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FIBA World Cup

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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#241 » by zoyathedestroya » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:25 pm

Sorry I don't care if posted already...



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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#242 » by 3D Chess » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:27 pm

Appreciate all the write ups, and the highlights look good. Just curious how the overall intensity of the game was... how seriously were these guys taking it?
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#243 » by Parliament10 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:29 pm

3D Chess wrote:Appreciate all the write ups, and the highlights look good. Just curious how the overall intensity of the game was... how seriously were these guys taking it?

Tatum, and others from the National Team were taking it Very seriously.
Lowry also was on the sidelines and in the Huddle, being very vocal.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#244 » by Slartibartfast » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:16 pm

The Comedian wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
The Comedian wrote:I've been telling y'all, Tatum is going to have a HUGE year, playing within the offense as well. 22/7/3.5 on 47/39/85 splits. Will get to the line 5-6 times a night too.

You saw it last season, dude was caught in the middle, way too indecisive. I think he will be the best 2 way player on team USA, and this tournament will springboard him into a superstar season.


Tatum played great D last night as well, i forgot to mention that earlier.


Tatum may never be a great playmaker, though i feel he will be good enough. But him being such a good defender more than makes up for it IMO, he's going to have a huge year on both sides of the ball. He does need to get better against fours in the post, but that's his only real weakness on D.

Jaylen is better man to man when he's engaged, but Tatum is a much, much better team defender. I really feel like people are sleeping on him going into this yeae.


Tatum's lateral quickness isn't ideal for perimeter man D but he can do that Tayshaun Prince style where he plays conservative and uses length
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#245 » by sam_I_am » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:03 pm

He was catching and shooting 3s without any hesitation and they looked really good. That is exactly what I am hoping to see this season. 40-45% from 3 is not out of the question.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#246 » by Darth Celtic » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:16 pm

Tatum did look bigger overall. I gave him a hard time for not lifting, but again it was more he didn't post any lifting.

I feel very good watching him play last night, that he can start at the 4 and have 0 issues against probably 25 teams.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#247 » by jmr07019 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:18 pm

sam_I_am wrote:He was catching and shooting 3s without any hesitation and they looked really good. That is exactly what I am hoping to see this season. 40-45% from 3 is not out of the question.


Would like to see those percentages on 5 attempts / game
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#248 » by return2glory » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:33 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Tatum played great D last night as well, i forgot to mention that earlier.


Tatum may never be a great playmaker, though i feel he will be good enough. But him being such a good defender more than makes up for it IMO, he's going to have a huge year on both sides of the ball. He does need to get better against fours in the post, but that's his only real weakness on D.

Jaylen is better man to man when he's engaged, but Tatum is a much, much better team defender. I really feel like people are sleeping on him going into this yeae.


I need to see more [obviously], but I’m growing increasingly optimistic that Tatum will be our best player next year.

Im also growing increasingly optimistic that Kemba is prepared to let Tatum take that leap and will do all thats in his power to augment this. Kyrie, for all his talent advantages, would never let Tatum take this leap.


I’m a big Tatum fan, but saying he is going to be our best player this coming season means that he was be a guaranteed all-star. That would mean he will have to make a huge leap to pass up Kemba.

Going into last season, I felt Kemba was at Lillard’s level and both were better than Kyrie. A lot of fans laughed at that because of their love affair with Kyrie. But after the playoffs a lot of people cooled off on Kyrie or his choke job.

This has nothing to do with yesterday’s game, but I can see Tatum putting up around 20 and 7 and being a borderline all-star. If he even takes a bigger leap, 22-24 ppg for him might be possible and he should be an all-star.

People will appreciate Tatum more with Kyrie and Morris gone. People will also see that Kemba is a better player, both on and off the court than Kyrie was here in his short stay.

