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Romeo Langford Thread

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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#761 » by hugepatsfan » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:36 pm

Sullinger, Semi, etc. all highlight the perceived vs actual weakness of Ainge's drafting.

There's two ways to look at it. If you just go by the picks he's had/used and the production of the player taken, he honestly drafts pretty well. Guys like Semi and Sullinger excite no one but honestly what they did/are doing for where they were taken is a good pick. Guys like Bradley, Rozier, Perkins, Tony Allen weren't all stars but are honestly home runs relative to where they were drafted. Ainge has done very well overall in this sense, IMO.

The other side of it though is the "who he missed on" angle. Semi Ojeleye or Big Baby or Leon Powe is a great pick in the 2nd round. Draymond Green or Jokic are steal of the decade type picks. Perkins or Tony Allen are great picks in the 20s but Jimmy Butler in the 20s is a steal of the decade type pick. Bradley, Rozier, or even Olynyk in the teens are great picks but Kawhi or Giannis in the teens is steal of the decade type picks. You get the point.

So in summary, I think saying Ainge is a bad drafted is unfair. I think he drafts pretty well actually. But at the same time, in almost 20 years now, buying the pick to use on Rondo in the 20s is the one "mega steal" type draft pick he's made. So internally, I hope they are thinking critically about if there's anything in their process that's causing them to miss out. Are they not putting enough emphasis on potential over so called "floor"? And I ask that understanding that if you chase upside you often get downside. But I think as an organization you have to always be thorough and critical in self evaluation. Even acknowledging that your successes could be even bigger successes.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#762 » by 24istheLAW » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:46 pm

vct33 wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
Brett43 wrote:Danny has a good track record with his recent #1 picks that aren't right at the top and I think Langford is no different than the others - Olynyk, Smart, Rozier, Williams, Langford.... Consistently, he's found value. 2012 was his last real miss - Sullinger at 21 and Fab Melo at 22. Interestingly, Fournier was drafted at 20 that year, and Khris Middleton and Draymond Green were still on the board.


Why are you excluding some of his more recent total busts, like Yabu Dabber Doesn't?


I personally can’t look at Yabs & Zizic as misses. There was absolutely no room on the roster for two more 1st rounders. DA had to roll the dice on two stashes and hope that maybe one of them could eventually be an NBA player. If there’s a gripe I have with that draft it’s that he didn’t trade those picks. But that’s easier said than done.


I know that this is a bit of a thread hijack but I'll bite.

Stashes aren't automatically failures. The Euros taken that year from Yabusele on: Zizic, Luwawu-Cabarrot, Korkmaz, Zubac. I don't know if they could have gotten Korkmaz or Zubac to stay overseas for a year. But I don't think it's correct to assume them having to take a Euro at 16 amounts to wasting a pick.

Anyway, I think Zizic was an honest swing-and-miss.

Yabusele? The whole thing made no sense ex ante. You stash the guy in CHINA, where he gets to pretend he's Kevin McHale, playing against a bunch of farmers. How the hell is he going to come back and know how to even set a screen? The notion of stashing a player in Euroleague works because the player is in an ecosystem with great coaching, competing against grown men. Stashing a player in friggin' China, just so you can get them back a year earlier than if you loan them to a real club, was a horrendous and shortsighted strategy from day 1, and never should have happened.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#763 » by hugepatsfan » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:22 pm

24istheLAW wrote:
vct33 wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
Why are you excluding some of his more recent total busts, like Yabu Dabber Doesn't?


I personally can’t look at Yabs & Zizic as misses. There was absolutely no room on the roster for two more 1st rounders. DA had to roll the dice on two stashes and hope that maybe one of them could eventually be an NBA player. If there’s a gripe I have with that draft it’s that he didn’t trade those picks. But that’s easier said than done.


I know that this is a bit of a thread hijack but I'll bite.

Stashes aren't automatically failures. The Euros taken that year from Yabusele on: Zizic, Luwawu-Cabarrot, Korkmaz, Zubac. I don't know if they could have gotten Korkmaz or Zubac to stay overseas for a year. But I don't think it's correct to assume them having to take a Euro at 16 amounts to wasting a pick.

Anyway, I think Zizic was an honest swing-and-miss.

Yabusele? The whole thing made no sense ex ante. You stash the guy in CHINA, where he gets to pretend he's Kevin McHale, playing against a bunch of farmers. How the hell is he going to come back and know how to even set a screen? The notion of stashing a player in Euroleague works because the player is in an ecosystem with great coaching, competing against grown men. Stashing a player in friggin' China, just so you can get them back a year earlier than if you loan them to a real club, was a horrendous and shortsighted strategy from day 1, and never should have happened.


