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Romeo Langford Thread

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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#581 » by grindtime22 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:50 am

SLCceltic wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:hayward is never going to be the same player. if he leaves after this year i wouldn't be upset or surprised. sucks about his ankle but we have to move on.

Missed your 2nd paragraph checking those stats. What makes you think this about GH ?? He has looked great in preseason. Paul George did not begin to play at full strength until second year.
GH should have a big year !


Are people saying that about PG because of 6 games at the end of the year? I know he says that he didn't feel full strength until the 2nd year, but he was still really, really, really good that 1st real year back. He took another step forward the following year, but that 1st year back was arguably the best season of his career to that point. 23/7/4 and he took it up a level in the postseason.

I'm optimistic about Hayward just to get that out there though.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#582 » by ParticleMan » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:06 am

grindtime22 wrote:
SLCceltic wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:hayward is never going to be the same player. if he leaves after this year i wouldn't be upset or surprised. sucks about his ankle but we have to move on.

Missed your 2nd paragraph checking those stats. What makes you think this about GH ?? He has looked great in preseason. Paul George did not begin to play at full strength until second year.
GH should have a big year !


Are people saying that about PG because of 6 games at the end of the year? I know he says that he didn't feel full strength until the 2nd year, but he was still really, really, really good that 1st real year back. He took another step forward the following year, but that 1st year back was arguably the best season of his career to that point. 23/7/4 and he took it up a level in the postseason.

I'm optimistic about Hayward just to get that out there though.


i really hope you guys are right, but i haven't seen the same explosion and quickness that hayward had with utah. while it was never top-shelf, this was actually an important part of his game, and opened up his outside shooting. if after 2 years he hasn't gotten this back, i'm guessing it's not coming back. for a guy who was a borderline all star to begin with, i think it puts him into very good but below AS level.

i mean look at this... i haven't seen this in boston yet:


i absolutely think he can and will be a huge part of our team this year. but longer term? if he opts out, what contract do we offer him? he plays roughly the same position as tatum and brown, although he brings different skills. if i have to give 25m per year to someone, it's not going to be GH at age 31-35 instead of brown and/or tatum. then we've got langford who hopefully will be our SG of the future if all goes well. i like this kid, don't get me wrong, i just think he's got a ways to go to get to brown/tatum level. but he's also much younger.

bottom line i think hayward's days with us are numbered. really sucks about his injury, he would have been amazing without that, but it is what it is.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#583 » by sam_I_am » Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:32 pm

ParticleMan wrote:
grindtime22 wrote:
SLCceltic wrote:Missed your 2nd paragraph checking those stats. What makes you think this about GH ?? He has looked great in preseason. Paul George did not begin to play at full strength until second year.
GH should have a big year !


Are people saying that about PG because of 6 games at the end of the year? I know he says that he didn't feel full strength until the 2nd year, but he was still really, really, really good that 1st real year back. He took another step forward the following year, but that 1st year back was arguably the best season of his career to that point. 23/7/4 and he took it up a level in the postseason.

I'm optimistic about Hayward just to get that out there though.


i really hope you guys are right, but i haven't seen the same explosion and quickness that hayward had with utah. while it was never top-shelf, this was actually an important part of his game, and opened up his outside shooting. if after 2 years he hasn't gotten this back, i'm guessing it's not coming back. for a guy who was a borderline all star to begin with, i think it puts him into very good but below AS level.

i mean look at this... i haven't seen this in boston yet:


i absolutely think he can and will be a huge part of our team this year. but longer term? if he opts out, what contract do we offer him? he plays roughly the same position as tatum and brown, although he brings different skills. if i have to give 25m per year to someone, it's not going to be GH at age 31-35 instead of brown and/or tatum. then we've got langford who hopefully will be our SG of the future if all goes well. i like this kid, don't get me wrong, i just think he's got a ways to go to get to brown/tatum level. but he's also much younger.

bottom line i think hayward's days with us are numbered. really sucks about his injury, he would have been amazing without that, but it is what it is.


