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Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:52 pm
by Bleeding Green
Gomes3PC wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Well, it's "three years away" from Giannis (if you are lucky) vs. one year away from Wayne Selden. Take your pick.

It's three years away for Dragan Bender. One year away for Malcom Brogdon.

Or Bruno Caboclo, or Frank Ntilikina, or Anžejs Pasečņiks, or Thon Maker, or Papagiannis, or Yabu, or Zizic, or Luwawu, or Hezonja, or Exum...the list goes on.

The track record of 1st rd Euros over the last 5 years is pretty terrible. Yes there is Luka and Kristaps in there, but by and large there's been very few guys that have worked out well beyond them. Even a guy like Saric has just been kind of "a guy" when he was deemed as a demigod coming over after his Euro success.

2016 was an especially bad year for euro players, Zizic or Zubac might actually be the best one. I don't think they perform much worse relative to draft position when compared to college players, though. A lot of misses, but not many of these guys were taken in the lottery, and you have late round surprises like Nurkic/Jokic/Gobert/Capela recently. Caboclo was a major, major project and he took a leap last year, I wouldn't give up on him yet. Alen Smailagic this year is a guy I'm really high on, gifted to the Warriors at pick 39. Doumbouya looks like an instant bust to me, Goga nothing special, dunno enough about Samanic, but I was intrigued when he was mocked at like pick 40 six months ago. I know there is a meme that San Antonio hits on all their euro players, but they haven't drafted a good one since Splitter in 2007.

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:29 pm
by Afam
Read on Twitter


“(Langford’s) been in Boston around our training staff, getting his hands stronger and stronger,” Ainge told Robb. “He continues to do a lot of on-court skill work. Still, not quite 100 percent live, but he’s getting a lot of work in and trying to get ready.”

Despite a lack of live play thus far, the Celtics are confident in the 6-foot-6 wing’s talent and potential.

“Romeo has a lot of talent,” Ainge said. “He’s working really hard. With all young players, you never really know when it’s going to click. Whether it’s in training camp, the start of the season, middle of the season or next season, like, it’s all these young guys. Not just Romeo, all of them. You never really know when the opportunity is going to intersect with their development. I believe in Romeo’s future. He’s going to get there and he’s working really hard to achieve it.”

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:34 pm
by Afam
Romeo Langford will play this season on the celtics. He has NBA skills that the team could use. A guard 6"6 who can guard all three positions. Point, Shoot guard, and small forward. If he works on his defense, watch out.

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:43 pm
by Darth Celtic
Curmudgeon wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:I disagree if you think Langford is a better prospect. Should always pick better player over need with lottery picks. Just because Sekou is 6-9 and reminds of Siakam and we would love and need to have the next Siakam.....doesn’t mean he is going to be good. When I watch highlights of Dombouya I see a fast, athletic really tall and long guy who doesn’t know how to play basketball. When I see Langford I see a guy with perfect size and length for his position who is already a complete 2 way player who just needs to fix his shot. Obviously, we have seen neither play against NBA competition .... so who knows what to think until after we do. Nobody talked about Siakam before the draft or even immediately after it and look what he has become.


Doumbouya did reasonably well in French Pro A at AGE 17. He's still only 18 and won't be 19 until December. He was the youngest player in the draft. If Doumbouya were 22 (as Siakam was when he came out in 2016) you would worry about the rough edges in his game. But given where he is in his development as a player, you look at what the finished product could be when Doubouya is 22 years old-- three and a half years from now.

The risk of course is that you have to make a decision whether or not to extend Doumbouya's rookie deal before he is fully formed as a player.

For me, the question is: if Langford fixes his shot and if Doumbouya develops as he should, which one would you rather have?

I'm no draft expert, but looking at your recent history of no names and bad names you wished we'd take, I'll just pick whichever one you don't.

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:22 pm
by Curmudgeon
Like when I told you guys that Tatum was the best player in the 2017 draft? I guess you should have taken Fultz.

