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Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#101 » by Tiny ball » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:56 pm

Bluewhale wrote:I totally agree Brown is not a MAX, for now.

My question is, what is the reasonable price for Brown's next contract?

At minimum, Brown will get a 25/25/25/25 contract pretty easy.

The Max contract is 29/31/33/36 million.

The difference between the two seems marginal, to be honest.

And what if Brown reaches Jimmy Butler level in 3 years?

But if we thought we have enough ball handler(Kemba+Tatum+Hayward), we should move to another direction, I am all right with it.

Call me greedy. I want top three pick back and more.
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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#102 » by 5InOfLouisville » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:36 pm

MagicBagley18 wrote:
5InOfLouisville wrote:Doesn't it follow that, if teams are going to be interested in Jaylen Brown at a max contract, that it makes more sense for us to extend him?

he is a valuable young asset. if we extend him and it doesnt seem to fit, we trade him for assets.

I don't know if JB is worth the max, in a vacuum. But without another direct option...why not? Of course, if a great trade presents itself...everyone should be traded if the price is right.

I understand that his value could falter with a bad year, but based on what I saw last year, him hurting his value more seems unlikely. To me, anyway.


not every team has the same financial path that we do going forward and if the barometer for a trade is another team ''wants him'' its a terrible valuation of assets.


Um, How the celtics and other teams value him is the definition of how to evaluate an asset.

You gauge his value to the celtics internally. If you decide he does not fit, but is still desirable to other teams, then he makes for a valuable asset, because then you weigh what you can get in return for him

If it is better than what is available in free agency or better than nothing at all, then even a jb that doesnt fit is a valuable asset

Man, lol, i remember why i dont internet very much
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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#103 » by MagicBagley18 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:09 pm

5InOfLouisville wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
5InOfLouisville wrote:Doesn't it follow that, if teams are going to be interested in Jaylen Brown at a max contract, that it makes more sense for us to extend him?

he is a valuable young asset. if we extend him and it doesnt seem to fit, we trade him for assets.

I don't know if JB is worth the max, in a vacuum. But without another direct option...why not? Of course, if a great trade presents itself...everyone should be traded if the price is right.

I understand that his value could falter with a bad year, but based on what I saw last year, him hurting his value more seems unlikely. To me, anyway.


not every team has the same financial path that we do going forward and if the barometer for a trade is another team ''wants him'' its a terrible valuation of assets.


Um, How the celtics and other teams value him is the definition of how to evaluate an asset.

You gauge his value to the celtics internally. If you decide he does not fit, but is still desirable to other teams, then he makes for a valuable asset, because then you weigh what you can get in return for him

If it is better than what is available in free agency or better than nothing at all, then even a jb that doesnt fit is a valuable asset

Man, lol, i remember why i dont internet very much


than by all means don't internet much because you said '' if teams are going to be interested at jaylen on a max, that it makes more sense for us to extend him''

the whole point of the argument is that to extend him it will cost the celtics the max....so your entire lame idea is built on a faulty premise. if the celtics could extend jaylen for less than the max they would most likely be interested but given what others from his draft have signed for and the fact that like you mentioned he could get a max deal next offseason- he won't accept less now.

that's what the debate is, trading him now when you may be able to receive an established all star level talent for him as oppose to giving him his max (which he will ask for and get elsewhere) and hoping he lives up to his potential.

maybe that's why you don't '' internet'' much because you're not very good at it.
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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#104 » by 5InOfLouisville » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:40 pm

MagicBagley18 wrote:
5InOfLouisville wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
not every team has the same financial path that we do going forward and if the barometer for a trade is another team ''wants him'' its a terrible valuation of assets.


Um, How the celtics and other teams value him is the definition of how to evaluate an asset.

