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Let's talk Robert Williams

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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#521 » by Fencer reregistered » Fri Oct 2, 2020 4:48 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:Danny loves 6'9" centers who can't shoot. This goes back for years. The problem with Robert Williams, which predates Danny drafting him, is that he's a knucklehead. You can almost never fix that. As tantalizing as his length and elite athleticism is, he can't grasp team defense. It was a dumb pick then and still is. Some dumb Celtic''s reporters fell in love with him and told you all he was a lottery talent had he come out the previous draft and you all believed them. Then when he "fell" you all rejoiced because you actually trust Danny despite his terrible drafting record. Meanwhile, Danny passed on a legit 7 footer who despite the **** show that are the Knicks, has proven he can be a starting center in this league. It's just one of a dozen bad choices Danny has made on draft night. Danny's hubris might keep Williams on the roster for far longer than he deserves. And that whole time most of you will claim he's some superstar in the making lol.


Williams was projected to go much higher the year he was drafted.

I'm the only person in this forum who actually predicted the Celtics would draft him, and even I incorrectly thought it would take a trade up to do so.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#522 » by JHTruth » Fri Oct 2, 2020 5:49 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
BostonCouchGM wrote:Danny loves 6'9" centers who can't shoot. This goes back for years. The problem with Robert Williams, which predates Danny drafting him, is that he's a knucklehead. You can almost never fix that. As tantalizing as his length and elite athleticism is, he can't grasp team defense. It was a dumb pick then and still is. Some dumb Celtic''s reporters fell in love with him and told you all he was a lottery talent had he come out the previous draft and you all believed them. Then when he "fell" you all rejoiced because you actually trust Danny despite his terrible drafting record. Meanwhile, Danny passed on a legit 7 footer who despite the **** show that are the Knicks, has proven he can be a starting center in this league. It's just one of a dozen bad choices Danny has made on draft night. Danny's hubris might keep Williams on the roster for far longer than he deserves. And that whole time most of you will claim he's some superstar in the making lol.


Williams was projected to go much higher the year he was drafted.

I'm the only person in this forum who actually predicted the Celtics would draft him, and even I incorrectly thought it would take a trade up to do so.


After he was drafted Danny said they wanted him, but they didn't think they could get him, he was out of their range. I believe him too. He was a lottery pick until draft night.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#523 » by captain green » Tue Oct 6, 2020 1:36 am

Out of all 1st round picks he has 3rd lowest ppg, 1st lowest in apg, 1st lowest 3%, rpg is 10th lowest. In fact it appears he hasn't even taken a 3 it's just blank on stats. I remember being really high on spell and giddy when he was falling and we nabbed him. Slow ass development but still can get there if he memorize the damn defense flow chart. Got to really hope he pans out kinda need him too.
We always talk about there’s A-to-Z… really, there’s A-to-G or -E,’” Ainge told Celtics.com of a team’s typical offseason agenda. “This year, there’s definitely A-to-Z.” : danny ainge
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#524 » by Parliament10 » Tue Oct 6, 2020 3:18 am

captain green wrote:Out of all 1st round picks he has 3rd lowest ppg, 1st lowest in apg, 1st lowest 3%, rpg is 10th lowest. In fact it appears he hasn't even taken a 3 it's just blank on stats. I remember being really high on spell and giddy when he was falling and we nabbed him. Slow ass development but still can get there if he memorize the damn defense flow chart. Got to really hope he pans out kinda need him too.

He's been injured a lot. I think that's why his stats are so low.
Let him get into a rhythm, and he should be alright.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#525 » by ConstableGeneva » Tue Oct 6, 2020 3:28 am

I'm not saying he's a foul-prone, turnover-prone, lower-usage, less-scoring Anthony Davis, but...

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:P

These player comparisons from StatHead are often misused/abused by dumdums like me haha.

