Celtics General Offseason Thread Pt 11: Kanter believe you thought of former player

[Asian Celtic]

Whose our 1b to zoya's 1A?

[LewisnotMiller]

No one thinks GH can play the 4 but IIRC, he played more 4 his last season in Utah than the 3. I also remember his numbers being better at the 4, I think both offensively and defensively. Don't underestimate his ability to play it and it's not like he'd have to do it all game, probably around 12-15m a game. He's not even that small in comparison to PF anyway, he's not even out sized by most C these days, just about a handful of bigs that play a lot of mins would be too much for him, he certainly could switch and survive. If GH returns to form or close to it, he will surprise a lot of people with how solid he is defensively.

Nah...he played more three, and his numbers were better at the three. But he did play a good amount of 4, that's certainly true. And his second to last season he played even more 4, and had roughly comparable numbers at the 3 and 4.

(Note : that's a bit subjective, depends what numbers you're interested in)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01/lineups/2016


My concern is more that I think him at 4 with Gobert...heck, even Favours...behind him is a different consideration to him with Kanter behind him.

Don't worry about the 4 he has to guard, we'd have a grand total of zero help defence.

Thanks for the info. So he is as good either way? I'd play him at the 4. I get that he played with better guys on the back end but I also have faith that CBS will put out at least an average defensive team. We have had a really good one every season and it didn't matter who we had. If we manage a top 5-10 offense with a 10 or so defense (we have been excellent his entire career), we will be good. IT4 was the worst defender in the league and we still had a solid defense (I think even before Al). Kanter isn't good (probably will be better with focus), but he isn't the worst in the league, every other starter will be solid to very good.

I'm going to die on this hill until I see it not work. He's just not going to have to do it a lot to matter much and when he does, people will be surprised. If we have a matchup that would exploit him, CBS hasn't been scared to change things up, we will just start someone else those games. Can't wait!

I'm sceptical, but I'd go that way as well. The reward is worth the risk.

[Triple7]

I don’t think Tatum is quick enough to guard 2’s. Ditto for Hayward. And Tatum is not strong enough to play the 4 for more than spot minutes. Ditto Hayward. They are both 3’s. I wish we would have addressed the 4 position. In my mind, only Brown and Smart should be playing 2 other than spot duty by Tatum or Hayward, or if Langford miraculously proves worthy of minutes as a rookie.

I really don’t want Tatum or Hayward playing out of position at the 4, but it looks like that’s what is going to happen. I hope it doesn’t bite us in the ass.

I think we can’t keep both tatum and hayward. They have the same position. They both can’t play the 2 and the 4, other than spot minutes, and benching the other guy won’t be better for them and the team. Brown and hayward plus tons of picks for beal and bryant?

It's a shame that one of them ought to come off the bench since they both play the 3, but I suspect that Brad will start them both anyway. I'm very curious to see how Hayward looks this year. Tbh, I didn't watch him when he was in Utah unless they were playing us, so I don't really know how good he was, but since he made an all-star team, he must have been good, so I'd like to get a good look at him this year before making any decisions about trading anyone. Basically, I just want to see how the whole team looks before making trades. I suspect we'll need a beefier 4 man, but we'll see, and for the record, I don't regard Bob as a 4. He plays strictly like a 5 at this point. Once again, we're a little unbalanced to start the year.

That said, though, I can't wait for the new season. I look forward to being able to like my team again.

Hayward and Tatum’s natural position is the 3, and forcing them to play the 4, won’t bring out their best. What worries me is that most teams still has a bigger and stronger 4 compared to hayward and tatum. Guys like horford, blake, thad young, giannis, AD, siakam, draymond, heck even randle, portis, or the morris brothers can still pound them inside while having a decent perimeter shooting. I don’t think it is ideal for hayward or tatum to guard them down low. It wouldn’t be fair to them. If we double, that would leave other players open. Let’s see how the season and matchups goes. Would love to keep both hayward and tatum.

[claycarver]

It's funny how this board reverts back to the 2, 3, 4 mindset. Ball handler, wings, swings, bigs. Isn't that what coach said?

The reason Brad generally puts out good defensive teams is that he isn't stuck these categories. He flexes as he needs to with defensive assignments in mind.

Also why I never see Brad letting Smart go. A guy that can guard 1-4 in a pinch isn't going anywhere.

[greenroom31]

It's funny how this board reverts back to the 2, 3, 4 mindset. Ball handler, wings, swings, bigs. Isn't that what coach said?

