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Grant Williams thread

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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#501 » by CsBsSoxPhins » Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:49 pm

31to6 wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Grant is only 20? He turns 21 later this month.. I didn’t realize he was that young, points to his upside


Only if he’s still growing. But seriously though can he bulk up more or no? Might’ve sort of already maxed out his frame, is there dough there to convert to muscle or is he already low body fat %?

I don't know the specifics but I'm pretty sure he was essentially deemed the strongest player in the combine.
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#502 » by Gomes3PC » Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:00 pm

31to6 wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Grant is only 20? He turns 21 later this month.. I didn’t realize he was that young, points to his upside


Only if he’s still growing. But seriously though can he bulk up more or no? Might’ve sort of already maxed out his frame, is there dough there to convert to muscle or is he already low body fat %?

Absolutely not true. Being young means he just has more skill development curve to go. Yes, his frame continuing to develop can be a benefit, but being young just means he has had less reps and his body is not nearly at its developmental peak. Look at Marcus Smart, for example. He was similarly physically maxed out shortly after coming into the NBA, but over the course of his early 20's, he's dramatically improved his offensive game. He's now an elite P&R playmaker and his shooting has gone from all time bad to being an actual threat as a high volume 3 point shooter.

Grant has a lot of upside still. He is very timid offensively - most of the time he looks like he wants to just set picks and get out of the way. I can understand that, because his shot is not falling and he wants to keep the motion offense going, and frankly it's probably the right thing to do at this stage. With coaching and repetitions, I think he can take a big step forward both as a spot-up shooter and putting a little bit of ballhandling into his repetoire. He's never going to be James Harden with the ball, but against slow centers and PFs, he can definitely learn a couple of decisive moves along the baseline and on the wings to defeat guys closing out on him.

He's already an excellent defender both on and off the ball. He's got good vision and understands what to do out there. His shooting form is solid and he's a super hard worker. All of that points to a kid who with time will be a key contributor to this team. His upside on what that looks like will likely depend on how well his shot comes along and whether he can put the ball on the floor to drive by his guy with regularity.
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#503 » by sam_I_am » Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:04 pm

Green89 wrote:Still 0/16 on threes but the defensive side of his game is solid.


My opinion on this is that very few of his attempts have been where he is set in a preferred spot with a wide open look. He has missed all of those too, but many of his shots have been rushed at end of shot clock or where he Is surprised to be open and then jacking it up awkwardly. The 3 pointers he was hitting in summer league seemed more in the flow of offense. I think the physical demands of the real NBA has thrown him off but I think he can be much better.
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#504 » by grindtime22 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:08 pm

If we get another big lead, we just need to feed him over and over until he hits one. :lol: :lol:

I'm kind of joking, but kind of not.

I think they will start falling when he hits one. It reminds me a lot of Baynes a couple of years ago. He couldn't hit one all season. They wouldn't fall, wouldn't fall, wouldn't fall and then he hit one. Then he hit another one. All of the sudden, that corner 3 was a weapon that carried over into a big factor in the post season.

He can shoot, it just hasn't come together yet. He shot 82% from the free throw line last year and was money from mid range. It is going to happen eventually.
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#505 » by Andrew McCeltic » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:52 pm

He didn’t shoot many threes last year in college - it’s something he’s developing, but unlike with Jared Sullinger, he’s almost a lock to end up with a good perimeter shot.