You gauge his value to the celtics internally. If you decide he does not fit, but is still desirable to other teams, then he makes for a valuable asset, because then you weigh what you can get in return for him

If it is better than what is available in free agency or better than nothing at all, then even a jb that doesnt fit is a valuable asset

Man, lol, i remember why i dont internet very much


than by all means don't internet much because you said '' if teams are going to be interested at jaylen on a max, that it makes more sense for us to extend him''

the whole point of the argument is that to extend him it will cost the celtics the max....so your entire lame idea is built on a faulty premise. if the celtics could extend jaylen for less than the max they would most likely be interested but given what others from his draft have signed for and the fact that like you mentioned he could get a max deal next offseason- he won't accept less now.

that's what the debate is, trading him now when you may be able to receive an established all star level talent for him as oppose to giving him his max (which he will ask for and get elsewhere) and hoping he lives up to his potential.

maybe that's why you don't '' internet'' much because you're not very good at it.


Lol wow. Since youre so awesome at the internet, maybe you could share some of your wisdom with me and help me better at it in said of being do aggressive.

Do you offer an internet message board mentorship program? Or are you more of just an internet talent evaluator? PM me, friend.

Pleasantries aside, youre straight up wrong.

Yea, obviously if you get leonard for brown and filler, you trade him.

BUT, if you are considering signing a player to a max contract, but are unsure of the fit or how that young player’s potential will manifest, if you know that other teams covet him, that immediately alleviates the risk in signing up

Why? Because if it doesnt work out or you dont like him, you can then trade that max contract for favorable assets.

If nobody else wanted him, as you stated, you dont have to pay him a max anyway

If you think he is going to fall off a cliff immediately after signing a max or if the perfect trade comes along...trade him

But my whole point is that demand sets the market value of an asset. And signing a 22 year old coming off a down year who still commands interest at the max around the league sounds like a low risk transaction
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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#105 » by MagicBagley18 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:06 pm

5InOfLouisville wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
5InOfLouisville wrote:
Um, How the celtics and other teams value him is the definition of how to evaluate an asset.

You gauge his value to the celtics internally. If you decide he does not fit, but is still desirable to other teams, then he makes for a valuable asset, because then you weigh what you can get in return for him

If it is better than what is available in free agency or better than nothing at all, then even a jb that doesnt fit is a valuable asset

Man, lol, i remember why i dont internet very much


than by all means don't internet much because you said '' if teams are going to be interested at jaylen on a max, that it makes more sense for us to extend him''

the whole point of the argument is that to extend him it will cost the celtics the max....so your entire lame idea is built on a faulty premise. if the celtics could extend jaylen for less than the max they would most likely be interested but given what others from his draft have signed for and the fact that like you mentioned he could get a max deal next offseason- he won't accept less now.

that's what the debate is, trading him now when you may be able to receive an established all star level talent for him as oppose to giving him his max (which he will ask for and get elsewhere) and hoping he lives up to his potential.

maybe that's why you don't '' internet'' much because you're not very good at it.


Lol wow. Since youre so awesome at the internet, maybe you could share some of your wisdom with me and help me better at it in said of being do aggressive.

Do you offer an internet message board mentorship program? Or are you more of just an internet talent evaluator? PM me, friend.

Pleasantries aside, youre straight up wrong.

Yea, obviously if you get leonard for brown and filler, you trade him.

BUT, if you are considering signing a player to a max contract, but are unsure of the fit or how that young player’s potential will manifest, if you know that other teams covet him, that immediately alleviates the risk in signing up

Why? Because if it doesnt work out or you dont like him, you can then trade that max contract for favorable assets.

If nobody else wanted him, as you stated, you dont have to pay him a max anyway

If you think he is going to fall off a cliff immediately after signing a max or if the perfect trade comes along...trade him

But my whole point is that demand sets the market value of an asset. And signing a 22 year old coming off a down year who still commands interest at the max around the league sounds like a low risk transaction


Not once anywhere did I state that no one else would want him. Never. What I stated was his value to certain teams (key word ; certain) would depend on if they see him as a max player and were willing to match his contract in RFA. Jaylen will have value, not once did I doubt that.