The reason Brad generally puts out good defensive teams is that he isn't stuck these categories. He flexes as he needs to with defensive assignments in mind.

Also why I never see Brad letting Smart go. A guy that can guard 1-4 in a pinch isn't going anywhere.

Forget about positions and just look at personnel and matchups. The top two teams in the East (at least on paper) are Milwaukee and Philly. The question is how do we match up against a lineup of:

Simmons / Richardson / Harris/ Horford / Embiid

Richardson is 6'6 and their shortest starter. Harris, Simmons and Horford are all 6'9 or 6'10 and Embiid is a monster. So throw positions or the wings/swings/bigs crap out the window and just tell me who is guarding those guys? Kemba is going to have to guard Richardson, with some combo of Smart, Jaylen, Tatum and Hayward guarding Harris, Simmons and Horford. I'd probably go with Jaylen on Simmons, Tatum on Harris and Hayward on Horford, but that doesn't make me feel wonderful. Also, it leaves basically no one on our roster who can realistically guard Embiid.

Now move over to Milwaukee who will field a lineup of:

Bledsoe / Wes Matthews? / Middleton / Giannis / BLopez

This is a bit easier to figure out, with Kemba taking Bledsoe, Jaylen taking Matthews, and Tatum or Hayward taking Middleton but who the hell guards Giannis? Now I get it, no one in the league can really guard him individually, but the point is we don't match up well. Then we have to put a big out there who can defend the 3pt line against Brook which again puts us in a tough spot.

[Triple7]

It's funny how this board reverts back to the 2, 3, 4 mindset. Ball handler, wings, swings, bigs. Isn't that what coach said?

The reason Brad generally puts out good defensive teams is that he isn't stuck these categories. He flexes as he needs to with defensive assignments in mind.

Also why I never see Brad letting Smart go. A guy that can guard 1-4 in a pinch isn't going anywhere.

Forget about positions and just look at personnel and matchups. The top two teams in the East (at least on paper) are Milwaukee and Philly. The question is how do we match up against a lineup of:

Simmons / Richardson / Harris/ Horford / Embiid

Richardson is 6'6 and their shortest starter. Harris, Simmons and Horford are all 6'9 or 6'10 and Embiid is a monster. So throw positions or the wings/swings/bigs crap out the window and just tell me who is guarding those guys? Kemba is going to have to guard Richardson, with some combo of Smart, Jaylen, Tatum and Hayward guarding Harris, Simmons and Horford. I'd probably go with Jaylen on Simmons, Tatum on Harris and Hayward on Horford, but that doesn't make me feel wonderful. Also, it leaves basically no one on our roster who can realistically guard Embiid.

Now move over to Milwaukee who will field a lineup of:

Bledsoe / Wes Matthews? / Middleton / Giannis / BLopez

This is a bit easier to figure out, with Kemba taking Bledsoe, Jaylen taking Matthews, and Tatum or Hayward taking Middleton but who the hell guards Giannis? Now I get it, no one in the league can really guard him individually, but the point is we don't match up well. Then we have to put a big out there who can defend the 3pt line against Brook which again puts us in a tough spot.

We have to field a bigger lineup against the sixers. Maybe kemba, brown/hayward, tatum, then maybe theis or RW at the 4 and Kanter. If they use Horford down low, i think Kanter can guard him, and RW would guard embiid inside. If they use Al for a pick n pop, then maybe theis can be used to guard him in the perimeter. Brad needs to be creative against the sixers. I think we can matchup better with the bucks. We just need to clog the paint with bigs, to at least make it hard for giannis. Let him take the outside shot. We don’t need to put a big out there to guard brook, our wings can switch out to guard him. Some of the problems we had with giannis is that, even if he misses, he still gets to follow up his own miss because he’s bigger than morris and theis.The raps had ibaka/gasol and siakam to bother and body up giannis. That’s what we need to do. If he misses, we must ensure we get the rebound. It would be a tough task, but im excited to see how we fair against those two teams.

[Taget]

Zoya entering the new thread with 182 new S&T ideas to share, only to see us trading him.

Spoiler:

Like Antoine Walker, Zoya is a high volume poster. We should target a poster with a higher efficiency rating and perhaps get a few draft picks out of it. Make the call Danny!

[DarkAzcura]

It's funny how this board reverts back to the 2, 3, 4 mindset. Ball handler, wings, swings, bigs. Isn't that what coach said?

