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Romeo Langford Thread

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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#361 » by Slartibartfast » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:32 pm

Green89 wrote:Jajuan Johnson and James Young had size. If Langford can't score at an NBA level, it won't matter, as the smaller Edwards will get more floor time.


I don't think you are necessarily drawing an equivalence with Romeo and those guys, but it's a fun topic to address so here goes.

JJJ's size wasn't particularly good. He had good PF height and very good wingspan, but he was stick skinny and his standing reach was lacking for a big.

James Young had excellent wing size, yes.

But both of those guys were almost DOA from a skill standpoint with athletic deficiencies as well. JJJ was a college go to post guy who had no prayer of getting the kind of usage he got in college or of handling it efficiently against NBA bigs. He had to convert himself into a pick and pop big and a defense first guy (which he wasn't in college - just a blocks guy who racked up defensive accolades based on box score stats) to make it in the league. And we're talking a 4 year college guy who had to completely remold himself, to unlearn what he'd learned. Athletically, he was mobile, but not particularly fast, and his lack of plus quickness combined with his lack of bulk put him at a disadvantage athletically.

James Young had youth and better size and made a more appealing blank slate as a result, but he was completely unskilled - couldn't handle the ball, had a very small range of shots he was comfortable with and had no floor game. And even moreso than JJJ, he was athletically overmatched, being very slow for the wing position without the bulk to slide down to the 4.

In contrast to both of them, Romeo has the combo of ideal size and good NBA athleticism - he's not a freak by any means, but he has solid lateral quickness and excellent strength. He also has a skill package that is designed for the NBA. He doesn't have to do a JJJ style overhaul of anything except his spot-up jumper. He has comfort using the pick and roll and attacking mismatches, and the ability to score at the rim, in-between and pulling up or stepping back. His solid handle is hugely important - that's one of the more difficult things for wings to add. Adding the ability to read defenses in the spacing of modern offenses is relatively simple once you can handle and score - Beal is a classic example of a mediocre passer who can now do a quality job of reading defenses.

Defensively, Romeo is vastly more advanced than James Young, who was hopeless on ball, and more useful than JJJ, whose frame was insufficient. Romeo has already seen a significant amount of time on #1 options and is pretty solid in most facets of man D. He can move laterally, he can absorb contact and he can contest. Team D/awareness is the missing part of his game, but he's half a good defender already.

The big problem for Romeo is if his deep jumper never improves. His one significant athletic weakness is a lack of explosiveness, which makes it harder for him to beat defenders who don't have to respect his deep J and harder to work without the ball. Without it he risks becoming a Marquis Daniels/Evan Turner type.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#362 » by 3D Chess » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:51 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:Romeo.

As someone who does not watch college ball, really appreciate your analysis, Slart.

Looking forward to seeing Romeo in game action in the near future.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#363 » by ZeroTolerance » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:16 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:The big problem for Romeo is if his deep jumper never improves. His one significant athletic weakness is a lack of explosiveness, which makes it harder for him to beat defenders who don't have to respect his deep J and harder to work without the ball. Without it he risks becoming a Marquis Daniels/Evan Turner type.


Like most here, I've yet to see him play...but I enjoyed your prospective comparisons and opinions...

I'd take an "Evan Turner" I guess, but we can all hope for much more....It will be fun to see his talents unwrapped and see just what we got....I was impressed with summer league and if Romeo Langford turns out to be the best of this year's bunch, it's going to be fun around here.....I really get the feeling that the rookies will all get minutes. and a couple of them will become key players...but I'm more the optimist than most here....So we will see what shakes out...
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#364 » by GoGreen » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:57 pm

Romeo was hurt, wasnt he?

I remember looking up his stats before the injury. It was a small sample size, and I can't remember the amount of games, but regardless, I remember them being better than the rest of his season. His ball def needs work.

I'd like to see what he can do healthy
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#365 » by Slartibartfast » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:51 pm

GoGreen wrote:Romeo was hurt, wasnt he?

I remember looking up his stats before the injury. It was a small sample size, and I can't remember the amount of games, but regardless, I remember them being better than the rest of his season. His ball def needs work.

I'd like to see what he can do healthy


He actually shot horribly to start the year from 3 and the FT line. I think the thumb played some part in his overall percentages, but there are other issues to work out.

Pretty confident he becomes a solid shooter eventually - he has confidence, balance, touch and a pretty good HS track record. His overall scoring profile is similar to Jrue Holiday, a streaky shooter who uses strength, length and craftiness to score from all over the court.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#366 » by GoGreen » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:57 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
GoGreen wrote:Romeo was hurt, wasnt he?

