Page 2 of 6

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:48 am
by celticfan42487
I think this is warranted alone on his finalizing the trade for KG.

Which we've seen getting an MVP player to get to Boston through trade is nearly impossible (and KG fought it tooth and nail and nixed it early on before Ainge finally convinced him even going out and getting Ray Allen which I'm sure KG's agent said was good enough for KG to consider it)

But it's beyond warranted for stealing an all-star level player in IT just signed a couple of months earlier for the long term and for a value that is far below their real value (just got screwed in the market that offseason) for absolutely nothing that is meaningful (late first rounder).

If he can somehow bounce back from Irving personally trying his best to destroy the franchise by getting Kemba to sign here... somehow convincing him to sign to a team that has 0 all-stars on it... in a market that is a significant barrier to having all-stars CHOOSE to play here.

Idk guys that's as good as we'll ever see in modern CBA times I think for this franchise. That's 3 impossible tasks that you dream of every season that could happen for your team. I guess the only thing he has not down is nail a true MVP level franchise player through a top draft pick and ironically that's suppose to be the easiest one to do hahah.

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:57 am
by BostonCouchGM
he's really not. You can't be "incredible" if you're terrible at one of your main duties i.e. drafting. And he IS terrible. He inherited Pierce and his best friend gifted him KG. I can't give him that much credit for that tbh. He preyed on ineptness and stupidity with the Nets trade and it was our owner that pushed him into getting additional future draft picks. Let's not forget that just a few seasons later he wanted to trade all of it to move up and draft Winslow. Thank God there was an even dumber G.M. on the other end of that line that turned him down. I can give him credit for finding under appreciated players who fit well in Brad's system. He's been pretty consistent with that. But no G.M. with just one championship in 15 years as the G.M. is incredible. He's better than many but that's mostly because most don't belong in their roles so it's not saying much. Personally, I want him fired. We are going to be pretenders for the next handful of years and it's going to suck big time.

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:25 am
by celticfan42487
OFWGKTA wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:
OldCeltics wrote:We highly over rate Ainge. However, I'd prefer him over anyone else.


I think we underrate him because we once had a GM go 40 years - 1951 to 1990 - where the team never went more than 5 years without winning a title! Probably would have been 50 years were it not for death of Len Bias.

Nobody can ever live up to Auerbach’s legacy. Bill Belechek would have to keep Pats run going another 20 years to even come close.



Ehh I think the what Belichick has done in the salary cap era of the NFL puts him ahead.


You can be an incredible GM without being the best GM of all time.

I understand and respect both of your points though in the Red vs Bill GOAT argument.

But I think that is a discussion for another day.

With the caveat that I 100% agree with Sam I Am with the exception of maybe the Lakers, if this was any other organisation that didn't have Red what Ainge has done very easily would be the greatest GM performance in their team's history.

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:26 am
by Ed Pinkney
Line up the draft record of any other GM in the league over a long period of time and tell me how many can be argued to be better. The draft record of every team as soon as they are picking outside the top five is littered with selections that don't pan out, some of them are woeful (and some teams even get it wrong multiple times picking inside the top five!).

The draft is the lottery, not the ping pong balls a month earlier. 60 players are picked every year, a majority don't play more than five years in the league (if that). And few things grate my gears more than when people use the exceptions to try and prove their point, using the benefit of hindsight to try and support flimsy arguments. "Ainge didn't pick the outlier All Star who outperformed their universally accepted draft position and scouting reports by a ridiculous margin, HE SUCKS!!!!"

I am a big Danny supporter, but I wouldn't say he is incredible. He is a solid GM, who generally makes the right decisions. He (and his staff) have become really good at managing their cap sheet, making good trades, signing free agents, making some good draft picks.
They obviously make mistakes, and perhaps haven't taken some risks were perhaps they should have. But on the whole, he is good at his job.

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:10 am
by djsunyc
danny ainge is the 2nd best gm in the business.
all the others are tied for first [/bobbyheenan]

it all comes down to expectations and whether he meets your particular expectations or not - that's the subjective part.

the objective part says he's a top tier gm.

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:12 am
by GrandTheftRondo
Ainge is good at making trades that are beneficial for the Celtics.

I believe when it comes to team building he leaves a fair bit to be desired. Incredible is how I’d describe R.C Buford and what the Spurs have done. They essentially contended well beyond when they should have due to his ability to find bargains and find a mid lottery steal in Kawhi.

I’ve always felt like Ainge’s roster moves from 2010-2012 made it hard to win another title. We were continually offensively challenged and far too reliant on an old Pierce and Rondo who couldn’t shoot.

He made some moves but I don’t think they turned out great and from 2008-2013 a draft steal or two really could have helped us. Even the last few years he’s struggled there too.

Getting Kemba really wouldn’t be that amazing. He’s a similar player to Kyrie, not going to make a giant difference.