Great post. I am very optimistic for Gordon. His NetRtg last year in preseason was -29. This year is +18 which is as good or better than any he had in Utah. Of course teams are different so they probably don’t correlate. However his defensive rating last year was an abysmal 122 and now is about 85 which is good even on this team. Last year’s numbers show what a shell of himself he was at start of year and he did make a lot of progress. This year he is explosive and he has had some dunks that we just didn’t see. I agree they are not at level of the highlights you linked but I won’t exclude the chance of him getting there. He is already just so much better that he was in April.

That said....he still has to be traded. Celtics simply cannot count on him opting in or resigning at discounted rate. Unless he has another down year it would be crazy for him to opt in because a 3+1 deal at age 31 is much easier to get in weak FA year than it will be at age 32. Maybe team is okay letting him walk for nothing and then just paying Tatum and Brown and Kemba. I think he needs to be featured to drive up his value and then traded for a big. Orlando seems to be a great trading partner - they need a playmaker and a shooter and are overloaded with PFs which is a need for us.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#584 » by 24istheLAW » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:34 pm

ParticleMan wrote:i really hope you guys are right, but i haven't seen the same explosion and quickness that hayward had with utah. while it was never top-shelf, this was actually an important part of his game, and opened up his outside shooting. if after 2 years he hasn't gotten this back, i'm guessing it's not coming back. for a guy who was a borderline all star to begin with, i think it puts him into very good but below AS level.

i absolutely think he can and will be a huge part of our team this year. but longer term? if he opts out, what contract do we offer him? he plays roughly the same position as tatum and brown, although he brings different skills. if i have to give 25m per year to someone, it's not going to be GH at age 31-35 instead of brown and/or tatum. then we've got langford who hopefully will be our SG of the future if all goes well. i like this kid, don't get me wrong, i just think he's got a ways to go to get to brown/tatum level. but he's also much younger.

bottom line i think hayward's days with us are numbered. really sucks about his injury, he would have been amazing without that, but it is what it is.


I agree. Waiting for Hayward to turn back into something close to his fringe all-star self is wishcasting at this point. It's a shame but that's where we are.

And frankly I think the fact that Tatum, Brown, and Gordo don't share the floor together well is the elephant in the room that hasn't been addressed yet.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#585 » by 3D Chess » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:48 pm

24istheLAW wrote:And frankly I think the fact that Tatum, Brown, and Gordo don't share the floor together well is the elephant in the room that hasn't been addressed yet.

I think the numbers from last season ended up showing this not to be true. Yeh the early season starting rotation didn't work, but I am pretty sure that 3 man unit put up good splits in the end. I... do not know where to find those numbers.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#586 » by 24istheLAW » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:02 pm

3D Chess wrote:
24istheLAW wrote:And frankly I think the fact that Tatum, Brown, and Gordo don't share the floor together well is the elephant in the room that hasn't been addressed yet.

I think the numbers from last season ended up showing this not to be true. Yeh the early season starting rotation didn't work, but I am pretty sure that 3 man unit put up good splits in the end. I... do not know where to find those numbers.


-Tatum and Hayward were +6.7 together
-Brown, Tatum, and Hayward were +5.8 together
-Brown and Tatum were +4.6 together. The only teammate Tatum did worse with was Rozier
-Hayward and Brown were +3.3 together. The only teammates Hayward did worse with were Morris and Rozier

Thus there's two dilemmas here:
(1) if the Brown-Hayward-Tatum group struggles, at some point you have to consider sacrificing offensive talent to put a real PF in there like Theis or Robert Williams (who is nimble enough to play the 4 if he's making consistent reads), and sitting one of Gordo and Brown
(2) Marcus Smart was arguably your best player last year, and you are benching him
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#587 » by Brett43 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:24 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:I figured there's no chance he could be worse than Jaylen so he's likely going to allow Danny to part with him, but man does he look average at best. 2019 draft might be on par with Danny's 2016 as his worst ever. It's insane how many better players were still on board at every pick. Danny really is a terrible drafter.


