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Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:27 pm
by CeltsfanSinceBirth
Roddy wrote:
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
Roddy wrote:

He is not an elite defender at all. Probably above average at best.



And yet hasn't improved that much...



With a 31% 3Pts%, he can't be considered has a 3 and D guy.



That would not be a good sign for our season if Semi has a bigger role...


Again, you are complaining about a guy that played in 56 games and only got 10mpg. He was 5th in the rotation amongst wings. What were you really expecting from him? Was he supposed to usurp one of Hayward/Tatum/Brown/Morris last season?

If Ojeleye was as worthless as some of you make him out to be, don't you think Ainge would have cut him already when he was trying to carve out cap space? His contract was non-guaranteed if he was waived before July 1st.


Nobody is complaining. But saying that this guy could have a bigger role and be a 3D player is giving him too much credit.

And who knows what Ainge think, maybe Semi contract will be use in a trade soon.

Once again, if he was an elite defender, Stevens would have give him more than 10mpg.


Knowing what we now know about last year, where people were upset about Hayward getting minutes - who exactly were you going to play Semi ahead of? Tatum, Brown, Morris, or Hayward?

The only time Ojeleye got playing time last season was either due to injuries, someone in foul trouble or during garbage time. Expecting him to break the rotation and take minutes ahead of guys in front of him was an unreasonable expectation.

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:51 pm
by Roddy
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
Roddy wrote:
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
Again, you are complaining about a guy that played in 56 games and only got 10mpg. He was 5th in the rotation amongst wings. What were you really expecting from him? Was he supposed to usurp one of Hayward/Tatum/Brown/Morris last season?

If Ojeleye was as worthless as some of you make him out to be, don't you think Ainge would have cut him already when he was trying to carve out cap space? His contract was non-guaranteed if he was waived before July 1st.


Nobody is complaining. But saying that this guy could have a bigger role and be a 3D player is giving him too much credit.

And who knows what Ainge think, maybe Semi contract will be use in a trade soon.

Once again, if he was an elite defender, Stevens would have give him more than 10mpg.


Knowing what we now know about last year, where people were upset about Hayward getting minutes - who exactly were you going to play Semi ahead of? Tatum, Brown, Morris, or Hayward?

The only time Ojeleye got playing time last season was either due to injuries, someone in foul trouble or during garbage time. Expecting him to break the rotation and take minutes ahead of guys in front of him was an unreasonable expectation.


Of course he was not going to break the rotation with Jaylen, Jayson, Gordon and Morris here.
But Morris is gone this summer, Gordon could be back in better shape and play more minutes.

Both Jaylen and Gordon were playing 26 mpg last season. They could end up to 30 mpg this season.
We will also have to integrate Grant Williams and Romeo to the rotation, it means less minutes available.

Semi is a 12th man at best, and a trade asset if necessary.

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:17 am
by grindtime22
Semi will be in the league. I don't buy that he can't contribute on a contender. I think he absolutely can. It would just have to be in a more top heavy team with clearly defined roles. I'm not sure that is going to happen here. He absolutely had a place if we swung an AD type deal and lost multiple wing players.

He would be great in Houston with Harden ball.

Right now, there isn't enough of a sample to know what kind of shooter we are talking about. 89 3 point attempts is all we saw last year. You swing 3 of those and suddenly he is into respectability. He needs consistent playing time to find out. You can say look, he is only a 61% free throw shooter. He just isn't a good shooter, period. He only has 80 career free throw attempts though. He had 219 his last year in college and hit them at 78.5%.

I still think he can shoot, but I've been wrong many times before.

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:24 pm
by sam_I_am
There must be a reason Brad insists on playing Semi even though the team’s +/- tanks every time he goes out there. I just don’t see his value to Celtics when we have so many guys at his position that make a positive contribution and he so rarely does. Despite his ability to defend, he is so poor offensively it more than negates his contributions defensively. I am guessing that the coach’s believe his 3 point shot is so close there will be a break through making him a valuable bench player.

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:31 pm
by ballup
Semi is an on ball man defender and really not much else. He isn't by any means a slasher nor a spot up shooter. He's is going to be 25 next season and has a long way to go before he is a serviceable rotation player. He'll get minutes simply because he knows how to exist in the NBA, but if Grant Williams get acclimated, Semi may stay as the situational type

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Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:59 pm
by greenroom31
He was a victim of the minutes situation last year with Morris, Jaylen, Tatum and Hayward all ahead of him in the rotation. Despite that he apparently worked his ass off and kept a positive attitude.

Still has potential to be a great 3 and D player IMO, and this year we will see. With Horford and Morris out of the rotation at the 4, he has his chance to be a rotation guy.

