We have enough of a Tatum sample now

[jumblin]

He has plenty of talent, but he does not have the heart or competitiveness to be true franchise player. He's a stat guy, overly preoccupied with AS Game appearances and awards, and his pursuit of those personal achievements detract from his ability to play team ball.

He takes so many forced bad shots in his pursuit of that mythical 20ppg average, so many head-down drives to the basket through 3 defenders and endless complaining to the refs after every single missed shot. Too prideful for his own good. Too cool to show the heart and hustle that a franchise player must demonstrate. That was fine as a rookie, but in his third year now I've seen enough to say that Tatum is a stat guy, not a winning guy. He's the anti Marcus Smart.

As a young player with 1.5 years on a deal, averaging 20ppg I imagine he would fetch a very nice haul. He's redundant on this team with Brown and Hayward, and likely even more redundant moving forward with Langford playing more.

I wouldn't trade him as part of a shortsighted attempt to win it all this year, but rather because he's demonstrated that he is not the winning type of player you need and is always going to handicap the offense with his forced, selfish shot selection. Moving on now allows us to sacrifice very little from this years team, while also reloading for the future.

[Tatumfor2]

Disagree

[Ed Pinkney]

He has plenty of talent, but he does not have the heart or competitiveness to be true franchise player. He's a stat guy, overly preoccupied with AS Game appearances and awards, and his pursuit of those personal achievements detract from his ability to play team ball.

Care to provide any factual basis for any of these statements?

[KGboss]

What a silly take....

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Still too early to give up on him, IMO. With that being said, he needs to give up on Drew Hanlen. That guy sucks. Dan Gercart had a great tweet about it.

Read on Twitter

[FlatearthZorro]

Still too early to give up on him, IMO. With that being said, he needs to give up on Drew Hanlen. That guy sucks. Dan Gercart had a great tweet about it.

Read on Twitter

Hmm, imo, it's not about his coach, but the poor start to the season he had. He was shooting under .400 after like 5 games or so. Then he got up to .400, now he's shooting it at ~.420. So he's stabilized a lot considering the poor start. If he shoots .440 to .450 for the season, I'm more than happy with what he offers and I do believe that if he gets up to .430 till the All-star break he's worthy of an All-Star selection along with Brown, Kemba and Hayward( ).

Obviously, I still think that Tatum has a bit of maturing to do which should help his shot selection. Tbh, I don't agree with him shooting the ball like 16 times and making 2-3 shots. He needs to find easier looks and to his defense I thought he got fouled 2-3 times on some of the drives and instead of FTs it led to a missed shot. Also if Tatum didn't wanna win why would he bother playing defense. Kid's been stellar on defense for the most part this season and so has been Brown.

[Shak_Celts]

I respect your opinion but I don't share it. I credit you more for making a thread you had to know would get a lot of unfavorable comments towards you. We don't all have to agree to bring something worthwhile to the table! If we all always agreed this would be a BORING forum! I just hope people keep it civil!

[djFan71]

He's taking great shots. Being aggressive getting to the hoop, getting separation on his threes. Next step is to just start making them.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Still too early to give up on him, IMO. With that being said, he needs to give up on Drew Hanlen. That guy sucks. Dan Gercart had a great tweet about it.

Read on Twitter

Hmm, imo, it's not about his coach, but the poor start to the season he had. He was shooting under .400 after like 5 games or so. Then he got up to .400, now he's shooting it at ~.420. So he's stabilized a lot considering the poor start. If he shoots .440 to .450 for the season, I'm more than happy with what he offers and I do believe that if he gets up to .430 till the All-star break he's worthy of an All-Star selection along with Brown, Kemba and Hayward( ).

Obviously, I still think that Tatum has a bit of maturing to do which should help his shot selection. Tbh, I don't agree with him shooting the ball like 16 times and making 2-3 shots. He needs to find easier looks and to his defense I thought he got fouled 2-3 times on some of the drives and instead of FTs it led to a missed shot. Also if Tatum didn't wanna win why would he bother playing defense. Kid's been stellar on defense for the most part this season and so has been Brown.

