Do we need a 4?

[djFan71]

Sure, traditional positions are outdated, etc, etc. But, there are teams with 2 tall players. We'll call one the center (5), one the PF (4) strictly for ease of referring to them. Following up on this from the Vuc thread.

Ultimately, I'm not sure I care which 5 we get. Vuc, Adams, Capela. All have pros/cons that kinda wash. They're roughly the same salary range (assuming Vuc starts in the 20s). If asset cost is low, any of them are fine. What really matters to me (and is probably a different thread) is who are we putting next to them? 3 wings? Or do we actually use our wing glut to get a real PF with size and some shooting/playmaking. That will have more bearing on how we play, and develop, than which mid-level center we get.

I would love to trade Jaylen/MEM pick for Isaac and make Tatum a 2/3(/4), with Capela, Adams or Sabonis at the 5.. don’t think it’s possible.

And it’s easy to say “get a real power forward”, but who? For what? For how much?

Agreed. To me the thing is, is Danny even thinking along those lines? Or is he thinking just a center and wings? That's the inflection point. Then we go argue about the details of how to do it. We have the assets to do it if we want to - or Danny's just wrong in what he considers BPA if you can't trade our wings for a PF.

Do you think we need a second big? Or go with 3 wings?

[djFan71]

I would love to trade Jaylen/MEM pick for Isaac

Jaylen/MEM > Isaac in fit and talent. Like, I don't think it's even close. Maybe additional assets to the Celtics that weren't mentioned would be involved?

I actually posted Jaylen/Rozier for Isaac trades before the deadline and got killed for it. I was selling low on Jaylen, etc. I like Isaac, I like Sabonis. Those are the kind of 2nd bigs I want. Yeah, they'll cost a lot, but I think you need them.

[SparringPartner]

I would love to trade Jaylen/MEM pick for Isaac

Jaylen/MEM > Isaac in fit and talent. Like, I don't think it's even close. Maybe additional assets to the Celtics that weren't mentioned would be involved?

I posted Jaylen/Rozier for Isaac trades before the deadline and got killed for it. I was selling low on Jaylen, etc. I like Isaac, I like Sabonis. Those are the kind of 2nd bigs I want. Yeah, they'll cost a lot, but I think you need them.

That MEM pick has such a high perceived value though. I could get on board with a JB for Isaac even though I would be a little apprehensive with Isaac's longterm health compared to JB's. I REALLY like Sabonis so I would be all over that as well.

[Bleeding Green]

I'd go with 5 wings if I could. Give me 5 prime Gordon Haywards and I'll go win 70 games and run everyone off the court in the playoffs. All I want from my big is to protect the rim, be able to switch in PnR and catch lobs.

All the talk lately of Adams is insane to me. He couldn't even stay on the floor in the playoffs when the game matters at the end. Ditto Capela. But that's another topic I guess.

[djFan71]

Jaylen/MEM > Isaac in fit and talent. Like, I don't think it's even close. Maybe additional assets to the Celtics that weren't mentioned would be involved?

I posted Jaylen/Rozier for Isaac trades before the deadline and got killed for it. I was selling low on Jaylen, etc. I like Isaac, I like Sabonis. Those are the kind of 2nd bigs I want. Yeah, they'll cost a lot, but I think you need them.

That MEM pick has such a high perceived value though. I could get on board with a JB for Isaac even though I would be a little apprehensive with Isaac's longterm health compared to JB's. I REALLY like Sabonis so I would be all over that as well.

I'm not sure I'd include MEM either - definitely not yet. I think we see what our roster looks like after the first move (the 5) and go from there. If we get Capela, a Sabonis type with playmaking works better. If Adams, Isaac could work. You'd be gambling on him getting his 3% up a little more.

Seems like the plan is get a 5, resign Rozier. Then hopefully there is a third step of trading redundant guards/wings. But, I wouldn't be shocked to see Danny stop there and just add some depth.

[djFan71]

I'd go with 5 wings if I could. Give me 5 prime Gordon Haywards and I'll go win 70 games and run everyone off the court in the playoffs. All I want from my big is to protect the rim, be able to switch in PnR and catch lobs.

All the talk lately of Adams is insane to me. He couldn't even stay on the floor in the playoffs. Ditto Capela. But that's another topic I guess.

