wrote:
BigTrade92 wrote:He's been here for 16 years and won a single title, based exclusively on a trade his buddy Kevin McHale gifted him.


see, as soon as you say that, i basically ignore everything you say. that is completely idiotic. not only did we offer the best package by a good margin, but other teams have had far more top players "gifted" to them. LA gets gifted players all the time just because it's LA, does that make their GMs great?

we would have won 3 titles if it weren't for KG and Perk with freak injuries. rondo too.

maybe you prefer the previous 20 years when we won 0 titles, because of stupid reactionary and directionless moves?

When ”would’ve, could’ve, should’ve” is your basic premise I basically ignore everything you say. That’s completely idiotic.....

The Lakers had arguably just as good of a package as we did and McHale helped convince KG to give Boston a chance, when Garnett was refusing to waive his No Trade and was dead set on going to LA.

Facts are that Ainge has been here 16 years and won a single title based on one trade his good buddy had a big hand in.

That’s pretty poor especially when you consider the glut of assets held at his disposal, especially recently. I know you Ainge disciples think he can do no wrong, but the world won’t end with a little criticism.

Why quote my month old post if you’ve really got nothing that important to say?
User avatar
OldCeltics
Starter
Posts: 2,267
And1: 2,146
Joined: Jul 05, 2012
   

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#37 » by OldCeltics » Sat Jul 6, 2019 7:25 pm

BillTheGOAT wrote:I often read and hear people say he just hoards assets and doesn't capitalize.

Lets take each situation and deep dive.

Paul George:

Remember, we were in the mix for Hayward and only had one Max FA slot open. We needed to sign Hayward first in order to make a trade for PG. He then got traded for Oladipo, Sabonis and it wasn't because of lack of attempt on Danny's part. Pritchard was in a hurry to get a deal done.
Trade worked out good for both OKC and Indy. We were offering Crowder, Bradley I think at the time but it wasn't Ainge's fault.


Kawhi Leonard:

This one in hindsight hurts. But we had the ultimate goal of getting AD and Celtics fans were torn on Kawhi. While the Raptors had nothing to lose. Worse case scenario for the Raptors was that he would bolt in a year but they get rid of DD ugly contract. We were asked to give up Brown, Smart and picks for a malcontent player and his crazy uncle.
Ainge wants a commitment for giving up players, for someone that would've/could've bolted in a year. There were, and still reports out there that he might go to te Clippers. Of course winning is the ultimate goal but for one year of Kawhi?

Derozan is not that good. Brown had/has upside and is younger cheaper. At least for another year.

It only worked for the Raptors because they were at a dead end. DD as your best player would never take them to the Finals. It also helped them that the Celtics were dysfunctional, Sixers are who they are and Bucks overachieved. KD and Klay both injured etc.. They had all kinds of luck, all time lucky championship run. I still give Ainge a pass knowing they had EXTREME luck.


Kyrie Irving:

Traded IT, Crowder, Zizic and BKN pick which turned into Colin Sexton. Where is IT now? Crowder sucks. For two years of Kyrie. He was a model citizen the first year. Trade was good and proves Danny isn't afraid to make bold moves, no matter what Kyrie does it was a good trade.

Then he turned into a complete bitch this year. The Rose rule also prevented the Celtics from making a trade at the deadline and even then Kyrie had already become a malcontent and this takes us to AD.


Anthony Davis:

His agent blatantly told the Celtics he would leave in 2020. How could you give up Tatum for a guy that would leave in a year? Also Smart would've gone. Williams, 14th pick, Memphis pick and future picks and pick swaps. Lakers gave a huge ransom in future picks and pick swaps.

Once LeBron has that steep decline they will have a hard time to recover. He will turn 35 by the start of next season and is only going to get older. Only upgrade for AD might be moving from NO to LA and getting more endorsements.

Some people still dream about selling a guy on the City of Boston and the banners and the retired numbers blah blah blah. It means nothing once they **** up your brain, they will have tunnel vision.

Ainge has done everything he should've done. Textbook style. Nothing more he could have done really.


All I see is Excuses!!! Some teams take risks to win championships, and some talk about going by the text book while having tangible assets walk away.

