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Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum?

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Who of the 4 starts?

Poll ended at Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:52 am

All 4
3
3%
Tatum, Hayward, Brown
71
66%
Tatum, Hayward, Smart
14
13%
Tatum, Brown, Smart
11
10%
Hayward, Brown,Smart
0
No votes
Tatum and Brown
4
4%
Tatum and Hayward
1
1%
Tatum and Smart
1
1%
Brown and Hayward
0
No votes
Hayward and Smart
2
2%
 
Total votes: 107

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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#61 » by Fencer reregistered » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:42 am

Gant wrote:One way to look at this question is to ask a different one, which is... Who will run the team when Kemba goes out?

It seems like Smart is the easiest choice for that, as he's a very good floor general. Maybe Hayward could do it, but Hayward as a main distributor seems like more of a short minute gimmick. So probably Smart will come off the bench a lot. Realistically, who else is there to back up Walker?


Having said that, you'd think the starting group will be constantly changing according to health, matchups, and who's earned it.


I'd extend to asking who the whole base-case lineup is without Kemba. My first thought is:

Kanter (scoring, rebounding)
Tatum (scoring, team defense)
Brown (4th-option scoring, man defense)
Smart (ball-handling, defense)
Edwards (scoring, ball-handling)

Of course, with a Walker/Edwards swap, that could be the starting lineup too.

Basically, if you're going to play both Kanter and a defensively-questionable PG, then you want your three other guys to be good defenders. And if you're aiming for that and you're still suspicious of Hayward's defense, then probably when Hayward and Kanter are on the court together, the other guys should be Smart plus two other reliable defenders.
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#62 » by Parliament10 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:58 am

I'm much more confident of Tatum being the Celtics' Starting 4. After watching him Train on Team USA.
We'll see how he plays in the actual World Cup.
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#63 » by LloydFree » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:43 pm

Crossing my fingers, they start Hayward and bench Brown in his contract year, so the chemistry issues continue.
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#64 » by Parliament10 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:53 pm

LloydFree wrote:Crossing my fingers, they start Hayward and bench Brown in his contract year, so the chemistry issues continue.

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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#65 » by cloverleaf » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:28 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:
Gant wrote:One way to look at this question is to ask a different one, which is... Who will run the team when Kemba goes out?

It seems like Smart is the easiest choice for that, as he's a very good floor general. Maybe Hayward could do it, but Hayward as a main distributor seems like more of a short minute gimmick. So probably Smart will come off the bench a lot. Realistically, who else is there to back up Walker?


Having said that, you'd think the starting group will be constantly changing according to health, matchups, and who's earned it.


I'd extend to asking who the whole base-case lineup is without Kemba. My first thought is:

Kanter (scoring, rebounding)
Tatum (scoring, team defense)
Brown (4th-option scoring, man defense)
Smart (ball-handling, defense)
Edwards (scoring, ball-handling)

Of course, with a Walker/Edwards swap, that could be the starting lineup too.

Basically, if you're going to play both Kanter and a defensively-questionable PG, then you want your three other guys to be good defenders. And if you're aiming for that and you're still suspicious of Hayward's defense, then probably when Hayward and Kanter are on the court together, the other guys should be Smart plus two other reliable defenders.


I don't think Edwards is ready for that. I'd put Smart in for Walker if no Walker, and keep Brown, Gordo and Tatum in there with Kanter, at least early in the season. That is defensively better than Edwards aas a rook in there. And if you think you need someone who can stick with the opponent's PG a little better, than Wanamaker could be the surprise start.

Don't get me wrong--I like Edwards and think he's a rotation player from the start, but off the bench with Smart paired with him.
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#66 » by snowman » Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:14 pm

Starters: Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Theis and Kanter
gives us a true PF with 3 PT range to help on the def side with Kanter. Plenty of firepower, with Kemba, Brown, Tatum and Kanter, Nice def with Brown, Tatum and Theis, and rebounding with Theis and Kanter.

Second 5: Smart, Langford, Haywood, R. Williams and Poirier
Haywood and Langford would be the bench scoring, with Haywood being the first off the bench. Smart, Williams and Poirier def and rebounding. Plenty of toughness.

Deep 5: Edwards, Wannamaker, Semi, G. Williams and Fall.

Depending on match ups, Theis and Haywood rotate, and possibility so do Kanter and Poirier. I would not be surprised to see Wannamaker move in a small deal this season. He is only on a vet min 1 year deal I think.
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#67 » by itrsteve » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:53 pm

I don't really care who starts or "is a starter" to be quite honest, having scoring threats in the second unit is an awesome problem to have and isn't a slight to talent when there's this much on a roster.

I like the idea of Hayward coming off the bench and starting Brown, so long as he's getting an equal'ish distribution of minutes to Tatum and Brown.