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:07 am
by scottyno
BostonCouchGM wrote:he's really not. You can't be "incredible" if you're terrible at one of your main duties i.e. drafting. And he IS terrible. He inherited Pierce and his best friend gifted him KG. I can't give him that much credit for that tbh. He preyed on ineptness and stupidity with the Nets trade and it was our owner that pushed him into getting additional future draft picks. Let's not forget that just a few seasons later he wanted to trade all of it to move up and draft Winslow. Thank God there was an even dumber G.M. on the other end of that line that turned him down. I can give him credit for finding under appreciated players who fit well in Brad's system. He's been pretty consistent with that. But no G.M. with just one championship in 15 years as the G.M. is incredible. He's better than many but that's mostly because most don't belong in their roles so it's not saying much. Personally, I want him fired. We are going to be pretenders for the next handful of years and it's going to suck big time.


Look at the guys he's taken with his first draft pick from 2010 on:

2010: Bradley (19)
2011: Johnson (27)
2012: Sullinger (21)
2013: Olynyk (13)
2014: Smart (6)
2015: Rozier (16)
2016: Brown (3)
2017: Tatum (3)

Leaving out 2018 and 2019 because we have no clue what those guys will become yet.

Go through those drafts and see the guys taken the entire rest of the draft after the guys he took, in basically every case but 2011 he ended up with one of the best players available, sure looks like terrible drafting to me...

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:40 am
by LuckyLeprechaun
sam_I_am wrote:
OldCeltics wrote:We highly overrate Ainge. Average drafter, was gifted KG by McHale. Other than that he's gathered and hoarded asses, till he lost a bunch of them.

However, I'd prefer him over anyone else.


Gifted by McHale .... even though Al Jefferson alone was worth more than entire package NO got for a much younger in his prime Anthony Davis.
Differences are KG hadn't requested a trade and agreed to an extension as part of the deal. Danny never would have given up Jefferson if KG had pulled what AD pulled.

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:03 am
by djFan71
LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:
OldCeltics wrote:We highly overrate Ainge. Average drafter, was gifted KG by McHale. Other than that he's gathered and hoarded asses, till he lost a bunch of them.

However, I'd prefer him over anyone else.


Gifted by McHale .... even though Al Jefferson alone was worth more than entire package NO got for a much younger in his prime Anthony Davis.
Differences are KG hadn't requested a trade and agreed to an extension as part of the deal. Danny never would have given up Jefferson if KG had pulled what AD pulled.

And no other crazy team mortgaged their future to the extent LAL did to beat our offer.

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:29 am
by cloverleaf
MyBoyBlu wrote:I mean this team is losing Kyrie/Al/Morris/Baynes/Rozier and gaining Kemba and a 4.7 MLE player. In no way shape or form is this team better than last year nor a contender this year and very likely next year.


Way premature. You can almost guarantee a good-sized trade for a big if Walker is signed. Probably if he isn't, too.

IF they can fix the chemistry and balance the roster while coming up with reasonable replacements for Kyrie and Al, they''ll be in pretty good shape.

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:39 am
by Fencer reregistered
OldCeltics wrote: he's gathered and hoarded asses


Are you confusing Danny Ainge with RealGM?

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:14 am
by Tiny ball
I'm not a big Danny fan as the Celtics gm but he is really good at some stuff. Like we might have 3 first round pick again next year. That is amazing work.

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:39 am
by sam_I_am
LuckyLeprechaun wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:
OldCeltics wrote:We highly overrate Ainge. Average drafter, was gifted KG by McHale. Other than that he's gathered and hoarded asses, till he lost a bunch of them.

However, I'd prefer him over anyone else.


Gifted by McHale .... even though Al Jefferson alone was worth more than entire package NO got for a much younger in his prime Anthony Davis.
Differences are KG hadn't requested a trade and agreed to an extension as part of the deal. Danny never would have given up Jefferson if KG had pulled what AD pulled.


People ignore the fact that Minnesota drafted Johnny Flynn instead of Seth Curry with one of picks we gave. Would 1 year of KG greatness have been worth an entire career of Al Jefferson and Seth Curry? Al was averaging 24/12 for Minnesota prior to blowing ACL. You think anything NO got (or could have got or can get in futrevdrafts )can ever be as good as Seth Curry?

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:08 am
by Sibelius
For me overall he is a good GM, however I feel he picked the wrong path trying to recreate the KG trade/big 3 era with AD, or at least hung on to the dream too long. Lets face it, it was obvious that he would have sold the farm if Kyrie was staying and bringing AD. That seems almost willfully negligent, particularly in light of the terrible chemistry Kyrie fosters and the fact that Kyrie came out with the "I don't owe anybody ****" comments before AD even demanded his trade. For me he should have traded Kyrie at the deadline after those comments, in fact I was all for trading Kyrie after the no show in the ECF.

So, it was brutally obvious Kyrie was leaving and that AD had no intention of coming here, at that point he should have quashed the notion that he was interested in AD. Instead he publicly dangled Brown and Tatum, asking NO to hold off till summer in the hope that the Irving/Davis pairing would work. All that will have achieved is to alienate Brown and Tatum, which I hope can be salvaged, but the lack of trust on both sides could be a long term issue for the franchise.