The one guy that this is a big year for is Brown. If he doesn’t make a big leap, Boston will not pay him the money he thinks he deserves and will look to trade him. Some people here are mentioning Hayward as the player that gets traded, I would say between Hayward and Brown, Brown will be the one gone if Boston decides to trade one of the two. I’m looking for a big year out of Hayward, more so that Brown.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#249 » by SmartWentCrazy » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:47 pm

return2glory wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
The Comedian wrote:
Tatum may never be a great playmaker, though i feel he will be good enough. But him being such a good defender more than makes up for it IMO, he's going to have a huge year on both sides of the ball. He does need to get better against fours in the post, but that's his only real weakness on D.

Jaylen is better man to man when he's engaged, but Tatum is a much, much better team defender. I really feel like people are sleeping on him going into this yeae.


I need to see more [obviously], but I’m growing increasingly optimistic that Tatum will be our best player next year.

Im also growing increasingly optimistic that Kemba is prepared to let Tatum take that leap and will do all thats in his power to augment this. Kyrie, for all his talent advantages, would never let Tatum take this leap.


I’m a big Tatum fan, but saying he is going to be our best player this coming season means that he was be a guaranteed all-star. That would mean he will have to make a huge leap to pass up Kemba.

Going into last season, I felt Kemba was at Lillard’s level and both were better than Kyrie. A lot of fans laughed at that because of their love affair with Kyrie. But after the playoffs a lot of people cooled off on Kyrie or his choke job.

This has nothing to do with yesterday’s game, but I can see Tatum putting up around 20 and 7 and being a borderline all-star. If he even takes a bigger leap, 22-24 ppg for him might be possible and he should be an all-star.

People will appreciate Tatum more with Kyrie and Morris gone. People will also see that Kemba is a better player, both on and off the court than Kyrie was here in his short stay.

The one guy that this is a big year for is Brown. If he doesn’t make a big leap, Boston will not pay him the money he thinks he deserves and will look to trade him. Some people here are mentioning Hayward as the player that gets traded, I would say between Hayward and Brown, Brown will be the one gone if Boston decides to trade one of the two. I’m looking for a big year out of Hayward, more so that Brown.


Im beginning to grow increasingly optimistic that he will take that leap, to be honest. He seems genuinely pissed off by the backlash he got last year and seems eager to take the leap. Could easily see him averaging 22-7-3 next year on 58% TS while continuing to play good defense.

The biggest thing that he has going for him is that I’m quite sure that Kemba will help him take the leap. Kyrie was never going to do that. I dont think Kemba would object to becoming the second option here. Kyrie would never have accepted that.

With Brown, I think I’m finally beginning to understand who he is as a player. When he tries to think, he struggles. But when he just plays and reacts? He’s very good. Im starting to want to extend Brown badly before the season. I think he’ll be much more willing to sacrifice personal glory for the betterment of the team if he doesnt have to worry about scoring more points to get a bigger contract. I also feel that resigning Brown would be a tremendous show of faith by our FO to show that we no longer think of these individuals as assets for a trade which will help to greatly improve the teams culture.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#250 » by Parliament10 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:26 pm

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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#251 » by Big Joke Line » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:54 pm

The Comedian wrote:I've been telling y'all, Tatum is going to have a HUGE year, playing within the offense as well. 22/7/3.5 on 47/39/85 splits. Will get to the line 5-6 times a night too.

You saw it last season, dude was caught in the middle, way too indecisive. I think he will be the best 2 way player on team USA, and this tournament will springboard him into a superstar season.

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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#252 » by Slartibartfast » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:17 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
return2glory wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
I need to see more [obviously], but I’m growing increasingly optimistic that Tatum will be our best player next year.

Im also growing increasingly optimistic that Kemba is prepared to let Tatum take that leap and will do all thats in his power to augment this. Kyrie, for all his talent advantages, would never let Tatum take this leap.


I’m a big Tatum fan, but saying he is going to be our best player this coming season means that he was be a guaranteed all-star. That would mean he will have to make a huge leap to pass up Kemba.

Going into last season, I felt Kemba was at Lillard’s level and both were better than Kyrie. A lot of fans laughed at that because of their love affair with Kyrie. But after the playoffs a lot of people cooled off on Kyrie or his choke job.