No, but seriously, he has to stay healthy for a full season, so he doesn't have to play catchup in the regular season. I'd be willing to sacrifice our defense a bit 1st half of the season just to see how much our ceiling is raised with him as the starting center. Realistically, I think he plays 18-20 minutes as backup center.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#526 » by ballup » Tue Oct 6, 2020 2:12 pm

Rob Williams was set back by injuries. That being said, he has a lot to improve. PnR defense and NBA rim protection are those areas. RWill gets lost navigating and he goes for the block rather than walling off the rim. He's going to get better as long he works. The game is fast for rookies and with more experience, he'll catch on. Look at Olynyk's defensive improvement that took his full rookie contract to realize. Heck, it took McGee until his late stint with the Warriors to be a more rounded defender. We have Smart as a mentor and Grant as a peer to cross reference. These things take time.

I truly believe that R Williams can unlock things in the starting lineup. Having an above the rim player as a lob threat opens the sliver of space for drivers to finish. Even though R Will is a non shooter, his passing makes it a non issue. Why is Nurkic great for the Blazer's offense? Because when Dame/CJ hits him on the roll, he can pass out quickly if the help comes.

I can see a 3 man center rotation of Theis starting usually and the Williams splitting the remainder minutes.

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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#527 » by JHTruth » Tue Oct 6, 2020 2:43 pm

ballup wrote:Rob Williams was set back by injuries. That being said, he has a lot to improve. PnR defense and NBA rim protection are those areas. RWill gets lost navigating and he goes for the block rather than walling off the rim. He's going to get better as long he works. The game is fast for rookies and with more experience, he'll catch on. Look at Olynyk's defensive improvement that took his full rookie contract to realize. Heck, it took McGee until his late stint with the Warriors to be a more rounded defender. We have Smart as a mentor and Grant as a peer to cross reference. These things take time.

I truly believe that R Williams can unlock things in the starting lineup. Having an above the rim player as a lob threat opens the sliver of space for drivers to finish. Even though R Will is a non shooter, his passing makes it a non issue. Why is Nurkic great for the Blazer's offense? Because when Dame/CJ hits him on the roll, he can pass out quickly if the help comes.

I can see a 3 man center rotation of Theis starting usually and the Williams splitting the remainder minutes.

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That and he plays for probably the worst developmental coach in the league. Brad hasn't played and developed a non-lottery pick in 7 years outside of the low-ceiling plays-like-a-vet Grant Williams. Part of the reason Danny should trade the picks. Brad won't play or develop them.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#528 » by JHTruth » Tue Oct 6, 2020 3:40 pm

Food for Thought:

2020 Playoffs

Playing with the Line-Up of Kemba-Smart-Brown-Tatum

Rob Will:
OffRtg: 111.8
DefRtg: 103.9
NetRtg: 7.9

Dan Theis
OffRtg: 107.9
DefRtg: 104.3
NetRtg: 3.6
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#529 » by TheMartian » Tue Oct 6, 2020 3:42 pm

Yep. Bobby Timelord is our center of the future.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#530 » by Bleeding Green » Tue Oct 6, 2020 3:43 pm

Outside of all the players who had career years or that have developed in Boston, that's pretty true. Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk, Jared Sullinger, Evan Turner, Jonas Jerebko, Jae Crowder, Tyler Zeller, Terry Rozier, Jordan Crawford, Aron Baynes, Daniel Theis, Semi Ojeleye. If we remove them and then remove Tatum, Brown, Smart Stevens has barely gotten anything out of anyone. This is the guy who couldn't get anything out of Guerschon Yabusele, who is now showing us all how much Stevens **** that up.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#531 » by JHTruth » Tue Oct 6, 2020 3:48 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:Outside of all the players who had career years or that have developed in Boston, that's pretty true. Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk, Jared Sullinger, Evan Turner, Jonas Jerebko, Jae Crowder, Tyler Zeller, Terry Rozier, Jordan Crawford, Aron Baynes, Daniel Theis, Semi Ojeleye. If we remove them and then remove Tatum, Brown, Smart Stevens has barely gotten anything out of anyone. This is the guy who couldn't get anything out of Guerschon Yabusele, who is now showing us all how much Stevens **** that up.