I think signing Walker at the expense of Horford, Rozier and Baynes could be a mistake as well, although we don't know the details of what happened there, could be they didn't low ball Horford and he just wanted a fresh start, in which case it is not Ainge's bad decision. For me the more glaring need was at PF & C, especially after drafting two midget point guards, a midget PF and a combo guard. Unless they are somehow able to improve the bigs situation significantly without sacrificing too much else, it could be ugly.

At least signing Kemba is a bit of a coup for the franchise and will improve the bad image last season has left. In isolation given the roster balance it is a bit of a confusing move.

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:27 am
by sam_I_am
For comparison, what is Toronto going to do if Kawhi walks? They’ve had a whole year to prepare for the obvious. Yet all we hear are crickets. By the time they ditch Gasol or Ibaka for cap space it will be too late to get a good FA. It means dumping Gasol and Ibaka for assets to teams that have cap space or bad contracts to ditch and rebuilding around Siakam and OG. I really like Siakam but is he a franchise player? Withno lottery picks coming and little chance to get a free agent....it means having to tank....

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:34 am
by King Of The 4th
Not gonna lie, there was a brief moment after Horford announced he was leaving that I was ready to cross over to the "Fire Ainge" side. Very impressed with his composure when it seemed like the entire foundation of our team was collapsing in front of our eyes.

It more than likely won't be our Banner 18 team, but I'll gladly take a Kemba/Tatum led team over whatever recreation of the 2014 Celtics team I thought we were going to get a week ago.

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:54 am
by sam_I_am
OFWGKTA wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:
OldCeltics wrote:We highly over rate Ainge. However, I'd prefer him over anyone else.


I think we underrate him because we once had a GM go 40 years - 1951 to 1990 - where the team never went more than 5 years without winning a title! Probably would have been 50 years were it not for death of Len Bias.

Nobody can ever live up to Auerbach’s legacy. Bill Belechek would have to keep Pats run going another 20 years to even come close.



Ehh I think the what Belichick has done in the salary cap era of the NFL puts him ahead.


Auerbach won 11 titles in 13 years with his GOAT but he had no salary cap to deal with. When his GOAT retired he then went another 22 years of never going 5 years without a title. I appreciate the difficulty of salary cap and how outstanding Belechek has been. I’m just saying, he did go 10 years without a title with his GOAT. To match Auerbach, he has to replace Brady with a HOFer....win titles over a decade and then replace that HOFer with another and win titles over another decade. That is the bar set by the greatest GM of all time Mr. Red Auerbach!

When I was a kid, Celtics fans were despondent because we went a whole 4 years 1976-1980 without hope for a title before we were “rescued” by Larry Bird. Today we are happy because Danny rebuilt this team in such a “short time”.....it’s been 11 years and counting since our last banner! Expectations and the results were just so different when Red was in charge. But as you say, salary cap era has changed things for every team....except the Lakers of course. [BTW, I find it ridiculous that LA fans count the 5 titles the Minnesota Lakers won when comparing their team to Boston]

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:00 pm
by Fantaxp7
If Kyrie wasn't the turd in the punch bowl, we'd have a pretty amazing team.

Ainge tried to have his cake and eat it too with the moves he took and they were pretty well calculated. But no one knew Kyrie would be this bad of a fit.

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:06 pm
by Banks2Pierce
Sibelius wrote:Instead he publicly dangled Brown and Tatum, asking NO to hold off till summer in the hope that the Irving/Davis pairing would work. All that will have achieved is to alienate Brown and Tatum, which I hope can be salvaged, but the lack of trust on both sides could be a long term issue for the franchise.

I think signing Walker at the expense of Horford, Rozier and Baynes could be a mistake as well, although we don't know the details of what happened there, could be they didn't low ball Horford and he just wanted a fresh start, in which case it is not Ainge's bad decision. For me the more glaring need was at PF & C, especially after drafting two midget point guards, a midget PF and a combo guard. Unless they are somehow able to improve the bigs situation significantly without sacrificing too much else, it could be ugly.



Those guys were not publicly dangled at all. It's still sort of cloudy whether or not Tatum was offered. They both seemed to get better later in the season than they were earlier as well so I'm not sure that holds water. The Lakers imploded.

Citing the pgs drafted in the 2nd round as a deterrent to signing Kemba is just not an argument based in the reality of the nba. They'll have been good picks if they are even kicking around in the league in 2 years.

Re: Danny Ainge is an incredible GM

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:07 pm
by Sibelius
Fantaxp7 wrote:If Kyrie wasn't the turd in the punch bowl, we'd have a pretty amazing team.

Ainge tried to have his cake and eat it too with the moves he took and they were pretty well calculated. But no one knew Kyrie would be this bad of a fit.


I knew after his "I don't owe anybody ****" comment, he should have been traded at the deadline and we should have dropped the AD stuff earlier. We could have had Marc Gasol or someone similar in return for a serious playoff run.