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Romeo Langford Thread

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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#641 » by KumaJG » Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:29 am

jfs1000d wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:When you factor in how behind the 8 ball Langford is.....1 year college, missed SL and most of preseason, injuries all season playing in only 2 GL games...... you have to be hyped to see how well he is doing already. I knew he was a big league talent in the limited minutes we saw in SL but I figured he would be buried behind wing depth all season. However, he is showing that he could be a rotation player already. I think he is ahead of where Jaylen Brown was as a rookie offensively and his defense is NBA ready too. There may not be a role for him when Smart/Hayward return but it’s nice to know the team could call on him if it needed to.


Kid can go to G-League. Play spot minutes. He also gets to practice. At end of the day, he wasn’t selected to help this year’s team. This was a long term drafting.


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I wouldn't send him to the G-League. They play to wreckless over there
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#642 » by Bluewhale » Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:33 am

Langford injuried twice in G-league, so I bet it is a better decision to keep him from G-league.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#643 » by vct33 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:50 pm

When everyone is chanting for Tacko to get in the game, my son and I are on the couch chanting Romeo. We've been chomping at the bit to see this kid. He was ready to get his jersey on draft night. I have high hopes for Romeo. People forget that some very early mock drafts had Romeo near the top of the draft. Even ahead of guys like Zion. He has the tools to be great.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#644 » by GuyClinch » Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:41 am

Well I could see Zion turning out like Oden.. So not sure being worthy of drafted ahead of Zion will be all that special. But he looks pretty good out there. Wish they would throw him a few more passes..
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#645 » by Jingles » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:18 am

GuyClinch wrote:Well I could see Zion turning out like Oden.. So not sure being worthy of drafted ahead of Zion will be all that special. But he looks pretty good out there. Wish they would throw him a few more passes..


I’m almost more impressed that he is performing/staying engaged on D despite being the 4th/5th option on offense and basically being asked to hang in the corner. Good sign imo.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#646 » by Higgs Boston » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:47 am

You don't think he is a bit slow for his size? I think he should be faster taking into account his ball handling is decent, maybe he still isn't in basketball shape after the injuries.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#647 » by sam_I_am » Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:34 am

+19 today and played final minutes with the crew that was -6 which means he was possibly +25 before garbage time. He may have been along for the ride with the +/- generators today but he didn’t drag down the squad and his defense was solid.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#648 » by Jingles » Thu Dec 26, 2019 2:27 pm

Higgs Boston wrote:You don't think he is a bit slow for his size? I think he should be faster taking into account his ball handling is decent, maybe he still isn't in basketball shape after the injuries.


I haven’t sent enough but think he may be a guy who is eventually described as having “sneaky athleticism” because he is more smooth than quick/explosive.

May also be a sign of him just trying to play with patience and not being at a point of just instinctually going.

The injuries are a good point, and really the most important thing will be health for his first full offseason, where you really get to work on stuff. I always think about how Sullinger could never stay in shape or improve because he was always hurt in the summer.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#649 » by 24istheLAW » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:37 pm

Higgs Boston wrote:You don't think he is a bit slow for his size? I think he should be faster taking into account his ball handling is decent, maybe he still isn't in basketball shape after the injuries.


Two things:

(1) He's not a noteworthy run/jump athlete. He's got quick feet laterally, which is really the most important thing on defense. So functionally he's an adequate athlete. And he's got plus strength and length (as evidenced by his elite track record as a finisher) for a 2-guard.

(2) Part of it is his playing style. I think if we get to see him really attack a closeout, he'll look much faster than he does when he's methodically trying to probe the paint and find an angle to the basket or a teammate. Part of why we drafted him 14th overall is because he has an advanced understanding of how to change speeds and handle the ball under control.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#650 » by sam_I_am » Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:57 pm

24istheLAW wrote:
Higgs Boston wrote:You don't think he is a bit slow for his size? I think he should be faster taking into account his ball handling is decent, maybe he still isn't in basketball shape after the injuries.


Two things:

(1) He's not a noteworthy run/jump athlete. He's got quick feet laterally, which is really the most important thing on defense. So functionally he's an adequate athlete. And he's got plus strength and length (as evidenced by his elite track record as a finisher) for a 2-guard.

(2) Part of it is his playing style. I think if we get to see him really attack a closeout, he'll look much faster than he does when he's methodically trying to probe the paint and find an angle to the basket or a teammate. Part of why we drafted him 14th overall is because he has an advanced understanding of how to change speeds and handle the ball under control.


