Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt. 10: Free Agency is in Free Flow

[Froob]

Hint: top 5 players arent itching to play here. Turning down very good talent to hope for that to change will just result in you wasting your time.

AD not a top 5 player? I wonder if Lakers flip him at the deadline for Hayward. Not a terrible get for them.

[DarkAzcura]

And putting together a team like you're proposing isn't wasting your time? Ooh...we win 55 games instead of 45 and then get knocked out in the second round. That's something to look forward to.

You think Kemba Beal Tatum is a second round exit? Are they playing 3 vs 5? Assuming this would occur next year it would also probably mean brown is traded(to get beal) and there could be an option to go for another star by trading Gordon and picks. Big hypothetical but probably doable?

Second round, WCF, who **** cares...taht team is not winning a title if those are the top 3 players.

I don’t see why not, especially if Tatum becomes a 20 PPG guy as a lot of us are hoping and expecting. 3 guys who average 20 PPG and space the floor the way they do, should be a championship caliber team.

We aren’t even talking about Hayward either, who could very well be the second or third guy on a championship team if he is healthy.

[MagicBagley18]

Where's the top 5 player you need to win a championship?

If he becomes available you still have Tatum as a trade piece and we have seen teams get creative using 3 team deals if you have a desirable player on the roster like Beal or kemba or Hayward, plus who says Tatum doesn’t become that top guy.

I’ve lurked here for a long time and posted for a while recently but I’ve seen and learned that no player who becomes available is going to be good enough for some people here (not you at all just in general). I’ve seen kawhi be called over rated and not top 10. PG not worth it. AD overrated and so on and so forth. No matter who it is people aren’t happy and no matter what fans overrate potential and the player on their team- that part is just human nature but it’s done a lot around here.

I think we need to realize the top 5 guys are locked up and not available right now and may not be for awhile. Tatum is a real commodity and trade piece and he’s not going anywhere. He’s good enough to get you in the door on any top guy. Not to mention we still own all our picks and have Hayward as an expiring or a piece to trade etc and some guys who could have potential and value.

I’ve always felt you need 1 top 5-10 guy and 2 other top 25 players to win it all and while we wouldn’t have any top 5 guys , we would have a very good team with 2 guys in the 15-20 range potentially 3 if Hayward is healthy and a young up and coming Tatum with Stevens coaching. All high character good locker rooms.

The league is really wide open, most importantly the east.

I really don't get the excitement about an "open" east. So we can win the east while it's weak. And lose in the Finals. Personally, I think a lot of people are willing to settle for a fun, "competitive" team (by which mean playoffs, not titles) after putting up with last year's crapfest. I'm not.

I’m actually against a “just” competing team and have often called the team without kyrie in the playoffs a few years ago a “little engine that could” fools gold team. It’s all about banners, the reason people are excited about not only an open east but league wide there’s no juggernauts. No “whose playing for 2nd”. I’m also all about superstars and was all in on AD and still wanted things to work out with kyrie.

But I’m against handing out max contracts and hoping it pans out. I’m also a fan of acquiring talent if you can and I think beal is a very good player who can get better and would thrive in Stevens system.

I truly believe a kemba/Beal/Hayward/Tatum core is good enough to compete for a championship if the current nba landscape if you fill out the roster the right way and I’m assuming Hayward comes back healthy and Tatum is what we think. Also having Tatum on the team still allows you a key piece to add that top 5 guy when or if he becomes available and as mentioned before all our picks and haywards expiring so there is some flexibility.

It’s clear they didn’t want to take the build around the young guys route when we signed kemba. If we can get more top end talent and keep Tatum the ultimate trade piece/ potential franchise raised superstar go for it.

[djFan71]

Hint: top 5 players arent itching to play here. Turning down very good talent to hope for that to change will just result in you wasting your time.

And putting together a team like you're proposing isn't wasting your time? Ooh...we win 55 games instead of 45 and then get knocked out in the second round. That's something to look forward to.

You think Kemba Beal Tatum is a second round exit? Are they playing 3 vs 5? Assuming this would occur next year it would also probably mean brown is traded(to get beal) and there could be an option to go for another star by trading Gordon and picks. Big hypothetical but probably doable?

You've used most of your good assets to get Beal, is the problem. If you get him super-cheap, absolutely. But, most likely you've spent Jaylen, Smart, MEM pick and another first to get him. Then what do you have left to trade with Gordon to get this next star? Either rookies who haven't had time to show anything behind Kemba/Beal/Tatum/Hayward or late 20s picks since we'd pretty pretty darn good.

