Lets talk about elephant in the room, our big man rotation!

[ballup]

The 5 is going to be situational and the minutes will flux. Kanter will ge the nod more often than not due to knowing how to be on an NBA court. Theis gets the next stab at it. Time Lord will get his chances, but I doubt he has got it yet for regular minutes. If Grant is as advertised, he may even play spot minutes at the 5. Unless Portier or Tacko erupt, I don't see a consistent opportunity for either.

As for the 4, the most common thinking is that Tatum will start there. Personally, I think Hayward should start at the 4. His help defense rotations are better than Tatum. Of course Tatum will play 5 or so minutes at the 4. It gets tricky from here. Semi will get minutes and Grant will get stabs here. Theis might get minutes here too, but I don't remember him being very successful here

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[KGboss]

Timelord or bust tbh

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[zoyathedestroya]

Pop kinda found the formula against France but didn't stick with it -- Brown or Smart at the 5 lol. I think Brad's crazy enough to have a lineup of Smart-Brown-Tatum-Hayward-G.Williams on the floor at times if all else fails.

Eight games in (super small sample still), Grant Williams has played center on 143 possessions. Celtics have been 99th percentile on defense but very poor on offense. 71st percentile net rating. Certainly not bad for a bench lineup and considering a rookie is your last line of defense. Theis, Rob, and Grant have held the fort on a top 5 defense, though our strength is really our wings and scheme. But without our bigs talking out there, we'd have more breakdowns that we'd had so far. Our switching and help rotation have been better than I expected early this season.

I really don't know how Kanter fits into what we're doing other than being a situational bench big, which he may not be happy about.

[cloverleaf]

Pop kinda found the formula against France but didn't stick with it -- Brown or Smart at the 5 lol. I think Brad's crazy enough to have a lineup of Smart-Brown-Tatum-Hayward-G.Williams on the floor at times if all else fails.

Eight games in (super small sample still), Grant Williams has played center on 143 possessions. Celtics have been 99th percentile on defense but very poor on offense. 71st percentile net rating. Certainly not bad for a bench lineup and considering a rookie is your last line of defense. Theis, Rob, and Grant have held the fort on a top 5 defense, though our strength is really our wings and scheme. But without our bigs talking out there, we'd have more breakdowns that we'd had so far. Our switching and help rotation have been better than I expected early this season.

I really don't know how Kanter fits into what we're doing other than being a situational bench big, which he may not be happy about.

I see Kanter taking Grant's minutes at the 5, as well as a few from Theis, but yes, situationally, which may not make him happy. They may need him to start against some beefy bigs and so far the bench really needs his offense. But Rob's minutes need to grow. He should get 25 a game, which leaves 23 for Enes and Daniel combined. I think Theis gets some backup minutes at the 4, too. Grant's an interesting player, but his shooting has really been ugly so far.

Also, with Hayward out, Tatum will likely play more 3, which will open more minutes for the bigs. The good news is that the bigs (especially Theis and Rob) are earning it!

[Fencer reregistered]

In some games this season the starters were playing long minutes (high 30s). I haven't checked whether those were during the period Jaylen was out, as one might think, but anyhow there are some minutes to be had. Ideally, Walker/Smart/Brown/Tatum wouldn't combine for over 140 minutes even in a close game. In Hayward's absence, that would leave ~100 for bigs plus other perimeter players. So there are minutes available for two bigs to play at once.

Question, however -- which pairs of bigs might actually work? Theis hasn't taken many shots, and hasn't shot particularly well when he has; pair him with a post-bound player, and he's pure 3-and-D without many 3s. Grant is struggling. Rob fits well into a good offense, but he's not yet what's making it good. Kanter is potentially a good scorer if you accept an extreme-ISO offensive strategy.

I guess Theis/Kanter is a reasonable pairing If the other guys have a good combination of passing and 3-pt shooting skills. (Walker, Smart, Edwards if he heats up, Tatum more than Brown.) Who else?

[sam_I_am]

Horford didn't want to play the five any more. That was the elephant in the room. I think the Celtics big men are going to surprise quite a few people. For starters, it's nice to have 24 fouls at the center position. I hope they use them and that some of them are hard fouls.

What we are seeing is that a team with 4 guys who can shoot 3, drive to rim, and hit midrange shots are better off with a big who likes to play in paint rather than a stretch 5 who wants to play like a PG or run PnRs. As much as I loved Horford on defensive end, he wasn’t helping as much as I thought offensively.

[cloverleaf]

In some games this season the starters were playing long minutes (high 30s). I haven't checked whether those were during the period Jaylen was out, as one might think, but anyhow there are some minutes to be had. Ideally, Walker/Smart/Brown/Tatum wouldn't combine for over 140 minutes even in a close game. In Hayward's absence, that would leave ~100 for bigs plus other perimeter players. So there are minutes available for two bigs to play at once.