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:39 pm
by sam_I_am
Curmudgeon wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:I disagree if you think Langford is a better prospect. Should always pick better player over need with lottery picks. Just because Sekou is 6-9 and reminds of Siakam and we would love and need to have the next Siakam.....doesn’t mean he is going to be good. When I watch highlights of Dombouya I see a fast, athletic really tall and long guy who doesn’t know how to play basketball. When I see Langford I see a guy with perfect size and length for his position who is already a complete 2 way player who just needs to fix his shot. Obviously, we have seen neither play against NBA competition .... so who knows what to think until after we do. Nobody talked about Siakam before the draft or even immediately after it and look what he has become.


Doumbouya did reasonably well in French Pro A at AGE 17. He's still only 18 and won't be 19 until December. He was the youngest player in the draft. If Doumbouya were 22 (as Siakam was when he came out in 2016) you would worry about the rough edges in his game. But given where he is in his development as a player, you look at what the finished product could be when Doubouya is 22 years old-- three and a half years from now.

The risk of course is that you have to make a decision whether or not to extend Doumbouya's rookie deal before he is fully formed as a player.

For me, the question is: if Langford fixes his shot and if Doumbouya develops as he should, which one would you rather have?


I’d say there 10-20% chance Dombouya ends up as good as he can be expected to be .... say 75% as good as Siakam. I think there is 30-40% chance Langford gets a better 3 pt shot and ends up 75% as good as Brandon Roy. If neither gets any better at all I’d say Langford still has a ten year career and Sekou is back in Europe in 4-5 years. Given that, I like Langford pick. Neither moves the needle for this team for 3-4 years either way except via trade. Langford is safer bet and higher chance to be really good. Sekou at ceiling fills a hole this team could really use. I like Langford pick today and can live with it if Sekou ends up better.

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:19 pm
by Slartibartfast
sam_I_am wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:I disagree if you think Langford is a better prospect. Should always pick better player over need with lottery picks. Just because Sekou is 6-9 and reminds of Siakam and we would love and need to have the next Siakam.....doesn’t mean he is going to be good. When I watch highlights of Dombouya I see a fast, athletic really tall and long guy who doesn’t know how to play basketball. When I see Langford I see a guy with perfect size and length for his position who is already a complete 2 way player who just needs to fix his shot. Obviously, we have seen neither play against NBA competition .... so who knows what to think until after we do. Nobody talked about Siakam before the draft or even immediately after it and look what he has become.


Doumbouya did reasonably well in French Pro A at AGE 17. He's still only 18 and won't be 19 until December. He was the youngest player in the draft. If Doumbouya were 22 (as Siakam was when he came out in 2016) you would worry about the rough edges in his game. But given where he is in his development as a player, you look at what the finished product could be when Doubouya is 22 years old-- three and a half years from now.

The risk of course is that you have to make a decision whether or not to extend Doumbouya's rookie deal before he is fully formed as a player.

For me, the question is: if Langford fixes his shot and if Doumbouya develops as he should, which one would you rather have?


I’d say there 10-20% chance Dombouya ends up as good as he can be expected to be .... say 75% as good as Siakam. I think there is 30-40% chance Langford gets a better 3 pt shot and ends up 75% as good as Brandon Roy. If neither gets any better at all I’d say Langford still has a ten year career and Sekou is back in Europe in 4-5 years. Given that, I like Langford pick. Neither moves the needle for this team for 3-4 years either way except via trade. Langford is safer bet and higher chance to be really good. Sekou at ceiling fills a hole this team could really use. I like Langford pick today and can live with it if Sekou ends up better.


The key trait for Langford to justify that Roy comparison moreso than his jumper (his midrange is already pretty good and Roy's 3 was never that big a threat - always a low-volume 3 point shooter who preferred to pull up from ~18 feet) is his handle. He dribbles/slashes a lot like Roy - low to the ground, ambidexterous, use of angles, hesitation, long strides and shoulders to create and maintain separation.