I wonder if it came down to the rookie scale. Higher you go, more money you get. If the guy wants to come play here, you either have to sign him or renounce him. Higher you go, the more money you get. The more money you're getting, the more incentive you have to want to come.

For example, as the #16 pick, Yabu's 2 guaranteed years on his rookie deal were for $2.247M and $2.668M. By comparison, Zizic as a #23 pick got guaranteed years of $1.645 and $1.953M. What if you get hurt overseas and they never want to bring you over? There's some risk. In order to draft and stash you need the player to agree and I wonder if the money at #16 was just more than players were willing to forgo. Yabu could have worked himself a nice little sweetheart deal by being willing to play ball on that in exchange for being overdrafted and getting extra down the line.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#764 » by Bleeding Green » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:26 pm

24istheLAW wrote:
vct33 wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
Why are you excluding some of his more recent total busts, like Yabu Dabber Doesn't?


I personally can’t look at Yabs & Zizic as misses. There was absolutely no room on the roster for two more 1st rounders. DA had to roll the dice on two stashes and hope that maybe one of them could eventually be an NBA player. If there’s a gripe I have with that draft it’s that he didn’t trade those picks. But that’s easier said than done.


I know that this is a bit of a thread hijack but I'll bite.

Stashes aren't automatically failures. The Euros taken that year from Yabusele on: Zizic, Luwawu-Cabarrot, Korkmaz, Zubac. I don't know if they could have gotten Korkmaz or Zubac to stay overseas for a year. But I don't think it's correct to assume them having to take a Euro at 16 amounts to wasting a pick.

Anyway, I think Zizic was an honest swing-and-miss.

Yabusele? The whole thing made no sense ex ante. You stash the guy in CHINA, where he gets to pretend he's Kevin McHale, playing against a bunch of farmers. How the hell is he going to come back and know how to even set a screen? The notion of stashing a player in Euroleague works because the player is in an ecosystem with great coaching, competing against grown men. Stashing a player in friggin' China, just so you can get them back a year earlier than if you loan them to a real club, was a horrendous and shortsighted strategy from day 1, and never should have happened.

The Celtics have absolutely no say in where Yabusele plays if they don't tend him a rookie-scale contract. If he wants to play in China, that's his prerogative. Obviously it was a terrible pick, though.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#765 » by KumaJG » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:02 pm

Romeo offense not up to snuff but his defense is way ahead of the curve
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#766 » by JediMasterRevan » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:10 pm

KumaJG wrote:Romeo offense not up to snuff but his defense is way ahead of the curve



Niche player.

Makes boneheaded defensive plays but stays in it almost 100% of the time.

RIght now I see MKG.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#767 » by BK_2020 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:17 pm

Romeo shooting 100% from the free thrown line this season!!!!!
Larry Bird who can jump basically.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#768 » by sportfan6197 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:17 pm

24istheLAW wrote:
vct33 wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
Why are you excluding some of his more recent total busts, like Yabu Dabber Doesn't?


I personally can’t look at Yabs & Zizic as misses. There was absolutely no room on the roster for two more 1st rounders. DA had to roll the dice on two stashes and hope that maybe one of them could eventually be an NBA player. If there’s a gripe I have with that draft it’s that he didn’t trade those picks. But that’s easier said than done.


I know that this is a bit of a thread hijack but I'll bite.

Stashes aren't automatically failures. The Euros taken that year from Yabusele on: Zizic, Luwawu-Cabarrot, Korkmaz, Zubac. I don't know if they could have gotten Korkmaz or Zubac to stay overseas for a year. But I don't think it's correct to assume them having to take a Euro at 16 amounts to wasting a pick.

Anyway, I think Zizic was an honest swing-and-miss.

Yabusele? The whole thing made no sense ex ante. You stash the guy in CHINA, where he gets to pretend he's Kevin McHale, playing against a bunch of farmers. How the hell is he going to come back and know how to even set a screen? The notion of stashing a player in Euroleague works because the player is in an ecosystem with great coaching, competing against grown men. Stashing a player in friggin' China, just so you can get them back a year earlier than if you loan them to a real club, was a horrendous and shortsighted strategy from day 1, and never should have happened.


I mean Zubac was fine because we got value out of him in that Kyrie deal. probably not the equivalent of a late first, but he was obviously someone they wanted as a prospect.

Yabu was just terrible. i knew there was no market to trade for a future first, but wow, 2-way contracts would have been so much more helpful back then.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#769 » by sportfan6197 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:30 pm

vct33 wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
Brett43 wrote:Danny has a good track record with his recent #1 picks that aren't right at the top and I think Langford is no different than the others - Olynyk, Smart, Rozier, Williams, Langford.... Consistently, he's found value. 2012 was his last real miss - Sullinger at 21 and Fab Melo at 22. Interestingly, Fournier was drafted at 20 that year, and Khris Middleton and Draymond Green were still on the board.