Carson Edwards looks pretty amazing so far...
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#588 » by Red2 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:50 pm

wouldn't Langford be better off in Maine to start the season? He's barely played. I don't know how you keep him in BOston to start the season.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#589 » by AKFO » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:56 pm

Red2 wrote:wouldn't Langford be better off in Maine to start the season? He's barely played. I don't know how you keep him in BOston to start the season.

Theoretically he could be the 3rd or 4th person off the bench if we wanted him to be. After Smart and a backup big come in, you're picking from Edwards (who probably can only come in for Kemba), Grant, Wanamaker, Semi, and Javonte. 2-4 of that group will be in the rotation in any given game. I'm hopeful Brad finds a way to sprinkle Romeo in on a regular basis.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#590 » by Slartibartfast » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:17 pm

AKFO wrote:
Red2 wrote:wouldn't Langford be better off in Maine to start the season? He's barely played. I don't know how you keep him in BOston to start the season.

Theoretically he could be the 3rd or 4th person off the bench if we wanted him to be. After Smart and a backup big come in, you're picking from Edwards (who probably can only come in for Kemba), Grant, Wanamaker, Semi, and Javonte. 2-4 of that group will be in the rotation in any given game. I'm hopeful Brad finds a way to sprinkle Romeo in on a regular basis.


Semi was the first wing off the bench in preseason. Unfortunately.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#591 » by Bleeding Green » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:57 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
AKFO wrote:
Red2 wrote:wouldn't Langford be better off in Maine to start the season? He's barely played. I don't know how you keep him in BOston to start the season.

Theoretically he could be the 3rd or 4th person off the bench if we wanted him to be. After Smart and a backup big come in, you're picking from Edwards (who probably can only come in for Kemba), Grant, Wanamaker, Semi, and Javonte. 2-4 of that group will be in the rotation in any given game. I'm hopeful Brad finds a way to sprinkle Romeo in on a regular basis.


Semi was the first wing off the bench in preseason. Unfortunately.

It's a make-or-break year for Semi moreso than anyone else on the roster. He looked terrible, I don't expect a lot of minutes for him in an incredibly crowded wing depth chart. How is he going to get minutes when Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Williams/Langford are all obviously better, even Smart can be a 'wing' if they go with a 3 guard lineup (Walker/Edwards/Smart). Maybe in very specific matchups he can play where you need a really stout wing out there? Either way, I wouldn't read into preseason minutes for players at all. He's shown no ability to hit shots from anywhere on the court, so he's probably out after this season.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#592 » by Slartibartfast » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:47 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
AKFO wrote:Theoretically he could be the 3rd or 4th person off the bench if we wanted him to be. After Smart and a backup big come in, you're picking from Edwards (who probably can only come in for Kemba), Grant, Wanamaker, Semi, and Javonte. 2-4 of that group will be in the rotation in any given game. I'm hopeful Brad finds a way to sprinkle Romeo in on a regular basis.


Semi was the first wing off the bench in preseason. Unfortunately.

It's a make-or-break year for Semi moreso than anyone else on the roster. He looked terrible, I don't expect a lot of minutes for him in an incredibly crowded wing depth chart. How is he going to get minutes when Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Williams/Langford are all obviously better, even Smart can be a 'wing' if they go with a 3 guard lineup (Walker/Edwards/Smart). Maybe in very specific matchups he can play where you need a really stout wing out there? Either way, I wouldn't read into preseason minutes for players at all. He's shown no ability to hit shots from anywhere on the court, so he's probably out after this season.


I think Smart and Kanter have 6th and 7th man on lock. Edwards probably safe at 8th. Semi the only veteran swing bench option Brad has though, which is why I think he got that 9th man spot over Grant in the preseason rotation.

I don't think his leash is that long but I think it's his position to lose.