The fact that I mentioned getting an all star caliber player in return should have helped you realize that. Also in that regard we would be paying around 30 million to a player whose actually accomplished what we hope Jaylen May become. You don’t trade jaylen for peanuts but if the right player or package is available you take it- especially if the team has reservations about paying him and the others moving forward.

“If you think he will fall off a cliff after signing a max or the perfect trade comes along...trade him”- in what world would the Celtics or anyone ever give a max contract to a player “they feel will fall off a cliff”. That’s just terrible business. That’s what horribly ran teams do. The Celtics aren’t horribly run.

Commanding a max contract around the league is NOT a great barometer given how many teams are poorly ran and how many bad contracts there is in the nba. My point is why should the Celtics hand out a max deal to him and hope it turns out being a good idea and he lives up to it.
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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#106 » by 5InOfLouisville » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:29 pm

Now i dont know what we are arguing about. Still waiting on that pm :)

Edit: oh wait. To your last point, if we simply do throw out a max contract and hope he lives up to it, because nothing obviously better presents itself, i think that is a low-risk venture, IN LARGE PART BECAUSE of his interest around the league.

IIf other teams want to pay him a max, we can still turn him into valuable assets, or at least we wont be saddled with an albatross
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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#107 » by Havlicek17 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:07 am

I'm a firm believer in athlete's have their best seasons when they are about to become free agents. Given that among other things, I think it's wise to let next season play out before signing Brown to an extension.

All this talk about trading Brown now is very short sighted. A cautionary tale is Oklahoma. Presti drafted 3 NBA MVP's and never won a championship. We're not as revenue limited as Oklahoma. We can afford to keep this team together to see if we can become true championship contenders.

Chill out on all the worries about going over the cap and what's Brown worth. Brown's a RFA and we'll know more about how he's developing and what the market says he's worth after this season. We'll also know more about this newly assembled team then too.

Probably the reason Ainge hasn't had any contract talks with Brown, according to Brown a few weeks ago.
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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#108 » by Bluewhale » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:31 am

I am a Jaylen supporter and Jaylen could be a Jimmy Butler level player.

But putting Jaylen and James Harden in the same case is too high for him, to be honest.

I don't want to trade Brown for trading.

But if a good package availble (like Sabonis+pick), I will think twice before making decision.
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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#109 » by cloverleaf » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:26 am

Bluewhale wrote:I am a Jaylen supporter and Jaylen could be a Jimmy Butler level player.

But putting Jaylen and James Harden in the same case is too high for him, to be honest.

I don't want to trade Brown for trading.

But if a good package availble (like Sabonis+pick), I will think twice before making decision.


JB of course doesn't have JB's skills and size, if you will. But he is still young and can do some valuable things really well, so it is hard to measure just where he'll end up. I've long been of the fringe/couple of AS games estimation for Brown, however--below the Butler level.
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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#110 » by 5InOfLouisville » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:39 am

cloverleaf wrote:
Bluewhale wrote:I am a Jaylen supporter and Jaylen could be a Jimmy Butler level player.

But putting Jaylen and James Harden in the same case is too high for him, to be honest.

I don't want to trade Brown for trading.

But if a good package availble (like Sabonis+pick), I will think twice before making decision.


JB of course doesn't have JB's skills and size, if you will. But he is still young and can do some valuable things really well, so it is hard to measure just where he'll end up. I've long been of the fringe/couple of AS games estimation for Brown, however--below the Butler level.



Kind of splitting hairs here, but Jay is one inch shorter and ten pounds lighter, and will likely fill out a bit more, as he is 22 vs Butler's 29. Jay's wingspan is 4 inches greater as well. The size difference is negligible IMO, and I think Jay is already one of the stronger wings in the league, and should continue to improve said strength.