What excites me about him already is that in limited opportunities to attack the rim, he has proven he still gets to the rim and has shown same ability to finish as he did in Maine games. What he does well is translating....his skills and talent are NBA ready and NBA quality. What happens at NBA level if he must take 10-12 shots remains to be seen. I don’t have a good feeling of whether he is just a good role player, whether he can be a reliable starter or if he can live up to the hype he had in high school but I have seen enough to think he has a chance to develop into an above average player.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#651 » by GuyClinch » Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:07 pm

He hasn't looked that slow to me.

I think his blend of length and athleticism is more then enough for the NBA. His length is very good and he was so successful in college and HS that I think in hindsight he will come out the steal of the draft.

He does have a hinky shot - and that's why he fell I think. But you can't argue with his results. He lit it up amazingly in HS and was very respectable in college..

If we compare him to Gordon Hayward who was great in HS - he was recruited much more heavily and rated much higher. This to me makes it likely that the college guys thought he was a better athlete and more of a sure thing then Hayward.
Hayward IMHO still has plenty of athleticism to get his shots and can still finish around the basket some..

So if the guy busts out - it won't be because of athleticism. Ainge really likes the HS superstars..top recruit types. JB was another guy like that - only slipped to 3 because he went to a crappy university basketball wise..
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#652 » by celticfan42487 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:00 am

So now that we've seen him for about 5 games what is our take on Langford.

Was the scouting profile right? What would you add or change on his scouting profile after seeing him in NBA game action :D

Here's a highlight package of him from trash Piston and Hornets team but still nice to have them in one video:



and here's one of his scouting profile



Strengths:
Physical Profile
Shot creation (fantastic finisher at the rim)
Defensive Potential
Upside

Weaknesses:
Off ball value (goes to sleep off ball and isn't even ready to catch it just standing there zoning out on offense when it's not hero ball time)
Shooting consistency (27% from 3 among this, his form will need to be rebuilt)
Decision Maker (hero ball, never passes, complete tunnel vision, ball stopper, relaxed with the ball leading to many turnovers)
Off hand
Relaxed Defender (in general had horrible body language and a bad motor that consistently disappointed scouts about his desire. Without toughness players regularly just went through him straight to the basket with no resistance. Lazily ball watches and leaves his man wide open. Dies on screens. Endless bad habits. Makes the opposite of "winning plays" often.)



So to me it sounded like the big concern for Langford was everything between his ears. He's the anti Jaylen Brown in this regard.

I can see why Stevens started him down in the G league and why he didn't win people over after his injuries and was out paced by Green, Edwards, Waters, ect.

But he's getting minutes now, and the Celtics are far from desperate to where they would give minutes to someone that is not earning them.

He's only hit a 2 3s and is shooting 28% from there right now...which is nearly identical to his college days.

I'm also not good enough to know how he's doing defensively but Stevens wouldn't play him if he wasn't producing there. I've been SHOCKED at how well he's been hitting the floater. At 6'4" with not huge jumps that is terrific and will validate his ability to drive to the rim. If Tatum had that floater in his game he'd be dramatically better than he is right now so it's no small feat and a huge weapon for Langford on drives.

I like that it seems as if Stevens is playing Langford in the same role he played a rookie Jaylen Brown in. To be fair Brown was Steven's first sub off his bench in his first game as a rookie... so obviously Brown impressed Stevens RIGHT AWAY as a rookie and Langford hasn't (injury aside) but forcing him to think as an off ball role player is good. Tatum has his best season as a rookie playing that exact same role and had many of the same weaknesses that Langford's profile has.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#653 » by GuyClinch » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:42 am

celticfan42487 wrote:So now that we've seen him for about 5 games what is our take on Langford.

Was the scouting profile right? What would you add or change on his scouting profile after seeing him in NBA game action :D

Here's a highlight package of him from trash Piston and Hornets team but still nice to have them in one video:



and here's one of his scouting profile






So to me it sounded like the big concern for Langford was everything between his ears. He's the anti Jaylen Brown in this regard.

.


He is not the anti JB on court at all - not even a little.

JB is known to be BOOK SMART - which is entirely unrelated to being a smart basketball player. JB was not a smart basketball player coming into the league and relied mostly on his physical talents. JBs on court decision making was average at best. Being book smart means that he would likely develop it and understand its a problem. But he was not gifted in terms of BBIQ when he came into the league.

