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Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:27 pm
by MagicBagley18
Andrew McCeltic wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:
But you also don’t want to trade away an Oladipo for an Ibaka..


I also don’t want to pay an ibaka 30 million....


Right - I meant, we shouldn’t give away a young player too soon to fill a need in the front court with someone who doesn’t have the same upside.

Best case, everything works out for once - Kanter defends ok, hits threes, Theis stays healthy, Poirier plays good NBA defense, Williams develops over the year.


No, I understand your point but the second Jaylen gets that contract he goes from a player who we are developing and hoping to take a jump to the next level to a player we EXPECT to take the jump to the he next level. I don’t like paying for hope and right now jaylen to me isn’t worth the money.

You don’t just give him up for anything but if you can get an established all star or all star level talent you do that IMO- not just anyone but someone who fits here and is still either in their prime or entering it.

Oladipo had an amazing year in 2018 and a good year in 2019 but he’s had injuries and is one his 3rd team, as good as he was in 2018 you can’t forget how disappointing he was before that

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:30 pm
by MagicBagley18
FlatearthZorro wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
Ernest wrote:
But how much would his max be? Guys coming off rookie contracts don't get those 30/35% of the cap deals that can be crushing to a teams cap.

He would have to really regress for signing him to not make sense. If he only makes slight progress this year, we still sign him because we can always trade him later. It's really not a problem because the free agent market will determine his value. If no one will sign him for his max, we can sign him for less. If teams are lining up to give him his max, then we know we can always trade him later.


I believe his rookie max is 29


You mean us offering him max or another team. Cause if it's us, it's more than 29, for other teams potentially handing him a deal as RFA I dunno the amount.


That’s even more to my point...I was unsure offering him 29 but if it’s more that even more cause for concern. In terms of him being an RFA he is most def going to be offered that many elsewhere - it’s a weak free agency next summer. I also don’t think just because other teams offer him the max and we match and then down the line want to trade him, it means his market is what it was before he earns the big payday.

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:15 pm
by FlatearthZorro
MagicBagley18 wrote:
FlatearthZorro wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
I believe his rookie max is 29


You mean us offering him max or another team. Cause if it's us, it's more than 29, for other teams potentially handing him a deal as RFA I dunno the amount.


That’s even more to my point...I was unsure offering him 29 but if it’s more that even more cause for concern. In terms of him being an RFA he is most def going to be offered that many elsewhere - it’s a weak free agency next summer. I also don’t think just because other teams offer him the max and we match and then down the line want to trade him, it means his market is what it was before he earns the big payday.


Yea, we can offer him around what 32-33 if I'm not mistaking as a max, if not a bit more. We will see. Will be an interesting year.

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:37 pm
by Triple7
FlatearthZorro wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
FlatearthZorro wrote:
You mean us offering him max or another team. Cause if it's us, it's more than 29, for other teams potentially handing him a deal as RFA I dunno the amount.


That’s even more to my point...I was unsure offering him 29 but if it’s more that even more cause for concern. In terms of him being an RFA he is most def going to be offered that many elsewhere - it’s a weak free agency next summer. I also don’t think just because other teams offer him the max and we match and then down the line want to trade him, it means his market is what it was before he earns the big payday.


Yea, we can offer him around what 32-33 if I'm not mistaking as a max, if not a bit more. We will see. Will be an interesting year.


Damn! I think i’ll get sick if we pay him that. Unless he takes a giant leap this season, which i doubt, considering he could be the 4th or maybe even a 5th option this year. Would have loved for him to develop into a Pippen type of player in the future, to form a solid trio with Kemba and JT, but his coming extension would be a problem for Danny. If we can sign him to around 20-23M
per would be ideal, but if he wants the max, then we find a deal or let him be a RFA.

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:07 pm
by FlatearthZorro
Triple7 wrote:
FlatearthZorro wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
That’s even more to my point...I was unsure offering him 29 but if it’s more that even more cause for concern. In terms of him being an RFA he is most def going to be offered that many elsewhere - it’s a weak free agency next summer. I also don’t think just because other teams offer him the max and we match and then down the line want to trade him, it means his market is what it was before he earns the big payday.


Yea, we can offer him around what 32-33 if I'm not mistaking as a max, if not a bit more. We will see. Will be an interesting year.


Damn! I think i’ll get sick if we pay him that. Unless he takes a giant leap this season, which i doubt, considering he could be the 4th or maybe even a 5th option this year. Would have loved for him to develop into a Pippen type of player in the future, to form a solid trio with Kemba and JT, but his coming extension would be a problem for Danny. If we can sign him to around 20-23M
per would be ideal, but if he wants the max, then we find a deal or let him be a RFA.


20 to 23 would be a steal. Jaylen would be dumb to sign that type of contract, cause I feel as if he might be able to get more cause of that super weak FA class we've been talking about for a while, but 20-23 would be darn nice. And Brown would automatically become a lot richer. :D

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:34 pm
by 5InOfLouisville
Ernest wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
Banks2Pierce wrote:Have seen Jaylen play about 250 games at this point and still have no idea whether I want to pay his next contract.


