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Let's talk Robert Williams

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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#541 » by Bleeding Green » Tue Oct 6, 2020 6:12 pm

I'm sure once he can prove healthy for 5 games in a row he will, as evidenced by his getting more minutes in the playoffs than Kanter.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#542 » by ballup » Tue Oct 6, 2020 6:44 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:I'm sure once he can prove healthy for 5 games in a row he will, as evidenced by his getting more minutes in the playoffs than Kanter.
He should get minutes but at the same time, he has to learn the NBA basics of defense. Jaylen was pulled whenever he made bone headed defensive mistakes early in his career. I'm not saying this method is always effective, but it stresses to the young guys what they can't get away with. That's part of the reason Grant gets first nod more often.

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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#543 » by ballup » Tue Oct 6, 2020 6:52 pm

Unrelated note:

He doesn't like the Timelord nickname, but it's better than his other one, Boo Butt.

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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#544 » by ConstableGeneva » Tue Oct 6, 2020 6:54 pm

Players that had their best NBA years under Stevens (25-yo-and-under during first stint in Boston) and where they are now:
• Phil Pressey - out of league
• Kelly Olynyk - Miami (26 yo when he signed with Heat)
• Vitor Faverani - out of league
• Chris Babb - out of league
• Jared Sullinger - out of league
• Avery Bradley - Lakers (26 yo when traded to Pistons)
• Jordan Crawford - out of league
• James Young - out of league
• RJ Hunter - out of league
• Marcus Smart - starter in recent ECF run
• Tyler Zeller - Spurs cheerleader
• Jae Crowder - Heat (27 yo when traded to Cavs)
• Jaylen Brown - starter in recent ECF run
• Guerschon Yabusele - out of league
• Daniel Theis - starter in recent ECF run
• Jayson Tatum - starter in recent ECF run
• Semi Ojeleye - rotation player in recent ECF run
• Robert Williams - rotation player in recent ECF run
• All the 2019 rookies - TBD

I didn't include IT, who was 5th in MVP voting his last season in Boston. He just turned 26 when he was traded from Phoenix. Or Terry Rozier, who we developed but had to play behind IT and Kyrie in his time with Boston. He was already 25 when traded to Charlotte. Or Kyrie Irving, who had his only All-NBA 2nd team nod in his time with Boston but was already "developed" and accomplished when he was traded from Cavs at age 25.

Exceptions who are still in the league:
• Dwight Powell - traded to Dallas
• Abdel Nader - traded to OKC
• PJ Dozier - rotation player in Nuggets WCF run
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#545 » by Parliament10 » Tue Oct 6, 2020 7:02 pm

Bleeding Green wrote:If you just create bizarre constraints you can create whatever narrative you enjoy. Theis doesn't count as a development win, Wanamaker doesn't count, lottery picks don't count (unless they are Bam or Herro). The Celtics haven't had a draft pick between 6-16 in 20 years (until Langford this year). So you can't count the guys above that (1-6) and the guy drafted at 16 doesn't count (Rozier) and then the second round picks have largely not been great.

Smart's a #6 pick.
He's doing pretty well.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#546 » by Parliament10 » Tue Oct 6, 2020 7:04 pm

ballup wrote:Unrelated note:

He doesn't like the Timelord nickname, but it's better than his other one, Boo Butt.

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Abby Chin did an interview with him recently, and he said that he'll take the "Timelord" moniker.

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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#547 » by ballup » Tue Oct 6, 2020 7:21 pm

Parliament10 wrote:
ballup wrote:Unrelated note:

He doesn't like the Timelord nickname, but it's better than his other one, Boo Butt.

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Abby Chin did an interview with him recently, and he said that he'll take the "Timelord" moniker.

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Ah. I mostly get my news from the grapevine so I must have missed that.

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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#548 » by ConstableGeneva » Tue Oct 6, 2020 7:36 pm

ballup wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:
ballup wrote:Unrelated note:

He doesn't like the Timelord nickname, but it's better than his other one, Boo Butt.

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Abby Chin did an interview with him recently, and he said that he'll take the "Timelord" moniker.

Image


Ah. I mostly get my news from the grapevine so I must have missed that.

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It's more "he's stuck with it" than him actually liking the nickname. Hey at least it could earn him a possible endorsement deal from Tissot.

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/09/01/timelord-nickname-robert-williams-watch-sponsorship-celtics-nba/
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#549 » by Gomes3PC » Tue Oct 6, 2020 7:49 pm

Playoff role aside, Robert made real, meaningful strides this year despite missing time and having a weird COVID layoff. He upped his per-36 figures in points, rebounds, assists, and steals despite increasing his minutes per game. His FT% also ticked up a bit, which would be great to see get above 70% so he's not a "hack-a" candidate. I also felt he just generally screwed up rotations, etc. less when I watched.

The next, natural progression is that (A) he stays healthy for most of a full season (65-70+ games) and (B) he expands his role to ~20 MPG. The role is there for him, he just needs health and a bit of trust-building with Stevens.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#550 » by djFan71 » Tue Oct 6, 2020 7:54 pm

I wanted him as token starter from day 1 this year. Get that 5ish minutes start of each half and play with the guys who know what they're doing. Obviously health got in the way some, and establishing chemistry with Theis & the rest of the starters was important, you don't want horrible starts each game, etc.