The reason Brad generally puts out good defensive teams is that he isn't stuck these categories. He flexes as he needs to with defensive assignments in mind.

Also why I never see Brad letting Smart go. A guy that can guard 1-4 in a pinch isn't going anywhere.

Forget about positions and just look at personnel and matchups. The top two teams in the East (at least on paper) are Milwaukee and Philly. The question is how do we match up against a lineup of:

Simmons / Richardson / Harris/ Horford / Embiid

Richardson is 6'6 and their shortest starter. Harris, Simmons and Horford are all 6'9 or 6'10 and Embiid is a monster. So throw positions or the wings/swings/bigs crap out the window and just tell me who is guarding those guys? Kemba is going to have to guard Richardson, with some combo of Smart, Jaylen, Tatum and Hayward guarding Harris, Simmons and Horford. I'd probably go with Jaylen on Simmons, Tatum on Harris and Hayward on Horford, but that doesn't make me feel wonderful. Also, it leaves basically no one on our roster who can realistically guard Embiid.

Now move over to Milwaukee who will field a lineup of:

Bledsoe / Wes Matthews? / Middleton / Giannis / BLopez

This is a bit easier to figure out, with Kemba taking Bledsoe, Jaylen taking Matthews, and Tatum or Hayward taking Middleton but who the hell guards Giannis? Now I get it, no one in the league can really guard him individually, but the point is we don't match up well. Then we have to put a big out there who can defend the 3pt line against Brook which again puts us in a tough spot.

You should be asking the inverse also. How is Philly going to guard the perimeter with Harris, Horford, and Embiid? They could get ripped apart.

[Wes-J]

Thought last season was a challenge to find cohesion?

First off I don't know if there was ever a time where Tatum, Brown, and Hayward shared the floor together except that one first game. I'm like really nervous about how they'll work it out while trying to add a new scorer to the mix, and not just any scorer. Then there is Tatum and Brown. Somebody has to convince me these two have some chemistry because I've never seen it. I'm not sure they're for one another on the same page trying to build a winner. Don't just blame Brown, Tatum is just as much to blame for wanting to be the man and show his ass, much to the detriment of the game.

As difficult as last season was this one won't be a walk in the park for CBS, but hopefully gone personalities will help inspire change for unity.

No one expects much. There's this feel in the masses like the Celtics are a joke. Hope they take this personally and put aside the damn egos.

[williambh3]

Did I miss the news that Zoya is holding out of training camp?

[31to6]

Did I miss the news that Zoya is holding out of training camp?

Multiple sauces hearing they want a new deal.

[Dogen]

Hmm good question

Do we really want to trade Zoya for Beal though?... I think that is an overpay and i'd draw the line.

What has Beal done on this board?? How many sign and trade scenarios has he came up with??

Zoya got dat extra 2” of wingspan on Beal too. No contest.

[BakersDozen]

For people using the mobile app can we get a recap of what those links were about on the first couple pages?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Banks2Pierce]

How is Philly going to guard the perimeter with Harris, Horford, and Embiid?

Well, a lot of their issues can be solved by having Embiid in waiting at the rim. Horford and Harris will be able to make more perimeter gambles with him behind them and Boston won't have shooting at the 5 to punish him. If the solution to that is to shoot a lot of midrange Js, Philly has already edged that part of the game. Our issues are more of the "I hope Embiid doesn't piledrive Kanter into the rim" variety.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

For people using the mobile app can we get a recap of what those links were about on the first couple pages?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Do yourself a favor and just surf realgm from a mobile browser. That app is horrible. Probably taking up at least a GB of space on your phone, and that's just the app's cache.

[Shak_Celts]

It's funny how this board reverts back to the 2, 3, 4 mindset. Ball handler, wings, swings, bigs. Isn't that what coach said?

The reason Brad generally puts out good defensive teams is that he isn't stuck these categories. He flexes as he needs to with defensive assignments in mind.

Also why I never see Brad letting Smart go. A guy that can guard 1-4 in a pinch isn't going anywhere.

Forget about positions and just look at personnel and matchups. The top two teams in the East (at least on paper) are Milwaukee and Philly. The question is how do we match up against a lineup of:

Simmons / Richardson / Harris/ Horford / Embiid

Richardson is 6'6 and their shortest starter. Harris, Simmons and Horford are all 6'9 or 6'10 and Embiid is a monster. So throw positions or the wings/swings/bigs crap out the window and just tell me who is guarding those guys? Kemba is going to have to guard Richardson, with some combo of Smart, Jaylen, Tatum and Hayward guarding Harris, Simmons and Horford. I'd probably go with Jaylen on Simmons, Tatum on Harris and Hayward on Horford, but that doesn't make me feel wonderful. Also, it leaves basically no one on our roster who can realistically guard Embiid.