As have i....and the answer for me is no- unless he drastically improves and quickly. Young or not , if you have to ask that question after 250+ games- the answer is likely a no IMO.



the free agent market will determine his value. If no one will sign him for his max, we can sign him for less. If teams are lining up to give him his max, then we know we can always trade him later.



yup. ive been banging this drum for a while.

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:37 pm
by Disinformation
100proof wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:Image



I really like that top row and believe that can become one of if not the best top 3 in the league.

Bottom row is a different story though I love Marcus


Hayward at the 4. Oy!

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:39 pm
by MagicBagley18
5InOfLouisville wrote:
Ernest wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
As have i....and the answer for me is no- unless he drastically improves and quickly. Young or not , if you have to ask that question after 250+ games- the answer is likely a no IMO.



the free agent market will determine his value. If no one will sign him for his max, we can sign him for less. If teams are lining up to give him his max, then we know we can always trade him later.



yup. ive been banging this drum for a while.


just because a team is interested in him in free agency and willing to offer him max money it doesn't mean his trade market will be high because of that. the minute he signs a max deal, the perception of the player changes and especially if he isn't living up to the deal he just signed and it's usually a bad look if the team who just signed him to it- is trying to trade that player away so quickly into a newly signed contract.

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:58 pm
by 100proof
Disinformation wrote:
100proof wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:Image



I really like that top row and believe that can become one of if not the best top 3 in the league.

Bottom row is a different story though I love Marcus


Hayward at the 4. Oy!



yeah, and the defense with Kemba at the 1, Kanter at the 5?

Not sure if Hayward can defend the 4 either.

Quite skeptical of it all personally. I dont really like Kanter and Kemba in the same lineup.

IMO,

Kemba/Smart/Brown/Tatum/poirier as starters. 2 role players, one 2 way do it all player, 2 scorers, good defense, shooting, hustle, heart and balance.

Edwards/Langford/Hayward/Williams/Kanter - best bench lineup imo. Hayward makes them a good second unit.

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:20 pm
by Parliament10
100proof wrote:
Disinformation wrote:
100proof wrote:

I really like that top row and believe that can become one of if not the best top 3 in the league.

Bottom row is a different story though I love Marcus


Hayward at the 4. Oy!



yeah, and the defense with Kemba at the 1, Kanter at the 5?

Not sure if Hayward can defend the 4 either.

Quite skeptical of it all personally. I dont really like Kanter and Kemba in the same lineup.

IMO,

Kemba/Smart/Brown/Tatum/poirier as starters. 2 role players, one 2 way do it all player, 2 scorers, good defense, shooting, hustle, heart and balance.

Edwards/Langford/Hayward/Williams/Kanter - best bench lineup imo. Hayward makes them a good second unit.

I can't see either of these Units, starting out the year.

2019-20 Tentative Roster
Kemba - Brown - Hayward - Tatum - Kanter
Edwards - Smart - Ojeleye - Theis - Poirier

Wanamaker - Langford - G. Williams - R. Williams - (Fall)
Two-Ways = Strus; Waters

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:23 pm
by 100proof
Parliament10 wrote:
100proof wrote:
Disinformation wrote:
Hayward at the 4. Oy!



yeah, and the defense with Kemba at the 1, Kanter at the 5?

Not sure if Hayward can defend the 4 either.

Quite skeptical of it all personally. I dont really like Kanter and Kemba in the same lineup.

IMO,

Kemba/Smart/Brown/Tatum/poirier as starters. 2 role players, one 2 way do it all player, 2 scorers, good defense, shooting, hustle, heart and balance.

Edwards/Langford/Hayward/Williams/Kanter - best bench lineup imo. Hayward makes them a good second unit.

I can't see either of these Units, starting out the year.

2019-20 Tentative Roster
Kemba - Brown - Hayward - Tatum - Kanter
Edwards - Smart - Ojeleye - Theis - Poirier

Wanamaker - Langford - G. Williams - R. Williams - (Fall)
Two-Ways = Strus; Waters



You are probably right on the money with your proposed starting lineup, not sure how well it works, but its probably the one we see the most.

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:36 pm
by Parliament10
Should the Celtics take a Flyer on Michael Beasley? He could play our 4 (He's a 3-4.)
BUT, he's bounced around from about a dozen teams. Which makes me concerned about his locker room presence.

Read on Twitter

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:38 pm
by Darth Celtic
Parliament10 wrote:Should the Celtics take a Flyer on Michael Beasley? He could play our 4 (He's a 3-4.)
BUT, he's bounced around from about a dozen teams. Which makes me concerned about his locker room presence.

Read on Twitter

no. moving on.

the 15th spot is for Tacko.

