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Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft?

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Which Draft Was The Really Bad One

2015 - Batted 0 for 4.
3
50%
2016 - Hit 1 for 7, although there might be an error, maybe an extra-base hit.
3
50%
 
Total votes: 6

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Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#1 » by Celtics_History_Lesson » Fri Sep 6, 2019 11:50 pm

Two drafts of "athlete with potential".

Many other picks to use too.

Very little to show for all the picks.





2016 Draft Picks

His big win was not picking, with two picks becoming a first rounder from the Clippers recently, but he did miss stars at the time so it wasn't a win if it isn't compared to all his losses in 2016.


3 Jaylen Brown
16 Guerschon Yabusele
23 Ante Zizic
31 Deyonta Davis
35 Rade Zagorac
45 Demetrius Jackson
51 Ben Bentil
58 Abdel Nader


Jaylen Brown, inefficent and unskilled.

When it comes to scoring efficiently, it would be nice if there was only one or two players ahead of him.

Jakob Poeltl, Domantas Sabonis, Pascal Siakam, Malcolm Brogdon, Ivica Zubac, Malik Beasley, Jake Layman, Ante Zizic, Buddy Hield, Ben Simmons, Juan Hernangomez, Taurean Prince, Brandon Ingram all could score better, more efficiently, than Brown last season. Some others, in small minutes, did as well.


PER, that can give an idea of a player who does more than you think.

Domantas Sabonis, Ben Simmons, Jakob Poeltl, Ivica Zubac, Pascal Siakam, Malcolm Brogdon, Cheick Diallo, Buddy Hield, Ante Zizic, Jamal Murray, Deyonta Davis, Damian Jones, Caris LeVert, Malik Beasley and then Jaylen Brown, Jake Layman and Brandon Ingram.


Will try points per game, another fail. Buddy Hield, Brandon Ingram, Jamal Murray, Pascal Siakam, Ben Simmons, Malcolm Brogdon, Domantas Sabonis, Caris LeVert, Taurean Waller-Prince, Jaylen Brown.

Assists per game. He does struggle to bounce the ball, and to pass the ball. Better than J Brown last season, Ben Simmons, Kris Dunn, Jamal Murray, Caris LeVert, Malcolm Brogdon, Pascal Siakam, Brandon Ingram, Domantas Sabonis, DeAndre' Bembry, Buddy Hield and Taurean Prince.

Rebounds, he is an athlete and can jump, but he gets the same rebounds per game as J Murray did last season. Better players per game were Domantas Sabonis, Ben Simmons, Pascal Siakam, Ivica Zubac, Ante Zizic, Jakob Poeltl, Cheick Diallo, Brandon Ingram, Buddy Hield, Malcolm Brogdon and DeAndre' Bembry.

Last season, Brown was 24th for players in his draft class for Box Plus/Minus. He was behind Pascal Siakam, Ben Simmons, Domantas Sabonis, Malcolm Brogdon, Buddy Hield, Jamal Murray, Jakob Poeltl, Malik Beasley, Ivica Zubac and Jake Layman for Win Shares. Value Over Replacement Player, Brown in 19th spot.



J Brown = B Ingram

Brown is of course healthier, and Ingram wasn't an option for the Celtics at the time of the pick. For position and stats, and draft position, they are the same. Inefficient swingmen. Ingram was ranked by nearly all as the second-best prospect. J Brown was all over the place, but 5 to 7 in the predraft rankings was where most had him. Maybe he is the 8th-best from his draft, but statistics don't get him near the Top 10. Box Plus/Minus has him outside the Top 20, next to Demetrius Jackson, with Ingram worse than that.

Really, Brown is Ingram. From their draft, Brown is 41st for FT%. Ingram at 66.2% for his career is much better than Brown and slots in at 40th spot. Who knew that Georgios Papagiannis shot 86% on free throws? EffectiveFG%, last season Brown was ranked 20th for his draft, Ingram was 21st. Ingram is a bust, but the type of bust that Wiggins is, and will probably get an overpay of crazy proportions. Wiggins is the worst contract in the NBA. You don't want your team replicating that.