When it's closing time, this is the lineup I want:
Kemba - Smart - Tatum - Hayward - Kanter (I think, this is till TBD)
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#68 » by Triple7 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:43 pm

itrsteve wrote:I don't really care who starts or "is a starter" to be quite honest, having scoring threats in the second unit is an awesome problem to have and isn't a slight to talent when there's this much on a roster.

I like the idea of Hayward coming off the bench and starting Brown, so long as he's getting an equal'ish distribution of minutes to Tatum and Brown.

When it's closing time, this is the lineup I want:
Kemba - Smart - Tatum - Hayward - Kanter (I think, this is till TBD)


Honestly, i like Kanter to finish games as well. We need a post up presence/inside game during crunch time, just so to make our offense be unpredictable. Last year, with Horford hanging around the 3pt line, teams knows exactly how to defend us. They knew, and we knew we were going to take an outside shot everytime. Now, with Kanter, or even Poirier, we have a lot of options offensively. They can post up, and throw it back for open 3’s, or kemba, brown and Tatum can do a drive and dish.
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#69 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:41 am

itrsteve wrote:I don't really care who starts or "is a starter" to be quite honest, having scoring threats in the second unit is an awesome problem to have and isn't a slight to talent when there's this much on a roster.

I like the idea of Hayward coming off the bench and starting Brown, so long as he's getting an equal'ish distribution of minutes to Tatum and Brown.

When it's closing time, this is the lineup I want:
Kemba - Smart - Tatum - Hayward - Kanter (I think, this is till TBD)


Not that I've checked the relevant stats, but Kemba is said to be consistently unsuccessful as a closer on offense. And of course he's an issue on defense as well.

And while I haven't checked stats on him either (or on anybody else), Smart has a bit of a DJ vibe in that I'm more optimistic in his shooting in crunch time than in the rest of the game. (And I felt that way about him even before he scored off the Bird steal, which is a contender for the greatest clutch shot in Celtics history and also the most famous one.)
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#70 » by cloverleaf » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:18 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
itrsteve wrote:I don't really care who starts or "is a starter" to be quite honest, having scoring threats in the second unit is an awesome problem to have and isn't a slight to talent when there's this much on a roster.

I like the idea of Hayward coming off the bench and starting Brown, so long as he's getting an equal'ish distribution of minutes to Tatum and Brown.

When it's closing time, this is the lineup I want:
Kemba - Smart - Tatum - Hayward - Kanter (I think, this is till TBD)


Not that I've checked the relevant stats, but Kemba is said to be consistently unsuccessful as a closer on offense. And of course he's an issue on defense as well.

And while I haven't checked stats on him either (or on anybody else), Smart has a bit of a DJ vibe in that I'm more optimistic in his shooting in crunch time than in the rest of the game. (And I felt that way about him even before he scored off the Bird steal, which is a contender for the greatest clutch shot in Celtics history and also the most famous one.)


Okay, I'll say it--Kemba was ineffective closing out the FIBA competition this summer too. I'm not looking for a lot of late (or early or middling) shooting from Smart, but it is of course easier to make offensive/defensive switches later than earlier, at least.

And it may be hard for a starting lineup with both kemba and Enes in it to be good on D, so there could be an opportunity for a marcus or Daniel or Rob or Vincent or Grant to slip in there at some point somehow instead. Rob for Enes as the obvious choice. Tatum's pretty decent on D, despite not having the bulky strength of a traditional 4, so I'm not so sure putting in Theis or Grant there will be a big change maker. Kemba's not coming out, so the obvious is for Rob or Vincent to relieve Enes.
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#71 » by Fencer reregistered » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:35 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:
itrsteve wrote:I don't really care who starts or "is a starter" to be quite honest, having scoring threats in the second unit is an awesome problem to have and isn't a slight to talent when there's this much on a roster.

I like the idea of Hayward coming off the bench and starting Brown, so long as he's getting an equal'ish distribution of minutes to Tatum and Brown.

When it's closing time, this is the lineup I want:
Kemba - Smart - Tatum - Hayward - Kanter (I think, this is till TBD)


Not that I've checked the relevant stats, but Kemba is said to be consistently unsuccessful as a closer on offense. And of course he's an issue on defense as well.

And while I haven't checked stats on him either (or on anybody else), Smart has a bit of a DJ vibe in that I'm more optimistic in his shooting in crunch time than in the rest of the game. (And I felt that way about him even before he scored off the Bird steal, which is a contender for the greatest clutch shot in Celtics history and also the most famous one.)


Okay, I'll say it--Kemba was ineffective closing out the FIBA competition this summer too. I'm not looking for a lot of late (or early or middling) shooting from Smart, but it is of course easier to make offensive/defensive switches later than earlier, at least.