LOL almost all those guys were drafted by someone else, we just plugged them in. Which is exactly my point..
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#532 » by Bleeding Green » Tue Oct 6, 2020 4:41 pm

LOL
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#533 » by ballup » Tue Oct 6, 2020 5:37 pm

JHTruth wrote:
Bleeding Green wrote:Outside of all the players who had career years or that have developed in Boston, that's pretty true. Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk, Jared Sullinger, Evan Turner, Jonas Jerebko, Jae Crowder, Tyler Zeller, Terry Rozier, Jordan Crawford, Aron Baynes, Daniel Theis, Semi Ojeleye. If we remove them and then remove Tatum, Brown, Smart Stevens has barely gotten anything out of anyone. This is the guy who couldn't get anything out of Guerschon Yabusele, who is now showing us all how much Stevens **** that up.


LOL almost all those guys were drafted by someone else, we just plugged them in. Which is exactly my point..


Being drafted by another regime doesn't matter. Development is progress and if Stevens is there during that, credit should be given to him. Players like Bradley were still only 23 when Stevens took over and took off when he did. Are you trying to say Doc should get the credit for AB's improvements ?

Player development is largely on the player than the coach. The coach can put someone in position to succeed, but players are the ones who do the work to improve. Ray Allen once said he hated when people would tell him God blessed him with a sweet jumper. Development isn't something I pin on the coach too much unless it's a strict role player like Ojeleye and even then, it's still player dependant. Say if you tried to make Rob Williams into a point center because he has some passing ability, that would be on the coach.



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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#534 » by BK_2020 » Tue Oct 6, 2020 5:45 pm

JHTruth wrote:That and he plays for probably the worst developmental coach in the league. Brad hasn't played and developed a non-lottery pick in 7 years outside of the low-ceiling plays-like-a-vet Grant Williams. Part of the reason Danny should trade the picks. Brad won't play or develop them.

What high-ceiling non-lotto picks do you think would've become a star in the NBA if it wasn't for Brad Stevens? Gerschon Yabusele? R.J. Hunter? LMAO
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#535 » by Bleeding Green » Tue Oct 6, 2020 5:56 pm

Bro what about James Young or Jordan Mickey? Jabari Bird, Abdel Nader, Ben Bentil and Kadeem Allen? Never gonna forgive Stevens for letting Demetrius Jackson whither away.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#536 » by JHTruth » Tue Oct 6, 2020 6:03 pm

BK_2020 wrote:
JHTruth wrote:That and he plays for probably the worst developmental coach in the league. Brad hasn't played and developed a non-lottery pick in 7 years outside of the low-ceiling plays-like-a-vet Grant Williams. Part of the reason Danny should trade the picks. Brad won't play or develop them.

What high-ceiling non-lotto picks do you think would've become a star in the NBA if it wasn't for Brad Stevens? Gerschon Yabusele? R.J. Hunter? LMAO


Unknown. Almost all prospects are situational based. Very few prospects will be good anywhere they go. It's an organizational strength to identify, draft, and develop non-top 10 talent. Just look at the team that eliminated us.

Bam - 14th
Herro - 13th
Robinson - Undrafted

You either believe in your guys or you don't..
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#537 » by Bleeding Green » Tue Oct 6, 2020 6:04 pm

If you just create bizarre constraints you can create whatever narrative you enjoy. Theis doesn't count as a development win, Wanamaker doesn't count, lottery picks don't count (unless they are Bam or Herro). The Celtics haven't had a draft pick between 6-16 in 20 years (until Langford this year). So you can't count the guys above that (1-6) and the guy drafted at 16 doesn't count (Rozier) and then the second round picks have largely not been great.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#538 » by JHTruth » Tue Oct 6, 2020 6:07 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:If you just create bizarre constraints you can create whatever narrative you enjoy. Theis doesn't count, Wanamaker doesn't count, lottery picks don't count (unless they are Bam or Herro).


Theis and Wanamaker count I guess. But the were both in their primes when they even showed up on our door. It's not like Brad molded them.

Why not just trade the picks for euro role players?
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#539 » by Bleeding Green » Tue Oct 6, 2020 6:09 pm

Who has Stevens failed on by these insane requirements, though? It's all crappy players that have never done anything outside of Boston. If you want to pin that on the coach, I guess go for it. I think you're 100 pct wrong but can't really prove it.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#540 » by JHTruth » Tue Oct 6, 2020 6:11 pm

Bottom line, to get back to the thread, Robert Williams needs more minutes. A lot more.

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