I'm happy where the Celtics ended up, but with the assets we had we should have had another Championship by now.
KumaJG
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,814
And1: 881
Joined: Mar 09, 2015
     

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#38 » by KumaJG » Sat Jul 6, 2019 7:58 pm

We been treadmilling for some years now. Seems like we are a team have no direction.
User avatar
ermocrate
General Manager
Posts: 9,615
And1: 1,579
Joined: Apr 19, 2001
Location: Angie's Side
Contact:
   

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#39 » by ermocrate » Sat Jul 6, 2019 8:53 pm

OldCeltics wrote:
BillTheGOAT wrote:I often read and hear people say he just hoards assets and doesn't capitalize.

Lets take each situation and deep dive.

Paul George:

Remember, we were in the mix for Hayward and only had one Max FA slot open. We needed to sign Hayward first in order to make a trade for PG. He then got traded for Oladipo, Sabonis and it wasn't because of lack of attempt on Danny's part. Pritchard was in a hurry to get a deal done.
Trade worked out good for both OKC and Indy. We were offering Crowder, Bradley I think at the time but it wasn't Ainge's fault.


Kawhi Leonard:

This one in hindsight hurts. But we had the ultimate goal of getting AD and Celtics fans were torn on Kawhi. While the Raptors had nothing to lose. Worse case scenario for the Raptors was that he would bolt in a year but they get rid of DD ugly contract. We were asked to give up Brown, Smart and picks for a malcontent player and his crazy uncle.
Ainge wants a commitment for giving up players, for someone that would've/could've bolted in a year. There were, and still reports out there that he might go to te Clippers. Of course winning is the ultimate goal but for one year of Kawhi?

Derozan is not that good. Brown had/has upside and is younger cheaper. At least for another year.

It only worked for the Raptors because they were at a dead end. DD as your best player would never take them to the Finals. It also helped them that the Celtics were dysfunctional, Sixers are who they are and Bucks overachieved. KD and Klay both injured etc.. They had all kinds of luck, all time lucky championship run. I still give Ainge a pass knowing they had EXTREME luck.


Kyrie Irving:

Traded IT, Crowder, Zizic and BKN pick which turned into Colin Sexton. Where is IT now? Crowder sucks. For two years of Kyrie. He was a model citizen the first year. Trade was good and proves Danny isn't afraid to make bold moves, no matter what Kyrie does it was a good trade.

Then he turned into a complete bitch this year. The Rose rule also prevented the Celtics from making a trade at the deadline and even then Kyrie had already become a malcontent and this takes us to AD.


Anthony Davis:

His agent blatantly told the Celtics he would leave in 2020. How could you give up Tatum for a guy that would leave in a year? Also Smart would've gone. Williams, 14th pick, Memphis pick and future picks and pick swaps. Lakers gave a huge ransom in future picks and pick swaps.

Once LeBron has that steep decline they will have a hard time to recover. He will turn 35 by the start of next season and is only going to get older. Only upgrade for AD might be moving from NO to LA and getting more endorsements.

Some people still dream about selling a guy on the City of Boston and the banners and the retired numbers blah blah blah. It means nothing once they **** up your brain, they will have tunnel vision.

Ainge has done everything he should've done. Textbook style. Nothing more he could have done really.


All I see is Excuses!!! Some teams take risks to win championships, and some talk about going by the text book while having tangible assets walk away.

I'm happy where the Celtics ended up, but with the assets we had we should have had another Championship by now.

Not really, with the assets we have we should win a championship in 5 years...
"Negativity in this town sucks"
peachbucket
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,526
And1: 579
Joined: Feb 02, 2005

Re: Danny Ainge is gun shy myth.... 

Post#40 » by peachbucket » Sat Jul 6, 2019 9:19 pm

Afam wrote:A lot people might be afraid to say this, but playing with the celtics helped Danny Ainge get the GM job, Vice president of basketball operations, and now President of basketball operations.

If Danny Ainge never played for the celtics, a great player, a hall of famer, he probably doesn’t get the employed by the celtics. His celtics career helped him with the Kevin Garnett trade. If not because of his celtics ties, a the one championship in 2008, he probably would have been fired a long time ago.


:o :o :o

Despite his limited athleticism, Danny Ainge is the only person in the history of this universe that was a high school all american in three different sports. On top of that Daryl Morey said that Danny was the best negotiator that he has ever seen...and that is coming from someone who deals with some of the best negotiators in the world.

If not the absolute best, he is certainly one of them and anyone that understands anything about the NBA and looks at his moves can see that plain as day. If he was ever fired from his position, which would never happen, he would have dozens of multi million dollar offers to run **** that same day and not just in NBA circles.

Some of you people need to wake up and be thankful for what you have. Winning a championship in todays NBA takes an enormous amount of luck in addition to skill.

Return to Boston Celtics