That base is very encouraging, but he's going to have to tighten it up considerably to be in Roy's league as a wing scorer/slasher.

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:33 pm
by Gomes3PC
Roy was a four year guy at UW before he was drafted. Like for like at the same age, I would bet Romeo is further along in his handle. I think he probably doesn't have quite Roy's vision/playmaking, but again, hard to compare a true frosh being asked to run a Big Ten offense to a guy who took four years in college to break out.

Growth and improvement is not a given though, and Roy drastically improved his game in college and then the NBA.

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:39 pm
by sam_I_am
Roy was a top 5 pick and great player before knees gave out. I was just trying to think of a better comp than ET and that’s who I thought was closest in terms of pie in the sky ceiling. Sekou is no Siakam either - he has nowhere near the vision, handle, rebounding, BBIQ and he isn’t even as tall as Paskal.

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2019 12:55 am
by Dogen
Brandon Roy before the knee issues as comp? Heck yes. Similar size and skills although i think Roy was a little older when he left college. Langford could get there and be a 20/5/5 with defense to cover three positions.

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2019 3:47 am
by Slartibartfast
Gomes3PC wrote:Roy was a four year guy at UW before he was drafted. Like for like at the same age, I would bet Romeo is further along in his handle. I think he probably doesn't have quite Roy's vision/playmaking, but again, hard to compare a true frosh being asked to run a Big Ten offense to a guy who took four years in college to break out.

Growth and improvement is not a given though, and Roy drastically improved his game in college and then the NBA.


Yep - that's always the risk. Evan Turner had all the Brandon Roy comps and never added a thing to his game in the pros. Couldn't or wouldn't make the adjustments to be more than the quirky bench piece he was from pretty much day 1.

But I'm betting on him figuring it out. Outside of spot-up shooting and maybe defensive effort level, he doesn't really have to remake his game to become a top-notch pro. Just hone it.

That's why the Roy/Pierce freshman comps seem right to me. The building blocks are all there - size, strength, body control, handle, jumper (at least out to 18 feet), basic passing ability, defensive chops, rebounding ability, intelligence... There's all the makings of a really good player there.

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2019 5:44 am
by LewisnotMiller
Gomes3PC wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Well, it's "three years away" from Giannis (if you are lucky) vs. one year away from Wayne Selden. Take your pick.

It's three years away for Dragan Bender. One year away for Malcom Brogdon.

Or Bruno Caboclo, or Frank Ntilikina, or Anžejs Pasečņiks, or Thon Maker, or Papagiannis, or Yabu, or Zizic, or Luwawu, or Hezonja, or Exum...the list goes on.

The track record of 1st rd Euros over the last 5 years is pretty terrible. Yes there is Luka and Kristaps in there, but by and large there's been very few guys that have worked out well beyond them. Even a guy like Saric has just been kind of "a guy" when he was deemed as a demigod coming over after his Euro success.


If you're counting Exum and Maker as 'Euros' I guess Ben Simmons is too?

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2019 9:02 am
by cloverleaf
Slartibartfast wrote:
Gomes3PC wrote:Roy was a four year guy at UW before he was drafted. Like for like at the same age, I would bet Romeo is further along in his handle. I think he probably doesn't have quite Roy's vision/playmaking, but again, hard to compare a true frosh being asked to run a Big Ten offense to a guy who took four years in college to break out.

Growth and improvement is not a given though, and Roy drastically improved his game in college and then the NBA.


Yep - that's always the risk. Evan Turner had all the Brandon Roy comps and never added a thing to his game in the pros. Couldn't or wouldn't make the adjustments to be more than the quirky bench piece he was from pretty much day 1.

But I'm betting on him figuring it out. Outside of spot-up shooting and maybe defensive effort level, he doesn't really have to remake his game to become a top-notch pro. Just hone it.

That's why the Roy/Pierce freshman comps seem right to me. The building blocks are all there - size, strength, body control, handle, jumper (at least out to 18 feet), basic passing ability, defensive chops, rebounding ability, intelligence... There's all the makings of a really good player there.