Why are you excluding some of his more recent total busts, like Yabu Dabber Doesn't?


I personally can’t look at Yabs & Zizic as misses. There was absolutely no room on the roster for two more 1st rounders. DA had to roll the dice on two stashes and hope that maybe one of them could eventually be an NBA player. If there’s a gripe I have with that draft it’s that he didn’t trade those picks. But that’s easier said than done.


Not really true. We gave a roster spot to Demetrius Jackson who has picked a full round later. There was absolutely no need to go stash on 2 first round picks.



hugepatsfan wrote:Sullinger, Semi, etc. all highlight the perceived vs actual weakness of Ainge's drafting.

There's two ways to look at it. If you just go by the picks he's had/used and the production of the player taken, he honestly drafts pretty well. Guys like Semi and Sullinger excite no one but honestly what they did/are doing for where they were taken is a good pick. Guys like Bradley, Rozier, Perkins, Tony Allen weren't all stars but are honestly home runs relative to where they were drafted. Ainge has done very well overall in this sense, IMO.

The other side of it though is the "who he missed on" angle. Semi Ojeleye or Big Baby or Leon Powe is a great pick in the 2nd round. Draymond Green or Jokic are steal of the decade type picks. Perkins or Tony Allen are great picks in the 20s but Jimmy Butler in the 20s is a steal of the decade type pick. Bradley, Rozier, or even Olynyk in the teens are great picks but Kawhi or Giannis in the teens is steal of the decade type picks. You get the point.

So in summary, I think saying Ainge is a bad drafted is unfair. I think he drafts pretty well actually. But at the same time, in almost 20 years now, buying the pick to use on Rondo in the 20s is the one "mega steal" type draft pick he's made. So internally, I hope they are thinking critically about if there's anything in their process that's causing them to miss out. Are they not putting enough emphasis on potential over so called "floor"? And I ask that understanding that if you chase upside you often get downside. But I think as an organization you have to always be thorough and critical in self evaluation. Even acknowledging that your successes could be even bigger successes.


Sully was a great pick. We were still trying to win at that time, and Ainge got a guy with an NBA-ready body that could contribute right away that also had a high ceiling. Regardless of Sully's career longevity, he was a great high floor high reward pick in the 20's



That being said, going 5 straight draft where your top pick becomes a top 10 starter at their position is the 3rd most impressive feat of the century following Presti's 3 straight MVP's and Myers 3 all nba players in 4 years.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#770 » by 24istheLAW » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:46 pm

sportfan6197 wrote:
vct33 wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
Why are you excluding some of his more recent total busts, like Yabu Dabber Doesn't?


I personally can’t look at Yabs & Zizic as misses. There was absolutely no room on the roster for two more 1st rounders. DA had to roll the dice on two stashes and hope that maybe one of them could eventually be an NBA player. If there’s a gripe I have with that draft it’s that he didn’t trade those picks. But that’s easier said than done.


Not really true. We gave a roster spot to Demetrius Jackson who has picked a full round later. There was absolutely no need to go stash on 2 first round picks.


Wasn't it the only way they could afford Kevin Durant? I'm admittedly not on top of these cap gymnastics.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#771 » by Homerclease » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:47 pm

sportfan6197 wrote:
vct33 wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
Why are you excluding some of his more recent total busts, like Yabu Dabber Doesn't?


I personally can’t look at Yabs & Zizic as misses. There was absolutely no room on the roster for two more 1st rounders. DA had to roll the dice on two stashes and hope that maybe one of them could eventually be an NBA player. If there’s a gripe I have with that draft it’s that he didn’t trade those picks. But that’s easier said than done.


Not really true. We gave a roster spot to Demetrius Jackson who has picked a full round later. There was absolutely no need to go stash on 2 first round picks.



hugepatsfan wrote:Sullinger, Semi, etc. all highlight the perceived vs actual weakness of Ainge's drafting.

There's two ways to look at it. If you just go by the picks he's had/used and the production of the player taken, he honestly drafts pretty well. Guys like Semi and Sullinger excite no one but honestly what they did/are doing for where they were taken is a good pick. Guys like Bradley, Rozier, Perkins, Tony Allen weren't all stars but are honestly home runs relative to where they were drafted. Ainge has done very well overall in this sense, IMO.

The other side of it though is the "who he missed on" angle. Semi Ojeleye or Big Baby or Leon Powe is a great pick in the 2nd round. Draymond Green or Jokic are steal of the decade type picks. Perkins or Tony Allen are great picks in the 20s but Jimmy Butler in the 20s is a steal of the decade type pick. Bradley, Rozier, or even Olynyk in the teens are great picks but Kawhi or Giannis in the teens is steal of the decade type picks. You get the point.