Hopefully by midseason, Carsen, Romeo and Grant are the 8th/9th/10th men and Semi's gone or on the deep bench
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#593 » by Bleeding Green » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:13 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Semi was the first wing off the bench in preseason. Unfortunately.

It's a make-or-break year for Semi moreso than anyone else on the roster. He looked terrible, I don't expect a lot of minutes for him in an incredibly crowded wing depth chart. How is he going to get minutes when Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Williams/Langford are all obviously better, even Smart can be a 'wing' if they go with a 3 guard lineup (Walker/Edwards/Smart). Maybe in very specific matchups he can play where you need a really stout wing out there? Either way, I wouldn't read into preseason minutes for players at all. He's shown no ability to hit shots from anywhere on the court, so he's probably out after this season.


I think Smart and Kanter have 6th and 7th man on lock. Edwards probably safe at 8th. Semi the only veteran swing bench option Brad has though, which is why I think he got that 9th man spot over Grant in the preseason rotation.

I don't think his leash is that long but I think it's his position to lose.

Hopefully by midseason, Carsen, Romeo and Grant are the 8th/9th/10th men and Semi's gone or on the deep bench

I was mostly concerned about Semi's option year for 20-21 when I said make-or-break. I think it's already broken, but we'll see. I wouldn't use him at all this year based on how he's looked in preseason, except in very specific matchups. Grant Williams is already significantly ahead of Ojeleye for regular season minutes unless Brad is a moron. I wouldn't be surprised if Grant were the team leader in +/- at season's end.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#594 » by Darth Celtic » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:27 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:It's a make-or-break year for Semi moreso than anyone else on the roster. He looked terrible, I don't expect a lot of minutes for him in an incredibly crowded wing depth chart. How is he going to get minutes when Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Williams/Langford are all obviously better, even Smart can be a 'wing' if they go with a 3 guard lineup (Walker/Edwards/Smart). Maybe in very specific matchups he can play where you need a really stout wing out there? Either way, I wouldn't read into preseason minutes for players at all. He's shown no ability to hit shots from anywhere on the court, so he's probably out after this season.


I think Smart and Kanter have 6th and 7th man on lock. Edwards probably safe at 8th. Semi the only veteran swing bench option Brad has though, which is why I think he got that 9th man spot over Grant in the preseason rotation.

I don't think his leash is that long but I think it's his position to lose.

Hopefully by midseason, Carsen, Romeo and Grant are the 8th/9th/10th men and Semi's gone or on the deep bench

I was mostly concerned about Semi's option year for 20-21 when I said make-or-break. I think it's already broken, but we'll see. I wouldn't use him at all this year based on how he's looked in preseason, except in very specific matchups. Grant Williams is already significantly ahead of Ojeleye for regular season minutes unless Brad is a moron. I wouldn't be surprised if Grant were the team leader in +/- at season's end.

He was one of the top 3 off the bench or a starter in every game, and every single time he subbed out of the game, our team got noticeably better. And not by a little. He can't be in the rotation, he has been that bad. If he makes the team, i'm honestly afraid Brad will go to him the first 20 games, failing terribly, then get his "data" and realize it's never going to work and finally bench him.

Kind of like the lineup changes from last year.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#595 » by FakeScreenName123 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:31 pm

its weird how semi's shot has gotten worse over time
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#596 » by Bleeding Green » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:25 am

Darth Celtic wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
I think Smart and Kanter have 6th and 7th man on lock. Edwards probably safe at 8th. Semi the only veteran swing bench option Brad has though, which is why I think he got that 9th man spot over Grant in the preseason rotation.

I don't think his leash is that long but I think it's his position to lose.

Hopefully by midseason, Carsen, Romeo and Grant are the 8th/9th/10th men and Semi's gone or on the deep bench

I was mostly concerned about Semi's option year for 20-21 when I said make-or-break. I think it's already broken, but we'll see. I wouldn't use him at all this year based on how he's looked in preseason, except in very specific matchups. Grant Williams is already significantly ahead of Ojeleye for regular season minutes unless Brad is a moron. I wouldn't be surprised if Grant were the team leader in +/- at season's end.