This has nothing to do with yesterday’s game, but I can see Tatum putting up around 20 and 7 and being a borderline all-star. If he even takes a bigger leap, 22-24 ppg for him might be possible and he should be an all-star.

People will appreciate Tatum more with Kyrie and Morris gone. People will also see that Kemba is a better player, both on and off the court than Kyrie was here in his short stay.

The one guy that this is a big year for is Brown. If he doesn’t make a big leap, Boston will not pay him the money he thinks he deserves and will look to trade him. Some people here are mentioning Hayward as the player that gets traded, I would say between Hayward and Brown, Brown will be the one gone if Boston decides to trade one of the two. I’m looking for a big year out of Hayward, more so that Brown.


Im beginning to grow increasingly optimistic that he will take that leap, to be honest. He seems genuinely pissed off by the backlash he got last year and seems eager to take the leap. Could easily see him averaging 22-7-3 next year on 58% TS while continuing to play good defense.

The biggest thing that he has going for him is that I’m quite sure that Kemba will help him take the leap. Kyrie was never going to do that. I dont think Kemba would object to becoming the second option here. Kyrie would never have accepted that.

With Brown, I think I’m finally beginning to understand who he is as a player. When he tries to think, he struggles. But when he just plays and reacts? He’s very good. Im starting to want to extend Brown badly before the season. I think he’ll be much more willing to sacrifice personal glory for the betterment of the team if he doesnt have to worry about scoring more points to get a bigger contract. I also feel that resigning Brown would be a tremendous show of faith by our FO to show that we no longer think of these individuals as assets for a trade which will help to greatly improve the teams culture.


I don't think Tatum's game is built for efficient first option status, at least not yet. He's at his most efficient off-ball or attacking mismatches. Making him a first option now I think would be bad for his development - not a great perimeter creator, not a great passer, not a great decision maker... yet. To give him first option usage would be misusing him, I think, and potentially reinforce some of his sketchier habits.

Also we didn't sign Kemba to the max to be a 2nd option, at least not initially . He is different from Kyrie as a leader, but the majority of his value is in his ability to score in volume. He didn't become an all-star until he started getting Kyrie usage.

I think Kemba will be a 27-29% usage guy this year. A PNR, DHO machine whose shot gravity also makes him an effective decoy and off-ball weapon (as Brad did frequently with IT). Hayward will most likely be the secondary PNR guy given his more advanced playmaking ability (and the need for other guys to have shots created for them). And Tatum will get a lot of Klay Thompson style 2nd/3rd option playcalls to get him shots, plus an occasional clear out to work small guys in the mid-post or bigs from the perimeter.

I'm guessing 23ppg/5apg for Kemba, 17/6 for Hayward and 18/3 for Tatum, all in the 55-60 TS% range
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#253 » by SmartWentCrazy » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:47 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
return2glory wrote:
I’m a big Tatum fan, but saying he is going to be our best player this coming season means that he was be a guaranteed all-star. That would mean he will have to make a huge leap to pass up Kemba.

Going into last season, I felt Kemba was at Lillard’s level and both were better than Kyrie. A lot of fans laughed at that because of their love affair with Kyrie. But after the playoffs a lot of people cooled off on Kyrie or his choke job.

This has nothing to do with yesterday’s game, but I can see Tatum putting up around 20 and 7 and being a borderline all-star. If he even takes a bigger leap, 22-24 ppg for him might be possible and he should be an all-star.

People will appreciate Tatum more with Kyrie and Morris gone. People will also see that Kemba is a better player, both on and off the court than Kyrie was here in his short stay.

The one guy that this is a big year for is Brown. If he doesn’t make a big leap, Boston will not pay him the money he thinks he deserves and will look to trade him. Some people here are mentioning Hayward as the player that gets traded, I would say between Hayward and Brown, Brown will be the one gone if Boston decides to trade one of the two. I’m looking for a big year out of Hayward, more so that Brown.