Do you have a big in mind? I thought the same of all 3 we're linked to. They're all meh to me and would help in the regular season but we'd have to hope Timelord could handle the playoffs while they're forced to the bench in a lot of matchups.

The thing I'm looking at with 2 bigs is teams like GSW, TOR, GSW where you have a really skilled big/wing/swing whatever you want to call it (Giannis, KD, Siakam) out there with a more traditional big (Lopez, Looney, Gasol/Ibaka). Even the stretch 4 concept: Mirotic, etc. We have nobody in those roles.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I’d do Jaylen for Sabonis if we could get back Holiday, too..

Isaac is just so plus a defender at the 4, you can put him next to a slower-footed big and you’d be ok - and Tatum is still only a small ball / stretch 4 - he rebounds really well for his weight - but he has a ton of versatility and I wouldn’t put the emphasis on him as a 4 if there’s a better option..

Smart/Tatum/Hayward/Isaac/5

Bring in Russell and Capela..

[zoyathedestroya]

If Grant WIlliams can play, just need a starting center. Adams or Favors is fine by me. But I'm good with starting all three of Brown, Tatum, and Hayward just as long as we can rebound. Start Smart, so we can at least have someone who boxes out bigs.

If we really want a traditional PF, Jamychal Green on a short-term deal. Or maybe even crazy eyes Bobby Portis.

[djFan71]

I’d do Jaylen for Sabonis if we could get back Holiday, too..

Isaac is just so plus a defender at the 4, you can put him next to a slower-footed big and you’d be ok - and Tatum is still only a small ball / stretch 4 - he rebounds really well for his weight - but he has a ton of versatility and I wouldn’t put the emphasis on him as a 4 if there’s a better option..

Smart/Tatum/Hayward/Isaac/5

Bring in Russell and Capela..

Yep, his D is awesome. But, I'd almost not bring in Capela/Dlo at that point. Go Terry and Timelord. Let the wings score and Isaac develop a little. Develop Timelord. Get Ed Davis, Thad Young, Vonleh, Holmes, whoever as big depth since we didn't draft any (except Williams).

Smart/Hayward/Tatum/Isaac/Timelord
Terry/Romeo/Semi/Williams/Davis

I'd roll with that. Lots of potential for growth.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I'd go with 5 wings if I could. Give me 5 prime Gordon Haywards and I'll go win 70 games and run everyone off the court in the playoffs. All I want from my big is to protect the rim, be able to switch in PnR and catch lobs.

All the talk lately of Adams is insane to me. He couldn't even stay on the floor in the playoffs when the game matters at the end. Ditto Capela. But that's another topic I guess.

You’re not going to find a lot of centers who can hit free throws, rebound, protect the rim, switch effectively, and stretch the floor..

Horford didn’t rebound much, he misses easy baskets, you live with it. It’s a question of what your team wants the most and what it’s willing to sacrifice.

[djFan71]

And you have lots of cap still to work trades later.

[darrendaye]

As long as the Bucks are a contender, you're going to need someone to defend Antetokounmpo effectively.

[SparringPartner]

I’d do Jaylen for Sabonis if we could get back Holiday, too..

Isaac is just so plus a defender at the 4, you can put him next to a slower-footed big and you’d be ok - and Tatum is still only a small ball / stretch 4 - he rebounds really well for his weight - but he has a ton of versatility and I wouldn’t put the emphasis on him as a 4 if there’s a better option..

Smart/Tatum/Hayward/Isaac/5

Bring in Russell and Capela..

I remember seeing that Orlando wants to build around Isaac, probably for all the reasons mentioned here, and would more than likely unload Aaron Gordon.

To get Sabonis, I would offer up JB and a future 1st (not MEM) to IND. I just don't see Jaylen being a good fit with Oladipo so probably not happening.

[Bleeding Green]

I'd go with 5 wings if I could. Give me 5 prime Gordon Haywards and I'll go win 70 games and run everyone off the court in the playoffs. All I want from my big is to protect the rim, be able to switch in PnR and catch lobs.

All the talk lately of Adams is insane to me. He couldn't even stay on the floor in the playoffs. Ditto Capela. But that's another topic I guess.

Do you have a big in mind? I thought the same of all 3 we're linked to. They're all meh to me and would help in the regular season but we'd have to hope Timelord could handle the playoffs while they're forced to the bench in a lot of matchups.