But ultimately, your overall assessment seems fair.
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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#111 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:56 am

Here's the problem with Jaylen Brown - if you sign him to a max deal, then he might not be worth it. If you sign him to a deal for what he's worth (IMO, I'd say $22-24 million per year), then that guy will pout when we end up giving Tatum the max a few years down the road. Danny's in between a rock and a hard place here.
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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#112 » by 5InOfLouisville » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:14 pm

what evidence is there that Jaylen "would pout" if he signed a 22-24 million dollar contract and then tatum signed a max?

ive never heard jay mention money. i've seen no indication that he has a bad realtionship with tatum or that he would pout over a contract that he himself would have agreed to.

im not saying the kid is perfect, but i don't understand all of the negative qualities attributed to him for seemingly no reason.
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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#113 » by chrisab123 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:58 pm

They'll work something out with Jaylen. Either he stays until RFA or they let him explore the market and match his offer. He's not going anywhere
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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#114 » by Parliament10 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:21 am

You guys think that Ainge is going to be at the World Cup?
He was at the Training & Scrimmages.
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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#115 » by cloverleaf » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:52 pm

5InOfLouisville wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
Bluewhale wrote:I am a Jaylen supporter and Jaylen could be a Jimmy Butler level player.

But putting Jaylen and James Harden in the same case is too high for him, to be honest.

I don't want to trade Brown for trading.

But if a good package availble (like Sabonis+pick), I will think twice before making decision.


JB of course doesn't have JB's skills and size, if you will. But he is still young and can do some valuable things really well, so it is hard to measure just where he'll end up. I've long been of the fringe/couple of AS games estimation for Brown, however--below the Butler level.



Kind of splitting hairs here, but Ja

y is one inch shorter and ten pounds lighter, and will likely fill out a bit more, as he is 22 vs Butler's 29. Jay's wingspan is 4 inches greater as well. The size difference is negligible IMO, and I think Jay is already one of the stronger wings in the league, and should continue to improve said strength.

But ultimately, your overall assessment seems fair.


Probably a fair point on the size comparison. (Listed weights of players long in the league don't tend to be particularly accurate however.)
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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#116 » by ddb » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:05 pm

Darth Celtic wrote:
Bluewhale wrote:I totally agree Brown is not a MAX, for now.

My question is, what is the reasonable price for Brown's next contract?

At minimum, Brown will get a 25/25/25/25 contract pretty easy.

The Max contract is 29/31/33/36 million.

The difference between the two seems marginal, to be honest.

And what if Brown reaches Jimmy Butler level in 3 years?

But if we thought we have enough ball handler(Kemba+Tatum+Hayward), we should move to another direction, I am all right with it.

Gordon Hayward was looked on by the Jazz after his first contract as not max player, but close. They let him negotiate a deal with the Hornets I think that they matched that was also just below max. When he made it as a true star and max player and that contract was up, he left. If he's worth 25/25/25/25 then you just pay him 29/31/33/36. You can still trade him and he might remember that if he truly breaks out in 3 years.

Remember these kids don't really hit that Prime until 26. You usually know what you have then. JB will be like 23 when he can first be restricted free agent.


and this is exactly why there will be a lock-out in the coming years. there's a bubble. you cannot just continue to pay anyone with "upside" a max contract. What is wrong with the league right now is that Max Contracts are no longer for Superstar players. Max contracts are becoming a regular thing for young, decent players with upside that teams are afraid to lose. this backfires for the organization more then it works out.
There needs to be more thresholds of a players ceiling for earnings. For example, if you make an All-Star team during your first 4 seasons on a rookie deal then you become eligible for the first tier of Max money. If you aren't an All-Star in your first 4 years then there is a different max you can earn that is lower. so on and so forth.

The league is trending this way. They just need to implement more levels. Otherwise what will happen is the majority of the teams, especially small market teams, will be completely handcuffed and screwed.
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Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM 

Post#117 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:12 pm

Parliament10 wrote:You guys think that Ainge is going to be at the World Cup?
He was at the Training & Scrimmages.


I doubt it. No Chipotles in China.

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