If you don't hit big with your Top 10 pick, it is a bad draft, especially when four later ones are busts.

Nader, at least he is famous because of four free throws. Bentil, he got extra money from Ainge, a very strange move. D Jackson, Celtics are paying him for another half a decade. Rade was not good, D Davis does have length and still has potential, but the first rounder acquired in trade was better than him. Right now, Celtics have Carsen Edwards and the 2020 Bucks' first rounder, which is nearly equal to trading away two very high second rounder. Of course, players like Brogdon are better than the first from the Clippers, probably. Zizic, a quality center for the paint. Yabu, everything about the pick was crazy.





2015 Draft Picks

He tried to trade four first rounders for a horribly-inefficient swingman. Team would have been a bigger disaster in the following years if that trade had been accepted by Michael Jordan.


16 Terry Rozier
28 R.J. Hunter
33 Jordan Mickey
45 Marcus Thornton


Rozier wasn't the very worst shooter from his draft last season, but he tried to be. Payne was better, that is sad for the Celtics fans who watched in 2018-19.

Richaun Holmes, Montrezl Harrell, Kevon Looney, Karl-Anthony Towns, Jahlil Okafor, Norman Powell, Willy Hernangomez, Frank Kaminsky, Devin Booker, Larry Nance, Pat Connaughton, Myles Turner, Willie Cauley-Stein, Kelly Oubre, Cedi Osman, Josh Richardson, D'Angelo Russell, Emmanuel Mudiay, Bobby Portis, Jerian Grant, Delon Wright, Sam Dekker, Cameron Payne, Justin Anderson, Justise Winslow, and there is chucker Terry Rozier for scoring efficiency.


If you think PER will save Rozier from looking very bad, no. Karl-Anthony Towns, Montrezl Harrell, Richaun Holmes, Willy Hernangomez, Devin Booker, D'Angelo Russell, Larry Nance, Willie Cauley-Stein, Myles Turner, Jahlil Okafor, Kevon Looney, Frank Kaminsky, Bobby Portis, Delon Wright, Kelly Oubre, Emmanuel Mudiay, Josh Richardson, Tyus Jones, Pat Connaughton, Sam Dekker, Norman Powell, and there is Terry Rozier followed by "Four Picks "Justise Winslow.


Thornton was nowhere near NBA-quality, but had nice hair. Mickey was useful in a minimum last spot on the bench role. Hunter, a shooter who couldn't really shoot. Had half the picks of the previous draft, none of them were good.





Which draft went worse?


2015? If Ainge had put all the picks in a bottle and thrown the bottle in the ocean without selecting any players, the Celtics would be where they are right now.


2016? Still paying D Jackson. Get to pay Yabusele for this year too. Overpay J Brown, watch him leave, trade him now, the big possible return that is left from these two drafts.
Markelle has Faults, Lonzo can't Ball, Jayson Tatum is the best player in his draft.

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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#2 » by Captain_Caveman » Sun Sep 8, 2019 2:34 am

I usually have no problem sitting your threads out, but this one is especially bad.

Did both of those drafts not suck rocks? Did they not try to trade up from 16 in 2015? Did they pass on anyone of note with their high picks?

Even as someone who wanted Hield in 2016 (ok, or Dunn lol), Jaylen was a good pick at 3. Even as someone who wanted them to tank harder in 2015, Rozier was a good pick at 16.

If there's a draft Ainge screwed up, it was the one he took Olynyk over Giannis in. But then, he had company there.
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#3 » by Wes-J » Sun Sep 8, 2019 2:50 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:I usually have no problem sitting your threads out, but this one is especially bad.

Did both of those drafts not suck rocks? Did they not try to trade up from 16 in 2015? Did they pass on anyone of note with their high picks?

Even as someone who wanted Hield in 2016 (ok, or Dunn lol), Jaylen was a good pick at 3. Even as someone who wanted them to tank harder in 2015, Rozier was a good pick at 16.

If there's a draft Ainge screwed up, it was the one he took Olynyk over Giannis in. But then, he had company there.


Can I +1000000 this?