The thing I'm looking at with 2 bigs is teams like GSW, TOR, GSW where you have a really skilled big/wing/swing whatever you want to call it (Giannis, KD, Siakam) out there with a more traditional big (Lopez, Looney, Gasol/Ibaka). Even the stretch 4 concept: Mirotic, etc. We have nobody in those roles.

Honestly fine with Theis if he can be retained. Theis, GWilliams, RWilliams. Trade for KAT when he comes available. If this were a team on the verge of a championship and they needed a specific kind of player like Marc Gasol that's cool, go get him. But that doesn't appear to be the case.

[djFan71]

If Grant WIlliams can play, just need a starting center. Adams or Favors is fine by me. But I'm good with starting all three of Brown, Tatum, and Hayward just as long as we can rebound. Start Smart, so we can at least have someone who boxes out bigs.

If we really want a traditional PF, Jamychal Green on a short-term deal. Or maybe even crazy eyes Bobby Portis.

Favors and Portis are decent options.

[Bleeding Green]

I'd go with 5 wings if I could. Give me 5 prime Gordon Haywards and I'll go win 70 games and run everyone off the court in the playoffs. All I want from my big is to protect the rim, be able to switch in PnR and catch lobs.

All the talk lately of Adams is insane to me. He couldn't even stay on the floor in the playoffs when the game matters at the end. Ditto Capela. But that's another topic I guess.

You’re not going to find a lot of centers who can hit free throws, rebound, protect the rim, switch effectively, and stretch the floor..

Horford didn’t rebound much, he misses easy baskets, you live with it. It’s a question of what your team wants the most and what it’s willing to sacrifice.

I agree, that's why I only listed three of those things. I don't need David Robinson. Most important quality in a big is that he doesn't get abused in pick and roll situations. Everything else is gravy as far as I'm concerned. Maybe Rob Williams will be that guy in a couple years. Mitch Robinson is that guy.

[Darth Celtic]

Both are fine, but I'd rather have a combo starting at 4 like a Morris type. But to get the most talent on the floor, Hayward or Tatum will have to be the "4". Regardless of what big we sign. Teams with big 4/5 lineups and we can go 2 bigs too with say Vuc and Timelord at the same time if that all happens.

For sure Randle not longer works. He can't be a 5 with Tatum the 4. Can't. And playing him at 4 with Timelord at 5 takes too much outside shooting off the floor for Brad's offense.

[djFan71]

I'd go with 5 wings if I could. Give me 5 prime Gordon Haywards and I'll go win 70 games and run everyone off the court in the playoffs. All I want from my big is to protect the rim, be able to switch in PnR and catch lobs.

All the talk lately of Adams is insane to me. He couldn't even stay on the floor in the playoffs. Ditto Capela. But that's another topic I guess.

Do you have a big in mind? I thought the same of all 3 we're linked to. They're all meh to me and would help in the regular season but we'd have to hope Timelord could handle the playoffs while they're forced to the bench in a lot of matchups.

The thing I'm looking at with 2 bigs is teams like GSW, TOR, GSW where you have a really skilled big/wing/swing whatever you want to call it (Giannis, KD, Siakam) out there with a more traditional big (Lopez, Looney, Gasol/Ibaka). Even the stretch 4 concept: Mirotic, etc. We have nobody in those roles.

Honestly fine with Theis if he can be retained. Theis, GWilliams, RWilliams. Trade for KAT when he comes available. If this were a team on the verge of a championship and they needed a specific kind of player like Marc Gasol that's cool, go get him. But that doesn't appear to be the case.

Theis is good as 3rd/4th big, good shooter. Good rim runner. Decent D, but not spectactular. I'd keep him around.
I actually wouldn't mind throwing an offer at Looney either. We have a pretty similar situation for him to play in. Obviously, not quite the guard talent, but similar concepts. No idea what his price range will be.

Looney, RWill, GWill, Theis. Doesn't wow you on paper, but could be pretty effective. Wish one of them was a little taller though.

[Andrew McCeltic]

You could also just sign someone like Dedmon to the 5 on a short deal if you want to keep flexibility..

I only trade Jaylen if you’re getting back a young star (Beal, Towns), a better fit at a different position (Isaac), or two upside assets - that’s why I thought Barrett/Ntilikina would be a good deal.

[Andrew McCeltic]

If nothing pans out, and Horford doesn’t get the offer he’s expecting, I would give him 1/38 in a heartbeat