I remember looking up his stats before the injury. It was a small sample size, and I can't remember the amount of games, but regardless, I remember them being better than the rest of his season. His ball def needs work.

I'd like to see what he can do healthy


He actually shot horribly to start the year from 3 and the FT line. I think the thumb played some part in his overall percentages, but there are other issues to work out.

Pretty confident he becomes a solid shooter eventually - he has confidence, balance, touch and a pretty good HS track record. His overall scoring profile is similar to Jrue Holiday, a streaky shooter who uses strength, length and craftiness to score from all over the court.


Yea, it was a typo but meant to say his "3 ball def needs work." I just don't think we got a good look at all of what he can do in college. I'm verryyy interested in what he can be
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#367 » by Elrod is Back » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:19 pm

I think Slart's analysis is on-target. What I would add is this: Romeo was a top 5 player in the country coming out of high school, as were Jaylen and Jayson. A year ago at this time he would have been considered is their same tier as a prospect. Statistically his freshman year was not far from Paul Pierce's, and they have some similarities, not the least of which is the propensity to get to the free throw line.

In at least two interviews Austin Ainge has acknowledged that whether he is a so-so player or an all-star player will come down to his shot, specifically the 3 ball. What makes the Cs optimistic is that he has an unusually sweet touch on the ball around the hoop. They think this, combined with rebuilt shot mechanics, will make him more than functional from international waters. And as Slart says, if this is the case, he becomes a force offensively. Then Romeo drafted at 14 will be a steal. The difference between him and the Js will not necessarily be that great.

One thing seems clear: Romeo is willing to work and be coached. In that regard, he is the polar opposite of James Young, who probably played his most inspired basketball in 11th grade, and never really improved much after that. I sense James Young liked being a star, but didn't really like to compete or like basketball that much.

So I am keeping an open-mind on Romeo. I think he will probably get a lot of time in Maine this year, if only because the Cs are stacked at the wing positions.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#368 » by Elrod is Back » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:20 pm

:banghead: oops. sorry for double post
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#369 » by Red2 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:31 pm

this pick surprised me because it sure seemed like we could have gotten him later. I was pulling for Brandon Clarke. anyhow I'm willing to be proved wrong so I hope ROmeo where art thou turns into a good player for us. Right now this has the feel of a guy who's not going to play this year and then next year there will be a lot of expectations on him. It seems like I've seen this story before. I hope I'm wrong.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#370 » by Slartibartfast » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:53 am

For those bored and curious about Romeo's shooting motion, the ping pong paddle on his off-hand is meant to get rid of the thumb flick, the off-hand thumb push that young shooters use to add extra oomph to the ball on long shots.

Kyrie shoots with the same motion and makes it work, but it adds an element of instability to a lot of guy's shots.

Interesting LaMarcus Aldridge shot with a thumb flick until injuring his thumb, at which point the bandage forced him out of the thumb flick. Here's the link - https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/trail-blazers-lamarcus-aldridge-thumb-injury-shooting-form-stats/p5x419uftt8y1j00kiiacvo6h

Seems to have made him a slightly better jump shooter over the last few years.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#371 » by cloverleaf » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:16 pm

He continues to be the C's pick who worries me the most. I think I'm more confident in Tacko making it at this point than Langford.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#372 » by sam_I_am » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:28 pm

ZeroTolerance wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:The big problem for Romeo is if his deep jumper never improves. His one significant athletic weakness is a lack of explosiveness, which makes it harder for him to beat defenders who don't have to respect his deep J and harder to work without the ball. Without it he risks becoming a Marquis Daniels/Evan Turner type.


Like most here, I've yet to see him play...but I enjoyed your prospective comparisons and opinions...

I'd take an "Evan Turner" I guess, but we can all hope for much more....It will be fun to see his talents unwrapped and see just what we got....I was impressed with summer league and if Romeo Langford turns out to be the best of this year's bunch, it's going to be fun around here.....I really get the feeling that the rookies will all get minutes. and a couple of them will become key players...but I'm more the optimist than most here....So we will see what shakes out...


If the floor for a 14th pick is Marquis Daniels or Evan Turner....then he is going to be better than the other 19 #14 picks taken this century. His versatility and defensive potential gives him a chance to be a solid contributor even if his 3 point shot never materializes and his first step remains average. I can’t wait to see him in training camp because based on the quality of our other 3 picks and the fact that they rated him highest, I am optimistic we got a very good player.

As a bonus, he has been drafted into a situation like Jermaine O’Neal in Portland where he will be forced to develop if he ever hopes to get meaningful minutes. There will be no expectations but he will face fierce competition in practice for 2-3 years.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#373 » by Darth Celtic » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:35 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:For those bored and curious about Romeo's shooting motion, the ping pong paddle on his off-hand is meant to get rid of the thumb flick, the off-hand thumb push that young shooters use to add extra oomph to the ball on long shots.