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:43 pm
by zoyathedestroya
Parliament10 wrote:Should the Celtics take a Flyer on Michael Beasley? He could play our 4 (He's a 3-4.)
BUT, he's bounced around from about a dozen teams. Which makes me concerned about his locker room presence.

Read on Twitter

Image

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:51 pm
by Jurry
I am having a hard time figuring out how the defense isn't going to be rough this year. I know Brad has some magical tricks with this but there are a lot of soft spots and question marks in the personnel. If Jaylen and Tatum make defensive leaps, Rob is ready to contribute and you get more than spot minutes out of Semi or Grant we could have a shot at being average/above average. Theis and Hayward being quicker will go a long way too. Otherwise there looks like a lot of problematic combinations.

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:56 pm
by FlatearthZorro
Parliament10 wrote:Should the Celtics take a Flyer on Michael Beasley? He could play our 4 (He's a 3-4.)
BUT, he's bounced around from about a dozen teams. Which makes me concerned about his locker room presence.

Read on Twitter


Hard pass, dude's super talented, but he's always had some mental issues he hasn't overcome, and his b-ball IQ is low AF, and we don't need another 3-4 on the team, especially one who can't defend.

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:57 pm
by FlatearthZorro
Jurry wrote:I am having a hard time figuring out how the defense isn't going to be rough this year. I know Brad has some magical tricks with this but there are a lot of soft spots and question marks in the personnel. If Jaylen and Tatum make defensive leaps, Rob is ready to contribute and you get more than spot minutes out of Semi or Grant we could have a shot at being average/above average. Theis and Hayward being quicker will go a long way too. Otherwise there looks like a lot of problematic combinations.


Brown, Smart, Tatum are gonna have to step up. Then you gonna have to hope Kanter puts in the effort. I have faith in Theis playing solid D, he's been statistically good on D since arriving in Boston. Gordon has been an average defender for his career.

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:25 pm
by Jurry
FlatearthZorro wrote:
Jurry wrote:I am having a hard time figuring out how the defense isn't going to be rough this year. I know Brad has some magical tricks with this but there are a lot of soft spots and question marks in the personnel. If Jaylen and Tatum make defensive leaps, Rob is ready to contribute and you get more than spot minutes out of Semi or Grant we could have a shot at being average/above average. Theis and Hayward being quicker will go a long way too. Otherwise there looks like a lot of problematic combinations.


Brown, Smart, Tatum are gonna have to step up. Then you gonna have to hope Kanter puts in the effort. I have faith in Theis playing solid D, he's been statistically good on D since arriving in Boston. Gordon has been an average defender for his career.


I think Kanter can put in effort he just has really slow feet on D. Smart is a given he's going to be the defensive leader and voice, definitely a lot is on Brown and Tatum. We mostly talk about their offensive numbers in having breakout years but the D is just as important (even more important towards team success). As much as Gordon was inconsistent offensively last year he got targeted and abused on defense. He didn't have the lateral quicks or ups to cut off lanes or make the shooter uncomfortable and now we're looking to put him more at the 4 which could be an issue in a league where 4's are so quick long and explosive. But I have no idea where he's at physically right now so we'll see. Definitely need some established roles out of the fringe guys to pull it together. One thing about Brad is he's more comfortable yanking guys for defensive lapses than the other side of the court so maybe some roles will be shaped based more from the defensive end.

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:41 pm
by Ernest
MagicBagley18 wrote:
5InOfLouisville wrote:
Ernest wrote:

the free agent market will determine his value. If no one will sign him for his max, we can sign him for less. If teams are lining up to give him his max, then we know we can always trade him later.



yup. ive been banging this drum for a while.


just because a team is interested in him in free agency and willing to offer him max money it doesn't mean his trade market will be high because of that. the minute he signs a max deal, the perception of the player changes and especially if he isn't living up to the deal he just signed and it's usually a bad look if the team who just signed him to it- is trying to trade that player away so quickly into a newly signed contract.


Teams wanting to sign Brown to big money and potential trade partners for him are def different things. No one is saying that a team who is willing to sign him is later also willing to trade assets for him But it gauges the interest. What else could they go on? How good do our guy think he is? How good do other teams think he is?

Re: Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:42 pm
by MagicBagley18
Ernest wrote:
MagicBagley18 wrote:
5InOfLouisville wrote:

yup. ive been banging this drum for a while.


just because a team is interested in him in free agency and willing to offer him max money it doesn't mean his trade market will be high because of that. the minute he signs a max deal, the perception of the player changes and especially if he isn't living up to the deal he just signed and it's usually a bad look if the team who just signed him to it- is trying to trade that player away so quickly into a newly signed contract.


Teams wanting to sign Brown to big money and potential trade partners for him are def different things. No one is saying that a team who is willing to sign him is later also willing to trade assets for him But it gauges the interest. What else could they go on? How good do our guy think he is? How good do other teams think he is?



My point is I don’t want to be the team to pay him his max and HOPE he pans out. I don’t wanna be the team to over pay him.