So in summary, I think saying Ainge is a bad drafted is unfair. I think he drafts pretty well actually. But at the same time, in almost 20 years now, buying the pick to use on Rondo in the 20s is the one "mega steal" type draft pick he's made. So internally, I hope they are thinking critically about if there's anything in their process that's causing them to miss out. Are they not putting enough emphasis on potential over so called "floor"? And I ask that understanding that if you chase upside you often get downside. But I think as an organization you have to always be thorough and critical in self evaluation. Even acknowledging that your successes could be even bigger successes.


Sully was a great pick. We were still trying to win at that time, and Ainge got a guy with an NBA-ready body that could contribute right away that also had a high ceiling. Regardless of Sully's career longevity, he was a great high floor high reward pick in the 20's



That being said, going 5 straight draft where your top pick becomes a top 10 starter at their position is the 3rd most impressive feat of the century following Presti's 3 straight MVP's and Myers 3 all nba players in 4 years.

They took yabu and Zizic because they agreed to be stashed. They couldn’t afford the cap holds on the two first round picks while conserving max cap space for Durant. They were all in on KD that year and blowing the pick on Elrods hero was absolutely a biproduct of that
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#772 » by Captain_Caveman » Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:09 am

This guy sucks.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#773 » by darrendaye » Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:16 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:This guy sucks.


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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#774 » by BostonCouchGM » Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:19 am

I think Danny is undeniably a below average drafter. Unlike so many other Danny draft picks, Langford actually has legit NBA size and length for his position. I can work with that. In a vacuum he makes some sense. The one issue I have with the Langford pick is that we were set 1-3 and badly needed size and skill at the 4-5 so why not take one of the half dozen 4/5 still on the board? The Langford pick was bad but the reason why Danny is such a bad drafter is because he drafted 6'6" PF Williams who is a total zero and Edwards who doesn't even belong on an NBA roster, over several much better players. It's annoying when he does this because it's not necessary imho. Simply take the skilled guy who has actual NBA size/length/athleticism for their position and more times than not, that player will amount to something. Too many times in Danny's past he's failed to do this.

As for the reason why Danny took draft and stash Zizic and Yabuele, it was and remains due to Danny's hubris. He couldn't take players he'd have to keep on the team because that would mean he blew the Young, Mickey (6'8" center) and R.J. Hunter picks. Again, I know people will say it's hard to hit on late picks but he almost never does. Taking Hunter over Osman and Harrell and both him and Mickey over Richaun Holmes is just inexcusable. It's one thing to miss on one guy when you only have one pick, it's entirely different missing on multiple guys when you have multiple picks which he did in 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2019. Or inexplicably trading away the #30 pick when we have so many scrubs on our bench and with a dozen better players than them on the board.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#775 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:06 am

BostonCouchGM wrote:I think Danny is undeniably a below average drafter.


I deny it, as do most knowledgeable and sane observers.

It's hard to come up with a set of metrics that show as "below average" the guy who drafted Tatum, Brown, Smart, Rozier, Olynyk, Jefferson, Rondo, Bradley, Tony Allen, Delonte, Time Lord, Pritchard, Perk, BBD and Powe.

But why are we discussing this in this particular thread?
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#776 » by return2glory » Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:57 am

Instead of showing signs of getting better, Romeo is looking more and more like a wasted pick.

He had managed to score 4 points in his last 3 games as a starter. 2 of those points was a lucky tip in.

Romeo, Nesmith, Grant and Semi are trash. It’s sad.

Pritchard is the only bright spot in the last few years of Danny’s picks.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#777 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:08 am

return2glory wrote:Instead of showing signs of getting better, Romeo is looking more and more like a wasted pick.

He had managed to score 4 points in his last 3 games as a starter. 2 of those points was a lucky tip in.

Romeo, Nesmith, Grant and Semi are trash. It’s sad.

Pritchard is the only bright spot in the last few years of Danny’s picks.


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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#778 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:09 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:This guy sucks.


If he totally forgets how to shoot every time he gets hurt ... well, NBA players get hurt all the time.
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#779 » by Bleeding Green » Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:46 am

Ainge is a bad drafter so he figured, "hey, why not just turn Fultz into Tatum and Langford?"
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Re: Romeo Langford Thread 

Post#780 » by ParticleMan » Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:21 am

since tatum, ainge's drafting has been decidedly subpar.

brad's not doing him any favors tho by requiring every draft pick become a defensive specialist before they can get minutes. i appreciate brad's thinking, but offense matters too. romeo for instance seems to have forgotten how to score.

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