[MagicBagley18]

And putting together a team like you're proposing isn't wasting your time? Ooh...we win 55 games instead of 45 and then get knocked out in the second round. That's something to look forward to.

You think Kemba Beal Tatum is a second round exit? Are they playing 3 vs 5? Assuming this would occur next year it would also probably mean brown is traded(to get beal) and there could be an option to go for another star by trading Gordon and picks. Big hypothetical but probably doable?

You've used most of your good assets to get Beal, is the problem. If you get him super-cheap, absolutely. But, most likely you've spent Jaylen, Smart, MEM pick and another first to get him. Then what do you have left to trade with Gordon to get this next star? Either rookies who haven't had time to show anything behind Kemba/Beal/Tatum/Hayward or late 20s picks since we'd pretty pretty darn good.

Well in the context of this next level guy if he becomes available- he would most likely cost Tatum no? who you could then pair with haywards expiring and picks no?

[Fencer reregistered]

Kemba/Beal/Tatum could only start together for a decent defensive team if there were a major shotblocking force at center. So that would have to be part of the plan.

[djFan71]

Spoiler:

If he becomes available you still have Tatum as a trade piece and we have seen teams get creative using 3 team deals if you have a desirable player on the roster like Beal or kemba or Hayward, plus who says Tatum doesn’t become that top guy.

I’ve lurked here for a long time and posted for a while recently but I’ve seen and learned that no player who becomes available is going to be good enough for some people here (not you at all just in general). I’ve seen kawhi be called over rated and not top 10. PG not worth it. AD overrated and so on and so forth. No matter who it is people aren’t happy and no matter what fans overrate potential and the player on their team- that part is just human nature but it’s done a lot around here.

I think we need to realize the top 5 guys are locked up and not available right now and may not be for awhile. Tatum is a real commodity and trade piece and he’s not going anywhere. He’s good enough to get you in the door on any top guy. Not to mention we still own all our picks and have Hayward as an expiring or a piece to trade etc and some guys who could have potential and value.

I’ve always felt you need 1 top 5-10 guy and 2 other top 25 players to win it all and while we wouldn’t have any top 5 guys , we would have a very good team with 2 guys in the 15-20 range potentially 3 if Hayward is healthy and a young up and coming Tatum with Stevens coaching. All high character good locker rooms.

The league is really wide open, most importantly the east.

I really don't get the excitement about an "open" east. So we can win the east while it's weak. And lose in the Finals. Personally, I think a lot of people are willing to settle for a fun, "competitive" team (by which mean playoffs, not titles) after putting up with last year's crapfest. I'm not.

I’m actually against a “just” competing team and have often called the team without kyrie in the playoffs a few years ago a “little engine that could” fools gold team. It’s all about banners, the reason people are excited about not only an open east but league wide there’s no juggernauts. No “whose playing for 2nd”. I’m also all about superstars and was all in on AD and still wanted things to work out with kyrie.

But I’m against handing out max contracts and hoping it pans out. I’m also a fan of acquiring talent if you can and I think beal is a very good player who can get better and would thrive in Stevens system.

I truly believe a kemba/Beal/Hayward/Tatum core is good enough to compete for a championship if the current nba landscape if you fill out the roster the right way and I’m assuming Hayward comes back healthy and Tatum is what we think. Also having Tatum on the team still allows you a key piece to add that top 5 guy when or if he becomes available and as mentioned before all our picks and haywards expiring so there is some flexibility.

It’s clear they didn’t want to take the build around the young guys route when we signed kemba. If we can get more top end talent and keep Tatum the ultimate trade piece/ potential franchise raised superstar go for it.

That's a great point. Why I wished we hadn't signed him, but I'll stop bringing that up soon enough...

I do think you need to look to upgrade to surround Kemba/Hayward/Tatum since that's the path you're on. It's what we didn't do with Kyrie while waiting for AD and we all know how that worked out. I'd still prefer going after a Turner/Isaac/Sabonis level guy first - they're just as (un)available as Beal for lower cost without the duplication. Or go all in and spend MEM/Brown/++ on Siakam if you can (you can't). I don't think Capela is as much a needle-mover, but admit I may be overreacting to this year's playoffs on that.

[MagicBagley18]

Spoiler:

I really don't get the excitement about an "open" east. So we can win the east while it's weak. And lose in the Finals. Personally, I think a lot of people are willing to settle for a fun, "competitive" team (by which mean playoffs, not titles) after putting up with last year's crapfest. I'm not.