Question, however -- which pairs of bigs might actually work? Theis hasn't taken many shots, and hasn't shot particularly well when he has; pair him with a post-bound player, and he's pure 3-and-D without many 3s. Grant is struggling. Rob fits well into a good offense, but he's not yet what's making it good. Kanter is potentially a good scorer if you accept an extreme-ISO offensive strategy.

I guess Theis/Kanter is a reasonable pairing If the other guys have a good combination of passing and 3-pt shooting skills. (Walker, Smart, Edwards if he heats up, Tatum more than Brown.) Who else?

I think Grant/Kanter is a decent pairing. And Theis is good with Rob. Sure, he's 2-9 from the 3 this year, but he's a career 34% from 3 and one more make in the early days here and he's right at that average. Wouldn't surprise me if Kanter were taking and making 3s pretty quickly, too.

[Fencer reregistered]

How about Williams & Williams for another pairing? Just have Grant keep shooting until he makes them. And he can stone basket-attackers solidly enough for Rob's help to have a good chance of being a smart play.

Both guys are mobile, so which perimeter guys they play with almost wouldn't matter, stylistically. And with both of them being good passers, maybe Brad could mix some give-and-go action in, whether modern DHOs or more old-school Walton/Sichting kinds of actions as the case may be.

[Fencer reregistered]

Wouldn't surprise me if Kanter were taking and making 3s pretty quickly, too.

That makes sense. We generally want him under the rim for offensive rebounding, but that doesn't mean he has to be there every moment of ever possession. And if he's playing with somebody who blocks out, like Grant, then he definitely has a chance to be effective even if he's crashing the boards from afar.

[31to6]

So far all we've learned is that Poirier isn't in the rotation, that Kanter doesn't really need to be (except for, I'd agree with most, vs. the behemoths), that GWilliams only looks marginally larger than Smart out there, and that RWilliams is going to the HOF.

Actually do you want to talk about an elephant in the room? How about that Enes Kanter's knee is fine but he hasn't been seen in public for two weeks due to let's say geopolitical instability.

[I just made that up but if he hasn't been on the bench prove me wrong:]

[ddb]

Between Theis/Kanter/Timelord/GWill I'd say the bigman by committee is in good shape. A big (no pun intended) reason for this has been the development of TimeLord. He looks like the Center of the future here. A freak athletically.

[OldCeltics]

Horford didn't want to play the five any more. That was the elephant in the room. I think the Celtics big men are going to surprise quite a few people. For starters, it's nice to have 24 fouls at the center position. I hope they use them and that some of them are hard fouls.

What we are seeing is that a team with 4 guys who can shoot 3, drive to rim, and hit midrange shots are better off with a big who likes to play in paint rather than a stretch 5 who wants to play like a PG or run PnRs. As much as I loved Horford on defensive end, he wasn’t helping as much as I thought offensively.

Bingo!

[Fencer reregistered]

Embiid had his lowest scoring night of the season so far vs. the Cs.
Giannis had his second-lowest.
Bledsoe had his lowest.
Ben Simmons, however, had his highest.

Who is this supposed lack of defensive centers supposedly insufficient to defend against?

[Slartibartfast]

Brad has done a great job with the bigs this year.

Any big with scoring ability he has swarmed and the team speed has kept them from getting burned.

Meanwhile the wings and guards are gang rebounding with great effect.

And Theis and Williams are thriving as the shot blockers with so much speed and discipline to get their backs.

[zoyathedestroya]

Embiid had his lowest scoring night of the season so far vs. the Cs.
Giannis had his second-lowest.
Bledsoe had his lowest.
Ben Simmons, however, had his highest.

Who is this supposed lack of defensive centers supposedly insufficient to defend against?

Trio of Lebron-AD-Dwight. Good thing Clippers are gonna take them down haha.

Embiid doesn't handle double teams well in the post.
I think we've figured out Giannis as long as team is disciplined.
We match up really well against the Raptors.

[Joshyjess]

the elephant in the room? Are we bringing Sullinger back?

[radcot]

I know what the rotation looks like on paper, but - I don't know - I'd like to wait until we actually lose a game before we make a move among the bigs. Wait 'til its broke before you fix it.

[Gant]

The Celtics' big men are playing very hard, and part of that is because they're playing very short minutes. They can go all out.

They're also taking few shots, which on a team with so many stingers is not a bad thing. It gives more shots to guys that are good at making them. Teams get hurt at a position most when players do negative things. For the most part, though they're limited, the Celtics' big men don't do negative things.

So far the large group of the large has held up better than expected.

[chakdaddy]

Horford only had the short term left, we had to move on sometime, not the end of the world to do it sooner than hoped.

[Homerclease]

the elephant in the room? Are we bringing Sullinger back?

Maybe Yabu