Now move over to Milwaukee who will field a lineup of:

Bledsoe / Wes Matthews? / Middleton / Giannis / BLopez

This is a bit easier to figure out, with Kemba taking Bledsoe, Jaylen taking Matthews, and Tatum or Hayward taking Middleton but who the hell guards Giannis? Now I get it, no one in the league can really guard him individually, but the point is we don't match up well. Then we have to put a big out there who can defend the 3pt line against Brook which again puts us in a tough spot.

Not only can few people credibly defend Giannis, we don't have a guy on our team to insert into the lineup instead of Hayward that could (OK maybe Semi), might as well put out the best offensive unit! I have already said, CBS will switch things up if he needs to, we don't have to stick to one thing at all times.

AD/Cousins and Embiid/Al is a worry at the moment but that's because those duos (healthy) are going to be a load to most teams, we will have to try EVERYTHING anyway. In those games, CBS will probably use a different lineup.

There is another reason I'm pretty confident in thinking that 5 will start most games, JB and GH are up for money, if we want to keep them they aren't coming off the bench. Hayward especially, because he won't be forced because of RFA. He can move on free and clear. JB may not be a star but he could force his way out or cause dissension and I don't think that would be good, all because he wasn't given a fair shake because of team construction. Last season was bad, I can't imagine how it would be when you ask one of them to come off the bench for someone like Theis, TL or Poirier. Not every game.

We'll see but I'm not convinced that isn't the starting lineup. People said the same last season and CBS still thought GH could do it. The season didn't prove him wrong, chemistry, returning from injury and jealousy did. We stunk even when he wasn't starting. I think it will be try it and change it if it fails.

BTW even Kanter thinks that's going to be the starting lineup.

[SLCceltic]

It's funny how this board reverts back to the 2, 3, 4 mindset. Ball handler, wings, swings, bigs. Isn't that what coach said?

The reason Brad generally puts out good defensive teams is that he isn't stuck these categories. He flexes as he needs to with defensive assignments in mind.

Also why I never see Brad letting Smart go. A guy that can guard 1-4 in a pinch isn't going anywhere.

Forget about positions and just look at personnel and matchups. The top two teams in the East (at least on paper) are Milwaukee and Philly. The question is how do we match up against a lineup of:

Simmons / Richardson / Harris/ Horford / Embiid

Richardson is 6'6 and their shortest starter. Harris, Simmons and Horford are all 6'9 or 6'10 and Embiid is a monster. So throw positions or the wings/swings/bigs crap out the window and just tell me who is guarding those guys? Kemba is going to have to guard Richardson, with some combo of Smart, Jaylen, Tatum and Hayward guarding Harris, Simmons and Horford. I'd probably go with Jaylen on Simmons, Tatum on Harris and Hayward on Horford, but that doesn't make me feel wonderful. Also, it leaves basically no one on our roster who can realistically guard Embiid.

Now move over to Milwaukee who will field a lineup of:

Bledsoe / Wes Matthews? / Middleton / Giannis / BLopez

This is a bit easier to figure out, with Kemba taking Bledsoe, Jaylen taking Matthews, and Tatum or Hayward taking Middleton but who the hell guards Giannis? Now I get it, no one in the league can really guard him individually, but the point is we don't match up well. Then we have to put a big out there who can defend the 3pt line against Brook which again puts us in a tough spot.

You should be asking the inverse also. How is Philly going to guard the perimeter with Harris, Horford, and Embiid? They could get ripped apart.

....ya and Brad will counter w Enes rwIII Grant, even semi, depending on matchup/how hot or cold embiid Gannis or horford may get ....all fluid

[Darth Celtic]

Well, Kanter is official, and unless they didn't announce it yet, they didn't use the remaining cap space.

[Parliament10]

Well, Kanter is official, and unless they didn't announce it yet, they didn't use the remaining cap space.

Read on Twitter

[NuckyPowell]

Nobody much talks about the guy, but I'm curious about how Poirier will be able to defend the low post. Wonder how close to what Baynes gave us he can give against the league's behemoths. Pretty sure that's one of the main reasons he was brought in.