Kyrie shoots with the same motion and makes it work, but it adds an element of instability to a lot of guy's shots.

Interesting LaMarcus Aldridge shot with a thumb flick until injuring his thumb, at which point the bandage forced him out of the thumb flick. Here's the link - https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/trail-blazers-lamarcus-aldridge-thumb-injury-shooting-form-stats/p5x419uftt8y1j00kiiacvo6h

Seems to have made him a slightly better jump shooter over the last few years.

Also, he's had his own thumb injury and had surgery. Could have caused his poor shooting and a more pronounced thumb flick on long shots missing the strength with the injury.

Even if he can't shoot, he brings more to the game than Fultz can. I think his shot will come.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#374 » by 3D Chess » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:46 pm

cloverleaf wrote:He continues to be the C's pick who worries me the most. I think I'm more confident in Tacko making it at this point than Langford.

You have failed the marshmellow test.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#375 » by Slartibartfast » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:58 pm

cloverleaf wrote:He continues to be the C's pick who worries me the most. I think I'm more confident in Tacko making it at this point than Langford.


What are your worries? As the resident Romeo apologist it's my job to bury your concerns in overwrought analysis.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#376 » by CelticsPride18 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:44 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:He continues to be the C's pick who worries me the most. I think I'm more confident in Tacko making it at this point than Langford.


What are your worries? As the resident Romeo apologist it's my job to bury your concerns in overwrought analysis.


Do you see star potential if he improves his shot???
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#377 » by Homerclease » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:28 pm

3D Chess wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:He continues to be the C's pick who worries me the most. I think I'm more confident in Tacko making it at this point than Langford.

You have failed the marshmellow test.

Unnecessary.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#378 » by cloverleaf » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:50 pm

3D Chess wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:He continues to be the C's pick who worries me the most. I think I'm more confident in Tacko making it at this point than Langford.

You have failed the marshmellow test.


So you're still holding out for Markelle Fultz's big breakthrough? (Of course, he is still just 21.)

I sincerely hope that Romeo is no Markelle.

Meanwhile, the marshmallow test didn't really necessarily mean what it was originally thought to mean: https://qz.com/1295538/the-marshmallow-test-taught-the-world-the-wrong-lesson-about-delayed-gratification/
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#379 » by Slartibartfast » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:15 pm

CelticsPride18 wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:He continues to be the C's pick who worries me the most. I think I'm more confident in Tacko making it at this point than Langford.


What are your worries? As the resident Romeo apologist it's my job to bury your concerns in overwrought analysis.


Do you see star potential if he improves his shot???


Absolutely. Romeo has 2 major barriers to his star potential - shooting and defense - and neither are insurmountable. After those two issues, he's the complete package.

He could theoretically become a DeRozan without improving either his shooting or D significantly (his 2-point jump shooting is already pretty decent and he could follow DeRozan's path with hard work on tightening his handle/improving his court sense, perfecting the art of drawing contact and adding to his post game). But more realistically he'd become a version of Evan Turner with a bit more finishing ability and a bit less playmaking. If he can't match Turner's more well-rounded game, he could fall out of the league entirely like Marshon Brooks and Rashad McCants (wings who could score but not efficiently enough to make up for not being interested in doing anything else).

I really do think his 3 will improve though. He's a very confident shooter. He's already accurate and comfortable in the midrange and he was a much more accurate range shooter in HS. Some of his mechanical issues could prevent him from being elite, but I think he can get to mid-30s fairly quickly and, importantly, that he will be comfortable pulling up off the bounce from very early. Jimmy Butler, Jrue Holiday, Oladipo and Hayward (who forgets how to shoot from deep every other year) are other guys who do/have done great work offensively with similarly streaky Js.

The D is harder to project. The ability is there. The physicality and competitiveness is there. The coachability is there. But he's not a consistently high motor player. I think he will be highly competent on the ball from relatively early but frequently subject to lazy/spacey moments in transition and offball.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#380 » by 3D Chess » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:42 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
3D Chess wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:He continues to be the C's pick who worries me the most. I think I'm more confident in Tacko making it at this point than Langford.

You have failed the marshmellow test.


So you're still holding out for Markelle Fultz's big breakthrough? (Of course, he is still just 21.)

I sincerely hope that Romeo is no Markelle.

Meanwhile, the marshmallow test didn't really necessarily mean what it was originally thought to mean: https://qz.com/1295538/the-marshmallow-test-taught-the-world-the-wrong-lesson-about-delayed-gratification/

So every draftee that works on their shot is Fultz now? Used to be they'd turn into Kawhi.

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