Discuss the Altered Balance of Power in the EC

[radcot]

I have Philly and Bucks clear favorites as of now.
Then Raptors, Pacers, Celtics around the same tier. Trade deadline could really matter.

Agree. Kawhi's exit leaves the ECF door wide open. I think it will motivate Ainge to make a major deal before the deadline if he thinks there's something there that will give us a good chance to come out of the East.

[Spin Move]

Tier 1
1. Philly, its a strange team but by far the most talented, they need more shooting but Embiid, Al, Harris, Simmons are all All star level players They have a few other nice pieces as well, we will see how fit goes but they are top tier.
2. Milwalkee, They stay about the same, Gianiss is the best individual player like Philly PG is an issue

Tier 2
3. Boston, Major step down defensivly at 1 and 5 but likley to have much batter chemistry and several players stand to improve given the shots of Rozier and Morris (over 19 a game) have been removed to be spread around to other players. Offensivly we will be fine, although we will miss Hayward's passsing, but we will be a better rebounding team. Still lots of talent, but not as much potential as last years team had.
4. Indy: They improved the rest of the roster whether they are 3 or 7 depends on how Oladiplo plays, very good front court, Brogden and Warren were nice pickup (though I don't think Brogden will earn his contract). They play hard and defend, 4 seems about right
5. Toronto: I mean they lost Leonard, they wont be as good but they still have a decent amount of talent though many of their best players are aging.

Tier 3
6. Brooklyn: They overperformed last year and took a 32 win team to 40 wins, Irving is a signifigent upgrade from Russell I see around 43 wins
7. Miami: They got Butler, in the east he will push them towards a playoff spot
8. Orlando: They will continue to grow, they are a trade for a PG away from moving up a spot or two.
9. Detriot: Some good pieces but not enough shooting or defensive effort to do anything special, those peices don't fit well.
10: Washington: They have Beal that is something.

Tier 4
The rest
Not really worth discussing.

[robdog_5]

I think Indy is above us because we have depth issues. I'll take our starting lineup but they have a better team at moment. Unless these rookies prove me otherwise

[Spin Move]

I think Indy is above us because we have depth issues. I'll take our starting lineup but they have a better team at moment. Unless these rookies prove me otherwise

We lack a real power forward and proven depth at 5 but Kemba JT,JB,GH, and Smart will account for around 165 minutes of the 240 played each game, Kanter will take another 25, thies has shown he can be a good backup for 15 so about 205 of 240 mpg are accounted for (Tatum or Hayward will be spending some time at 4 around 15 mins per game), who will step up to take them among the remining players who know). If we have an injuy we have a week bench, but there is no reason that at least 2 the starters should remain on the floor at all times.

PG:Kemba/ Smart/ Edwards
SG: Brown/Smart/Langford
SF: Taytum/Hayward
PF ????? no starter level talent, Thies/Williams/Yabusele
C: Kanter, Williams, Porier

We need to stay healthy but 4 is really the only spot light on depth.

[greenroom31]

Barring catastrophic injuries, my expectation is that each time will finish in their group (i.e. Boston finishes 3, 4, 5, or 6; Philly finishes 1 or 2).

1. Milwaukee
2. Philly

MIND THE GAP

3. Indiana (if Oladipo is back soon)
4. Nets
5. Toronto
6. Boston

MIND THE GAP PART 2

7. Miami
8. Orlando
9. Atlanta
10. Detroit

[GregB]

I think people are underrating Philly. I think they are best team in east next year. Josh Richardson and Al Horford is an improvement for them.

They will be so much better defensively imo.

I see
Tier 1

Philly
Milwaukee

Tier 2

Celtics
Pacers
Nets

[OldCeltics]

Celtics #1.

Philly over rated. They will be worse than last year.

Giannis vs Tacko Fall is a done deal

[Bleeding Green]

Sixers are the best team. Bucks could have peaked last year, or at least they didn't get better this offseason. Richardson and Horford are awesome, awesome fits with that starting lineup. Year 3 (4) Ben Simmons incoming. Depth is a concern for the regular season for them, though I think that's my favorite starting five in the league (Simmons/Richardson/Harris/Horford/Embiid). Five good to great passers, Simmons with 3 shooters around him. Thybulle and Smith are up in the air, but both could prove to be really good role players.