Remains to be seen if he ever gets to the Hayward level never mind the Doncic level..
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#654 » by celticfan42487 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:13 am

GuyClinch wrote:
celticfan42487 wrote:So now that we've seen him for about 5 games what is our take on Langford.

Was the scouting profile right? What would you add or change on his scouting profile after seeing him in NBA game action :D

Here's a highlight package of him from trash Piston and Hornets team but still nice to have them in one video:



and here's one of his scouting profile






So to me it sounded like the big concern for Langford was everything between his ears. He's the anti Jaylen Brown in this regard.

.


He is not the anti JB on court at all - not even a little.

JB is known to be BOOK SMART - which is entirely unrelated to being a smart basketball player. JB was not a smart basketball player coming into the league and relied mostly on his physical talents. JBs on court decision making was average at best. Being book smart means that he would likely develop it and understand its a problem. But he was not gifted in terms of BBIQ when he came into the league.

Remains to be seen if he ever gets to the Hayward level never mind the Doncic level..


The scouting report flaw was Langford had a horrible motor, lack of toughness, zoned out like he didn't care he was on the court, and had a lack of fight on the court.

For JB's flaws, one thing he never had as a prospect was a lack of work ethic or desire on the court. He always went all in on the court, and off it in regards to basketball. Trying to not only be a successful professional but also a leader of other basketball players in the union from a young age.

In that way he's the opposite of JB. Who as a rookie again was the first guy off Stevens bench in his first game as a rookie on a 50+ win team full of vets. Not far off from what Langford is dealing with.

JB like Langford did have that knock of a lack of basketball IQ though (JB would also ball watch, and he'd jump at pump fakes but no one ever out manned him when challenged) and both were known as fantastic drivers to the rims with questionable 3 point shots.

---------


All that said, I don't think Stevens would ever play the kid if he wasn't putting the effort in and knew the defense and offense. So I find this encouraging. I guess we'll see if we ever have a healthy roster if he's earned rotational minutes.

But the fact that he's hit a few knock down 3s from catch and shoot... that was his biggest offensive knock. JB and Tatum were also questionable 3 point shooters. Smart was the worst 3 point shooter in the history of the league and still holds that chucking record. And all 3 have developed from 3... Langford showing promise gives me unrealistic hopes he too will develop well from 3.

And in the video we saw some hustle and athleticism plays in those minutes he got against trash teams, the offensive rebound tip. The makeup block after his man got by him.

Again besides the 3 point shot flaw, it seems like we saw positives in all his supposed flaws. Playing all off ball which was the weaknesses main concerned... would he accept a lesser role and stay engage and contribute.

So far, he's starting too. Maybe the G league humbled him a little. Maybe in practice seeing players like Tatum, Brown, and Smart kick his *** and show him how far he is from their level humbled him. Maybe Stevens is just a phenomenal coach. Or maybe he came in and was hampered by the system in college and it was too much for him to give effort when he wasn't doing the heavy lifting on offense who knows... but I found his minutes encouraging... the way he can come off picks and hit that floater is 100% legit and fits in Brad's offense.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#655 » by cloverleaf » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:22 am

I really don't see the JB vs. RL comparison like that at all.

Both of them have come into the league with real lapses of focus on D (though it sounds like Romeo is improving on that quickly), but RL also with much more court awareness, vision, BBIQ and all-around offensive skillset to start with at this level.

JB with the higher level of professed outside interests, but not necessarily with the portfolio to back that up at Romeo's age either. Kudos of course to JB for how he has developed his play over the last three years. From where Romeo's starting, if he makes the same advances he'll be special as an NBA player as well.

With his game, Romeo reminds me a bit of a smaller Paul Pierce. Lots of smooth know-how and finesse on the offensive end, where it looks like he's playing at his own unhurried speed that must have its own sneaky quickness and sneaky strength to get the job done. Neither with the chiseled physique of, say, a JB, to show obvious power for the task at hand.

JB had the potential and minutes with of course elite athleticism early on as a rookie who had been taken 3rd in the draft, but he looked quite upright and stiff at the time, with real limitations in his court awareness and fundamental skills too.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#656 » by Fencer reregistered » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:35 am

Romeo's college highlights showed distressing consistency in that a huge fraction of his shots were only of a couple kinds. His reactive floaters/runners/tips are a nice surprise in light of that.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#657 » by theman » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:08 pm

sam_I_am wrote:+19 today and played final minutes with the crew that was -6 which means he was possibly +25 before garbage time. He may have been along for the ride with the +/- generators today but he didn’t drag down the squad and his defense was solid.