The question for me is how good he can be as a scorer, not a shooter - he was very good and efficient last year, and showed an IT-esque ability to find daylight against taller defenders. The only thing he doesn’t have going is his wingspan - so he could end up like Kelly Olynyk, who was a great and efficient scorer in his last college season, but didn’t bring it to the NBA in part because of wingspan and athleticism issues. Other similar undersized players - Paul Milsapp, PJ Washington this year, even - who’ve been able to score have plus wingspans. But Grant could just have a knack for it that re-emerges when he adjusts to the NBA, and/or he may be able to develop a perimeter attack.
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#506 » by Theocy » Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:19 am

Those 2 blocks last night were soul crashing. The kid will grow to be a good defensive player. And that's probably all this team needs right now. Considering that we have Kemba and 3 wings all able average C. 20ppg we really don't need much on the offensive end. Marcus + Wana + light touch scoring from Kanter Bob and whoever gets minutes any given night should be enough to cluster us in the good offensive teams group.
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#507 » by LewisnotMiller » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:31 am

Theocy wrote:Those 2 blocks last night were soul crashing. The kid will grow to be a good defensive player. And that's probably all this team needs right now. Considering that we have Kemba and 3 wings all able average C. 20ppg we really don't need much on the offensive end. Marcus + Wana + light touch scoring from Kanter Bob and whoever gets minutes any given night should be enough to cluster us in the good offensive teams group.


Agree, but a working three point shot...even if only for when he's left unguarded...makes a big difference to the OTHER scorers on the floor.

I could care less if he scores 1 pt or 6, but leaving some driving creases is important.

All moving forward. For now, keep working, etc. And, as you say, his defence and versatility at that end are where he's earning his pay cheque.
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#508 » by Fencer reregistered » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:13 am

CsBsSoxPhins wrote:
31to6 wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:Grant is only 20? He turns 21 later this month.. I didn’t realize he was that young, points to his upside


Only if he’s still growing. But seriously though can he bulk up more or no? Might’ve sort of already maxed out his frame, is there dough there to convert to muscle or is he already low body fat %?

I don't know the specifics but I'm pretty sure he was essentially deemed the strongest player in the combine.


I think like in the NFL it's a rep count for bench pressing. The NFL tests how many times you can press 225 pounds in a minute. The NBA uses 185 pounds, I gather, and while I don't know the time limit I'd guess that it's the same.

Grant topped the field his year with 20 reps. Carsen tied for 6th-7th with 14. Tremont Waters managed 5. Most of the top choices, including Zion Williamson, didn't participate.

Semi topped his year's group with 19. Jordan Mickey did 9 reps, Terry Rozier 7, Shane Larkin 12, Phil Pressey 7 -- and Rudy Gobert 7 as well. Kelly Olynyk did 5. Jae Crowder did 20 also, and Ty Zeller 16. Andre Drummond and Draymond Green did 10 each, and the late Fab Melo did 9. Austin Rivers did 1. Kevin Durant famously couldn't do any, although I don't know whether that was at the combine or elsewhere. Enes Kanter did 14 and Isaiah Thomas 13. The Morris twins did 11 each. Kemba did 7, Klay 5, and Kawhi only 3. And I'm ready to stop this. :)

https://stats.nba.com/draft/combine-strength-agility/
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#509 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:11 am

I wish the Grant/Marcus analogies didn't extend to early-career shooting. :(
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#510 » by zoyathedestroya » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:16 pm

Grant has now missed 19 straight threes to start his NBA career. Previous record for most consecutive misses by a rookie was 9.

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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#511 » by SmartWentCrazy » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:29 pm

zoyathedestroya wrote:Grant has now missed 19 straight threes to start his NBA career. Previous record for most consecutive misses by a rookie was 9.

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Ben Simmons missed 11 in his first rookie year. He missed 6 in his second rookie season, likely costing him his second consecutive ROY. He hit one this year, though, so I’m really bullish on him getting the trophy this season.
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#512 » by zoyathedestroya » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:37 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:Grant has now missed 19 straight threes to start his NBA career. Previous record for most consecutive misses by a rookie was 9.

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Ben Simmons missed 11 in his first rookie year. He missed 6 in his second rookie season, likely costing him his second consecutive ROY. He hit one this year, though, so I’m really bullish on him getting the trophy this season.

Right. I messed that up. 14 was the record for a rookie season. By Chris Webber.
Tim Duncan was 2/28 in his 1st 3 seasons.