Celtics have the obvious potential improvements from Hayward, Smart, Tatum, Brown, Rob Williams to look forward to. Probably the best rookie group in the East (of playoff contenders). Kemba is worse than Kyrie, but probably a much better fit. Kanter is worse than Horford, but the backup bigs should be an improvement over last year. Wouldn't take much to improve on last year.

Indy I see being about the same. They lost Bogdanovic and Young, added Brogdon, Oladipo is coming back from injury. Expect improvement from Sabonis/Turner, they stole Warren from the Suns. OK, maybe they could be a little better?

Brooklyn could be good, but who knows when you have Kyrie on your team how that's going to go. Looked like a really tight group of players then they added in a bunch of talented dick heads.

Toronto is definitely worse of course. It's Siakam's team now. Their best bet may be to trade Lowry and Gasol midseason. They could get a decent haul and quickly reset, even re-sign Lowry back the next year if they want. But they were still a really good team even without Kawhi last year, so who knows. Wouldn't be crazy if FVV, Anunoby and Siakam all continued to improve. Masai will probably pull some UDFA out of nowhere too.

Looks like the same top six teams, barring major injuries or some young player making a Giannis or Siakam leap.

Rest of the conference is still pretty ass. They can fight over the 7-8 seeds, though I imagine with the new tanking odds we'll see teams in that range just tank at the end of the season and hope for some lottery luck. So it's just a game of who doesn't want to tank for a month? Take you pick on who won't tank, probably who ever doesn't own their own pick. Do you want to go hard for 41 wins and then get swept by the Bucks/Sixers or would you rather just coast to 39 wins, and get a 10% chance at a top-3 pick?

Atlanta is a fun pick, but I think that's a fantasy pick for this year at least. Orlando is a bunch of athletes who aren't good at basketball. Knicks definitely got better and Robinson wouldn't surprise me if he's a DPOY candidate, Knox will be improved. RJ Barrett could be ROY, but probably inefficient his first year. I think they'll trade off most of the FA-signings at the deadline for picks, so not a real playoff contender, even for the 8 seed. Cleveland is disgustingly bad. Miami isn't gonna tank, they may have gotten better, got rid of Wade, added Butler, lost Whiteside, lost Richardson. Butler isn't a great fit alongside Winslow, neither guy can play offball. I like Adebayo to take a step forward.

Washington are hard-tank candidates. Charlotte sucks major ass. Chicago is really bad and they just drafted a point guard who they'll probably throw into the fire.

[Parasite]

I see us anywhere from 2nd to 7th seed. This completely depends on the development of Tatum and the reemergence of Hayward. If Tatum makes a big leap and Hayward is 90% of his old self, 2nd seed with a chance at the Finals. In this scenario, Williams will have to play good defensive minutes for us as well. I’m not expecting a significant leap from Brown. I think he pretty much is what he is.

Having said that, as of this moment I think it shakes out like this.

Bucks
Sixers
Raptors
Celtics
Pacers

I don’t think anyone else has much of a shot at this time. I do think the Celtics will be playing their best ball at the end of the year though. I expect a rocky first couple months.

[Theocy]

Depending on what hayward jaylen and Jason we get we can be anything between 7th seed and 2nd seed. A lot of ifs there

[GoCeltics123]

Philly looks good defensively but there is very little spacing in that lineup.

Also, Philly's biggest issue for years was getting creators off the dribble on the perimeter; Jimmy supplied that, and was their clear best player in the playoffs. By a mile. He's gone now.

Not sold on them. Al helps a lot though.

[amory87]

It's one of the best outcomes we could've hoped for. Kawhi ending up with the Lakers or Raptors were both bad scenarios.

Philly should be the best team in the east next year IMO. They have the most potential. Depends on what they do with it and if they can stay healthy.