I’m actually against a “just” competing team and have often called the team without kyrie in the playoffs a few years ago a “little engine that could” fools gold team. It’s all about banners, the reason people are excited about not only an open east but league wide there’s no juggernauts. No “whose playing for 2nd”. I’m also all about superstars and was all in on AD and still wanted things to work out with kyrie.

But I’m against handing out max contracts and hoping it pans out. I’m also a fan of acquiring talent if you can and I think beal is a very good player who can get better and would thrive in Stevens system.

I truly believe a kemba/Beal/Hayward/Tatum core is good enough to compete for a championship if the current nba landscape if you fill out the roster the right way and I’m assuming Hayward comes back healthy and Tatum is what we think. Also having Tatum on the team still allows you a key piece to add that top 5 guy when or if he becomes available and as mentioned before all our picks and haywards expiring so there is some flexibility.

It’s clear they didn’t want to take the build around the young guys route when we signed kemba. If we can get more top end talent and keep Tatum the ultimate trade piece/ potential franchise raised superstar go for it.

That's a great point. Why I wished we hadn't signed him, but I'll stop bringing that up soon enough...

I do think you need to look to upgrade to surround Kemba/Hayward/Tatum since that's the path you're on. It's what we didn't do with Kyrie while waiting for AD and we all know how that worked out. I'd still prefer going after a Turner/Isaac/Sabonis level guy first - they're just as (un)available as Beal for lower cost without the duplication. Or go all in and spend MEM/Brown/++ on Siakam if you can (you can't). I don't think Capela is as much a needle-mover, but admit I may be overreacting to this year's playoffs on that.

See and I think flipping brown for capela or sabonis is selling low

[djFan71]

You think Kemba Beal Tatum is a second round exit? Are they playing 3 vs 5? Assuming this would occur next year it would also probably mean brown is traded(to get beal) and there could be an option to go for another star by trading Gordon and picks. Big hypothetical but probably doable?

You've used most of your good assets to get Beal, is the problem. If you get him super-cheap, absolutely. But, most likely you've spent Jaylen, Smart, MEM pick and another first to get him. Then what do you have left to trade with Gordon to get this next star? Either rookies who haven't had time to show anything behind Kemba/Beal/Tatum/Hayward or late 20s picks since we'd pretty pretty darn good.

Well in the context of this next level guy if he becomes available- he would most likely cost Tatum no? who you could then pair with haywards expiring and picks no?

So, now you're down to just Kemba/Beal/New guy?

[djFan71]

Spoiler:

I’m actually against a “just” competing team and have often called the team without kyrie in the playoffs a few years ago a “little engine that could” fools gold team. It’s all about banners, the reason people are excited about not only an open east but league wide there’s no juggernauts. No “whose playing for 2nd”. I’m also all about superstars and was all in on AD and still wanted things to work out with kyrie.

But I’m against handing out max contracts and hoping it pans out. I’m also a fan of acquiring talent if you can and I think beal is a very good player who can get better and would thrive in Stevens system.

I truly believe a kemba/Beal/Hayward/Tatum core is good enough to compete for a championship if the current nba landscape if you fill out the roster the right way and I’m assuming Hayward comes back healthy and Tatum is what we think. Also having Tatum on the team still allows you a key piece to add that top 5 guy when or if he becomes available and as mentioned before all our picks and haywards expiring so there is some flexibility.

It’s clear they didn’t want to take the build around the young guys route when we signed kemba. If we can get more top end talent and keep Tatum the ultimate trade piece/ potential franchise raised superstar go for it.

That's a great point. Why I wished we hadn't signed him, but I'll stop bringing that up soon enough...

I do think you need to look to upgrade to surround Kemba/Hayward/Tatum since that's the path you're on. It's what we didn't do with Kyrie while waiting for AD and we all know how that worked out. I'd still prefer going after a Turner/Isaac/Sabonis level guy first - they're just as (un)available as Beal for lower cost without the duplication. Or go all in and spend MEM/Brown/++ on Siakam if you can (you can't). I don't think Capela is as much a needle-mover, but admit I may be overreacting to this year's playoffs on that.

See and I think flipping brown for capela or sabonis is selling low

I literally said no Capela. And, I didn't say I'd trade Jaylen straight for any of them - or include Jaylen at all (besides Siakam). I just gave a list of players I think you could acquire for a lot less than Beal that balance the roster more.