Pierce was 2" taller than Langford, which is a real difference in wing land, but yeah, the general all-around game potential is there..

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2019 12:37 pm
by Elrod is Back
If we compare Romeo Langford to Jaylen Brown at the same stage of each of their careers, Romeo holds up pretty well. Their 3 point % in their freshman year was about the same; Romeo is a better free throw shooter and they both got to the line a lot; steals and blocks are unimpressive for both of them;they have similar age, height and wingspan. Jaylen is a more explosive athlete, while Romeo is a better passer and has a better feel for the game. All indications are that Romeo is serious about his craft and is not a knucklehead, like Jaylen. I don't see any reason why Romeo cannot have a similar career.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brownja02.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/romeo-langford-1.html

Right now people are seriously debating whether Jaylen should get a 4 year $100 million extension. He is going to have a long NBA career any way you slice it.

I'd say that suggests Romeo was a solid pick at 14.

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:23 pm
by Darth Celtic
Elrod is Back wrote:If we compare Romeo Langford to Jaylen Brown at the same stage of each of their careers, Romeo holds up pretty well. Their 3 point % in their freshman year was about the same; Romeo is a better free throw shooter and they both got to the line a lot; steals and blocks are unimpressive for both of them;they have similar age, height and wingspan. Jaylen is a more explosive athlete, while Romeo is a better passer and has a better feel for the game. All indications are that Romeo is serious about his craft and is not a knucklehead, like Jaylen. I don't see any reason why Romeo cannot have a similar career.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brownja02.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/romeo-langford-1.html

Right now people are seriously debating whether Jaylen should get a 4 year $100 million extension. He is going to have a long NBA career any way you slice it.

I'd say that suggests Romeo was a solid pick at 14.

What makes you think Jaylen isn't serious about his craft? Is it all his workout videos in the offseason? I don't get that statement.

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2019 1:28 pm
by ParticleMan
Elrod is Back wrote:If we compare Romeo Langford to Jaylen Brown at the same stage of each of their careers, Romeo holds up pretty well. Their 3 point % in their freshman year was about the same; Romeo is a better free throw shooter and they both got to the line a lot; steals and blocks are unimpressive for both of them;they have similar age, height and wingspan. Jaylen is a more explosive athlete, while Romeo is a better passer and has a better feel for the game. All indications are that Romeo is serious about his craft and is not a knucklehead, like Jaylen. I don't see any reason why Romeo cannot have a similar career.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brownja02.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/romeo-langford-1.html

Right now people are seriously debating whether Jaylen should get a 4 year $100 million extension. He is going to have a long NBA career any way you slice it.

I'd say that suggests Romeo was a solid pick at 14.


i agree, but we'll see whether he reaches jaylen's level in 2 years. jaylen has improved phenomenally since his freshman year at cal, where he was kind of a disaster actually (as was the whole team). i don't think anyone projected that he would approach 40% 3pt shooter, he was a guy who supposedly couldn't shoot. his handle and vision still aren't great but if you compare to cal or early in his nba career, it's a huge improvement.

so yea romeo projects similarly given his frosh stats, but not everyone improves like jaylen has. my ideal hope is romeo turns into a legit 2, jaylen moves to the 3 where he is actually better suited, and tatum bulks up and turns into our KD-like 4. with a vet kemba leading the charge and and good rebounding/defending 5, that would be a very GSW-like team.

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2019 3:10 pm
by 3D Chess
Darth Celtic wrote:
Elrod is Back wrote:If we compare Romeo Langford to Jaylen Brown at the same stage of each of their careers, Romeo holds up pretty well. Their 3 point % in their freshman year was about the same; Romeo is a better free throw shooter and they both got to the line a lot; steals and blocks are unimpressive for both of them;they have similar age, height and wingspan. Jaylen is a more explosive athlete, while Romeo is a better passer and has a better feel for the game. All indications are that Romeo is serious about his craft and is not a knucklehead, like Jaylen. I don't see any reason why Romeo cannot have a similar career.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brownja02.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/romeo-langford-1.html

Right now people are seriously debating whether Jaylen should get a 4 year $100 million extension. He is going to have a long NBA career any way you slice it.