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:03 pm
by 24istheLAW
sam_I_am wrote:There must be a reason Brad insists on playing Semi even though the team’s +/- tanks every time he goes out there. I just don’t see his value to Celtics when we have so many guys at his position that make a positive contribution and he so rarely does. Despite his ability to defend, he is so poor offensively it more than negates his contributions defensively. I am guessing that the coach’s believe his 3 point shot is so close there will be a break through making him a valuable bench player.


He hits WIDE OPEN 3s fine. But his accuracy totally craters if there's a closeout.

The thing is, its not that he isn't a slasher. He isn't even a ball mover. He gets the ball and he shuffles to the top of the key to hand it off to someone else. You need a skill level above Joel Anthony from your 6'6"/6'7" wing players.

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:44 pm
by Jurry
sam_I_am wrote:There must be a reason Brad insists on playing Semi even though the team’s +/- tanks every time he goes out there.


Semi's plus/minus in games he played significant (like more than 12) minutes last year was overwhelmingly positive. I don't know where you get your stats from but you might want to check the expiration date on those.

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:47 pm
by Taget
I felt better with him on the floor last season. Did his job within the system in a year when everyone saw themselves as the star rather than a role player. However he's not notable enough at anything not to be very replaceable. Which means training camp is going to be serious business for him. If other players can outperform him he may find himself out a roster spot.

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:05 pm
by AKFO
If all three of Jaylen, Jayson, and Gordon end up starting, Ojeleye could very well be the third player off the bench, after Smart and Rob/Kanter. I don’t think Edwards comes in until Kemba sits.

I think Semi will be ready for the season.

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:42 pm
by Gomes3PC
Jurry wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:There must be a reason Brad insists on playing Semi even though the team’s +/- tanks every time he goes out there.


Semi's plus/minus in games he played significant (like more than 12) minutes last year was overwhelmingly positive. I don't know where you get your stats from but you might want to check the expiration date on those.

Cutting it that way is selection bias though. The games he plays more in, more likely than not represent matchups that suit him better than the games he didn't play much.

I like Semi, but hard to give him more than 10 MPG until he can show he can do more than just body up a guy 1v1. If he can nail corner 3s at a high rate, or hit the glass, or cut well off the ball for buckets, his role could expand, but short of that I think Grant already offers more than him.

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:14 pm
by Jurry
Gomes3PC wrote:
Jurry wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:There must be a reason Brad insists on playing Semi even though the team’s +/- tanks every time he goes out there.


Semi's plus/minus in games he played significant (like more than 12) minutes last year was overwhelmingly positive. I don't know where you get your stats from but you might want to check the expiration date on those.

Cutting it that way is selection bias though. The games he plays more in, more likely than not represent matchups that suit him better than the games he didn't play much.


No need to even go that far. Sir just made a claim that was either disingenuous or untrue. I'm not heavy into weighting the majority of modern or box score stats in this sport but this one bears out on paper and the eye test. May not have even been be about Semi, he was a welcome oasis in a desert of me-first agendas last year. Stands to reason if you put someone on the court who is playing for the team and take someone off who is only looking to call their own number, the team is generally going to play better basketball as a result.

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:30 pm
by djFan71
Spoiler:
Roddy wrote:
CeltsfanSinceBirth wrote:
Roddy wrote:

He is not an elite defender at all. Probably above average at best.



And yet hasn't improved that much...



With a 31% 3Pts%, he can't be considered has a 3 and D guy.



That would not be a good sign for our season if Semi has a bigger role...


Again, you are complaining about a guy that played in 56 games and only got 10mpg. He was 5th in the rotation amongst wings. What were you really expecting from him? Was he supposed to usurp one of Hayward/Tatum/Brown/Morris last season?

If Ojeleye was as worthless as some of you make him out to be, don't you think Ainge would have cut him already when he was trying to carve out cap space? His contract was non-guaranteed if he was waived before July 1st.


Nobody is complaining. But saying that this guy could have a bigger role and be a 3D player is giving him too much credit.

And who knows what Ainge think, maybe Semi contract will be use in a trade soon.

Once again, if he was an elite defender, Stevens would have give him more than 10mpg.

Agree with everything Roddy said. No hate, but also no expectations. Semi seems like a good guy, hard worker, fine as an end of the roster guy. But both Williamses, Theis, our 3 wings and Langford should be well ahead of him for PT.

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:31 pm
by canman1971
If a thread is started with "The Forgotten"...there is usually a wonderful, easy reason for it.

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:14 am
by sam_I_am
Jurry wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:There must be a reason Brad insists on playing Semi even though the team’s +/- tanks every time he goes out there.


Semi's plus/minus in games he played significant (like more than 12) minutes last year was overwhelmingly positive. I don't know where you get your stats from but you might want to check the expiration date on those.