[Froob]

While up 30 with 3 minutes to go with the Lakers in town

“AD’s LEAVING”

*clap clap clap*

[MagicBagley18]

You've used most of your good assets to get Beal, is the problem. If you get him super-cheap, absolutely. But, most likely you've spent Jaylen, Smart, MEM pick and another first to get him. Then what do you have left to trade with Gordon to get this next star? Either rookies who haven't had time to show anything behind Kemba/Beal/Tatum/Hayward or late 20s picks since we'd pretty pretty darn good.

Well in the context of this next level guy if he becomes available- he would most likely cost Tatum no? who you could then pair with haywards expiring and picks no?

So, now you're down to just Kemba/Beal/New guy?

Isn’t this hypothetical new guy a top 5? mvp caliber ?

[Theocy]

You've used most of your good assets to get Beal, is the problem. If you get him super-cheap, absolutely. But, most likely you've spent Jaylen, Smart, MEM pick and another first to get him. Then what do you have left to trade with Gordon to get this next star? Either rookies who haven't had time to show anything behind Kemba/Beal/Tatum/Hayward or late 20s picks since we'd pretty pretty darn good.

Well in the context of this next level guy if he becomes available- he would most likely cost Tatum no? who you could then pair with haywards expiring and picks no?

So, now you're down to just Kemba/Beal/New guy?

A Beal who isn't interested in extending with wizards won't cost brown smart + mem pick. I would go with prob brown smart plus a crap pick?

We re talking about hypothetical. I don't think it's happening. We're probably focused on a good PF rather than a SG.

[klemen4]

So do we need a new thread?

Looks like we are set, at least till February trade deadline.

[djFan71]

Well in the context of this next level guy if he becomes available- he would most likely cost Tatum no? who you could then pair with haywards expiring and picks no?

So, now you're down to just Kemba/Beal/New guy?

Isn’t this hypothetical new guy a top 5? mvp caliber ?

lol, I don't know anymore man.

I'm not team hold out for top 5 guy. I'm team "we gotta try to improve around kemba since we signed him, but I think a big is a better way to go than Beal since he'd be redundant offensively, and our D would suffer and the cost to add a better quality big than we have now (to pair with Timelord) would be lower than it would be to add Beal and we would have more assets left in case some other player comes free".

And each deal would be evaluated separately based on which player (ie, I'm not sending the same package for Sabonis as I would for Turner or Isaac, etc). And you don't have to do it now. And, if you do trade for Beal, it lessens your ability to get a quality big since you've used a significant portion of your remaining assets on him.

And I understand why people could want Beal. It just doesn't make as much sense to me from a fit standpoint.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I think it’s good to remember that we had planned and wanted to be over the cap. If we’d folded Kyrie into the Kemba sign and trade and kept Horford, we might have kept Morris and even Baynes.. That would have opened up easier deals, like Morris/Jaylen for Beal, or Horford/Tatum for a better big.. Instead, we don’t have any big contracts to spare, and any deal we can make now will feel like a lateral move unless we bet on the right players ..

[Andrew McCeltic]

You could deal Jaylen to OKC for 1-2 2021 picks and Winslow, if he’s on the move..

[djFan71]

Well in the context of this next level guy if he becomes available- he would most likely cost Tatum no? who you could then pair with haywards expiring and picks no?

So, now you're down to just Kemba/Beal/New guy?

A Beal who isn't interested in extending with wizards won't cost brown smart + mem pick. I would go with prob brown smart plus a crap pick?

We re talking about hypothetical. I don't think it's happening. We're probably focused on a good PF rather than a SG.

It's definitely tempting at that price. But, I don't think it's realistic. Not until the summer at least, but then Brown is RFA which screws things.

[Disinformation]

So, now you're down to just Kemba/Beal/New guy?

Isn’t this hypothetical new guy a top 5? mvp caliber ?

lol, I don't know anymore man.

I'm not team hold out for top 5 guy. I'm team "we gotta try to improve around kemba since we signed him, but I think a big is a better way to go than Beal since he'd be redundant offensively, and our D would suffer and the cost to add a better quality big than we have now (to pair with Timelord) would be lower than it would be to add Beal and we would have more assets left in case some other player comes free".

And each deal would be evaluated separately based on which player (ie, I'm not sending the same package for Sabonis as I would for Turner or Isaac, etc). And you don't have to do it now. And, if you do trade for Beal, it lessens your ability to get a quality big since you've used a significant portion of your remaining assets on him.

And I understand why people could want Beal. It just doesn't make as much sense to me from a fit standpoint.

This is actually one of my main arguments against Beal that gets lost in my main arguments against the path the C's are taking.

[MagicBagley18]

Well this beal bs got us to page 100... mission accomplished