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Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach?

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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#21 » by hickfromfrenchlick » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:49 pm

Elrod is Back wrote:
captain green wrote:Yes and regardless of your counter point Stevens will coach through his contract. So go ahead and lock this nonsense.


Unless Danny and Wyc are incompetent, they are thinking about this issue, as is Brad, if he is anything close to the coach most of us think he is. So if the team management is thinking about this, why can't we?

For an example of why this is a pertinent discussion, Steve Kerr was willing to take on DeMarcus Cousins. But for Brad that seems to be a bridge too far. At some point Stevens is going to have to dip his toe in the deep end of the NBA, isn't he? And I am not using the Cousins example to say we should necessarily sign him, simply to illustrate my point.


Inviting a guy like Cousins into the locker room of a dynasty squad filled with hugely famous and talented vets is a lot smaller risk, no?

A guy like that may big-league Jaylen Brown, but he's not going to big-league Klay Thompson.
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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#22 » by ermocrate » Mon Jul 1, 2019 12:51 pm

hickfromfrenchlick wrote:
Elrod is Back wrote:Chris Webber called into NBA-TV last night to discuss the free agent signings and the discussion turned to the Celtics and why the Kyrie experiment failed.

Webber was critical of Kyrie, but he was equally critical of Brad Stevens, saying that Brad has yet to show he can coach NBA veteran stars, meaning big ego guys with an agenda but also the talent to win games consistently. Webber was quick to acknowledge that Stevens is a good coach, but he said Stevens lost control of the locker room and that was on him.

I have to agree. Danny has pretty much given Brad a knucklehead-free roster since he has been here. The hard-to-handle guys, like Rondo and Jordan Crawford, where shipped out as quickly as possible. By contrast, Danny threw Ricky Davis, Sebastian Telfair, Rajon Rondo and a cast of thousand at Doc Rivers, who handled these guys as well as any coach could.

Kyrie was Brad's first real challenge and he failed.

Danny's response, based on the recent draft, seems to be to double down stocking the roster with easy-to-coach great guys.
The problem is that Brad and boy scouts can clearly be a playoff team, a winning team, and a lovable team, but unless we magically get a boy scout superstar handed to us, it will not be a championship team. Rooting for the underdog is fun and all that, but the point of the exercise is to compete for titles, not for a remake of Hoosiers.

The great coaches have all been able to handle difficult personalities. Brad had better get comfortable doing that or he will gravitate to being a mediocre coach, and I suspect he will end up back in the college ranks within a few years.


Everybody's a critic.

Kyrie wasn't a "challenge." He's a total weirdo who doesn't sign charity basketballs.

No coach was going to guide that team to a title. Not Red. Not Riley. Not Doc. Not the Zenmaster. Nobody.

I agree Brad hasn't yet proved himself, and that he didn't have a great season (it wasn't all Kyrie's fault, obviously), but people are over-correcting after calling him the 2nd best coach in the NBA.

I really don’t agree, you don’t know how much “weirdos” like a long, hard discipline... You are giving supernatural powers to Kyrie while CBS couldn’t even manage Kids barely out of High School.
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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#23 » by sam_I_am » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:05 pm

Doc had a much worse record as coach in his first 5 years in Boston. Once the talent came he was great. Brad has yet to have a really good team. Last year (2017-8) he coached up that team before and after Kyrie injury. This year he struggle, but is it his fault Kyrie had one foot out the door and couldn’t be bothered to buy in? Is it his fault Hayward needed a second surgery that set him back 6 mos. and wasn’t ready? Is it his fault that Al wasn’t at same level as last year? Truthfully, our tea. Didn’t underperform....they just weren’t that good. Milwaukee was simply better and more talented and it wasn’t even close.
sam_I_am »2017:Kyrie isn't much of an upgrade over IT and he is **** crazy. Demands to be traded after 3 finals passing on supermax to go to Knicks. More talent around than IT did 2 yrs ago, no playoffs until Lebron came.Kyrie cant hold leads w/o Lebron.
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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#24 » by SmartWentCrazy » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:14 pm

This is a big year for Brad. If we have another greatly disappointing season, he’s going to rightfully start catching a ton of heat.
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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#25 » by Joshyjess » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:29 pm