I think the dip in efficiency can also be attributed to an increase in minutes and workload on defense.
The guy is covering a lot of ground when he's helping off his man or switching to a guard. Once he starts to fill out and matures physically, we'll see a rise in his efficiency, IMHO.

FWIW, Paul George finished his second All-Star season with a shooting percentage that Tatum is currently at right now. PG was 23. Tatum is still 21. As a matter of fact, their statlines are nearly identical.

PG in 2013/14 - 21.7 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 3.5 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.3 bpg, 42.4%/36.4 3PT/86% FT

Tatum this season - 21.3 ppg, 7 rpg, 2.8 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.8 bpg, 42.4% FG/36.6% 3PT, 84.2 FT%

I strongly disagree with the OP. Tatum still has plenty of time to improve.

[Ed Pinkney]

Yeah, let’s trade a 21 year old All Star level player in his third year who rebounds and defends and is a big reason the team has the third best record in the league because he is can be an inefficient shooter at times.

[grindtime22]

lol

[threrf23]

His shot selection and his preference for iso ball is nothing new. We knew it, or should have known it when we drafted him. Going all the way back to his early high school days, his scouting profiles screamed out Carmelo Anthony, or something to the effect.

And while isn't as dominant a scorer as Melo was at the same age - he's a good three point shooter and statistically he's also an elite defensive player. Seems a bit more humble as well, and he has shown flashes of some really nice passing ability. Those are all welcome contrasts from Melo. Once he figures out how to finish at the rim - we're good.

[ParticleMan]

i'm gonna avoid laying into the OP's bizarre take, but just point out that i'm very impressed with tatum's well-rounded game this year. he is defending at the best level of his career, and rebounding well playing alongside some poor rebounders. it's no coincidence that he's among the league leaders in a bunch of advanced stats. this is *precisely* the kind of guys you want to build around, guys like him and jaylen who impact the game in multiple ways.

his shooting isn't where we'd want but a lot of that so far is his poor finishing at the rim. this game was a step back but overall he's been improving steadily. he needs to learn from jaylen, who was equally poor but now is great because he's learned to slow down when he gets to the rim, and use his length and athleticism to finish with control. too many of tatum's finishes are with poor body control. he will learn, he's got all the tools. dude is only 19 after all

[steefP2]

You're wrong. First of all, he's a 21 year old and one of the main cogs on a top 5 team. He's figuring it out and he's doing a remarkable job of it. It might not be the instant super star leap that some of you were expecting but that's not on him honestly. I could write five paragraphs about it but i won't. I'll just provide some stats.

Tatum's first 10 games:
19,8 ppg 7,2 reb and 2,5 assists on 40/40/80 splits with an efg% of 46,5 and ts% of 49,8.
That was inefficient as hell, missing every layup but hitting his 3's.

Next 10 games: 22 ppg 6,8 reb and 3 assists on 41,5/30/84,3 splits with an efg% of 47,3 and ts% 52,5.
Still inefficient but somewhat better, mostly cause his finishing was a bit better and he got to the line more (5,1 attempts compared to 3,4 attempts first 10 games). Starting missing all his 3's in this stretch which dragged his efficiency down.

Games 21-30: 21,8 ppg 6,9 reb and 3,2 assists on 44,9/38/88,6 splits with an efg% of 52,5 and a ts% of 56,4. This is a lot better already. Ft attempts down a bit but hitting his 3's again while finishing is (slowly) getting better gets Tatum to decent efficiency in a high usage role. For context: league average ts% is 55,8 and efg% is 52,3.

He's improving guys. He's getting there. Yeah he's not as efficient as Brown right now but at least half of the reason for that is role honestly. Dude is 21 and in his 3rd season. Oh and he's also a amazing team defender that's also improving as a passer.

I have zero problems with Tatum's game, im just being patient cause the evidence shows us he's improving at a steady rate.