Conclusion: Grant Williams will at least become a fringe HOFer.
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#513 » by threrf23 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:44 pm

His defense and his passing make him a plus player as is. Personally I would rather see him pick up his rebounding than his three point shooting, there's more to the game than threes and rebounding has long been a bigger void for us. If he can pick up his rebounding, it also makes him a better fit at the Center position, where he'd be replacing guys who can't hit the three as is.

fwiw Dray was a year older as a rookie and started out 4-22 from three.
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#514 » by GuyClinch » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:45 pm

Not this 'doesn't need the 3' crap again. Marcus Smart 2.0 here..

Guys almost every guy in the NBA NEEEDS the 3 ball. It's that simple. Why? Nearly every human being can shoot 3s and 40 percent when open with practice. This is equivalent to shooting 60% from 2. Very few people can do this outside of burly centers or freakish long arm power forwards.

So you learn to shoot 3 balls. Cs are doing the right thing here - and Williams who is way to small to score at a great clip inside needs to shoot the 3. It's that simple. The NBA has figured this **** out - and you will see more and more three balls until the NBA gets smart and moves the line back (and eliminates the corner 3).

Game needs to be adjusted such that the 3 is not always the better shot.. And outside of straight dunks/layups right now it usually is.
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#515 » by flintsky21 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:44 am

Not too worried about his shot. It's not like his mechanics are broken. He's just in a really, really bad funk right now. Each missed 3 adds more pressure to the next attempt, but once he get that first one, I think he'll be fine.
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#516 » by LewisnotMiller » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:46 am

zoyathedestroya wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
zoyathedestroya wrote:Grant has now missed 19 straight threes to start his NBA career. Previous record for most consecutive misses by a rookie was 9.

Image


Ben Simmons missed 11 in his first rookie year. He missed 6 in his second rookie season, likely costing him his second consecutive ROY. He hit one this year, though, so I’m really bullish on him getting the trophy this season.

Right. I messed that up. 14 was the record for a rookie season. By Chris Webber.
Tim Duncan was 2/28 in his 1st 3 seasons.

Conclusion: Grant Williams will at least become a fringe HOFer.


I've been thinking about this. Aron Baynes went 4/28 from three over his first seven regular seasons. As we all know, he then quickly supplanted Ray Allen as the NBA's greatest non-Warrior shooter.

Grant has squeezed 7 seasons of learning into just a dozen games, which proves how smart he is. Leaves him plenty of time to chase down Allen's three point records, unlike Baynes who will probably fall just short due to age.
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#517 » by KevinGamble34 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:56 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:
CsBsSoxPhins wrote:
31to6 wrote:
Only if he’s still growing. But seriously though can he bulk up more or no? Might’ve sort of already maxed out his frame, is there dough there to convert to muscle or is he already low body fat %?

I don't know the specifics but I'm pretty sure he was essentially deemed the strongest player in the combine.


I think like in the NFL it's a rep count for bench pressing. The NFL tests how many times you can press 225 pounds in a minute. The NBA uses 185 pounds, I gather, and while I don't know the time limit I'd guess that it's the same.

https://stats.nba.com/draft/combine-strength-agility/


Nice work, got curious with your link. Looks like the record is 27 reps under 2003-4 season by a Jason Keep - who looks like they never played a game in the NBA. Also my quick scan seemed to notice more 20+ reps in the last decade. Could mean pure strength (or whatever reps measure) is less important in the NBA today*.

* really a long bow based on a scan lol
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#518 » by zoyathedestroya » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:51 pm

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Also, **** the guy who said "**** Thanksgiving."
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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#519 » by zoyathedestroya » Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:29 am

Know more about Grant. This is worth the long read.

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Re: Grant Williams thread 

Post#520 » by return2glory » Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:22 am

He is going to make his first career NBA 3 tomorrow.

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