Im beginning to grow increasingly optimistic that he will take that leap, to be honest. He seems genuinely pissed off by the backlash he got last year and seems eager to take the leap. Could easily see him averaging 22-7-3 next year on 58% TS while continuing to play good defense.

The biggest thing that he has going for him is that I’m quite sure that Kemba will help him take the leap. Kyrie was never going to do that. I dont think Kemba would object to becoming the second option here. Kyrie would never have accepted that.

With Brown, I think I’m finally beginning to understand who he is as a player. When he tries to think, he struggles. But when he just plays and reacts? He’s very good. Im starting to want to extend Brown badly before the season. I think he’ll be much more willing to sacrifice personal glory for the betterment of the team if he doesnt have to worry about scoring more points to get a bigger contract. I also feel that resigning Brown would be a tremendous show of faith by our FO to show that we no longer think of these individuals as assets for a trade which will help to greatly improve the teams culture.


I don't think Tatum's game is built for efficient first option status, at least not yet. He's at his most efficient off-ball or attacking mismatches. Making him a first option now I think would be bad for his development - not a great perimeter creator, not a great passer, not a great decision maker... yet. To give him first option usage would be misusing him, I think, and potentially reinforce some of his sketchier habits.

Also we didn't sign Kemba to the max to be a 2nd option, at least not initially . He is different from Kyrie as a leader, but the majority of his value is in his ability to score in volume. He didn't become an all-star until he started getting Kyrie usage.

I think Kemba will be a 27-29% usage guy this year. A PNR, DHO machine whose shot gravity also makes him an effective decoy and off-ball weapon (as Brad did frequently with IT). Hayward will most likely be the secondary PNR guy given his more advanced playmaking ability (and the need for other guys to have shots created for them). And Tatum will get a lot of Klay Thompson style 2nd/3rd option playcalls to get him shots, plus an occasional clear out to work small guys in the mid-post or bigs from the perimeter.

I'm guessing 23ppg/5apg for Kemba, 17/6 for Hayward and 18/3 for Tatum, all in the 55-60 TS% range


I look at Tatum’s skill set similarly to how PG or KP had been used in the past. If he can get up to around 7 3PA’s and 5-6 FT’s, I’d be shocked if he was below 20-22 points. He wont be the primary initiator, that will still be Kemba, but he can still be out best scorer.

I would be money Hayward is no where near those numbers— its just not in his nature. Hayward never took more than 15-16 shots per game in Utah, where he was the unquestioned top option. Cant see him getting more than 11-12 shots here. 14-6-5 is the highest I could see him getting. It will likely be even lower if he comes off the bench next year.
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Re: FIBA World Cup – (Team USA Scrimmage - 10PM, 08-09-19 - NBA-TV & Twitch) 

Post#254 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:39 am

Parliament10 wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:Anybody find a Boxscore?

OK I found the Boxscore:
https://www.usab.com/news-events/live-stats/2019/mnt/box-score-mnt-white-blue-game.aspx


Jaylen:

11 minutes
2 points
4 fouls
4 turnovers

Ouch.

At least he was 2-2 on FTs and got a couple of steals.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#255 » by 31to6 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:51 am

My goodness Tatum looks like a stretched-out Pierce wearing that 34 jersey! And even though I’m a big JB fan I do think Tatum is just stupid enough (in a totally fine/normal way) to be a star.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#256 » by Parliament10 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:47 am

Any Predictions on the Final 12?


I think Smart makes it, just for his flexibility.
Walker and Tatum are locks. -- I'd like to see Brown in there too, but I wonder.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#257 » by AKFO » Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:03 am

I still think Jaylen makes it. It takes a lot of confidence from a guy like Pop to put him in the starting lineup over say Tatum or Kuz. He's going to have to refocus as we enter international competition.