[jirrit]

You say we have had enough of a Tatum sample. We just got about 20% of his career, not halfway in his third season. It would be utterly dumb to give up on him now.

[TommyPointGawd]

Not taking the bait. Tatum has plenty to criticize. But the hot takes after a bad game ain't it. You cannot say he has no heart when he is clutch AF. When last week he goes scorched Earth on a team after he got pissed off. Are people waiting for bad games to post these threads. How many Jaylen, Hayward threads are already in the chamber? I say post them after his 39 point game if you really believe in what you say.

[exculpatory]

You're wrong. First of all, he's a 21 year old and one of the main cogs on a top 5 team. He's figuring it out and he's doing a remarkable job of it. It might not be the instant super star leap that some of you were expecting but that's not on him honestly. I could write five paragraphs about it but i won't. I'll just provide some stats.

Tatum's first 10 games:
19,8 ppg 7,2 reb and 2,5 assists on 40/40/80 splits with an efg% of 46,5 and ts% of 49,8.
That was inefficient as hell, missing every layup but hitting his 3's.

Next 10 games: 22 ppg 6,8 reb and 3 assists on 41,5/30/84,3 splits with an efg% of 47,3 and ts% 52,5.
Still inefficient but somewhat better, mostly cause his finishing was a bit better and he got to the line more (5,1 attempts compared to 3,4 attempts first 10 games). Starting missing all his 3's in this stretch which dragged his efficiency down.

Games 21-30: 21,8 ppg 6,9 reb and 3,2 assists on 44,9/38/88,6 splits with an efg% of 52,5 and a ts% of 56,4. This is a lot better already. Ft attempts down a bit but hitting his 3's again while finishing is (slowly) getting better gets Tatum to decent efficiency in a high usage role. For context: league average ts% is 55,8 and efg% is 52,3.

He's improving guys. He's getting there. Yeah he's not as efficient as Brown right now but at least half of the reason for that is role honestly. Dude is 21 and in his 3rd season. Oh and he's also a amazing team defender that's also improving as a passer.

I have zero problems with Tatum's game, im just being patient cause the evidence shows us he's improving at a steady rate.

Great post.

TY for taking the time.

He frequently frustrates the **** out of me & last night was an unmitigated cluster **** - but he has enormous potential & is improving. I will stay the course.

And we do NOT need another Tatum thread,

[5InOfLouisville]

I respect your opinion but I don't share it. I credit you more for making a thread you had to know would get a lot of unfavorable comments towards you. We don't all have to agree to bring something worthwhile to the table! If we all always agreed this would be a BORING forum! I just hope people keep it civil!

This. I dont agree either. That said, i understand the frustration. I dont really share it, as im high on tatum and love the way he affects games even when his shots arent falling

And for the most part, i dont hate his shot selection. Although to be fair, he does still need to learn his spots better. His angles are improving, but lets be honest, he should make layups.

I feel like he works hard to get to the rim and the layup is either rushed or almost an afterthought. But when he goes hard to the rim and either jumps strong off of two feet, goes for the dunk, or slows his pace to go off the glass with a little more touch, the results seem to be much more positive

You can see when he looks like hes slightly out of control or pressing vs when hes smart, strong and under control

Hes taking on a lot more offensive responsibility and hes figuring out. Theres superstar potential, but i think he might be a tad overrated on this board, and maybe by me.

But we are celtics fans. Thats what we do. Im high on him getting to that next level, but none of us can say for sure that he gets there.

I strongly disagree with the original post, but a universe exists where trading jt now while his value is high is the right move. And its not really unreasonable.

But yeah, devils advocate or whatever. Im still Jay Team for Life. Dont question my credentials

[KGtabake]

Tatum as a #2 option, will be perfect.

[Feed Your Head]

If he's not a winning player, why exactly are they SO very much better with him on the court? And why does he rank so high in the impact stats?

He's definitely struggling with his efficiency, everything else has been really freakin good. If anything he's been more of a winning player than a raw stats star. What a silly, reactionary thread.