How about giving Brad a chance to learn before branding him a bad coach? This was Brad's first time dealing with an Egomaniac (or two), and unfortunately for him, Irving is one of the biggest Whack-a-doodles to ever play the game. I seriously doubt any coach (including Pop) could have done a good job this season if his first self-centered player was one of Irving's caliber. Did Brad lose the locker room? Of course. Would pretty much any other young coach have lost the same locker room under the same conditions? Of course.
The main question is how much did Brad learn? Having fruit-cake Irving, and Grumpy Rozier might actually be a good thing. I seriously doubt that Stevens will have to face a worst combo in his career than those two nut jobs. Let's see how Brad deals with any other malcontents in the future, before we pass judgement on him.
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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#26 » by DarkAzcura » Mon Jul 1, 2019 1:44 pm

I really hate the idea of everyone starting to doubt Stevens simply because of Kyrie. I gave Kyrie the benefit of the doubt when he decided he wanted to be traded away from Lebron, but ya know, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Dude is what he is. He isn't coachable, and there are players out there who will never be coachable no matter the coach. Brooklyn was a good move for Kyrie. He seems like a family centric kind of guy. I think he will have his struggles with the team just like here, but this time he will have his family to talk him down from the ledge.
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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#27 » by Slartibartfast » Mon Jul 1, 2019 2:00 pm

DarkAzcura wrote:I really hate the idea of everyone starting to doubt Stevens simply because of Kyrie. I gave Kyrie the benefit of the doubt when he decided he wanted to be traded away from Lebron, but ya know, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Dude is what he is. He isn't coachable, and there are players out there who will never be coachable no matter the coach. Brooklyn was a good move for Kyrie. He seems like a family centric kind of guy. I think he will have his struggles with the team just like here, but this time he will have his family to talk him down from the ledge.


It wasn't just Kyrie though. It was losing control of guys like Rozier and Morris and seeing Tatum pivot into bad habits.

The independence he gave the players turned into chaos and selfishness and he could never reassert control.
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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#28 » by hickfromfrenchlick » Mon Jul 1, 2019 2:12 pm

ermocrate wrote:
hickfromfrenchlick wrote:
Elrod is Back wrote:Chris Webber called into NBA-TV last night to discuss the free agent signings and the discussion turned to the Celtics and why the Kyrie experiment failed.

Webber was critical of Kyrie, but he was equally critical of Brad Stevens, saying that Brad has yet to show he can coach NBA veteran stars, meaning big ego guys with an agenda but also the talent to win games consistently. Webber was quick to acknowledge that Stevens is a good coach, but he said Stevens lost control of the locker room and that was on him.

I have to agree. Danny has pretty much given Brad a knucklehead-free roster since he has been here. The hard-to-handle guys, like Rondo and Jordan Crawford, where shipped out as quickly as possible. By contrast, Danny threw Ricky Davis, Sebastian Telfair, Rajon Rondo and a cast of thousand at Doc Rivers, who handled these guys as well as any coach could.

Kyrie was Brad's first real challenge and he failed.

Danny's response, based on the recent draft, seems to be to double down stocking the roster with easy-to-coach great guys.
The problem is that Brad and boy scouts can clearly be a playoff team, a winning team, and a lovable team, but unless we magically get a boy scout superstar handed to us, it will not be a championship team. Rooting for the underdog is fun and all that, but the point of the exercise is to compete for titles, not for a remake of Hoosiers.

The great coaches have all been able to handle difficult personalities. Brad had better get comfortable doing that or he will gravitate to being a mediocre coach, and I suspect he will end up back in the college ranks within a few years.


Everybody's a critic.

Kyrie wasn't a "challenge." He's a total weirdo who doesn't sign charity basketballs.

No coach was going to guide that team to a title. Not Red. Not Riley. Not Doc. Not the Zenmaster. Nobody.

I agree Brad hasn't yet proved himself, and that he didn't have a great season (it wasn't all Kyrie's fault, obviously), but people are over-correcting after calling him the 2nd best coach in the NBA.

I really don’t agree, you don’t know how much “weirdos” like a long, hard discipline... You are giving supernatural powers to Kyrie while CBS couldn’t even manage Kids barely out of High School.


First off, that's a weird first sentence you wrote.

Second, the next coach that successfully "disciplines" Kyrie will be the first. Best of luck to Atkinson.

Third, CBS couldn't manage kids barely out of HS? Did you miss the 2018 playoffs???
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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#29 » by DarkAzcura » Mon Jul 1, 2019 2:14 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
DarkAzcura wrote:I really hate the idea of everyone starting to doubt Stevens simply because of Kyrie. I gave Kyrie the benefit of the doubt when he decided he wanted to be traded away from Lebron, but ya know, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Dude is what he is. He isn't coachable, and there are players out there who will never be coachable no matter the coach. Brooklyn was a good move for Kyrie. He seems like a family centric kind of guy. I think he will have his struggles with the team just like here, but this time he will have his family to talk him down from the ledge.