I reckon part of the appeal in starting Jaylen would be a focus on defense and role playing; Brad sees these complimentary skills in Jaylen as well, but too often he is preoccupied with scoring to play his intended role well. Such is the conundrum with Jaylen, who doesn't want to be reduced to his role playing skills and thinks he can become a great scorer in this league. Perhaps tough to see guys like Tatum and Kuz (even Middleton and Mitchell) come in with a green light, but Jaylen has to recognize his strengths that give a guy like Pop the confidence to start him.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#258 » by Slartibartfast » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:16 am

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Im beginning to grow increasingly optimistic that he will take that leap, to be honest. He seems genuinely pissed off by the backlash he got last year and seems eager to take the leap. Could easily see him averaging 22-7-3 next year on 58% TS while continuing to play good defense.

The biggest thing that he has going for him is that I’m quite sure that Kemba will help him take the leap. Kyrie was never going to do that. I dont think Kemba would object to becoming the second option here. Kyrie would never have accepted that.

With Brown, I think I’m finally beginning to understand who he is as a player. When he tries to think, he struggles. But when he just plays and reacts? He’s very good. Im starting to want to extend Brown badly before the season. I think he’ll be much more willing to sacrifice personal glory for the betterment of the team if he doesnt have to worry about scoring more points to get a bigger contract. I also feel that resigning Brown would be a tremendous show of faith by our FO to show that we no longer think of these individuals as assets for a trade which will help to greatly improve the teams culture.


I don't think Tatum's game is built for efficient first option status, at least not yet. He's at his most efficient off-ball or attacking mismatches. Making him a first option now I think would be bad for his development - not a great perimeter creator, not a great passer, not a great decision maker... yet. To give him first option usage would be misusing him, I think, and potentially reinforce some of his sketchier habits.

Also we didn't sign Kemba to the max to be a 2nd option, at least not initially . He is different from Kyrie as a leader, but the majority of his value is in his ability to score in volume. He didn't become an all-star until he started getting Kyrie usage.

I think Kemba will be a 27-29% usage guy this year. A PNR, DHO machine whose shot gravity also makes him an effective decoy and off-ball weapon (as Brad did frequently with IT). Hayward will most likely be the secondary PNR guy given his more advanced playmaking ability (and the need for other guys to have shots created for them). And Tatum will get a lot of Klay Thompson style 2nd/3rd option playcalls to get him shots, plus an occasional clear out to work small guys in the mid-post or bigs from the perimeter.

I'm guessing 23ppg/5apg for Kemba, 17/6 for Hayward and 18/3 for Tatum, all in the 55-60 TS% range


I look at Tatum’s skill set similarly to how PG or KP had been used in the past. If he can get up to around 7 3PA’s and 5-6 FT’s, I’d be shocked if he was below 20-22 points. He wont be the primary initiator, that will still be Kemba, but he can still be out best scorer.

I would be money Hayward is no where near those numbers— its just not in his nature. Hayward never took more than 15-16 shots per game in Utah, where he was the unquestioned top option. Cant see him getting more than 11-12 shots here. 14-6-5 is the highest I could see him getting. It will likely be even lower if he comes off the bench next year.


Doubling his 3PA and FTA is extreme, though I see what you are saying with PG. A lot of off screen actions.

But I really think you are taking Hayward's retreat into low usage roleplayerhood for granted. His Utah career average was 16 points on 12 shots (with a higher overall possession usage than his shots would indicate because of his FTAs). His shot numbers were also deflated by Utah's glacial pace - dead last in the league for Gordo's last 3 seasons there. Pace adjusted, he was much closer to someone like Big 3 Pierce. I think that's the guy he's going to try to get back to - not the Kelly Olynyk imitator we saw last year. The guy is young and ambitious - you really think he wants to resign himself to being retirement age Manu while he's still in his late prime?

I think it's Hayward that will be splitting 2nd option usage with Tatum in the short term. He'll be getting a lot of those off screen actions, he'll be getting a lot of those secondary pick and rolls and isos.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#259 » by Tiny ball » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:42 am

sam_I_am wrote:He was catching and shooting 3s without any hesitation and they looked really good. That is exactly what I am hoping to see this season. 40-45% from 3 is not out of the question.