This is getting really tired.
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#4 » by Fencer reregistered » Sun Sep 8, 2019 10:32 am

By a remarkable coincidence, the only guy out of 11 who CHL views as a good pick is white.
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#5 » by CeltsfanSinceBirth » Sun Sep 8, 2019 3:21 pm

I think the 2016 draft goes a lot differently if free agency took place before the draft. If we knew we weren't getting KD, then maybe we take players instead of guys agreeing to play overseas for one season.

As for 2015 - I am one of the guilty anti-tankers. Rozier was a solid pick.......but if we had lost a few more games, then maybe we've got Myles Turner or Booker in a Celtics uniform. Worst part about this crow pie I'm eating is that I wanted the Celtics to make the playoffs because I thought that would be enough to entice Kevin Love to sign in Boston.

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I like Brown...........but we have to trade him this season, because he's not going to be worth that next contract he gets
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#6 » by Taget » Sun Sep 8, 2019 9:05 pm

Look. I wanted Jamal Murray. I wanted Sabonis with the #16 which I knew wasn't realistic. I even predicted that Sabonis was the surest thing and everyone who swung for the fences and missed would wish they picked him. Course I can't say I really had enough of a feel to know what the hell I was saying. And I wanted Korkmaz at #23 who certainly was a bust.

But given how weak that draft has been picking the Jaylen who may be the second best player in the lottery was pretty good. Especially considering how many were angry we didn't pick Dunn or trade for Butler (which almost certainly would not have turned out well).

Ante was a good prospect who helped get us Kyrie. Now Kyrie in retrospect might not have been the best player to trade for. But that does not change that Ante Zizic did have value. The real story on the draft after pick #3 is we wanted maximum cap space to try to make a stab at Durant. Danny swung for the fences and struck out. But can't fault him for taking a swing.

Jaylen also has good trade value right now. Perhaps not as good as last summer. But still high enough that even if he does pan out as we want the pick may still turn out very well for us if he is moved.
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#7 » by Captain_Caveman » Mon Sep 9, 2019 4:24 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:By a remarkable coincidence, the only guy out of 11 who CHL views as a good pick is white.


And drafted a couple of spots over Giannis.
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#8 » by Red2 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:46 pm

Danny F’d those drafts no question . and he f’d Up big time last year by not trading Kyrie or Rozier when he knew or at least had a pretty good idea that Kyrie was leaving. I wanted Brandon Clark this year so even this past draft may turn out to suck .edwards looks like a sure thing but I’m not sold on Langford or even Williams .
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#9 » by FlatearthZorro » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:05 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:By a remarkable coincidence, the only guy out of 11 who CHL views as a good pick is white.


He's still the best player in that particular draft tho...
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#10 » by cloverleaf » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:07 pm

Agtreed, this thread is terrible. JB at age 22 has a career TS% of .551 in the NBA--and he's a bad pick because he's "inefficient"? Yikes!
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#11 » by FlatearthZorro » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:35 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:By a remarkable coincidence, the only guy out of 11 who CHL views as a good pick is white.


He's still the best player in that particular draft tho...
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#12 » by Fencer reregistered » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:58 pm

FlatearthZorro wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:By a remarkable coincidence, the only guy out of 11 who CHL views as a good pick is white.


He's still the best player in that particular draft tho...


Ante Zizic is better than Jaylen Brown???
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#13 » by JJHondo17 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:06 pm

Stick with irritating Toronto fans.
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#14 » by FlatearthZorro » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:16 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
FlatearthZorro wrote:
Fencer reregistered wrote:By a remarkable coincidence, the only guy out of 11 who CHL views as a good pick is white.


He's still the best player in that particular draft tho...


Ante Zizic is better than Jaylen Brown???