It wasn't just Kyrie though. It was losing control of guys like Rozier and Morris and seeing Tatum pivot into bad habits.

The independence he gave the players turned into chaos and selfishness and he could never reassert control.


I attribute that more to Ainge than Stevens still. You can't expect the best coach to ever coach the game to manage 7 guys who want to all take at least 15 shots a game. Good luck with that. Ainge put Stevens in a bad position because he was too blindsided in his dreams for AD.
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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#30 » by OldCeltics » Mon Jul 1, 2019 2:20 pm

yes

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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#31 » by jfs1000d » Mon Jul 1, 2019 2:26 pm

Yes.


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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#32 » by jfs1000d » Mon Jul 1, 2019 2:27 pm

Brad struggled with an EMO Star. He probably figured players are professional and would do their jobs and have a common goal of winning .

Big mistake.


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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#33 » by jfs1000d » Mon Jul 1, 2019 2:28 pm

ermocrate wrote:I think he is like Larry Brown.

Nothing like Larry Brown. Brown is a great basketball mind, but very impatient. Brad has patience.


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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#34 » by hickfromfrenchlick » Mon Jul 1, 2019 2:30 pm

jfs1000d wrote:
ermocrate wrote:I think he is like Larry Brown.

Nothing like Larry Brown. Brown is a great basketball mind, but very impatient. Brad has patience.


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Ya think? His CV is longer than the NBA's CBA.
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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#35 » by gocelts » Mon Jul 1, 2019 2:42 pm

Some of you are really smart posters...but I just cant believe how caught up some of you have gotten.

It was all good Kyrie's first year. Not many issues other than injuries. Tyron Lue coached Kyrie in the playoffs. Does that mean hes a better coach?


Now is Stevens the right coach for Kyrie? Definitely not. But that doesnt mean he's a bad coach. And you can absolutely win a championship with Stevens.
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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#36 » by amory87 » Mon Jul 1, 2019 2:48 pm

We don't know yet. We're going to have to see how he manages egos going forward because I don't think he did a great job last year with that aspect at least. And it's a huge part of being an NBA head coach.
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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#37 » by mzepol » Mon Jul 1, 2019 3:06 pm

IMHO, not until he learns to control egos and personalities in the locker room, and show that he can handle "star" players, like Doc was able to handle KG back in the day.
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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#38 » by ermocrate » Mon Jul 1, 2019 3:12 pm

hickfromfrenchlick wrote:
ermocrate wrote:
hickfromfrenchlick wrote:
Everybody's a critic.

Kyrie wasn't a "challenge." He's a total weirdo who doesn't sign charity basketballs.

No coach was going to guide that team to a title. Not Red. Not Riley. Not Doc. Not the Zenmaster.
I agree Brad hasn't yet proved himself, and that he didn't have a great season (it wasn't all Kyrie's fault, obviously), but people are over-correcting after calling him the 2nd best coach in the NBA.

I really don’t agree, you don’t know how much “weirdos” like a long, hard discipline... You are giving supernatural powers to Kyrie while CBS couldn’t even manage Kids barely out of High School.


First off, that's a weird first sentence you wrote.

Second, the next coach that successfully "disciplines" Kyrie will be the first. Best of luck to Atkinson.

Third, CBS couldn't manage kids barely out of HS? Did you miss the 2018 playoffs???

The first sentence was weird on purpose, there are way to f* even the most reluctant person, Coach should be pro at that.


I didn’t miss the 2018 playoffs and I’m not very happy about those PO made of enormous mistakes, the only thing that brought us there was the will to give their best and an uncanny instinct. In fact we lost from a greatly inferior team and the performance of some player varied from “borderline star” to “ymca player” on daily basis. That was not a product of discipline.
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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#39 » by celticfan42487 » Mon Jul 1, 2019 3:14 pm

Extremely obviously he is. And there's a reason he's so well respected by the players in a very short amount of time in the league. Despite his age and other background differences from them.
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Re: Is Brad Stevens a championship caliber coach? 

Post#40 » by JR Hawks » Mon Jul 1, 2019 3:25 pm

Nobody can deny Stevens was awful last year. That itself makes it legitimate to start asking questions about the guy. What should worry Celtics fans is that Danny refuses to publicly acknowledge Brad's role in that mess. If that lack of accountability is also the reality behind the scenes, we have a problem on our hands. This is a players league, not a coaches league. Danny better recognize that.

By the way, another overachieving year with the current roster is not enough. We've already seen Brad coach up rosters that aren't true contenders. We need more than that. We need to be in the finals.

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