Yes he was not playing around with the ball. He looked good.
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Re: FIBA World Cup 

Post#260 » by SmartWentCrazy » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:13 am

Slartibartfast wrote:
SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
I don't think Tatum's game is built for efficient first option status, at least not yet. He's at his most efficient off-ball or attacking mismatches. Making him a first option now I think would be bad for his development - not a great perimeter creator, not a great passer, not a great decision maker... yet. To give him first option usage would be misusing him, I think, and potentially reinforce some of his sketchier habits.

Also we didn't sign Kemba to the max to be a 2nd option, at least not initially . He is different from Kyrie as a leader, but the majority of his value is in his ability to score in volume. He didn't become an all-star until he started getting Kyrie usage.

I think Kemba will be a 27-29% usage guy this year. A PNR, DHO machine whose shot gravity also makes him an effective decoy and off-ball weapon (as Brad did frequently with IT). Hayward will most likely be the secondary PNR guy given his more advanced playmaking ability (and the need for other guys to have shots created for them). And Tatum will get a lot of Klay Thompson style 2nd/3rd option playcalls to get him shots, plus an occasional clear out to work small guys in the mid-post or bigs from the perimeter.

I'm guessing 23ppg/5apg for Kemba, 17/6 for Hayward and 18/3 for Tatum, all in the 55-60 TS% range


I look at Tatum’s skill set similarly to how PG or KP had been used in the past. If he can get up to around 7 3PA’s and 5-6 FT’s, I’d be shocked if he was below 20-22 points. He wont be the primary initiator, that will still be Kemba, but he can still be out best scorer.

I would be money Hayward is no where near those numbers— its just not in his nature. Hayward never took more than 15-16 shots per game in Utah, where he was the unquestioned top option. Cant see him getting more than 11-12 shots here. 14-6-5 is the highest I could see him getting. It will likely be even lower if he comes off the bench next year.


Doubling his 3PA and FTA is extreme, though I see what you are saying with PG. A lot of off screen actions.

But I really think you are taking Hayward's retreat into low usage roleplayerhood for granted. His Utah career average was 16 points on 12 shots (with a higher overall possession usage than his shots would indicate because of his FTAs). His shot numbers were also deflated by Utah's glacial pace - dead last in the league for Gordo's last 3 seasons there. Pace adjusted, he was much closer to someone like Big 3 Pierce. I think that's the guy he's going to try to get back to - not the Kelly Olynyk imitator we saw last year. The guy is young and ambitious - you really think he wants to resign himself to being retirement age Manu while he's still in his late prime?

I think it's Hayward that will be splitting 2nd option usage with Tatum in the short term. He'll be getting a lot of those off screen actions, he'll be getting a lot of those secondary pick and rolls and isos.


I dont— its one of the reasons I think we trade the player. I think he’s going to want the role that we committed to him when he signed here and I think Ainge isnt going to give it to him because its not whats best for our team long term [to be any semblance of a highly competitive team, we need Tatum to become a top 10 caliber player IMO]. Short term, I get why we’d want to give that role to Hayward, but I think Ainge is going to start taking a longer view given that we arent winning the title next year.

The increase Tatum’s 3PA is definitely ambitious. I’m just hoping that:

a) his experience on team USA, where Pop is going to have him taking many catch-and-shoot three’s, opens his eyes to how effective a weapon that can be given his skill set

b) Drew Hanlon/Tatum arent bull-shitting us when they say they’re trying to change his ‘pump fake, dribble in for a long two’ move into a ‘pump fake, step sideways for a three’

With respect the the FTA’s, 4-5 is probably more realistic. I’m being ambitious that he’ll stop trying to mimic Kyrie’s game now that he’s no longer here and that he’ll revert to a FTr that he’s shown in the playoffs. FTs are also one of those contagious stats, where once he starts drawing more FTs, refs are going to buy his flopping more and the virtuous cycle will begin.

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