And it may be hard for a starting lineup with both kemba and Enes in it to be good on D, so there could be an opportunity for a marcus or Daniel or Rob or Vincent or Grant to slip in there at some point somehow instead. Rob for Enes as the obvious choice. Tatum's pretty decent on D, despite not having the bulky strength of a traditional 4, so I'm not so sure putting in Theis or Grant there will be a big change maker. Kemba's not coming out, so the obvious is for Rob or Vincent to relieve Enes.


A typical closing lineup for the Cs in recent years has featured IT or Kyrie, but not Baynes.
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#72 » by Slartibartfast » Tue Oct 1, 2019 12:33 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
itrsteve wrote:I don't really care who starts or "is a starter" to be quite honest, having scoring threats in the second unit is an awesome problem to have and isn't a slight to talent when there's this much on a roster.

I like the idea of Hayward coming off the bench and starting Brown, so long as he's getting an equal'ish distribution of minutes to Tatum and Brown.

When it's closing time, this is the lineup I want:
Kemba - Smart - Tatum - Hayward - Kanter (I think, this is till TBD)


Not that I've checked the relevant stats, but Kemba is said to be consistently unsuccessful as a closer on offense. And of course he's an issue on defense as well.

And while I haven't checked stats on him either (or on anybody else), Smart has a bit of a DJ vibe in that I'm more optimistic in his shooting in crunch time than in the rest of the game. (And I felt that way about him even before he scored off the Bird steal, which is a contender for the greatest clutch shot in Celtics history and also the most famous one.)


They will be too green for it, but our rookies have excellent crunch time skill packages. Edwards with his pull-up range and offensive gravity. Langford has excellent contested shot-making ability from mid-range and in. And Grant as a short roll mid-range and passing threat.
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#73 » by Curmudgeon » Tue Oct 1, 2019 2:48 pm

Stevens likes Smart coming off the bench and that's what will happen barring injuries. The more interesting question is which one of those four is on the bench at the end of a close game. I bet it won't be Smart unless he's having a bad game.
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#74 » by 31to6 » Tue Oct 1, 2019 6:27 pm

Too many cooks in this kitchen, still. If Jaylen and Hayward were subs last year, it's easy to believe that at least one of them will be again this year.

I'd love Smart/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Kanter. But we obviously ain't getting that.
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#75 » by Green89 » Wed Oct 2, 2019 3:29 am

Curmudgeon wrote:Stevens likes Smart coming off the bench and that's what will happen barring injuries. The more interesting question is which one of those four is on the bench at the end of a close game. I bet it won't be Smart unless he's having a bad game.


The center most likely. Tatum-Smart-Walker-Hayward-Brown will probably be the closers.
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#76 » by zoyathedestroya » Wed Oct 2, 2019 3:52 am

Who's the other idiot/genius/smartass who voted for Tatum and Brown to both come off the bench?
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#77 » by SmartWentCrazy » Sat Oct 5, 2019 2:30 pm

Hot take:

My ideal starting 5 is Kemba-Brown-Tatum-Semi-Time Lord. Would roll out a bench of Edwards-Smart-Hayward-Williams-Kanter.

Feels like both lineups are well balanced with roles, an established pecking order and defense and that our bench would crush other teams.

Would close with Kemba-Smart-Tatum-Hayward-Brown, rotating in a big if needed.
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#78 » by The Comedian » Sat Oct 5, 2019 6:15 pm

This is based on the idea that Smart is coming off the bench, but I kind of like the idea of
Kemba/Tatum/Hayward/G Williams/Kanter.

I feel like the 5th guy has to be someone who can positively impact the game without looking for his shot, and Grant can do that. He will play smart team D, keep the ball moving, and he should be a pretty good rebounder, also gives them some toughness.

That said, i'm expecting the same lineup as everyone else.
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#79 » by cloverleaf » Sat Oct 5, 2019 9:33 pm

SmartWentCrazy wrote:Hot take:

My ideal starting 5 is Kemba-Brown-Tatum-Semi-Time Lord. Would roll out a bench of Edwards-Smart-Hayward-Williams-Kanter.

Feels like both lineups are well balanced with roles, an established pecking order and defense and that our bench would crush other teams.

Would close with Kemba-Smart-Tatum-Hayward-Brown, rotating in a big if needed.


Semi and TL starting together? That could make for some very sorry O.
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Re: Who Starts next to Kemba and a C, out of Hayward, Brown, Smart and Tatum? 

Post#80 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat Oct 5, 2019 10:20 pm

For a guy who was picked as the top high school player of the year, Semi has developed slowly since then. Is there any basis for hope about him stronger than "He's not totally worthless on the court, he's still fairly young, and he seems like a good guy, so maybe it will finally click?"

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