Considering he scored 2 pts I'm not sure that +/- is that meaningful.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#658 » by sam_I_am » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:30 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:So now that we've seen him for about 5 games what is our take on Langford.

Was the scouting profile right? What would you add or change on his scouting profile after seeing him in NBA game action :D

Here's a highlight package of him from trash Piston and Hornets team but still nice to have them in one video:



and here's one of his scouting profile



Strengths:
Physical Profile
Shot creation (fantastic finisher at the rim)
Defensive Potential
Upside

Weaknesses:
Off ball value (goes to sleep off ball and isn't even ready to catch it just standing there zoning out on offense when it's not hero ball time)
Shooting consistency (27% from 3 among this, his form will need to be rebuilt)
Decision Maker (hero ball, never passes, complete tunnel vision, ball stopper, relaxed with the ball leading to many turnovers)
Off hand
Relaxed Defender (in general had horrible body language and a bad motor that consistently disappointed scouts about his desire. Without toughness players regularly just went through him straight to the basket with no resistance. Lazily ball watches and leaves his man wide open. Dies on screens. Endless bad habits. Makes the opposite of "winning plays" often.)



So to me it sounded like the big concern for Langford was everything between his ears. He's the anti Jaylen Brown in this regard.

I can see why Stevens started him down in the G league and why he didn't win people over after his injuries and was out paced by Green, Edwards, Waters, ect.

But he's getting minutes now, and the Celtics are far from desperate to where they would give minutes to someone that is not earning them.

He's only hit a 2 3s and is shooting 28% from there right now...which is nearly identical to his college days.

I'm also not good enough to know how he's doing defensively but Stevens wouldn't play him if he wasn't producing there. I've been SHOCKED at how well he's been hitting the floater. At 6'4" with not huge jumps that is terrific and will validate his ability to drive to the rim. If Tatum had that floater in his game he'd be dramatically better than he is right now so it's no small feat and a huge weapon for Langford on drives.

I like that it seems as if Stevens is playing Langford in the same role he played a rookie Jaylen Brown in. To be fair Brown was Steven's first sub off his bench in his first game as a rookie... so obviously Brown impressed Stevens RIGHT AWAY as a rookie and Langford hasn't (injury aside) but forcing him to think as an off ball role player is good. Tatum has his best season as a rookie playing that exact same role and had many of the same weaknesses that Langford's profile has.


His strengths are impressive. His 6-11 wing span and his Hardenesque scoring ability ( minus the playmaking ) and step backs is not something that can be taught. His weaknesses are all coach-able and correctable. Mainly, he needs to play with greater urgency and remain dialed in when he off ball and he needs to see the whole floor and be able to spot open teammates when he attacks the defense. He needs to prioritize defense and get better but he clearly has the physical requirements to be excellent at that end. Brad has shown the ability to coach up players and it really just comes down to Langford’s desire to get better. Given the talent and culture around him in Boston, he really has no choice to learn to spot his more talented teammates when they are open and if he wants shot opportunities he better become more engaged off the ball. Literally the only weaknesses that aren’t easily correctable given his talent....are the 3 point range, the catch and shoot ability, and playmaking. Some guys never get better but many do and his improvement in his shooting over past 3 games is already encouraging.

I will be shocked if he is not a very good player. I think he is at minimum going to be as good as Kelly Oubre some day with a chance to be special if he can take advantage of the skills he has to become a more complete player and playmaker who can make his teammates better.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#659 » by thomas1897 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:52 pm

Gifted player who can do many things offensively but there are some obstacles. He is on a team with a lot of talented players that are playing his position. So there are some things he can do wait for the opportunities to come his way. Injuries, foul trouble, DNPs or situations when Brad Stevens can not find the right combination of players be ready to bring your A game Romeo.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#660 » by djFan71 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:54 pm

I feel like there are minutes, even with everyone healthy. Starters, Smart, Kanter, RWIII is only 8. Romeo should steal Semi minutes, probably some of Grant's, possibly Wanamaker's. If he earns it, there's time. In fact, it's kind of a key to our season that he does - in a lift our ceiling higher kind of way. Having him as a reliable scoring option off the bench would be super helpful. Then with him, Kemba, Jays, Hayward you can have 3 wing scorers on the court a vast majority of the time.

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