I'd say that suggests Romeo was a solid pick at 14.

What makes you think Jaylen isn't serious about his craft? Is it all his workout videos in the offseason? I don't get that statement.

He means that Rameo is serious about his craft and isn't a knucklehead, and that Jaylen is the same way.

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2019 3:10 pm
by sam_I_am
Darth Celtic wrote:
Elrod is Back wrote:If we compare Romeo Langford to Jaylen Brown at the same stage of each of their careers, Romeo holds up pretty well. Their 3 point % in their freshman year was about the same; Romeo is a better free throw shooter and they both got to the line a lot; steals and blocks are unimpressive for both of them;they have similar age, height and wingspan. Jaylen is a more explosive athlete, while Romeo is a better passer and has a better feel for the game. All indications are that Romeo is serious about his craft and is not a knucklehead, like Jaylen. I don't see any reason why Romeo cannot have a similar career.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brownja02.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/romeo-langford-1.html

Right now people are seriously debating whether Jaylen should get a 4 year $100 million extension. He is going to have a long NBA career any way you slice it.

I'd say that suggests Romeo was a solid pick at 14.

What makes you think Jaylen isn't serious about his craft? Is it all his workout videos in the offseason? I don't get that statement.


I think you are misreading. He says, like Jaylen, Romeo is serious and not a knucklehead.

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2019 3:17 pm
by cloverleaf
Afam wrote:
Read on Twitter


“(Langford’s) been in Boston around our training staff, getting his hands stronger and stronger,” Ainge told Robb. “He continues to do a lot of on-court skill work. Still, not quite 100 percent live, but he’s getting a lot of work in and trying to get ready.”

Despite a lack of live play thus far, the Celtics are confident in the 6-foot-6 wing’s talent and potential.

“Romeo has a lot of talent,” Ainge said. “He’s working really hard. With all young players, you never really know when it’s going to click. Whether it’s in training camp, the start of the season, middle of the season or next season, like, it’s all these young guys. Not just Romeo, all of them. You never really know when the opportunity is going to intersect with their development. I believe in Romeo’s future. He’s going to get there and he’s working really hard to achieve it.”


Sure, they'll put him out there a bit, but I would be very surprised if he makes it in the rotation. Very hard for a young player for whom management is talking about not knowing when it will click with his ongoing "skill" (shooting) work and who may not be cleared for contact until a few weeks before camp starts after half a year laid off from play. He probably won't get it defensively, where he needs a lot of work, until next season. But that's okay, he is young and could well still develop into a star. I'll go further, if he doesn't play in the league this year but comes along well, he could be candidate for rookie of the year next season. You never know.

Re: Romeo Langford Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 1, 2019 3:35 pm
by Elrod is Back
Darth Celtic wrote:
Elrod is Back wrote:If we compare Romeo Langford to Jaylen Brown at the same stage of each of their careers, Romeo holds up pretty well. Their 3 point % in their freshman year was about the same; Romeo is a better free throw shooter and they both got to the line a lot; steals and blocks are unimpressive for both of them;they have similar age, height and wingspan. Jaylen is a more explosive athlete, while Romeo is a better passer and has a better feel for the game. All indications are that Romeo is serious about his craft and is not a knucklehead, like Jaylen. I don't see any reason why Romeo cannot have a similar career.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brownja02.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/romeo-langford-1.html

Right now people are seriously debating whether Jaylen should get a 4 year $100 million extension. He is going to have a long NBA career any way you slice it.

I'd say that suggests Romeo was a solid pick at 14.

What makes you think Jaylen isn't serious about his craft? Is it all his workout videos in the offseason? I don't get that statement.

sorry about the confusing wording. I meant, as others suggested, that Jaylen is not a knucklehead.