But, I still want the same thing next year. And hopefully he progresses enough that his minutes expand beyond token ones.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#551 » by ConstableGeneva » Tue Oct 6, 2020 8:13 pm

It was like squeezing lemon juice out of hardened poop for some of the young guys that passed through Brad Stevens' program. If they were any good to begin with, why are they out of the league now? Why haven't the other teams taken a chance on them and made something better out of them?

And among those that aren't out of the league from the list above, Brad was able to maximize their limited skills or hide their flaws to become passable to really good rotation players in ECF squads -- AB, Jae, KO, Rozier, Zeller, Theis. Someone may take a flyer on Semi and get lucky he turns into something better. Just take Marcus Smart, for example... of all the 1st round picks taken in 2014, only Smart, Embiid, Aaron Gordon, and Gary Harris are the ones that remain on the team that drafted them. And maybe among the top 3 that grew their game the most. Can't even begin to speak about the leaps taken by Tatum and Brown last season.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#552 » by Gomes3PC » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:12 am

Brad has been pretty conservative in rookie years for most guys:

Smart - 27 MPG on a bad team
Rozier - 8 MPG
Jaylen - 17(!) MPG
Tatum - 31 MPG
Timelord - 9 MPG
Romeo - 12 MPG
Grant - 15 MPG

It's encouraging Grant was already getting 15 MPG as a 21 year old rookie. With a good off-season and progression of his offensive game, I can easily see him jump to 20-25 MPG, maybe more if they move Hayward. Same for Timelord. 20 MPG should be a no brainer for him with reasonable health and improvement.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#553 » by jfs1000d » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:20 am

Candidate to start, needs a lot more work on positioning. Great skills, needs to anticipate more and react less.


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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#554 » by Parliament10 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:30 am

jfs1000d wrote:Candidate to start, needs a lot more work on positioning. Great skills, needs to anticipate more and react less.


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Definitely needs to react less. Jumps at too much.
Agree on positioning, as well.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#555 » by Ernest » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:17 am

Well his D is getting better. He used to jump at almost every fake. He barely did that in the playoffs.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#556 » by darrendaye » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:04 pm

Really intrigued to see where he is next year. I'm curious what type of development he shows in terms of his physique, shooting, and ball handling. I've gotten some flack in this thread as I, admittedly, have focused on areas where improvement is needed. But no one on the board was more excited on draft night when we drafted him.

Either in this thread or in game threads one poster kept suggesting Williams was "scared" when he got the ball. This certainly is far from the truth. One of the things I love about the guy is his passing vision/anticipation. Team needs more guys willing to "pop" the ball. Not only does he make quick decisions, he also puts power on his passes. When it's time for touch, he has it, but passes around the perimeter aren't loopy.

In time, I'm confident he will look to drive. That's the one area I think was most compromised by missing so much time. He showed flashes last year. As someone else mentioned, he showed good touch on free throws this year (as well as some jumpers).

Defensively and rebounding, still a mixed bag, but pros outweigh the cons there on most nights. Let's see if that continues to improve. Lots to love though.
Of the things I like about Robert Williams, my favorite thing is that he spreads his arms when he retreats on defense.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#557 » by captain green » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:16 pm

It isn't his physical stuff he needs to work on it's the mental part dude just need to be in the books about defensive positioning as long as he doesn't get that you'll see he doesn't get the minutes. It's all iq and I really hope he gets it but I don't think he will unfortunately so stoked he fell but now we know why. Unhealable injury and low understanding of spacing and help defense, put him for 15 minutes next year see how many games he can actually play.
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#558 » by ConstableGeneva » Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:49 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#559 » by theman » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:17 pm

ConstableGeneva wrote:It was like squeezing lemon juice out of hardened poop for some of the young guys that passed through Brad Stevens' program. If they were any good to begin with, why are they out of the league now? Why haven't the other teams taken a chance on them and made something better out of them?

And among those that aren't out of the league from the list above, Brad was able to maximize their limited skills or hide their flaws to become passable to really good rotation players in ECF squads -- AB, Jae, KO, Rozier, Zeller, Theis. Someone may take a flyer on Semi and get lucky he turns into something better. Just take Marcus Smart, for example... of all the 1st round picks taken in 2014, only Smart, Embiid, Aaron Gordon, and Gary Harris are the ones that remain on the team that drafted them. And maybe among the top 3 that grew their game the most. Can't even begin to speak about the leaps taken by Tatum and Brown last season.

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Re: Let's talk Robert Williams 

Post#560 » by ConstableGeneva » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:46 pm

From 8:30 of the video above:
"That brings me to my biggest point on why you just shouldn't even make a trade with the Celtics -- Brad Stevens makes guys better than they've ever been with any other team. Which makes them less valuable on a different team than they would be for Boston. Which makes their trade pieces seem more valuable than they actually are."

Someone might say, "okay, but he's bad at developing big guys." Here are the bigs we drafted since Stevens took over -- Olynyk (developed fine; contributor in ECF run), Mickey, Bentil, Zizic, Yabusele. Those last 4 are now out of the league. If there was something there, some NBA team would've turned them into a decent rotation player at least. The Williamses are TBD. And to be fair to most coaches, it takes the longest time to develop bigs in the NBA. Especially in today's NBA.

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