[Tiny ball]

I see us anywhere from 2nd to 7th seed. This completely depends on the development of Tatum and the reemergence of Hayward. If Tatum makes a big leap and Hayward is 90% of his old self, 2nd seed with a chance at the Finals. In this scenario, Williams will have to play good defensive minutes for us as well. I’m not expecting a significant leap from Brown. I think he pretty much is what he is.

Having said that, as of this moment I think it shakes out like this.

Bucks
Sixers
Raptors
Celtics
Pacers

I don’t think anyone else has much of a shot at this time. I do think the Celtics will be playing their best ball at the end of the year though. I expect a rocky first couple months.

I expect Brown to take the leap? Tatum sucked so bad last year with his fall away jumpers hitting the front of the rim. If Brad will not stop that crap we will be lucky to make the playoffs. Sit his ass let someone that has a clue play and devlop a young guy that cares about team ball. Any thing but him missing Iso fall away jumpers. He sucks.

[Tiny ball]

It's one of the best outcomes we could've hoped for. Kawhi ending up with the Lakers or Raptors were both bad scenarios.

Philly should be the best team in the east next year IMO. They have the most potential. Depends on what they do with it and if they can stay healthy.

If they did not have Horford I would say they are not capable of winning the east. They are bunch of losers that are in Basketball for the money. Trouble is Horford is a winning type player. Maybe he takes off games. His knees act up and we cream them again and again. I hate the 76ers.

[GoGreen]

Philly are the favorites IMO. Horford is a huge get. But Hayward, Tatum and Brown are going to come out the gates swinging. Philly/Cs/Bucks will be a slugfest.

[Bleeding Green]

Philly looks good defensively but there is very little spacing in that lineup.

Also, Philly's biggest issue for years was getting creators off the dribble on the perimeter; Jimmy supplied that, and was their clear best player in the playoffs. By a mile. He's gone now.

Not sold on them. Al helps a lot though.

How is there no spacing? Everyone can shoot except Simmons. Butler was a terrible fit alongside Simmons. Both guys need the ball to be effective. Richardson and Horford are both really effective without the ball, both do everything well. Everyone on this starting lineup is a great passer (maybe not Harris) and they can all shoot (except Simmons). They're gonna blow doors when the starters are on the floor together. Horford up high and Embiid down low is going to be unguardable.

[hickfromfrenchlick]

I think the East could be as bad as we've seen since Kidd used to make the finals with the Nets every year.

All the major teams got worse or potentially just the same for the Bucks.

Bucks - worse without Brogdon or just about the same

Philly - Butler for Horford? Much worse. Richards for JJ is at best a wash for a Simmons/Embiid team. 0 goto bucket getter in crunch time.
Pacers - Better. TJ Warren, Lamb, and Brog better than just whomever they lost and that Bogdxk guy.
Toronto - Much worse. still a team with FVV, Siakam, Lowry, Ibaka, Gasol. They'll have some scoring issues but loaded with great vets.
Celtics - Obviously we were devastated. Rozier, Horford, Irving, Morris for Kemba and Kanter.
Nets - Irving and Deandre and their young supporting cast. A lot like the Celtics this season.
Heat - Jimmy Buckets and their bucket of vet slop. Yawn, playoff team though.

Last spot -- who **** cares, garbage everywhere.

I think the Bucks have an easy time getting to the Finals. They're the only team in the league besides the 76ers with an MVP level player and their roster actually fits. The 76ers spacing with Simmons, Embiid, Horford, Harris are going to bump into each other in the playoffs in the half court and when it comes to 2 minutes left to score it'll be just another Embiid missed shots.

Devastated is a bit harsh.

Kyrie for Kemba may well be a net positive.

Losing Horford hurts. Devastating? Nah.

(Devastating might be his effect on the Sixers payroll when he's 36. And I'd say Toronto losing a top-3 player is devastating.)

Scary Terry and Chuck Morris? Thank you for your service, guys. Good luck, and don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

[celticfan42487]

I think the East could be as bad as we've seen since Kidd used to make the finals with the Nets every year.