Nah, KO is the best player in his draft.
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#15 » by keevsnick1 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:57 pm

So I'm reading the list of guys for the 16 draft and all I can say is there are only two guys on each list I'd clearly rather have than Jaylen, and thats Simmons and Siakim. But Simmons was drafted before Brown and Siakim is 2.5 years older than Brown so tell me what Jaylen looks like in 2 years and I may change my mind. So ya, I'm good with the guy we took.
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#16 » by BostonCouchGM » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:36 am

Danny's 2016 draft is one of, if not the worst performance on draft night, all things considered, maybe in NBA draft history. Obviously Jaylen is average at best. A sometimes 3, seldom D. As a third year player he put up a whopping 13-4-1 with pretty bad defense. Since AB and IT were both a year away from leaving us with just Smart and Rozier at the G position, Danny should have taken a true G not a small SF who masquerades as a SG in Jaylen. Any of the G taken after him would have been better choices i.e. Dunn, Hield, Murray, LeVert, Dejounte and Brogdon. I can hear his fans scoffing at Dunn but that's because they've likely never watched him play and/or don't realize he shot better from 3 last season than Jaylen has in 2 out of 3 seasons. I'll take his 11-4-6 with 1.5 steals and actual good defense over 13-4-1 with .9 steals and suspect defense. Sure Dunn is older but he's also been on tanking teams surrounded by young undisciplined players. But the fact that as disappointing as Dunn has been, he's still a better natural basketball player than Jaylen.

Now the funny part. Danny took Yabusele and Zizic because they agreed to be stashed. But why did he feel the need to stash them? lol because he didn't want to cut bait with James Young and the turds he drafted in 2015 (Mickey and Hunter). And he ended up cutting them anyway. So pathetic. Two completely wasted picks. Could have had two of: LeVert, Siakam, Brogdon, Dejounte Murray, Zubac and Diallo. That's a massive lost opportunity. Then he traded two picks instead of taking Zubac, Brogdon or Diallo. I don't fault him for the scrubs he took later.

All I know is, he passed on better players for Jaylen, better players for Yabusele, better players for Zizic, and traded picks when we were desperate for size and there were bigs who are good enough to still be on our team had he took them. 2015, Rozier in particular, was a decent draft since it was arguably the worst draft class in history and he got Rozier in the middle of the round. Of course, Rozier only started 30 games but he put up 16-6-5 and led us to Game 7 of the ECF leading a young squad and now got paid to start for CHA where I'm positive he'll put up similar numbers. That's actually one of Danny's few decent picks in 15 years so it doesn't even belong being compared to the disastrous 2016 draft.

edit: Jaylen is two tiers away from Ingram as a basketball player. Ingram can actually initiate the offense and doesn't struggle on team defense or even to simply dribble the ball. I have no idea how anyone can compare a guy putting up 18-5-3 with 13-4-1. Every single G.M. would take Ingram over Jaylen.
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#17 » by Andrew McCeltic » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:31 am

It’s very early to judge the 2016 draft class.. Right now I would still pick Brown over Murray, Hield and Sabonis..

The only mildly compelling alternative would have been to trade down from 3 to 7 and picked up the 15.. I liked Zubac and Malik Beasley a lot in the mid first, and in theory we might’ve done like, 16 and 23 for 10 and taken Sabonis there.. Jaylen at 7, Sabonis at 10, Beasley at 15.. But that’s throwing so many balls in the air, it might’ve disrupted the top of the draft completely.

2015 was fine, but it’s frustrating that we could have had Myles Turner if we hadn’t finished out the season strong.
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#18 » by GoGreen » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:19 pm

I wanted Buddy Hield bad. But Ainge decided we needed another defender who couldn't shoot. His drafting is probably his biggest flaw as a gm.

With that said... the 2016 draft talent was not great in general. Jaylen is a decent enough player that taking him at 3 isn't a horrible pick, it just wouldn't have been mine.
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#19 » by Ascrilas » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:55 am

Yeah, we should've picked Jake Layman instead of Jaylen Brown. You **** got it, you absolute genius.
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Re: Did Aingey-Boy Stink Up the 2016 NBA Draft More or the 2015 NBA Draft? 

Post#20 » by Smitty731 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:06 am

It's good to see no matter how long I am away, some things never change. What a bad thread. And of course thinly veiled racism abounds!

Also, Kris Dunn over Jaylen Brown is a laughably bad take. And I love Kris Dunn and think he'll still be a solid rotation guy.

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