In the season before last when Semi played a lot he had one of worst +/- in NBA and worst on team at -182. I stand corrected however in that he was better last year, but he played in a lot less games and less minutes per game.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus_minus_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&output=total&is_playoffs=N&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&year_min=2018&year_max=2018&team_id=BOS&age_min=0&age_max=99&order_by=diff_pts

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:10 am
by ballup
24istheLAW wrote:
sam_I_am wrote:There must be a reason Brad insists on playing Semi even though the team’s +/- tanks every time he goes out there. I just don’t see his value to Celtics when we have so many guys at his position that make a positive contribution and he so rarely does. Despite his ability to defend, he is so poor offensively it more than negates his contributions defensively. I am guessing that the coach’s believe his 3 point shot is so close there will be a break through making him a valuable bench player.


He hits WIDE OPEN 3s fine. But his accuracy totally craters if there's a closeout.

The thing is, its not that he isn't a slasher. He isn't even a ball mover. He gets the ball and he shuffles to the top of the key to hand it off to someone else. You need a skill level above Joel Anthony from your 6'6"/6'7" wing players.

70% of his 3 pointers are wide open, he only hits 32% on those

https://stats.nba.com/player/1628400/shots-dash/?sort=FG3A&dir=1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:44 am
by GregB
ballup wrote:Semi is an on ball man defender and really not much else. He isn't by any means a slasher nor a spot up shooter. He's is going to be 25 next season and has a long way to go before he is a serviceable rotation player. He'll get minutes simply because he knows how to exist in the NBA, but if Grant Williams get acclimated, Semi may stay as the situational type

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He was a late bloomer in college. A lot of his issues are slowing down the game. He plays too out of control at times.

But I felt like he played much better down the stretch last year. He will need to improve his 3pt shooting consistently next year but I think he carves out a roll as the second wing off the bench.

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:16 am
by BfB
darrendaye wrote:I'm one of the few voices in the wind on the board on the topic. At his likely max, he's a Jae Crowder impact level guy. His work with Hanlen didn't result in improved numbers from 3pt territory. Until he shows results there, he doesn't have a standout skill that will pop in counting stats. But if you watched him last year, he showed very good progress on offense in terms of activity off the ball and awareness to find open gaps or opening passing lanes. He also showed more confidence in handling the ball and more attempts at driving to the rim. He improved to have a positive assist to turnover ratio despite playing fewer minutes and in a season marred by selfish play and team dysfunction.

He doesn't make enough plays on the ball defensively. I would qualify his lateral quickness as elite level for his size. His reaction times aren't on the Marcus Smart level, but he's got a great stance typically and he stays well connected through contact. Not sure what those weighing in negatively about his defense are using as their scale, but he, to me, does a good job of denying guys getting where they want to go with the ball. But from there, his length isn't a significant hindrance if being used as a 3/4 guy and he can be shot over and isn't gifted at taking the ball away, which allows Marcus Smart to at least be a pest with ANY matchup he faces. So I'd say he's a good defender and my guess is the criticism comes from a place of arguing against the idea he is a great defender. He's going to look great playing with guys who are big threats to make plays on the ball like Smart, Rob Williams, Waters, (others?)....but gets scored over enough where he doesn't justify a stopper type reputation.

My bottom line? He went from timid and unsure for much of his rookie year to a more confident player in year two with mostly unnoticed improvements and still lacking in a skill that is likely to be his only chance for a standout offensive attribute. Personally I think he's got a rotation spot secured to start out and they will allow him to get enough of a sample size to make the call going forward.





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Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:23 am
by Wes-J
GoCeltics123 wrote:What is with the Semi hate?

He's the only Giannis defender we have, or at least the only one who can kinda slow him down. He got a lot better last year too; he just didn't get to play last year since he was buried on the depth chart.

He's fine. He's probably going to play a lot more this season too, with Morris gone.


Giannis defender? I must of missed that part in last season's playoff.

Re: The forgotten man-Semi Ojeleye

Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:59 am
by Bleeding Green
canman1971 wrote:If a thread is started with "The Forgotten"...there is usually a wonderful, easy reason for it.

He played behind Marcus Morris, Gordon Hayward, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown and had a much different skillset from those guys. One of those guys is gone and two more could be gone after or during this coming season. Hopefully they can get him some regular minutes this year and see if he can be a cheap rotation piece in 20-21 if Brown/Hayward are gone. But for now he's not really shown anything and if no trades take place he's behind Hayward/Tatum/Brown/Williams; but maybe they'll bring out the combat muscle lineup a fair amount of time with Smart/Brown/Semi/GWill/Poirier and just **** people up with bodychecks over the boards, a little dump and chase, a little drop the gloves and fight.