He was one of the top 3 off the bench or a starter in every game, and every single time he subbed out of the game, our team got noticeably better. And not by a little. He can't be in the rotation, he has been that bad. If he makes the team, i'm honestly afraid Brad will go to him the first 20 games, failing terribly, then get his "data" and realize it's never going to work and finally bench him.

Kind of like the lineup changes from last year.

I'm really down on Semi, but I think it's fair to want to give him a genuine shot at the rotation simply because they need to make a decision on him before the season ends. I mean, he's only a 35+pct 3 pointer away from being a useful, cheap piece. I think if you can have a positive player on his salary, you do as much as you can to make it happen. And if he fails, oh well, can't win em all.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#597 » by Jakeopp » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:03 am

FakeScreenName123 wrote:its weird how semi's shot has gotten worse over time

Too much time in the weight room lol
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#598 » by Red2 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:17 pm

Semij had an awful preseason . He played worse than any of our rookies. He has the body and plays good D but he is hapless on offense and makes too many turnovers
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#599 » by Scarletfire81 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:26 pm

KumaJG wrote:Not enough information to even have an opinion on the dude.


This 1000%. Let's give him a chance, it's way too early to write him off or to assume anything. We may not even know until near the end of the season or next season.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#600 » by 5InOfLouisville » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:48 pm

ParticleMan wrote:
grindtime22 wrote:
SLCceltic wrote:Missed your 2nd paragraph checking those stats. What makes you think this about GH ?? He has looked great in preseason. Paul George did not begin to play at full strength until second year.
GH should have a big year !


Are people saying that about PG because of 6 games at the end of the year? I know he says that he didn't feel full strength until the 2nd year, but he was still really, really, really good that 1st real year back. He took another step forward the following year, but that 1st year back was arguably the best season of his career to that point. 23/7/4 and he took it up a level in the postseason.

I'm optimistic about Hayward just to get that out there though.


i really hope you guys are right, but i haven't seen the same explosion and quickness that hayward had with utah. while it was never top-shelf, this was actually an important part of his game, and opened up his outside shooting. if after 2 years he hasn't gotten this back, i'm guessing it's not coming back. for a guy who was a borderline all star to begin with, i think it puts him into very good but below AS level.

i mean look at this... i haven't seen this in boston yet:


i absolutely think he can and will be a huge part of our team this year. but longer term? if he opts out, what contract do we offer him? he plays roughly the same position as tatum and brown, although he brings different skills. if i have to give 25m per year to someone, it's not going to be GH at age 31-35 instead of brown and/or tatum. then we've got langford who hopefully will be our SG of the future if all goes well. i like this kid, don't get me wrong, i just think he's got a ways to go to get to brown/tatum level. but he's also much younger.

bottom line i think hayward's days with us are numbered. really sucks about his injury, he would have been amazing without that, but it is what it is.


When i watch that vid, im actually encouraged. To me, he looked just about as athletic in the preseason as in the video. Which is to say, moderately athletic by nba standards.

He has a strong frame and a hard first step he uses to put his defender on his heels. IMO, his biggest problem after the injury was mental, in that he didnt trust that hard step, be it to drive or to plant and elevate. He was passive, and that doesnt work on the court. Im sure there was a bit of pain too. Trainers can tell you the pain is not dangerous, but its hard to suppress the biological imperative to avoid it.

Either way, his performance this preseason has me cautiously optimistic, although i dont put a ton of stock in preseason. I think that physically, he looks muchbetter.

One other thing to consider, those jazz teams were built so that gordo could do whatever he wanted, and everyone was there to complement his game. That makes it easier, but i think there is a definite ceiling on a supergordo offense

Hopefully he finds a way to fit in better this year than last. But then, i could say the same about every single player who returned

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