All the major teams got worse or potentially just the same for the Bucks.

Bucks - worse without Brogdon or just about the same

Philly - Butler for Horford? Much worse. Richards for JJ is at best a wash for a Simmons/Embiid team. 0 goto bucket getter in crunch time.
Pacers - Better. TJ Warren, Lamb, and Brog better than just whomever they lost and that Bogdxk guy.
Toronto - Much worse. still a team with FVV, Siakam, Lowry, Ibaka, Gasol. They'll have some scoring issues but loaded with great vets.
Celtics - Obviously we were devastated. Rozier, Horford, Irving, Morris for Kemba and Kanter.
Nets - Irving and Deandre and their young supporting cast. A lot like the Celtics this season.
Heat - Jimmy Buckets and their bucket of vet slop. Yawn, playoff team though.

Last spot -- who **** cares, garbage everywhere.

I think the Bucks have an easy time getting to the Finals. They're the only team in the league besides the 76ers with an MVP level player and their roster actually fits. The 76ers spacing with Simmons, Embiid, Horford, Harris are going to bump into each other in the playoffs in the half court and when it comes to 2 minutes left to score it'll be just another Embiid missed shots.

Devastated is a bit harsh.

Kyrie for Kemba may well be a net positive.

Losing Horford hurts. Devastating? Nah.

(Devastating might be his effect on the Sixers payroll when he's 36. And I'd say Toronto losing a top-3 player is devastating.)

Scary Terry and Chuck Morris? Thank you for your service, guys. Good luck, and don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

You don't view this as a devastating exchange?

In:
Kemba
Kanter
A French guy

Out:
Horford
Irving
Morris
Rozier
Baynes

We recovered greatly with Kemba and Kanter (not quite as nice as the Warriors getting Dlo for Durant just wanting to leave, but about as good as you could do losing 2 all-stars).

But yeah man, idk. Listen our team is going to be way more enjoyable, and we're in a great spot with a lot of young talent to watch potentially grow (Tatum, Brown, TimeLord, Langford) and good vets. We're clearly a playoff team. But that ins and outs on the roster speak for itself.

Kemba may be better for this team because Irving has mental issues, but Horford is clearly straight up better than Kanter. Like flatly better.

Then you're talking about 3 starting level players for one French guy.

Our team went from predicted contenders last off season to middle of the road playoff team. It isn't the time to be depressed but it isn't the time to surgarcoat the situation either. Our team's fall is apart of the reason this year will be one of the weakest East Conference seasons since the Kidd RJ Martin "dynasty" seasons. Yikes.

[GreenTeamah]

Philly
Milwaukee
Toronto (still unless they blow it up)
Indiana
Brooklyn
Celtics
Magic
Miami

And we’ll be lucky to grab the 5th seed if Miami trades for Russ and Magic take another step, Kanter is our starting center right now lol horrendous

[Tiny ball]

I think we march up pretty well with teams out west. I love Davis but he is not an overwhelming physical force. lAC are stacked but their strength is wings which is our strength. Theirs are better but the games will be really fun to watch. The Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Jazz, Blazers are right there with them. A healthy Warriors team could still win it all if Klay is 100% by May. Unfortunately, our problem is that our two biggest rivals in the East - Bucks and Sixers - have Giannis and Embiid and we have nobody to stop them after losing Horford. The Raptors are still interesting because of the emergence of Siakam and they still have OG and Van Fleet and Lowry. No longer the favorites, they still could have Celtics number given front court experience so I hope we don’t meet in playoffs.

I feel that championship contention is within reach for Celtics in near future however as both the Bucks and Sixers are capped out for awhile and Boston is loaded with talent and assets necessary to retool and balance the roster. Hoping Danny can pull off a final tweak to sign and trade. If we ever made it out of East to finals.....as good as the West is 1-6, we would have a punchers chance at any of them.

All you really need is a puncher's chance. Toronto proved that theory this year plus That fat LA guy taking all those Heavy weight belts this year. Rags to riches.